Heroes (SPOILERS)

[Triforcer]

My view is that a wizard did it.  Anytime you see something you don't understand, a wizard did it.

[Dren]

Peter hasn't gotten to the point of using his powers instinctively yet, which is why Sylar keeps kicking his ass.

I think he keeps getting his ass kicked, because he just isn't very bright.  How long does it take for him to realize that the glass floating in the air in front of Sylar is going to be shot at him?  Why stand right in front of him with your back turned to him?  Is that what his instincts told him to do?  What a HERO! (I kept thinking he'd just stand directly behind Sylar....I don't know. Seemed obvious to me.)

And you guys already covered the part where they didn't kill Sylar while he was on the floor unconscious.  That was purely bad writing there, in my opinion.  Just plain stupid.  He took the time to pick up a dead body and leave without finishing off the guy that killed his father?  Then, he goes and enlists another bad guy to go kill Sylar.  WTF?

I wanted a nice little epic battle with both of them escaping for one reason or another.  And I got this?  Very dissappointing.

[stray]

It was very entertaining still, I thought. I might be going against popular opinion here, but I've never really cared about plot holes much. When characterizations and motivations seem off, when actors fall apart, when dramatic levels are poor, or when the pacing bothers me, that's when I feel something is ruined. I can't say that I care a lot about whether the world I'm watching or reading on the screen or page follows all the rules of logic or not.

Not that I don't care at all. I'm just saying that good drama covers a multitude of sins. If I worried about plot holes too much, then I couldn't enjoy pretty much anything (so fuck that).

[Mazakiel]

Well, to play Devil's advocate for Mohinder....remember, he'd just tried to kill Sylar, and failed miserably and promptly had the shit kicked out of him for however long.  As he later said, he was in over his head.  So, he could try to kill Sylar, and likely fail, and then Peter would still be there with a brain Sylar could gain all sorts of powers from.  Or, he could do what he did, which was a lucky break to even knock Sylar out, grab Peter's body, and run, which would at least prevent Sylar from getting Peter's powers. 

The more I've thought over it, the whole scene bothers me less.  Yeah, it was a bit lame for Peter to go down like he did, but when it's all said and done, this is the origin story for Peter and the others.  Shit won't always go right for them, and generally there are alot of stupid mistakes to be made.  For an example from the comics, look at Batman:  Year One.  The first time he goes out there to do some good, it's in a normal getup, and it doesn't go well at all.  He ends up getting a TV to the head and stabbed in the leg, as I recall.  Peter's just figured out how to control some of his powers, and it's made him cocky.  This will bring him down to earth a bit.  Lots of heroes have that humbling or otherwise unpleasant moment when they're first starting out that help form them into what they become. 

The upcoming episode is one I'm looking forward to alot, one of the reasons being we get to see what Peter, Hiro, and the others become once they've mastered their powers. 

[CmdrSlack]

Zomg. Awesome. Splendid, if you prefer.

[SnakeCharmer]

COMPLETELY FUCKING SPLENDID.

[Merusk]

Wugga wugga wugga, bitches.

Best episode so far, IMO.

[SnakeCharmer]

Yup, definately agree.  I didn't think last episode could be beat, but this one flat out hammers it into the ground.

Giggity giggity that was awesome. 

[sigil]

Yup, definately agree.  I didn't think last episode could be beat, but this one flat out hammers it into the ground.

Giggity giggity that was awesome. 

That bit  at the end of the family reunion was one of the top "Oh Shit!" moments In my television experience.


Totally fucking Splendid

[Daeven]

My view is that a wizard did it.  Anytime you see something you don't understand, a wizard did it.

So. Wait. The Villain is Harry Dresden attacking Gandalf with an Invisible Car while flying to Hogwarts?

I'm so confused.

[Samwise]

Peter and Hiro as dark brooding Matrix-esque badasses tearing up a building full of guards made the episode awesome all on their own.  Zowie.

