Age of Conan: Class List

[Strazos]

Maybe it has something to do with starting areas, and whether they are implemented or not?

[stray]

Maybe it has something to do with starting areas, and whether they are implemented or not?

Or maybe they're just trying to push right buttons to create hype. The average mmo fucktard probably responds to "23 Classes" more than "this or that many Races".

Besides, almost every game to date, except amateurish and/or generic crap like that Dungeon Runners game, has more than a few starter areas or races. It's almost fundamental for a game of this scale -- 23 classes isn't. Hell, most games don't even have that many classes after several expansions.

[Engels]

Stray man, would you listen to yourself for a moment? This game is about raping, pillaging, hard core violence and destruction. Is it THAT important to you that Africans be 'represented' in such a world? If the game were MMO United Colors of Beneton online, ok, fine, you'd have a point, since the whole issue would be to adequately represent the world in an attempt to simulate a happy fun fun kumbaya moment. But Conan?

[Modern Angel]

Read everything Stray and I posted before bringing up Benetton, please. Summary: Race is more than just race in Hyboria.

I'm still going to check it out, though.

[Slayerik]

I'm guessing the lore is deep...

I'm also guessing that no matter what FC did, the guy following you around /azzraping you is gonna kill any real immersion! Now, back to the important stuff....

Like ASS SLIDERS.

[stray]

Ass sliders are good. I'll agree on that.

[Venkman]

The thing that bothers me more than anything is the 23 classes. Come on. There's barely 23 unique combat abilities in these games. So right away you're talking about heavily specialized classes that clash with the innate need for soloability at some level. I don't care if it's full PvP+ once people choose one of those 23+ sub-sub- Classes. They are going to want to solo, at risk, once in a while. Games that require groups fulltime are and remain niche, and for the money Funcom is throwing at this beast, I don't think they're shooting for the next Shadowbane.

So either they'll blend abilities across classes so much the need for 23 of them is subjugated. Or, they'll end up trying to arbitrarily keep them separate and end up with about 13 classes that fall below the threshold of developer attention, for the lack of play they get (whether that's caused by that lack of attention or just because they're bad doesn't change the outcome).

[stray]

Yeah, it's a lot of wasted time better spent on developing content and making this game resemble the world of Conan more.


I say that as someone who likes a lot of class options in games too. IMO, Shadowbane is a good example of a game that had a good deal of launch classes -- and even they didn't go that far (I think they launched with 18 classes...a handful of which were pretty worthless and/or unused).

However, that game had zero "content" too. They could devote almost all of their time to class skills and interaction. Funcom doesn't have that luxury.

------

Back to races again for a second: I'll admit that Funcom has a bigger task ahead of them beyond just implementing "starter areas". From my understanding, each race in AoC has a "Border Kingdom" (i.e. the pvp/conflict zones...though they do contain pve as well). So that means that each race, in effect, has two big zones associated with them. Fleshing out a race in AoC might be twice as much work than what's required for the usual mmorpg.

I still think they should do this for a few more races though. Cutting down the launch classes to at least 16, or even 12 (4 or 3 for each archetype) would provide the time.

[Margalis]

Classes are far more imporant than races. In most games races don't really matter in the end. You can use equipment and whatever else to make up for racial issues and special race skills are typically not that strong. Races making a huge difference is kind of silly as it just allows players to fuck themselves at the character creation screen.

Races are basically cosmetic, not a great way to spend time.

[stray]

Dude....

OK, so you've mentioned a liking for Solomon Kane stories. I won't completely write you off....But.....I have to know if you've actually read any of Howard's Conan stories?

Because it seems like you value the entire license, and the situational contexts it dispenses, in the same way you would value the color in a deck of cards. Maybe that's because you develop games and view games on a more fundamental, protypical level. I don't know....But there's a lot more to Conan's world than just fluff.

Besides, even Funcom themselves thought races were important enough to make distinct classes for each of them.

[EDIT]

If you personally don't care about races, fine. I don't care. I do care if you try to make it out like races don't matter at all though. 

Secondly, what would it do to you if I got to play a Hyrkanian or Kushite? What's the big deal to you? If you can be happy with what's already there, then including extra races does nothing to you. It's not like making one group of people happy means no else will be happy as a result. I'm not advocating anything other than harmless options.

[Velorath]

Back to races again for a second: I'll admit that Funcom has a bigger task ahead of them beyond just implementing "starter areas". From my understanding, each race in AoC has a "Border Kingdom" (i.e. the pvp/conflict zones...though they do contain pve as well). So that means that each race, in effect, has two big zones associated with them. Fleshing out a race in AoC might be twice as much work than what's required for the usual mmorpg.

I still think they should do this for a few more races though. Cutting down the launch classes to at least 16, or even 12 (4 or 3 for each archetype) would provide the time.

Given that characters are supposed to start on a slave ship, I'm not sure why each race would need to have their own starter area anyway.

