Useless Conversation

[Yegolev]

Why the shit is the Olympic Torch in Dallas, GA? 

The better question would be "why are YOU in Dallas, GA?" 

If my wife dies first, I'm moving to the mountains.

[Paelos]

You mean the real mountains, right? Not the ones in Kennessaw.

[Samwise]

You should use a cross-platform centralized version control system or something.  

I've only been hearing about this for about 2 weeks now, but I *think* this was tried back in June/ July and the problem was the time it took to distribute the updated versions was unacceptable.  I know I've heard Mercurial referenced a few times in the discussions as I was working.

Anything less than "instant" is nonsense in a production environment, a 10 second delay is deemed unacceptable much less 1-2 mins.   If I hit "save" then after the save is finished the person right next to me must be able to open and see that version right away, not after the DVC updates.  I've heard them mention problems with saving and files not showing up on the network for 5-10 mins., which is clownshoes. Again not my area of responsibility so I'm not fully up to speed on the whys of that one.

Yeah, Mercurial doesn't do well with large files IIRC; seems like it'd be a bad choice for anything graphics-related.

Since I work on this kind of thing for a living I got to go to Pixar's offices recently to check out the system they use for sharing their massive art assets between all their artists and their render farm.  It's pretty fucking cool but they had to roll a good chunk of it themselves since their needs (and available resources) are somewhat atypical.  Sharing/versioning the sorts of files you're talking about would be babytown frolics by comparison but it's still a little trickier than setting everyone up with Dropbox and calling it a day.

[Merusk]

Ah. I haven't run into that, but I don't think anyone has used our one computer with the Adobe Suite in a couple years. We save to the file server all the time.

Random corrupt files, sure. 

I understand this is part of the 'saving to a network' issue.  If what I read was correct, Macs don't rename the original and then write a new file, they overwrite the original in total. Which causes this sort of nonsense.   We get 2 errors, one is "this was saved in another version of Illustrator" (it wasn't) and one where the files are corrupted and unusable.  Both are apparently related to networking and fixable by doing a local save & copy.

And our accountant refuses to use mac-compatible software, I have her a pc...and she refuses to evaluate new account software so I didn't issue her the Win7 she got last year for an upgrade, it's a print management station, screw 'er.

Are you sure it's her refusal and not some other nonsense like "hey, we're a government entity and what I have to upload needs to be xyz softare?"   Plus accountants at every place I've ever worked have been really dodgy about upgrades.  We're on a version of Timekeeper that's so old we have to run a Windows 2000 VM just to keep it going.  Looking to upgrade next year but they're being really slow about it since if you have one error they're professionally fucked.  I sort of get it.

Yeah, Mercurial doesn't do well with large files IIRC; seems like it'd be a bad choice for anything graphics-related.

Since I work on this kind of thing for a living I got to go to Pixar's offices recently to check out the system they use for sharing their massive art assets between all their artists and their render farm.  It's pretty fucking cool but they had to roll a good chunk of it themselves since their needs (and available resources) are somewhat atypical.  Sharing/versioning the sorts of files you're talking about would be babytown frolics by comparison but it's still a little trickier than setting everyone up with Dropbox and calling it a day.

Our dept. head is a few years younger than I am and has always worked on PCs, and the Network guy is smart but never worked with Macs.  I suppose it shouldn't surprise me they picked one solution and it might not have been the best. They're both also "doers" not "planners" so.. uh.. rush decisions.

Since you do this, what would you recommend? I can talk to them on Monday and see if they've investigated this solution, keeping in mind we still need to have the files central on the network file server and the 'quick update' requirement.

[Samwise]

Since you do this, what would you recommend? I can talk to them on Monday and see if they've investigated this solution, keeping in mind we still need to have the files central on the network file server and the 'quick update' requirement.

So, what we do where I work is use our own product (Perforce), which is geared mainly at software developers doing concurrent work on lots of files.  It's fast and handles huge files fine, but it's based around a push/pull model of the user telling the system what you're doing (so that you can group changes into logical transactions with descriptions and stuff) and other users saying explicitly that they want to pull down the latest version (so their own local version doesn't get stomped while they're working on it).  It's quick, but you have to push a button to say "get me the latest version now" and "check in my saved version now".  That might not work for you based on your description.

It sounds like as far as the end user experience you want something more like Dropbox (except LAN-only) where stuff automatically gets scooped up when you save it to your local disk, and then it's automatically pushed out to other machines, and you sort of cross your fingers and hope that two people aren't working on one file at the same time, and as long as that's true everything just works.  I'm not sure if that's a thing that exists as as a decent piece of commercial and cross-platform software yet -- Dropbox has some features to optimize file transfers over a LAN but I don't think there's a pure LAN mode where you can use your own file server as the central repository.

If I were in your IT department and on the ball I'd probably be looking at something like Unison which on paper fits the bill perfectly -- the rub is that since it's not a commercial product you need to be on the ball enough to not need tech support.  That or I'd be rolling something myself (probably with Perforce on the back end, because bias).  Which is basically what Pixar did.  Or I'd try to give my artists version control religion so they'd learn to just do the extra step of making sure stuff gets to the central server, but from experience that almost never works, because artists.  At a software company with a few artists you can sort of outnumber them and make them conform, but if they're the majority they're gonna use the thing they want to use and NOTHING ELSE so you're just kinda boned unless you can make something that'll do it for them.

[Yegolev]

You mean the real mountains, right? Not the ones in Kennessaw.