I want it to be next Monday now, please.

[stray]

Fucking fuck that splendid shit.


It was awesome though.

[Velorath]

The bleakest part of that future was that 5 years later they still hadn't managed to kill Sylar and he was still outwitting them.

[Nevermore]

Dark, brooding future Hiro fucked up.  Everyone, including him, thought it was Sylar that blew up New York.  That's why he was so obsessed with saving Claire as the key to saving the future.  So now cheerful Hiro goes back and kills Sylar but that's not going to stop the explosion since it's Peter that blows up.  This show is amazing!  :-D

[HaemishM]

Yeah, that was truly the best yet. All you fuckers that bitched about not enough happening in episodes should now be able to see why that stuff is good for the show. It makes great episodes like the last two that much better when shit just starts colliding all together, and yet none of it feels rushed, and the characters make sense.

I think this one proved that Sylar's really a badass, he just hasn't had the opportunities yet to go major fuck my eyeballs badass. Sylar as Nathan-President was truly some good evil. I'm proud to say I knew exactly what was up when Nathan said "I know how things work." Peter and Hiro as badass Matrix building killers was splendid in all new ways.

[Merusk]

Dark, brooding future Hiro fucked up.  Everyone, including him, thought it was Sylar that blew up New York.  That's why he was so obsessed with saving Claire as the key to saving the future.  So now cheerful Hiro goes back and kills Sylar but that's not going to stop the explosion since it's Peter that blows up.  This show is amazing!  :-D

Worse yet, if Future Sylar wins that Pete-Sylar showdown or even just drives Peter off, then HE now has the ability to time travel and supress powers while ripping the memories out of people's heads.

 Woo for supermunchkin time-traveling uber-sylar!

[SnakeCharmer]

Peter and Hiro definately made the episode.  I really, really liked Peter's turn towards being a brooding badass, moreso than Hiro.  The move where he telekinetic threw the guard against the wall that charged him was freaking so simplistically awesome in it's approach. 

The Sylar/Nathan thing worked so well.  I could *see* Nathan getting powerhungry and caught up in everything to where I could see him saying "I'm the most special person in the world" lines to Claire.  The fact that it turned out to be Sylar was a twist, at least to me, though I can say I kinda did see it happening.  It could have gone either way, to me.

But awesome, awesome show.

I get goosebumps thinking about it NOW, much less watching it.

[CmdrSlack]

Worse yet, if Future Sylar wins that Pete-Sylar showdown or even just drives Peter off, then HE now has the ability to time travel and supress powers while ripping the memories out of people's heads.

But how does he get the Haitian's powers or Hiro's powers?  Future Hiro gets shot and all, and the Haitian is all deadified or something in the other room, but do we know if he can then snag powers once the people have been dead a while?  Sure if he kills Peter, then maybe he gets all the powers that Peter has absorbed, but my sense would be that he'd only get the absorbing power.

[stray]

All you fuckers that bitched about not enough happening in episodes should now be able to see why that stuff is good for the show.

Some of them just weren't that well done (and I wasn't just pointing out action, but character related stuff too). Saying that I shouldn't have bitched because some future unseen episodes would be better is no kind of excuse. A lot of shows can manage to make early set up stuff interesting still (or even better than the finale parts, for that matter). You can have both.

[Samwise]

Sure if he kills Peter, then maybe he gets all the powers that Peter has absorbed, but my sense would be that he'd only get the absorbing power.

Sylar seems to think that he'd get all of the absorbed powers (he says "can't wait to try that one" when Peter turns invisible during their showdown in the previous ep).  If Peter's powers have become imprinted on his brain somehow I can see that working.

Either way, I don't think I'd want to take the chance if I were Peter.   

[CmdrSlack]

All you fuckers that bitched about not enough happening in episodes should now be able to see why that stuff is good for the show.

