NWN2: Thoughts?

[stray]

Very true. Most people make amazingly shitty bards. The best part about finding/using a powerful bard build is that it is very unexpected.

I'm not talking about builds though. I'm talking about this shitty game. 

[sinij]

Anyone can post minimal specs? I'm curious if old PC can take it so I can play it with my S.O.

[Kail]

Anyone can post minimal specs? I'm curious if old PC can take it so I can play it with my S.O.

2.4 ghz processor (recommended 3.0)
512 megs ram (recommended 1024)
Radeon 9800/GeForce 6600

I think, anyway.
Too steep for me. Ah, well.

[Nija]

I'm not talking about builds though. I'm talking about this shitty game. 

Try this for starters.

Human / Bard
leave dex at 8, str/con/cha at 16, 10 int.

First time you level up, put 1 in fighter. Keep leveling fight until you're bard (1) fighter (4) - rest in bard.

Feats you'll want in the fighter levels are power attack, cleave, weapon spec greatsword, weapon focus greatsword, and i took focus short sword as well.

Keep your bard song up at all times, wear heavy armor and right click it / unequip before you cast spells to buff yourself. As you get bonus stats, dump them in strength and another point or two in cha if you really need it.

[stray]

Unequipping armor. No offense, but that sounds lame. Is there any other way to have fun with this class?

My main problem is that it doesn't seem to be built for how encounters work in a video game setting. As if it's only suitable for a PnP setting, and not how AI, aggro, gamemaps play out (I wish I could articulate this better).

If the only way to workaround that is some kind of "unequipping armor" scenario, then it doesn't sound good.

[edit] Lots of edits. Sorry.

[Velorath]

My main problem is that it doesn't seem to be built for how encounters work in a video game setting. As if it's only suitable for a PnP setting, and not how AI, aggro, gamemaps play out (I wish I could articulate this better).

I'm not sure exactly what you were expecting from a game whose selling point is that it's a fairly faithful translation of D&D rules.

[stray]

Just a game.

Just a game built for the machine I run it on is all I ask. 

[Nija]

Unequipping armor. No offense, but that sounds lame. Is there any other way to have fun with this class?

You don't have to do it that often, but if you're trying to cast spells while rolling around in plate, as a flute playing fairy, it ain't going to work.

If you want to RP it, say that you can't concentrate with the scent of oil in your nostrils so you gotta strip down beforehand.

Whatever.

[sinij]

You could RP exhibitionist, showing your ‘crown jewels’ gets you feeling better (buffed).

[Furiously]

Direct 2 Drive customer support is very good.

I was a bit ticked about their whole patch only through us, (When they had said that wasn't the case originally/they said it was through their patching system/then later they waffled and made it Atari's issue).

I had submitted a ticket asking for a refund just to see what they would respond with. And they just gave me my money back. Of course, now I can't play but I'm not sure that is a bad thing.

This is probably a game to pick up in 6 months when there is a lot more content out there.

[Riggswolfe]

Anyone can post minimal specs? I'm curious if old PC can take it so I can play it with my S.O.

From your computer go to this website:

www.srtest.com

It tests your system specs. It actually tests them for a whole slew of games.

[Xilren's Twin]

Thus far, I'm liking it.  With that camera adjustment I've been happily hacking through the included campaign.  Makes a HUGE difference in playability.  Can't believe that made it through player beta testing.

The changes to party support means you can directly take control of your othe party member any time you like, and have full control over their inventory and leveling process, so the whole thing feels closer to a BG2 party then NWN1.  Much better interaction from them too.

Starting you basically at lvl 3 helps jump the "low level d&d sucks" part, and decent loot helps too.  I'm  not sure if the loot is static or random.  (Without being too spoilerish, did everyone get that flaming mace from the lizardman chieftan in the side swamp caves?) But thus far i've gotten several bard instruments too, which seems odd somehow.