God no, why move at all?  Although Kennesaw/Marietta is nicer than Hiram.

Most likely some desolate place in Montana where I get snowed in and have to eat canned beans for months.

[Miasma]

Meh.

[Paelos]

You mean the real mountains, right? Not the ones in Kennessaw.

God no, why move at all?  Although Kennesaw/Marietta is nicer than Hiram.

Most likely some desolate place in Montana where I get snowed in and have to eat canned beans for months.

I recommend Northwestern Colorado then.

[Nebu]

Jackson Hole, WY.  Tetons are BEAUTIFUL.

[Selby]

The tetons are beautiful, but there's too many damn people in Jackson Hole.  Not to mention all the Yellowstone tourists...

[Yegolev]

I'd live somewhere outside Jackson Hole; that's actually about where I was thinking.  The Tetons are fantastic and there are some residential areas there which I'd live in.  Close enough to buy food and fly somewhere but far enough that I could avoid seeing lots of assholes for extended periods.  Also I'm a sucker for Yellowstone, especially Mammoth.  Yes, I know how far that is from Grand Tetons.

[Sky]

Canned beans? Son, you need to prepare better.

Also, CO has the benefit of a certain legality if you *cough* know what I mean.

[Nebu]

I think I may move back to Laramie or Ft. Collins when I retire.  I am stupid for ever leaving that job in the first place.  There's something about waking up to the mountains that changes the way you approach life.

[ghost]

Laramie would be awesome.  Fort Collins is a little to big for me now.  When I retire I definitely want to have a major state university in the town I live in, too. 

[Nebu]

Laramie would be awesome.  Fort Collins is a little to big for me now.  When I retire I definitely want to have a major state university in the town I live in, too. 

I lived in Laramie for 8 years and never appreciated it when I was there.  It certainly isn't for everyone.

[ghost]

Well, no.  Some people need to be around tons of other people and have a Gap and Chipotle right next door to both their work and their house.   

[Nebu]

Well, no.  Some people need to be around tons of other people and have a Gap and Chipotle right next door to both their work and their house.   

There's that.  Also being on a high plains mesa means; snow during 4th of July fireworks, having to drive through a mountain pass in all directions making it tough to get out of town from November - May, a 25 mph prevailing wind, etc.

[ghost]

You have to be appreciative of winter outdoors activities, for sure. 

[WayAbvPar]

I love scenery and access to outdoors, and hate people. However, I need access to entertainment, restaurants, and fast Internet. Can someone just patent a teleporter already?

[Sky]

I love the mountains, but I love forest, too. No mesa for me, thanks. I'd love to retire up into the Adirondacks, if there's any affordable land left with all the city folk buying up property and building second mansions. It's really nice country up there and fairly simple (not easy) to be self-sustaining.

[Ingmar]

Sign me up for a teleporter in Quincy, CA.

[Numtini]

I love scenery and access to outdoors, and hate people. However, I need access to entertainment, restaurants, and fast Internet. Can someone just patent a teleporter already?

College towns are the answer.

[rattran]

I'm still looking in Park County Colorado, and parts of Teller. Mountains, trees, snow, not many neighbors.

[Merusk]

I love scenery and access to outdoors, and hate people. However, I need access to entertainment, restaurants, and fast Internet. Can someone just patent a teleporter already?

College towns are the answer.

No.  All you have to do is look at how angry and pissed-off those old people living around you were in college to know that's not the answer.  We're all closer to those old people in age than we'd like to believe.

[ghost]

No.  They're generally the answer.  You just have to be careful where you live.  Don't live next door to the SAE house and expect to get to sleep at all or to not have drunk frat boys hanging out on your lawn at 3:00 AM.

[Nebu]

No.  They're generally the answer.  You just have to be careful where you live.  Don't live next door to the SAE house and expect to get to sleep at all or to not have drunk frat boys hanging out on your lawn at 3:00 AM.

Consider Madison, WI.  With the University = awesome.  Without = another farm town in podunk WI.

I'm considering retiring to Asheville, NC as well.  It's a great little hippy town with mild winters. 

[ghost]

Don't you have a ways to go until retirement?   

[Nebu]

Don't you have a ways to go until retirement?   

I have to think about retirement so I don't think about being stuck in the shitty town I live in now.  There are so few faculty jobs lately that I'm feeling like I'm trapped in Bible-belt-hell.

[Chimpy]

Illinois is supposed to be hiring a ton of faculty in the next couple years. Of course, champaign is the opposite if mountainous.

[Nebu]

Illinois is supposed to be hiring a ton of faculty in the next couple years. Of course, champaign is the opposite if mountainous.

Illinois is considered top 10 in my field (Chemistry).  Job openings there garner 300+ applications per position.  Very high stress job as well. 

[murdoc]

Does anyone have the full 'I disagree with what you said' quote from Somebob (I believe) from LtM way back when?

[Paelos]

I wouldn't mind retiring to Athens, GA. However, you couldn't live there and have a real job if you wanted to make any real money.

[Nebu]

Does anyone have the full 'I disagree with what you said' quote from Somebob (I believe) from LtM way back when?

Did you check the archives Lum keeps on Broken Toys?

[IainC]

"You know the worst thing about the community job is? You can't say things like 'it's amazing that somebody with that much man-dick in his mouth is still able to say such stupid things'. Instead all you can say is 'I disagree with what you said'.

Hey Binky, I disagree with what you said."

Source

[Tale]

motherfuckingwebsite.com (SFW if profanity is okay)