Some of them just weren't that well done (and I wasn't just pointing out action, but character related stuff too). Saying that I shouldn't have bitched because some future unseen episodes would be better is no kind of excuse. A lot of shows can manage to make early set up stuff interesting still (or even better than the finale parts, for that matter). You can have both.

This did too.  Your opinion was just wrong.   :-D

[stray]

That's a different point then, and not one worth arguing about. 

[CmdrSlack]

That's a different point then, and not one worth arguing about. 

Isn't it?   :-D

[tazelbain]

 Woo for supermunchkin time-traveling uber-sylar!

This is unfornately is not a possible in Heros.  The timeline is set by fate.  Sylar cannot defy fate anymore than Hiro could save Rosetta Stone Girl. Which is why he was upset after seeing the future with Isac's powers.  He was shown his fate to get pwned by Hiro. 

Which begs the question, how can they defy fate and save New York? Although I guess you can say that Isac's drawings are from the "aberrent" timeline and don't represent the "true" timeline.

I don't like it when stories use throw-away timelines, but they really did good job with it.

[Nevermore]

Time was changed once when Claire was saved, though.

[Samwise]

Or was it?  Everyone *thought* that Claire was dead the whole time in Hiro's future, and when he got back from his time travelling, nothing had changed as far as he could tell, despite having saved her life.

It does beg the question of how Sylar survived being stabbed, though, since both Claire and Sylar were alive in the future.  Maybe Claire had nothing to do with his survival after all.

[CmdrSlack]

Or was it?  Everyone *thought* that Claire was dead the whole time in Hiro's future, and when he got back from his time travelling, nothing had changed as far as he could tell, despite having saved her life.

It does beg the question of how Sylar survived being stabbed, though, since both Claire and Sylar were alive in the future.  Maybe Claire had nothing to do with his survival after all.

See this is why time travel mucks things up.  I thought that the reason why nothing had changed in the future even though Peter saved Claire was that Hiro is still a timid, yet improving, geek when he pulls Ando and himself forward five years.  Since Hiro had yet to get badass enough to consider doing something like stabbing Sylar, that never happened or something silly.  The galvanizing event that made him into brooding badass Hiro (according to last night's episode) was Ando's death when the bomb destroys NY.  It seems that's going to happen anyway since it's Peter who goes FWOOM and not Sylar.  So maybe he had the chance to stab Sylar, missed it, someone goes FWOOM, Ando dies, Hiro gets badass. 

Or maybe Hiro doesn't see himself stabbing Sylar in the comic until he finds it in the future.  I can't recall whether that specific comic was something Hiro read in the past timeline.  Maybe that's why he never actually does it. 

Stupid time travel. 

[SnakeCharmer]

Could the person in the comic NOT be Sylar, and instead it's Peter?  Both are dark headed, both generally need a shave.  Hiro stabs Peter.  Peter regens.  Goes nuclear later.

Alternatively, if they know in the future that Peter goes nuclear, why not just off Peter here and now and avoid the entire thing altogether?  Or just get Peter out of dodge to Paris or where ever.

Granted it doesn't make for good TV...

So maybe it's not Peter that goes nuclear.  It IS Sylar.

[Dren]

You know the guy that nearly goes nuclear everytime somebody looks at him funny, might be the one that... you know... goes nuclear.

Just saying.

[HaemishM]

Claire WAS saved in the future timeline, Hiro just didn't know it, since Peter and Nathan were all trying to keep her being alive a secret. Sylar wasn't the bomb according to Peter. The show has gone to great pains to show that you can't change the past. I'm thinking we already know the ending to this season, we just haven't seen it all yet, unless they are trying to say you CAN change your future (Present-day Hiro can change the bomb event) but you can't change your past (Present-day Hiro couldn't save the waitress and Future Hiro couldn't stop the event himself).

[SnakeCharmer]

If Claire was saved, how did Sylar live thru the Hiro stabbing?

[HaemishM]

If Claire was saved, how did Sylar live thru the Hiro stabbing?

If Claire WASN'T saved, how was she living in Midland, Texas?