The crafting part seems well done, you can make useful gear assuming you can find a receipe and the right indgredients, and your skill is ranked high enough.  Example, to craft a suit of plate mail, you have to get/buy a mold for it, and need 3 bars of metal.  Base items have a min skill level required to make, plus the quality of the materials may increase the ranks needed.  The metal used determines the end product (iron, steel, mithril, adamantine, etc etc) so i may need a skill of 8 to do platemail, and if i make it from mithiril that may add another 4 to the skill ranks needed.  You can also take some loot items like animal parts, and use your alchemy ranks to turn them into crafting ingredients (spider poison gland renders a lesser water essence).

It seems a harder campaign in the encounters too, at least so far.  Taking a party of 2-3 level 4s against ~12 bandits, most of whom are weilding bows plus a mage, seems a bit much.  Doable, but good combat management needed.

Xirlen

[Riggswolfe]

Starting you basically at lvl 3 helps jump the "low level d&d sucks" part, and decent loot helps too.  I'm  not sure if the loot is static or random.  (Without being too spoilerish, did everyone get that flaming mace from the lizardman chieftan in the side swamp caves?) But thus far i've gotten several bard instruments too, which seems odd somehow.

I skipped that fight with diplomacy so I don't know. :)

[Furiously]

I hate zombies. Damn disease with no cleric.

Hmmm - maybe I will have to go buy the box.

[Signe]

I don't seem to have any diplomacy.  I'm a devil monk.  Anyway, I did the tutorial fair thingy and haven't played since.  FFXII is still too much fun and the rest of the time I nap.

[Xilren's Twin]

I hate zombies. Damn disease with no cleric.

Hmmm - maybe I will have to go buy the box.

Just go rest somewhere, disease and poison are only an issue until you get somewhere safe.

Oh yeah, I'm finding myself using the F for quickspell selection rather than putting spells on my 1-+ keys.  Wasn't expecting to like that.

[geldonyetich]

My first impressions are that it's a pretty solid take on NWN being taken fully 3D.  If there's any doubt it's NWN+, they've taken the same character voice packs and music sets from the first game.  Still, it's much more immersive feeling than the first game since it has a lower set perspective and much better skydome support.  The graphics can look a bit washed out at times, but it plays well enough.  Once you get used to the PITA camera, that is.

No wonder it sold out and I had to buy it from Direct2Drive: good rep development house + hype + "good enough" final product = win.  Just ask Blizzard.

Diplomacy is pretty big in the included campaign.  Every other conversation seems to have an option to diplomatically wheedle out some extra cash from unsuspecting NPCs.

I've reached a graveyard and indeed the disease is a bother.  Just one more level and my monk gets disease immunity. ;)

Warlocks do look interesting.  Essentially dark nukers with an extra-slim spell selection but unlimited casts.   Not much point for them in the campaign where you can rest in 5 seconds after every fight, although some areas are set anti-rest.

[Signe]

I'm using the driver view and I just checked and that little camera hack is sooper dooper wonderful.  Thanks!  I might make a new character.  Devil monk w/potential shadow-thingy might not be the best choice in the world.  Also, I'm uglier than necessary.

[Xilren's Twin]

Starting you basically at lvl 3 helps jump the "low level d&d sucks" part, and decent loot helps too.  I'm  not sure if the loot is static or random.  (Without being too spoilerish, did everyone get that flaming mace from the lizardman chieftan in the side swamp caves?) But thus far i've gotten several bard instruments too, which seems odd somehow.

I skipped that fight with diplomacy so I don't know. :)

Not that one (where you're after the shard and the lizardings), the side one which is past the inn and has full blown lizardmen.  You notice the difference when the shaman cast at you :)

Oh yeah, tons of traps so far.

[Bunk]

I'm enjoying it immensely now with the camera fix.

Playing a diplomatic and intimidating LE rogue/warlock. Warlock is kinda fun, it was a class designed for video game play (no memorizing spells, cast as often as you want).

Zombie disease can be cured with a healing kit with 1 point of healing skill. The loot is static as far as I can tell, happily backstabbing with my morninstar of flamey goodness.