[Slyfeind]

There will be tons of players who play as Hyrkanian and Nubian and so on and so forth, even if the game systems don't support it. (Slight tangent here; I wonder if this sort of roleplay will be met with the same derission as elves and vampires in UO....)

[stray]

If I was really desperate, I'd probably do that very thing. But I'm not desperate. I loathe the idea of playing anything else, except maybe Aquilonian (as an "Aquilonian" that is). It would nag the shit out of me if I was running around as an Asian Cimmerian or Norse Stygian. I'm just too obsessive for that sort of thing. Further, I'd want to grief anyone else who did it.

Hell, even little things in games can be gamebreaking for me. Say, the cleft lips on all human males in WoW. Or how Undead shoulders look lame compared to what they used to. Or that my character Matador in CoH doesn't have a matador hat. Or if I can get a name on a server that I'm absolutely settled on.

I can't even stand those little things. Fat chance I'll ever accept the whole no Hyrkanian/Black Cimmerian deal.

[Lantyssa]

There is no way you will like any game based on an IP if you take it as seriously as you do Conan's.  You have too much of a preconceived notion of how it should be and any deviation from that is going to drive you mad.  Games have to take liberties if they are going to have any complexity.  Sorry, it must suck as you love the original, but it is going to be true for anyone with such strong feelings.

[Threash]

There will be tons of players who play as Hyrkanian and Nubian and so on and so forth, even if the game systems don't support it. (Slight tangent here; I wonder if this sort of roleplay will be met with the same derission as elves and vampires in UO....)

Roleplay? tons of players? come on :P  There might be one or two others like Stray that feel that strongly about race but to 99.9% of the people playing this or any other game the race choice comes down to looks/bonuses not roleplay or lore.

[tazelbain]

I didn't realize Conan had a hardcore fanbase.

[Signe]

I didn't realize Conan had a hardcore fanbase.

Me either.  I've never read it and didn't even know it was something remotely popular.

[stray]

There is no way you will like any game based on an IP if you take it as seriously as you do Conan's.  You have too much of a preconceived notion of how it should be and any deviation from that is going to drive you mad.  Games have to take liberties if they are going to have any complexity.  Sorry, it must suck as you love the original, but it is going to be true for anyone with such strong feelings.

I appreciate the sentiment, but I must say that some of you are making too much out of my advocating of lore. I'm not merely advocating lore. I'm advocating LORE. Not "lore", not "Lore" with a a captial L, but "LORE" in all caps.

I'm not talking about "lore" in sense of "No, no, no! Hobbit huts are shaped liked this!" or "Red crystals are only used in Sith lightsabers! Giving them to Jedis is a travesty!" I'm talking about lore as in "these are the most fundamental things Robert E. Howard's works rest on". His modus operandi, if you will. "The only fucking reason why he wrote the books in the first place" kind of lore.

I invite anyone here to read the works themselves to get a glimpse as to why I'm so adamant about this.  Besides that, it's good, entertaining literature to boot. It's the only fantasy literature this fantasy literature hater thinks is worth a damn at least.

Merry Christmas.

[Mr. Right]

Any advise on how to get the whole series from 1 to xx?  Any great compilation? 

I'm talking about the books of course.

[stray]

Any advise on how to get the whole series from 1 to xx?  Any great compilation? 

I'm talking about the books of course.

Try this first: The Coming of Conan the Cimmerian

It's Howard's first stories in the chronological order that he wrote them, and without tampering or emendations.

[hal]

Ordered. Thank you. I hope to share your passion but not your frustration. But again ...Thank You.

[Velorath]

I didn't realize Conan had a hardcore fanbase.

Well the character has been around for 75 years now, and people still write Conan novels and comics.  Does it really surprise you that there's a strong fanbase?  I know when a lot of people hear Conan they think of the movies, but I can't stress enough how good Robert E. Howard's orignial stories were.  Hell, Lovecraft was a huge fan of Howard's stuff (the two became good friends later).

[Kail]

Ordered. Thank you. I hope to share your passion but not your frustration. But again ...Thank You.

According to Wikipedia, the original Conan books (by Howard) fall into public domain in a month (at least in the UK), so you might not want to buy the full set just yet.

[stray]

Hey, that's pretty cool news. Didn't know that.

Still though, it doesn't hurt to get a hard copy. Page turning is fun.

The Darkhorse comics are good too. They're just translations of Howard's original tales.....Though Howard's original prose is a thing to enjoy itself.

I haven't read all of them yet however, but I'm sure Velorath could tell you more.

As for everything else, the first Arnie flick is great, but even then, it's dumbed down pastiche -- though it might be the best example of it. Gotta love that movie. Some of the secondary stories I've read are OK as well, but for the most part, they are still crap compared to REH (I still haven't read those new "Age of Conan" books though). Even the best efforts have done a disservice to Conan, and have created all the wrong impressions of naked chicks, loincloths, and pointless skull splitting. It's a bit more than that.

