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Author Topic: "Cathedral Of Pain" goes Live  (Read 13701 times)
geldonyetich
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on: October 09, 2006, 11:41:47 AM

Nearly one year after it's release, one of City of Villains core features goes live at last.

You might have recalled talk of "items of power" that supergroups can capture and hold in their bases, which are prone to raiding by rivals.  Bases, being constructed from the ground up by players, also have a number of automated defense systems you can place to dissaude would-be raiders.  Previously, raiding was more of an invitation only affair, but with the inclusion of items of power that will change.

Well, the addition of the Cathedral of Pain provides a means to generate items of power, which were previously nonexistant.  The Cathedral is apparently active one week out of the month, leaving other players supergroup bases as their only source in between.

CoH/CoV PvP balance being somewhat permanently imbalanced due to flexibility of character builds, PvP has never been a real pleasant experience.  I expect much gnashing of teeth.

I might be missing details here and there, so feel free to fill them in.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2006, 11:43:55 AM by geldonyetich »

Glazius
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Reply #1 on: October 09, 2006, 06:09:53 PM

Item of Power raiding is, still, not in the game. You just go PVE and get a little boost for your SG until the next time the trial goes active, at which point Rularuu goes "MINE" and all the IoPs vanish.

--GF
geldonyetich
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Reply #2 on: October 09, 2006, 10:24:10 PM

 shocked

Tiny steps, I guess.

Llava
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Reply #3 on: October 10, 2006, 07:53:45 AM

Going to see if my SG will give this a shot.  I tried it solo, that's pretty much impossible.

Base editing still needs a lot of work.  Placing new rooms is a complete pain in the ass,  I've got a crapload of extra square that, for some reason, won't accept any more rooms because the editor thinks they're not accessible, which is untrue.  Trying to rearrange our base so we could do  this was a major pain in the ass.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
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Reply #4 on: October 10, 2006, 09:57:25 PM

Early reports indicates that the CoP trial takes about 15 minutes for a competent team to finish, gives a huge xp bonus at the end (no xp in the CoP to stop powerleveling due to multiple respawning enemies) and most SGs are only able to get get one Item of Power that can't be sold / destroyed (again, to stop powerleveling).

Groups that end up with weak IoPs are not happy. Especially since the majority of SGs / VGs aren't able to afford the infrastructure to get any more than one IoP.

Theoretically I8 is going to usher in some base changes - most players are hopeful this means base upkeep costs are going to come way, way down and allow more SGs / VGs to get the bigger bases.

Llava
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Reply #5 on: October 11, 2006, 06:23:39 AM

Well, Positron posted this a while back:

Quote from: Positron
In regards to Rent: This is one of the items we are looking at closely this week. The "glass ceiling" was a design decision to prompt SGs into recruiting more members to get past it. It's fairly obvious (and has been for months) that you all universally hate the idea.

So I'd say it's a fairly safe bet that will change, though later on he posted this in the same thread:

Quote from: Positron
We've got a rent fix, but it won't be in the initial Issue 8 release. A lot of bug fixing popped up and took away the time I wanted to get the rent fix in.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
Glazius
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Reply #6 on: October 11, 2006, 06:38:27 AM

Going to see if my SG will give this a shot.  I tried it solo, that's pretty much impossible.

Base editing still needs a lot of work.  Placing new rooms is a complete pain in the ass,  I've got a crapload of extra square that, for some reason, won't accept any more rooms because the editor thinks they're not accessible, which is untrue.  Trying to rearrange our base so we could do  this was a major pain in the ass.
Could you post or PM me some screenshots of what you're trying to do? (base editor screenshots still show everything) I'm my supergroup's designated base monkey so I can probably work out what's going wrong.

--GF
geldonyetich
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Reply #7 on: October 11, 2006, 11:27:15 AM

My supergroup wasn't so competant.  Thus, my first experience with the CoP was a bunch of debt.   Also, it seems Meleers without flight are not welcome there.