I wasn't sure I would, but I'm actually getting a kick out of Mission ver. 2.0.

[Nija]

Not that one (where you're after the shard and the lizardings), the side one which is past the inn and has full blown lizardmen.  You notice the difference when the shaman cast at you :)

Oh yeah, tons of traps so far.

Yeah, I've got it in both of my games I have going now. Also, in each game, I couldn't identify it until I later found a ring that gives +6 lore. Also found that in both games. If I remember the dev blog correctly, module creators can specify that certain NPCs will always drop X, Y, Z items, and that certain chests will ALWAYS have item Q. You can also tell the chests to have random items up to a certain quality level, along with a minimum quality level.

And yes, tons and tons of traps. Also when you bash open chests you've got 66% chance of destroying one item. The lead designer really likes rogues, and hates that you've been able to easily overlook rogue skills in most RPGs in the last, oh, decade.

If you right click somewhere and hold, you can do broadcast messages to your party members and tell them to sit put. Using this and a sling, I was able to lure a whole group of undead through this particular hallway that has 3 nasty dart traps in a row, wiping them out. Neat stuff.

[El Gallo]

Anyone here get the preorder and/or collector's edition who can tell me what the unique items are? 


A few hours in, (THANK GOD FOR THAT CAMERA FIX) it's OK.  The story is a bit ho-hum (better than the original NWN campaign, which wasn't hard, but I really liked the SoU-HotU campaign quite a bit, especially the latter part, and it even made the original campaign a little less shitty) but it's early yet so I hope it will pick up.  I was a bit unhappy with the fact that my old buddy Deekin ends up selling handjobs on the streets of Neverwinter for coppers after the HotU ending told me he went off and became King of the Kobalds but what are you gonna do.

Took a level of bard then all fighter.  I am an utter whore for the use magic device skill, which reminds me of the good old basic edition elf/AD&D fighter-magic-user classes.  Bard rather than rogue because I might do the dragon desciple thing, which has cool wings. 

One level of rogue/bard + use magic device + able learner feat is probably a bit overpowered and certainly cheesy, but I cannot resist the allure of the tankmage.  A level of rogue would probably have more power, since you could use able learner to cram the key rogue skills (detect traps, remove traps, open locks) on your main and ditch the annoying NPC rogue a squshy rogue for another warrior/cleric/nuker type.  But wings are cool.  So I'm not a COMPLETE munchkin, right?

[Strazos]

All you need is some Elven Chain mail, or something like that. There was at least one set in BG II, so I don't see why this game would not have a set. It made my version of Imoen an absolute Beast in that game.

[schild]

This is why gaming journalism is a fucking joke. Supposedly, Joystiq has the pulled review of NWN2 and I've read it. It's about on par with the other shit you see on IGN, Gamestop, etc.

The editor tries to clean things up with this:

It was our own sense that it could be perceived as an unfair review because of the many criticisms he made of D&D itself. I don't even necessarily think his opinion was "wrong"---I just feel it should have gone through another round of editing/rewriting so that it wouldn't be perceived that we had someone review the game who would have been inherently predisposed to NOT like it from the start.

Well, ya know what, the point made in the review was valid. NWN, apparently, is filled with rules for the sake of having rules. That's a fucking problem when the actual rules of D&D are pretty goddamn boring. I hope, one day, people have the balls to just print nasty shit - it's not like Obsidian or Bioware have anywhere near the cojones to ignore 1up.

[stray]

Too bad, I didn't see the review. Seems to have been the same complaint I had with it though.

Some of the depth NWN offers is pretty cool, but one should be as free as necessary with those rules and pnp philosophies when it comes to video games.

Screenwriters don't adapt novels exactly as they were originally written when they present stories to movie audiences. Translators don't translate Spanish into English exactly how it's spoken originally. You have to make adjustments for syntax, tense, etc.. Nobody is stupid or fanatical enough to call these people careless or unfaithful -- and it should be the same with rpg's. RPG'ers need to grow up or stick with PnP.

There's a reason why games like Diablo, Zelda, and Dark Alliance are considered some of the best crpg's ever.

