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Author Topic: Useless Conversation  (Read 1328564 times)
Rasix
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Posts: 14159

I am the harbinger of your doom!


Reply #35665 on: March 10, 2017, 11:10:58 PM

Without any context I'd bet the language.  Me too.

Since QA is always the last to be told  awesome, for real ... why? Well, that and I've been informed by my second line that come next year I'll have yet another new job. Might help to know just incase that new job doesn't exist Jan 1, 2018.

So, couldn't hurt.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2017, 11:13:46 PM by Rasix »

-Rasix
rattran
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Posts: 3771

Unreasonable


Reply #35666 on: March 11, 2017, 09:21:13 PM

Arizona weather sucks. Arizona people stuck more. At least there's no daylight saving time.
Viin
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Reply #35667 on: March 12, 2017, 12:51:44 AM

I like Daylight Savings time, I just wish it stayed +1 hr forever and stopped falling back in the fall.

- Viin
satael
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Reply #35668 on: March 12, 2017, 05:25:28 AM

Changing the time is really stupid since we are no longer an agrarian society (and it's also unhealthy)
Chimpy
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Reply #35669 on: March 12, 2017, 07:42:11 AM

Changing the time is really stupid since we are no longer an agrarian society (and it's also unhealthy)

It also didn't help much in the agrarian days either.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Mandella
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Reply #35670 on: March 12, 2017, 10:59:22 AM

I like Daylight Savings time, I just wish it stayed +1 hr forever and stopped falling back in the fall.

I initially read this to mean just keep adding one hour to the clock every spring, with no fall correction.

Okay, sure. I could get used to that!
calapine
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Posts: 4338

Solely responsible for the thread on "The Condom Wall."


Reply #35671 on: March 12, 2017, 11:01:18 AM

Apparently I am one of the few people that likes the time change.

Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic!
Teleku
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Reply #35672 on: March 12, 2017, 11:08:25 AM

Any particular reason why?

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
-Stephen Colbert
Chimpy
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Reply #35673 on: March 12, 2017, 11:23:06 AM

I like the time change in the fall because it usually gets my "body clock" better in sync with my life so I don't oversleep as much.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Signe
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Muse.


Reply #35674 on: March 12, 2017, 11:43:54 AM

I don't like it.  I think it's silly.  Stupid time.

My Sig Image: hath rid itself of this mortal coil.
Chimpy
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Reply #35675 on: March 12, 2017, 11:45:08 AM

Overall I think it is a stupid idea and it needs to go away. But while it exists, I will admit to enjoying the additional hour of sleep one day a year.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Sky
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Reply #35676 on: March 12, 2017, 02:49:54 PM

I like Daylight Savings time, I just wish it stayed +1 hr forever and stopped falling back in the fall.
Are you in a hurry to die? Most people want more time in the day, not less.

HaemishM
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Reply #35677 on: March 12, 2017, 02:50:28 PM

Fuck Daylight Savings Time at both ends. That is all.

Rendakor
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Reply #35678 on: March 12, 2017, 05:15:25 PM

Agreed. It's stupid and I hate it. If we jumped the clocks forward an hour, say, at 1pm on Friday maybe I could get behind it.

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Samwise
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Reply #35679 on: March 12, 2017, 06:27:18 PM

If I were emperor of the world we'd just all be on UTC because fuck having to know somebody's position in space to be able to interpret a timestamp.

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
schild
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Reply #35680 on: March 12, 2017, 08:55:23 PM

If I were emperor of the world we'd just all be on UTC because fuck having to know somebody's position in space to be able to interpret a timestamp.

This.
Viin
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Reply #35681 on: March 12, 2017, 09:30:12 PM

If I were emperor of the world we'd just all be on UTC because fuck having to know somebody's position in space to be able to interpret a timestamp.

Isn't everything on UTC already? I mean, the only reason we have timezones at all is to figure out if someone is awake and/or at work. All systems I work with are on UTC at the core level and show TZ-adjusted date/times just to make it friendly.

- Viin
Samwise
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Reply #35682 on: March 12, 2017, 11:14:02 PM

If I were emperor of the world we'd just all be on UTC because fuck having to know somebody's position in space to be able to interpret a timestamp.

Isn't everything on UTC already? I mean, the only reason we have timezones at all is to figure out if someone is awake and/or at work. All systems I work with are on UTC at the core level and show TZ-adjusted date/times just to make it friendly.

Everything is UTC on the back end, but as a developer you still have to deal with humans inputting timezone-relative times (and expecting output to be timezone-adjusted on their end).  And as a human you have to make the mental adjustment every time you travel or every time you talk to someone in another time zone.  There's no good reason for it.

It'd probably take us all about a year to get used to having a single time zone.  The next generation after us would just be amazed that there was a time in human history where we all tried to individually match our clocks to the sun.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2017, 11:31:37 PM by Samwise »

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Ironwood
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Reply #35683 on: March 13, 2017, 04:02:17 AM

Soooo, you want to take away my extra hour in bed ?