Llava
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Reply #8 on: October 11, 2006, 01:45:08 PM

I'm going to see if I can get some AE -fly for us to handle that.  If none of my teammates have it, I've got a character that can cover that, though I was hoping to go as my Brute to soak up some of the damage for them.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
Nevermore
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Reply #9 on: October 11, 2006, 02:36:28 PM

Quote from: Cricket
The Cathedral of Pain has been brought offline due to technical reasons. Earned Items of Powers will stay in place.

The trial will return in the future. I'll provide more information on that once I can.

Over and out.
eldaec
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Reply #10 on: October 11, 2006, 05:20:35 PM

Quote from: Cricket
The Cathedral of Pain has been brought offline due to technical reasons. Earned Items of Powers will stay in place.

No.

Either...

1) The Cathedral of Pain has been brought offline because of technical issues.
or, if you really must...
2) The Cathedral of Pain's removal was due to technical issues.

'Due to' does not mean the same as 'because of'.

Frankly the world would be a better place if using "Due to" prepositionally was punishable by death; but if we can't go that far, then people should at least remember 'due to' is adjectival not adverbial.
 
In sentence 1 "been brought offline" is a verb modified by "because of" (adverbial)
In sentence 2 "Cathedral of Pain's removal" is a noun, so can grudgingly be modified by a "due to" (adjectival).



/rant off.

I appreciate that it's a quote, and you almost certainly don't care; but if you had to sit at Stansted airport every second Monday listening to a Ryanair tannoy repeat that same mistake every 4 minutes it would grate on you too.


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Signe
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Reply #11 on: October 11, 2006, 06:58:31 PM

Eldaec is making my hair hurt.   huh

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Reply #12 on: October 12, 2006, 06:55:00 AM

Grammar snakes are always crushed by the timberlands of common usage :P
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Reply #13 on: October 12, 2006, 07:09:59 AM

Cryptic drops the experience needed for each level dramatically due to subscriber numbers being shit?

/obvious
/wow that sentence has a completely different problem.
Sky
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Reply #14 on: October 12, 2006, 07:34:35 AM

Cryptic drops the experience needed for each level dramatically due to subscriber numbers being shit?
Huh?
eldaec
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Reply #15 on: October 12, 2006, 08:18:19 AM

Quote
Cryptic drops the experience needed for each level dramatically due to subscriber numbers being shit?

/obvious
/wow that sentence has a completely different problem.

It also has the same problem. (unless you meant pre-existing high experience requirements for each level were caused by subscriber numbers being shit (in which case you have the word 'dramatically' in the wrong place)).

Is the completely different problem your confusion of tenses?

 :-D

Quote
Cryptic's decision to reduce experience requirements was due to shit subscriber numbers.

...would be acceptable.


Quote
Grammar snakes are always crushed by the timberlands of common usage

At least they have the smug satisfaction of a superior smirk while it happens.
 smiley
« Last Edit: October 12, 2006, 08:31:53 AM by eldaec »

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Reply #16 on: October 12, 2006, 09:18:37 AM

Of course, any thread about CoH/V isn't complete until someone mentions the grind. Well done on that, along with the attitude that CoH/V is DOOOOOOOMed.

Cryptic drops the experience needed for each level dramatically due to subscriber numbers being shit?

/obvious
/wow that sentence has a completely different problem.

geldonyetich
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Reply #17 on: October 12, 2006, 09:36:42 AM

Quote
Quote
Cryptic's decision to reduce experience requirements was due to shit subscriber numbers.

...would be acceptable.
You mean it would be acceptable if "shit" were an adjective.

<superior smirk whilst being crushed>

But yes, please reduce the grind, Cryptic.

Actually, I've been making some pretty good progress lately.  The secret is in grouping.  When I'm in a group I can earn several post-20 levels a day (or about one in an evening). At this rate, assuming it doesn't slow down further at later levels, I could "max out" a character in less than a month.  However, it's a bit less satisfying since I rarely get to run through contact-granted CoH storylines if I'm stapled to other group members throughout the endeavor.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2006, 09:58:56 AM by geldonyetich »

Sky
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Reply #18 on: October 12, 2006, 09:54:14 AM

There was an ingame bitch session about 'grind-complainers'. See, exp debt and grind are /good/ so you can collect all the badges.