[Signe]

I pre-ordered in August and got the limited edition because it was DVD and I don't know what else is special about it.  It has a really terrible little paperback art book, a cheesy little fake silk map and two rings made out of something you'd never put on your finger.  One says chaotic evil and one says lawful good and they have the NWN eye engraved on them.  It's all in a normal sized box.  I don't think you get anything even remotely special.  MAYBE THEY'LL SEND ME A FREE* LAPTOP!!!

[Rasix]

There's a reason why games like Diablo, Zelda, and Dark Alliance are considered some of the best crpg's ever.

Qua?

[stray]

Not sure what you're asking...

Sure, they're on consoles, but they're still computer rpg's.

Besides, DA isn't much different from Diablo, and was inspired by it. Just different controls/platform.

Either way, my main point is : Action RPG's are the way to go. If you can retain depth, then by all means, do it. But in doing so, don't sacrifice the idea that these are video games first, rpg's second.

[Raging Turtle]

Any word on a patch for the camera/ctds?  I'm thinking about buying this or Oblivion.

[TardKommando]

Too bad, I didn't see the review...

It was a pretty crappy review:

As everything-the-original-did -- and more -- follow-ups go, Neverwinter Nights 2 deserves a banner&something like "mission accomplished." Think the sequel to Jurassic Park, where Spielberg's all "You want more dinosaurs? I'll show you more dinosaurs..." As a contemporary CRPG, on the other hand, NWN2 leaves a lot to be desired, and that's too bad, because these are the guys who brought us Planescape: Torment and Icewind Dale 2...and therefore they are the guys I'm least inclined to take issue with.

But issues exist, and defining them is really no more complex than saying, "Hello D&D superchrome, buh-bye storytelling and character development (you know, those things you're supposed to "immerse" yourself in)." The idea seems to be that we're meant to rah-rah about a superabundance of feats, spells, races, prestige (advanced) classes, and math-equation tickers full of the usual "I attack you with a +4 sword of --" booooooring. Fine, sure, dandy...but when is a "role" not a "role"? Simple: when it's a rule to a fault.

Ever loyal bites
I'm cruising for a bruising (don't I know it), but NWN2 is a splash of cold water to the face: A revelatory, polarizing experience that -- in the wake of newer, better alternatives -- makes you question the very notion of "RPG by numbers." It foists Wizards of the Coast's latest v3.5 D&D system (a molehill that's become a mountain at this point) onto your hard drive with stunning fidelity, then tacks on dozens of artificial-looking areas vaguely linked by forget-table plot points you check off like grocery to-do's.

Sure, the interface is sleeker with context-sensitive menus and a smart little bar that lets you more intuitively toggle modes like "power attack" and "stealth," but with all the added rule-shuffling, NWN2 seems like it's working twice as hard to accomplish half as much. Worse -- and blame this on games like Oblivion -- NWN2's levels feel pint-sized: Peewee zones inhabited by pull-string NPCs with no existence to speak of beyond their little playpens. Wander and you'll wonder why the forests, towns, and dungeons are like movie lots with lay-about monsters waiting patiently for you to trip their arbitrary triggers. As if the pencil and paper "module" approach were a virtue that computers -- by now demonstrably capable of simulating entire worlds with considerably more depth -- should emulate. It's like we're supposed to park half our brain in feature mania and the rest in nostalgic slush, and somehow call bingo.

The dungeons feel especially stale, so linear and inorganic they might as well be graph-paper lifts filled with room after room of pop-up bogeymen (Doom put them in closets; NWN2 just makes the closets bigger). Maybe you'd rather chat with the dumb NPCs that speak and sound like extras in a bad Saturday morning cartoon? Oh, boy -- there's the portrait "plus" sign! Time to shuffle another party member (improved to four simultaneous) through the level-up grinder, which you can click "recommend" to zip past...but then, what's the point?