Taking all that in account, Funcom isn't doing anything remarkable. Dilution is to be expected. I just didn't expect this level of it. Not now. One of the excuses for all of those bad stories in the past was that a lot of Howard's material wasn't easily accessible. That volume I linked above is the first time in like 70 years that the "true" Conan stories have been compiled in one collection. There isn't any need to fall back on imagination anymore.

[tazelbain]

Well the character has been around for 75 years now, and people still write Conan novels and comics.  Does it really surprise you that there's a strong fanbase?  I know when a lot of people hear Conan they think of the movies, but I can't stress enough how good Robert E. Howard's orignial stories were.  Hell, Lovecraft was a huge fan of Howard's stuff (the two became good friends later).

I understood that people still found the stories amusing.  I didn't realize it was to level where people obsess over the details like Star Trek.

[stray]

Well, seeing that it's retained it's vitality and relevance for 80 years should tell you something....

[Venkman]

Actually, I share the sentiment of surprise. All I know of Conan is the Swarzenegger movies. I had no idea it was that old. I also had no idea Conan wasn't just created for the movies, but rather, movies created from the IP. At 80 years it even predates Tolkien, and yet incorporates fantasy-like elements right?

[stray]

Kind of fantasy. The "real" hardcore fans would call it sword and sorcery. Whatever that means. His writing is more pulpy, rugged, and not quite so grand or heroic as typical fantasy though.

Also, Howard was writing historical fiction books before Conan, but he didn't like the idea of being bogged down by facts. So he decided to create his own world that incorporated all of these historical nations and legends into a singular myth. This allowed him to carry on his interest in writing and commentating about history, civilization, and barbarians, but not getting bogged down into too much with fact checking. And I guess he liked the idea of Egyptians, Mongols, and Frenchmen wandering around in the same world.

It doesn't have a lot of magic either (that's another thing I could gripe about AoC's class system, but whatever). Mages are barely seen, and when they are, they can shift an entire battle. They're rare and powerful enough that even Conan is afraid of them.

They're mainly associated with gods and religion as well, so it's not always "magic" per se.

It doesn't have any fantasy races either. Like we've discussed, it's just Earth in a long forgotten age.

There's a horror element to many stories too. I'm not sure if that's Lovecraft's influence or not, since Lovecraft himself praised him: "“For stark, living fear, what other writer is even in the running with Robert E. Howard?”

[Velorath]

I understood that people still found the stories amusing.  I didn't realize it was to level where people obsess over the details like Star Trek.

I think it's partly due to the fact that it's taken so long just to get all of Howard's original, unedited work collected for various reasons.

[HaemishM]

There's a horror element to many stories too. I'm not sure if that's Lovecraft's influence or not, since Lovecraft himself praised him: "“For stark, living fear, what other writer is even in the running with Robert E. Howard?”

Howard also wrote a decent set of Cthulu Mythos stories for various publications, which I picked up as a paperback a decade ago. One of those has a modern-day story with a protagonist who dreams/relives his past life as Conan.

[stray]

Lol, that's awesome. I have to check that out.

[Bandit]

There's a horror element to many stories too. I'm not sure if that's Lovecraft's influence or not, since Lovecraft himself praised him: "“For stark, living fear, what other writer is even in the running with Robert E. Howard?”

Howard also wrote a decent set of Cthulu Mythos stories for various publications, which I picked up as a paperback a decade ago. One of those has a modern-day story with a protagonist who dreams/relives his past life as Conan.

I have read most of Howard's shit, pretty good stuff except when it gets overly strange, such as the Cthulu stuff. He was actually good friends with H.P. Lovecraft.

Conan is a bad ass character...pulls in lots of tail, shows no mercy, and just generally kicks ass.  Drizzt doesn't have 1/10 the testosterone that Conan has. 

[Margalis]

Conan is fantasy but not what modern readers would call it with elves and trolls and shit like that. It isn't generic fantasy. It is dark, gritty, more realistic and an fairly original conception.

[tazelbain]

Conan is a bad ass character...pulls in lots of tail, shows no mercy, and just generally kicks ass.  Drizzt doesn't have 1/10 the testosterone that Conan has. 

That's what turned me way from it. I hate that machismo shit.

[stray]

I wouldn't call it machismo. Howard was trying to do a study on barbarism (vs civilization) with Conan. Pulp-ish though it may be, he had more sincere aspirations with it. Conan's attitude comes more from a sense of freedom, individualism, and barbaric simplicity than it does machismo.

In the words of Conan himself:

"Let me live deep while I live; let me know the rich juices of red meat and stinging wine on my palate, the hot embrace of white arms, the mad exultations of battle when the blue blades flame and crimson, and I am content. Let teachers and priests and philosophers brood over questions of reality and illusion. I know this: if life is an illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me. I live, I burn with life, I love, I slay, and am content."

Also, there aren't as many scantily clad women as you may be lead on to believe. Some of his best stories have none. Others have very strong female characters (Queen of the Black Coast).

Howard also created the original Red Sonja as well, if that matters.

Howard himself was a rough individual though. He was a boxer before he wrote full time. So he did have some kind of insight into violence and "machismo" attitude more than the average writer, I guess.