I just see badges as something that should come naturally (or not) through playing the game. I've got a Mongoose badge because I was stomping a lot of snakes, not because I said 'lfg Mongoose badge group!'. I know I'm in the vast minority given all the pokemon-minded folks in mmo, even in BF2. Resurrecting a word: Badgetards.
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Reply #19 on: October 12, 2006, 09:55:37 AM

I too never understood the whole "Debt is Good" argument...so these people Want to grind More? err..

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geldonyetich
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Reply #20 on: October 12, 2006, 10:06:03 AM

Resurrecting a word: Badgetards.
They prefer the term badge whore.

For the most part, badges really are optional - little more than bragging rights.  However, there are some "accolades" you can earn that give you some minor powers to play with, such as the Atlas Medallion that grants an extra 5% to your endurance bar.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2006, 11:17:25 AM by geldonyetich »

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Reply #21 on: October 12, 2006, 08:38:50 PM

I too never understood the whole "Debt is Good" argument...so these people Want to grind More? err..

I think it's "debt is good" compared to the alternative loss of xp / corpse run that other games serve up.

Sky
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Reply #22 on: October 13, 2006, 07:13:17 AM

I like diarrhea because it's not as chunky as normal shit.
Glazius
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Reply #23 on: October 13, 2006, 08:16:49 AM

Actually, I've been making some pretty good progress lately.  The secret is in grouping.  When I'm in a group I can earn several post-20 levels a day (or about one in an evening). At this rate, assuming it doesn't slow down further at later levels, I could "max out" a character in less than a month.  However, it's a bit less satisfying since I rarely get to run through contact-granted CoH storylines if I'm stapled to other group members throughout the endeavor.
You mean when you're leading or when you're following? I do find that doing just enough stuff solo to get a contact's bar to the first "phone" milestone speeds up group storyrunning _enormously_.

--GF
eldaec
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Reply #24 on: October 13, 2006, 08:50:45 AM

Quote
Actually, I've been making some pretty good progress lately.  The secret is in grouping.

Absolutely.

It's always about grouping and it's always about pulling a good group together.

This is not a mmog for soloers.

If you want to see just how much this is true, open your 'find team members' panel, and do a search with everything set to 'any' (you'll probably have to pick a level range and 1 or 2 ATs so the system doesn't truncate the results). The greyed out people are in groups, the light blue people are solo. There won't be very many light blue people.

Plus, variety in this game comes from exactly two things.

1) Group makeup and different synergies between different group combinations.
2) Which NPC organisation you are beating on.

1) is much more important than 2). So if you want counteract the grind; start grouping.

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Sky
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Reply #25 on: October 13, 2006, 09:43:52 AM

Unless you can't really group. That's why I'm enjoying the mastermind, it lets me enjoy the game a bit more due to my solo status. I don't mind grouping, I jsut don't have time for it.

 Beating a Dead Horse
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Reply #26 on: October 13, 2006, 01:05:51 PM

My Brute and Stalker gain more experience solo than in groups, if I'm just trying for that.

Turn up difficulty, open up a newspaper, grab a steal or defeat mission, go all the way to the end, steal or defeat, exit, on to the next.  It's very fast.  It also gets boring after a bit.

I group to change things up.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
geldonyetich
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Reply #27 on: October 14, 2006, 11:16:05 AM

I think I figured out a routine for my Controller (which is somewhat Group-oriented by nature).

1) Log in.
2) /Search appropriate level range, send /tells to anybody in gray to see if they've "got room" for me.
3) If not, do some solo missions.  Repeat #2 later.

Granted, a more productive methodology would be to start my own groups.

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Reply #28 on: October 14, 2006, 09:22:30 PM

But that's a bitch to do.

I hate forming groups.  I never lead anything in MMOGs if I can help it.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
Glazius
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Reply #29 on: October 14, 2006, 09:37:13 PM

Quote
Actually, I've been making some pretty good progress lately.  The secret is in grouping.

Absolutely.

It's always about grouping and it's always about pulling a good group together.

This is not a mmog for soloers.