[SnakeCharmer]

I'm going to guess that if there is a speck of Claire left, she completely regens?

Fuck if I know.

Big plot hole, IMHO.  Seems like something like that would get sniffed out because it's so damn obvious.

[CmdrSlack]

I'm going to guess that if there is a speck of Claire left, she completely regens?

Fuck if I know.

Big plot hole, IMHO.  Seems like something like that would get sniffed out because it's so damn obvious.

Right, but if the brain is the one part that can't automagically instaheal (like with the glass shard removal thing from last week), and Sylar needs to access ye olde brainpanne to take a power, wouldn't a pulled-out and possibly mangled brain kind of vitiate any healing factor?

[Mazakiel]

As I see it: 

Timeline 1:  Sylar gobbles Claire's brain, gets to New York, gobbles Sprague's brain.  Hiro, somehow, knows who Sylar is, and stabs him.  Sylar regens, but the trauma/anger/whatever from the wound causes him to lose control and he nukes the city.  We know Sylar's not stable, so a loss of control would not be a surprise.  Sylar lives on, in secret.  If he takes over Nathan's identity, who knows, but I expect so.  Future Hiro didn't react strangely to the future being how it was when he got back.  It was the same.  Anyway, he builds his timeline, gathering every piece of info he can.  He has snapshots of news articles, Isaac paintings, everything.  Even, from what I remember glimpsing, a painting we won't see in it's painting form until next week's episode.  He works on this timeline until he determines what went wrong and where.  He stabbed Sylar.  Sylar healed.  Sylar blew up.  He tracks that power to Claire Bennet, and determines her to be the key.  Hiro decides that, if Sylar did not have her power, he would have been stopped in time.  (In the comic posted to coincide with .07, Future Hiro reminsices on events as he builds his timeline.  We see nerdy Hiro with a bloody sword, as the man in front of him explodes.  We also see a picture of Claire attached to the timeline, while in the background we see the scene of a Claire laying dead and brainless.)  So, he sets about to change the past, and to save Claire.  So, he gives a message for his past self to Peter Petrelli in the past.  He does this to avoid a rift/paradox.  This changes the past in ways Hiro did not anticipate though. 

Timeline 2:  This is the timeline he creates.  Peter meets Claire, interferes with Sylar, and saves Claire.  Sylar does not gain her regeneration power.  In the process, he gets exposed to several powers at once, causing him to go into a coma, as well as triggering his prophetic dreams power he got from...someone we aren't sure of yet.  Peter sees himself blow up.  Due to this, it's likely he starts mastering his powers sooner than he did in the first timeline, or at least in a different manner.  When Claude's training him, he uses regen and telekinesis first, powers he only had because he was in Odessa to save Claire, all thanks to Future Hiro.  When Peter next encounters Sylar, the regeneration takes Sylar by surprise, giving Peter the chance to act.  How they first meeting originally happened, we'll likely never know, but chances are it involved Peter manifesting telekinesis by instinct in a desire to get Sylar away from him, spooking Sylar off.  Anyway, Sylar runs off, later chows down on Isaac's brain, but it happens differently this time than it did when Hiro jumped to witness it.  Small details are changed.  Eventually, though, Peter comes across Sprague, and is unable to get out of New York.  Somehow, he loses control of the power and goes nuclear.  Even Sprague has troubles controlling the power, so it's not a stretch to see Peter have issues when he first gets it and something goes wrong.  Then we see the episode of the future.  Future Hiro changed the past, but not in a way that ultimately matters as far as he's concerned.  If he had, it technically would have invoked a paradox, as he would then have no reason to warn himself.  He also, though, has no recollection of the 'past' as he has changed it in his current time.  He's become an anomaly in time, basically.  But....Past Hiro has seen the future and has been given clues to to change it, which means a 3rd timeline can be created.  Which is what the next few episodes will entail. 

Basically, time travel's a pain in the ass.