Rule-playing game
In all fairness, it's not entirely developer Obsidian's fault. D&D certainly puts the "rule" in role-playing, and a madcap base of D&D aficionados is no doubt ready to string me up for suggesting that faithful is here tantamount to folly (to these people, I say: "Go for it, NWN2's all you've ever wanted and more"). Call me crazy -- I guess I'm just finally weary of being led around on a pencil-and-paper leash and batting numbers around a glorified three-dimensional spreadsheet in a computer translation that should have synthesized, not forklifted.

That five-of-10 is actually a hedge, by the way. For D&D fans who want to play an amazingly thorough PC translation of the system they're carting around in book form, it's proba-bly closer an eight or nine. But if, like me, you want less "rules for rule's sake" and more depth and beauty to your simulated game worlds, you can certainly find more exciting prospects. Part of the reason we call them "the good old days" and think fondly of games past is that it's always easier to love what we don't have to play anymore

[Rasix]

Not sure what you're asking...

Sure, they're on consoles, but they're still computer rpg's.

Again.. what? When I think of great computer RPGs, I don't think of something that's ONLY BEEN ON A CONSOLE.  Zelda isn't even remotely computerish.  I really don't know where you're going with that terminology, it's wrong.

I don't really consider Zelda a great RPG either.  Some of them have been great (some not so), but not because of their RPG elements.

Anyhow, I'd counter that action rpgs are the way to go with: great games are the way to go.  It's hard to make a great game when you're married to a particular set of rules that may not fit the presentation you've chosen or if you implement those rules in an overly burdensome manner.  PS:T, BG:2, etc have risen above their ruleset.  NWN really hasn't. 

Edit: Don't really want to have a terminology battle.  /derail  And I'm not sure I'm going to pick this title up anymore, not until I hear from someone that's finished the entire main campaign. 

[stray]

Not sure what you're asking...

Sure, they're on consoles, but they're still computer rpg's.

Again.. what? When I think of great computer RPGs, I don't think of something that's ONLY BEEN ON A CONSOLE.  Zelda isn't even remotely computerish.  I really don't know where you're going with that terminology, it's wrong.

Sorry, my bad. I forgot that my Nintendo ran on wood chips. Not computer chips. Or was it potato chips? I forget.

Anyhow, I'd counter that action rpgs are the way to go with: great games are the way to go.  It's hard to make a great game when you're married to a particular set of hard and fast rules that may not fit the presentation you've chosen or if you implement those rules in an overly burdensome manner.  PS:T, BG:2, etc have risen above their ruleset.  NWN really hasn't.

Fair enough.

[Sairon]

I agree with the pulled review. So there's a truckload of new spells / stats / classes to toy around with, that wasn't really the weakness of NWN in the first place though. The game is also crazy linear, it can only be played one way, that is to follow the story. However the immersivenes is nill so I couldn't care less about the story. Streamline the rules and remove all the useless jibberish, rework the combat system and then turn it into a hack n slash experience and I'd be all over it. Or better yet, rework the combat system to something resembling console action games.

[Strazos]

Actually, I favor deeper, more complex RPGs over your so-called "action RPGs." Surely, that's a personal preference, but I believe there's plenty of room for both.

And besides, all games have rules...just in some, the rules are more obvious and open for analysis.

[stray]

Actually, I favor deeper, more complex RPGs over your so-called "action RPGs." Surely, that's a personal preference, but I believe there's plenty of room for both.

And besides, all games have rules...just in some, the rules are more obvious and open for analysis.

Hey, I like depth too. It's possible to keep gameplay fairly visceral and intuitive, while leaving the depth to storyline and character building.

As far gameplay goes, there should be certain rules:  Standard D&D wizard/arcane mechanics just will not do. Video game characters must hurl firebolts with impunity. Give them a fucking mana bar while you're at it.

Less cluttered interfacing, and a little more clickety-click/button mashing. Quickcast bars, aura/utility spell bars, hotkey bars, and top it off, manual assignment and organization of all these keys -- That's bullshit. A little more transparancy would go a long way.

At the very least, learn how to make something as basic as movement not be such a fucking chore.