If you want to see just how much this is true, open your 'find team members' panel, and do a search with everything set to 'any' (you'll probably have to pick a level range and 1 or 2 ATs so the system doesn't truncate the results). The greyed out people are in groups, the light blue people are solo. There won't be very many light blue people.
And let me tell you, that makes it really hard to get a group together without using heavy sidekicking.

Yes, I invite random people 5-10 levels below and pair them up as appropriate, and most of my groups end up being 1/3 to 1/2 sidekicks. Finished the tail end of Angus McQueen's Rikti arc tonight with a team that was half-and-half, but it wasn't immediately obvious in the way we plowed through just about everybody. Including a fucktillion Rikti monkeys. so many little monkeys (In a bizarre back on topic swerve, one of the people I picked up was in like the top SG on the server and they somehow manged to get _8_ items of power out of the trial. Le wow.)

Still, this is a sentiment I agree with - there's an incentive in CoX to team up and that incentive is "it's a more varied experience than solo play". On the whole there are worse.

--GF
eldaec
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Reply #30 on: October 15, 2006, 08:17:05 AM

But that's a bitch to do.

I hate forming groups.  I never lead anything in MMOGs if I can help it.

I believe Geldon was talking about using the greyed out people to join someone elses group, rather than using the blue people to form your own.

Personally I form groups in CoV, but find groups to join in CoH. I find building groups easier in CoV, because the the ideal group is one brute plus any number of corruptors (although the brute is optional in groups of 5 and above), and corruptors always want to group, so I just ask everyone who is flagged lfg, then start pming any corruptors online that are out of group but don't have the flag on, that usally lands me 4 to 7 people. Plus in a corruptor based group, people don't bitch at each other for not healing, and corruptor tactics tend to involve simple concepts suitable for PUGs, like 'just stand way the fuck back and fire on my target at maximum range' (plus many corruptor players are priest/cleric types, and therefore they are both better looking and actually able to follow the simple instructions - in fact, you could say the single best thing about the CoV experience, is 'That guy who played cleric for you through 60 levels of everquest/daoc/wow? Well now he can do your nuking too, So you no longer need to put up with the legion of mispelt Gandalfs fucking up every encounter by blowing the wrong shit up before anyone is ready'.).

On the other hand, in CoH you get much more bitching about whether we have enough defenders, and whether the scrapper is capable of tanking, plus you take more risks that blasters and controllers will add next to nothing to the group (not because the ATs are necessarily bad, but because they are more dependant on synergies with other players).

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Llava
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Reply #31 on: October 15, 2006, 09:24:07 AM

But that's a bitch to do.

I hate forming groups.  I never lead anything in MMOGs if I can help it.

I believe Geldon was talking about using the greyed out people to join someone elses group, rather than using the blue people to form your own.


Quote from: geldonyetich
Granted, a more productive methodology would be to start my own groups.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
Sky
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Reply #32 on: October 16, 2006, 07:53:27 AM

I invite random people
Have you ever heard "Do I have my lfg tag on, mofo?" That was me ;)

I get at least 3 or 5 random invites every night I play, it's annoying. If I wanted to group, I'd tag myself as such.
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Reply #33 on: October 16, 2006, 08:14:17 AM

Figured out what I was doing wrong with adding rooms.

It was telling me some rooms may not be reachable from the entrance when that wasn't the case because there were items placed in front of the doorways it wanted to create.  Though those items didn't obstruct passage, it still didn't want to create the doorways necessary to make the rooms.

So I moved some stuff around and now I'm okay.

Would be nice if the message said "There are items in the way that prevent this room from being placed." so I would've known that was the problem in the first place.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
geldonyetich
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Reply #34 on: October 16, 2006, 10:04:00 AM

I get at least 3 or 5 random invites every night I play, it's annoying. If I wanted to group, I'd tag myself as such.
There's actually a setting to set yourself to automatically refuse invites.  It's on the LFG tab section, bottom entry.  Granted, having your team icon turn solid blood red might seem as though the developers are secretly admonishing you.

Quote from: llava
Would be nice if the message said "There are items in the way that prevent this room from being placed." so I would've known that was the problem in the first place.
This is true.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2006, 10:07:54 AM by geldonyetich »

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