Fuck off all of you.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Teleku
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Reply #35684 on: March 13, 2017, 04:58:25 AM

Ah, but we are making up for it by giving you another extra hour in bed in Spring!
If I were emperor of the world we'd just all be on UTC because fuck having to know somebody's position in space to be able to interpret a timestamp.

Isn't everything on UTC already? I mean, the only reason we have timezones at all is to figure out if someone is awake and/or at work. All systems I work with are on UTC at the core level and show TZ-adjusted date/times just to make it friendly.

Everything is UTC on the back end, but as a developer you still have to deal with humans inputting timezone-relative times (and expecting output to be timezone-adjusted on their end).  And as a human you have to make the mental adjustment every time you travel or every time you talk to someone in another time zone.  There's no good reason for it.

It'd probably take us all about a year to get used to having a single time zone.  The next generation after us would just be amazed that there was a time in human history where we all tried to individually match our clocks to the sun.
Wait, how would this possibly work?  A single time zone?  The time would be totally meaningless without somebody giving me another piece of information to make sense of what time of day it actually is (ehem, a time zone perhaps).  Knowing that its globally 11 AM is totally useless when trying to deal with India while I sit in California.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2017, 05:07:38 AM by Teleku »

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
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Merusk
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Reply #35685 on: March 13, 2017, 05:22:28 AM

Yeah you'd still have to make that mental travel adjustment.  Not to mention the physical adjustment to all of your alarms that were set to your old region of the planet.

Oh shit. I forgot to adjust my alarm from 21:00 to 19:00 now I'm really fucking late.

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
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SurfD
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Reply #35686 on: March 13, 2017, 05:47:39 AM

Ah, but we are making up for it by giving you another extra hour in bed in Spring!
If I were emperor of the world we'd just all be on UTC because fuck having to know somebody's position in space to be able to interpret a timestamp.

Isn't everything on UTC already? I mean, the only reason we have timezones at all is to figure out if someone is awake and/or at work. All systems I work with are on UTC at the core level and show TZ-adjusted date/times just to make it friendly.

Everything is UTC on the back end, but as a developer you still have to deal with humans inputting timezone-relative times (and expecting output to be timezone-adjusted on their end).  And as a human you have to make the mental adjustment every time you travel or every time you talk to someone in another time zone.  There's no good reason for it.

It'd probably take us all about a year to get used to having a single time zone.  The next generation after us would just be amazed that there was a time in human history where we all tried to individually match our clocks to the sun.
Wait, how would this possibly work?  A single time zone?  The time would be totally meaningless without somebody giving me another piece of information to make sense of what time of day it actually is (ehem, a time zone perhaps).  Knowing that its globally 11 AM is totally useless when trying to deal with India while I sit in California.
This.  We have timezones for a reason, especially the modern, ultra connected small world.  People would get kind of pissed at you when you call them up to ask them something and expect them to be awake wherever the hell they are just because the sun happens to be up where you are.   We may not be an "Agrarian" society any more, but humans are still creatures of habit and to a lesser extent animal instinct, and for the VAST majority of us, our days still (mostly) revolve around the rising and setting of the sun wherever we happen to be.

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Yegolev
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Reply #35687 on: March 13, 2017, 08:33:27 AM

Everything is UTC on the back end, but as a developer you still have to deal with humans inputting timezone-relative times (and expecting output to be timezone-adjusted on their end).

Unless your audience is solely meteorologists and programmers. Ohhhhh, I see.

The latest prod that is making me want to learn Go (or golang) is the fact that I am looking for a "URL monitor", which requires some explanation.  At a minimum, I need to do a HTTP GET and parse a JSON payload.  I was hoping to not do something stupid like bash(curl|jq) but everyone else in the world is just running web servers and the tools mostly deal with load testing and other things that I don't need.  There is a real programmer who has actually written something in Go that I can steal and modify, and so I'd need to learn Go.  Alternately, I can get some dollars for New Relic Synthetics.  Ultimately the decision will rest on if I can avoid doing cowboy support for a in-house program.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
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Trippy
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Reply #35688 on: March 13, 2017, 09:05:49 AM

You don't need to learn Go just to do that. Just use Perl/Ruby/Python or even JavaScript (node.js). I thought you were learning about Docker internals when you said that.
Samwise
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Reply #35689 on: March 13, 2017, 09:35:04 AM

Yeah you'd still have to make that mental travel adjustment.  Not to mention the physical adjustment to all of your alarms that were set to your old region of the planet.

Oh shit. I forgot to adjust my alarm from 21:00 to 19:00 now I'm really fucking late.

You have to do that anyway if the device isn't GPS-aware.  If the device is smart enough to know where it is and adjust the time zone under the current system, it'd be smart enough to know where it is and ask you if you want to shift your wakeup time to keep it daylight-relative.

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Merusk
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Reply #35690 on: March 13, 2017, 10:23:48 AM

Which, then, doesn't fix your problem at all. Programmers still have:
.. to deal with humans inputting timezone-relative times (and expecting output to be timezone-adjusted on their end).  And as a human you have to make the mental adjustment every time you travel or every time you talk to someone in another time zone.

Except now those timezones are hidden from the user and they don't have a reference scheme to make that adjustment.

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
Yegolev
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2/10 WOULD NOT INGEST


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Reply #35691 on: March 13, 2017, 10:47:48 AM

You don't need to learn Go just to do that. Just use Perl/Ruby/Python or even JavaScript (node.js). I thought you were learning about Docker internals when you said that.

I absolutely do not need to learn Go.

Those are all fine choices (except maybe Perl) if I end up writing this from zero, but the only one I know already is Perl.  I'm a Ruby novice, in that I have read a couple books and can look up most of the info I need.  I won't be wasting anything if I do learn Go.  Also the dude who advised me said that it's easy to multiprocess the monitor, which is appealing.

As for internals, Terraform is written in Go and I do use that tool.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
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Samwise
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Reply #35692 on: March 13, 2017, 02:04:56 PM

Which, then, doesn't fix your problem at all. Programmers still have:
.. to deal with humans inputting timezone-relative times (and expecting output to be timezone-adjusted on their end).  And as a human you have to make the mental adjustment every time you travel or every time you talk to someone in another time zone.

Except now those timezones are hidden from the user and they don't have a reference scheme to make that adjustment.

Meh.  You don't have pre-defined timezones at that point (which are subject to the whims of stupid local governments), if you have a use case that requires you to sync up with the sun (which is pretty much just wake-up alarms -- if you're traveling for work and you have calendar reminders to have you dial into your team meeting back home or whatever, you would specifically not want to adjust those to local time) you just use the exact longitude (which is objectively definable) and then do a little rounding.

Quote
You have recently traveled 2 hours and 13 minutes sunward.  Would you like to adjust your alarm 'Wake Up' from 1400 to 1200 to sync with local daylight?
(X)Yes  (  )No   [X]Don't ask me again for this alarm

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Teleku
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Reply #35693 on: March 13, 2017, 02:08:16 PM

I'm still not sure how a single time zone would work or in any way or be more desirable than the current system.

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
-Stephen Colbert
Chimpy
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Reply #35694 on: March 13, 2017, 02:14:27 PM

I'm still not sure how a single time zone would work or in any way or be more desirable than the current system.

It is only better for computers, but since most computer systems all run with a UTC internal clock that is converted to a time zone for display purposes that point is moot.

Just get rid of daylight savings.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Rasix
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Posts: 14159

I am the harbinger of your doom!


Reply #35695 on: March 13, 2017, 02:36:04 PM

I have some horror stories about time zones, NTP servers, and the havoc that not being synced across your SAN can cause. They're not very interesting.  awesome, for real

Being in Arizona can kind of suck if your meetings are based out of a different time zone. My 8:30am scrum just became a 7:30. At 3pm instead of 4pm, most of the management are going to be out the door and probably half of the developers as well. But at least I don't have to change my clocks.  Ohhhhh, I see.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2017, 02:53:34 PM by Rasix »

-Rasix
Merusk
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Reply #35696 on: March 13, 2017, 02:52:14 PM

I'm still not sure how a single time zone would work or in any way or be more desirable than the current system.

It is only better for computers, but since most computer systems all run with a UTC internal clock that is converted to a time zone for display purposes that point is moot.

Yeah, it's usual programmer thinking. "This makes my life suck. It should go away, I don't care about anything else."   Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly? DRILLING AND MANLINESS

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
Soln
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Reply #35697 on: March 13, 2017, 02:55:30 PM

At a minimum, I need to do a HTTP GET and parse a JSON payload. 

Node.js + Express (middleware for routes) + body-parser module.  (https://www.npmjs.com/package/body-parser)

Quote
This module provides the following parsers:
JSON body parser
Raw body parser
Text body parser
URL-encoded form body parser
Samwise
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Reply #35698 on: March 13, 2017, 03:25:49 PM

I'm still not sure how a single time zone would work or in any way or be more desirable than the current system.

I'll give you one real-world example that many of us can probably relate to -- coordinating a goddamn raid in a MMO when everyone is in a different timezone.   why so serious?

Usually you end up solving this by having everyone coordinate in "game time" which is usually UTC.  IMO life in our increasingly-globalized society would be easier if we just did that by default so it didn't require having to do mental math to convert from what we think of as "local time".  /shrug

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Merusk
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Reply #35699 on: March 13, 2017, 04:06:07 PM

Except the conversion isn't the difficult part. It's remembering, "Oh yeah, I can't have an UTC 13:00 meeting (8am EST) because that's UTC 10:00 in California and those fuckers are still asleep."

The conversion is the least of the concern, same as the raid scheduling. It's understanding the world in general and considering areas of time outside of your own. That won't go away because it's a people problem.

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
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