(UO expansion) You'll all scoff, but I'm still going to jizz.

[eldaec]

That is kind of cool, actually. Did the frigid cold kill mongbats instantly?

It didn't kill flowers, so probably not.

I heard it did kill the flowers, but only on pre-Trammel servers.

[sinij]

This is my New Years present to WUA, a free bump for his pet thread.

[MarkJacobs]

Folks,

   Just so you know, the UO guys are doing a really great job on all the new stuff.  We're really pleased with their progress to date.  I can't answer any questions about it but since you guys have showed interest, I thought I'd pass that on.

Mark

[WindupAtheist]

Since you can't answer questions, I won't ask any.  I'll just tell you what I hope you do, since you're here.

1)  Enact a sort of Station Pass deal.  I consider this a foregone conclusion because I'm assuming that you guys aren't idiots, but one can never be too sure.  I'm not about to pay another fifteen dollars or whatever to play DAoC or even WAR, but if I can get all three for a modest increase to what I'm already paying for UO, you'll probably keep me paying that moderately higher fee forever.

2)  Do your best to exterminate RMT from UO.  I know efforts like this are never totally successful, but go at it anyway.  It's gone totally unchecked for years and it makes life way too easy for the professional eBay assholes who are so prone to exploting.

3)  Give Sinij and friends their retro-shard.  Lots of people seem to want one, you did something similar for DAoC, and it doesn't hurt anything to try.

[Cheddar]

Since you can't answer questions, I won't ask any.  I'll just tell you what I hope you do, since you're here.

1)  Enact a sort of Station Pass deal.  I consider this a foregone conclusion because I'm assuming that you guys aren't idiots, but one can never be too sure.  I'm not about to pay another fifteen dollars or whatever to play DAoC or even WAR, but if I can get all three for a modest increase to what I'm already paying for UO, you'll probably keep me paying that moderately higher fee forever.

YES.  I would suggest doing what NCSoft currently does (as far as format).  They have SOE beat hands down as far as ease of getting back into their games; I for one would love to see a similiar set up but filled with a better stable of games. 

I buy all my NCsoft games via the intardnet.  When (if) I get a hankering for something it is extremely easy to DL it, resub, and hop in.  Hell, it would be sweet to see EA allow some sorta merger system with NCSofts current setup; charge 40USD or so a month to play any NCSoft game or EA MMO.   I bet it would make oodles of cash!

2)  Do your best to exterminate RMT from UO.  I know efforts like this are never totally successful, but go at it anyway.  It's gone totally unchecked for years and it makes life way too easy for the professional eBay assholes who are so prone to exploting.

I have mixed feelings about RMT.  I do use it; it is a wonderful way for me to play a system that I would not normally be able to play due to time constraints and whatnot.  As Lum says, its all in the design.  I never RMT'd for EQ2, AC or WoW.  I have probably for every other game (and that is a LOT of games).

3)  Give Sinij and friends their retro-shard.  Lots of people seem to want one, you did something similar for DAoC, and it doesn't hurt anything to try.

Yes.  And do not use silly mechanics to slow down gain.  Siege Perilous was my main reason for hopping into UO last year, and the stupid fucking limited gains per day caused me and my 2 buddies to quit after a couple weeks.

My 2 cents, SirBruce style.

[WayAbvPar]

Folks,

   Just so you know, the UO guys are doing a really great job on all the new stuff.  We're really pleased with their progress to date.  I can't answer any questions about it but since you guys have showed interest, I thought I'd pass that on.

Mark

Nice to see you got your 1 post for the year out of the way early, Mark  :-D

We are all ears whenever you have more to tell us.

[MarkJacobs]

WindupAtheist,

   As to a Station Pass, I may mixed feelings on this one.  On one hand, I think that it is good because it can save people some $$$$ and can encourage people to try another game.  OTOH, I think that it is bad because it might "leave money on the table" and that money, especially in the case of a new game, will need to be made up somewhere.  As a long-standing opponent of RMT in most MMORPGs, the last thing I want to do is have to find additional sources of revenue from the players to cover the huge cost of developing a AAA MMORPG.  I also think that in the case of games based on licensed IP, that having a All-Access Pass can lead to lots of complications and hurt feelings.  Back in the Gamestorm days, that situation came up a bunch and while it was always resolved, it was tricky at times.  And I'm left to wonder if things would have worked out so well if the amounts that we were talking about were based on today's MMORPG sub-rates and not the comparative handfuls of people who were playing back then.  I also find the math of it amusing such as "We have 1M monthly subs on our system, 400K are playing Game 1, 400K are playing Game 2 and 500K are playing Game 3.  We rock!"  Every time I hear that I have a weird flashback to Reganomics.  :)

    As far as a retro-shard, we'll focus on getting the new stuff working well first and then we could look at other possibilities.  I'm all for different rulesets for games if demand is there as DAoC has certainly proved but now is too soon to even consider it.

WayAbvPar,

   Hehe.  I'll never post anywhere globally near as much as I did back in the pre-DAoC launch days but I've certainly posted more in the last year than I have in a while.  Lack of time and the TDJ (Tom, Dick and Jerky) factor have been a deterrent for me as were the death threats (even called the Feds in once) and general level of abuse once certain people (EDITED: and I don't mean anyone on F13 just to be clear) saw where I was posting and then followed to ladle on more nonsense.

Mark

Mark

[WindupAtheist]

The question is, how many people are there who will pay... say... two $15 subscriptions for two of your games?  Yeah, you're losing a few bucks if you sell those guys access to the whole roster for a package deal of $20 or $25.

On the other hand, what about the guy who comes in specifically to play WAR, and gets a little burned-out after a few months?  Do you want him taking his $15 to Blizzard or Sony?  Or do you want him increasing his payments to you by $5 or $10 so he can dabble in DAoC/UO/TSO (or whatever else) while still keeping his WAR account open so he can occasionally drop in to check on his guild and the latest patch?

People are going to float between games, so give them a reason to stay under your tent when they do it.  At least that's what seems sensible to me, although I don't have access to any relevant subscription figures, so maybe you know better.

And I know you want to rout out the RMT from UO.  I also suspect you're not sure whether it's a good idea, given how long it's been running unchecked.  Well I play the game, I see it from the inside, and I say go for it.

[Arthur_Parker]

3)  Give Sinij and friends their retro-shard.  Lots of people seem to want one, you did something similar for DAoC, and it doesn't hurt anything to try.

I'm not sure I could handle the graphics in UO after such a long time but a reto-shard sure is tempting.

[WindupAtheist]

Go look at the first page!  They're adding slightly-less-outdated graphics soon!  ZOMG!

[sinij]

The worst thing they could do for a retro shard is to add ROT or some other rule that would prevent people from jumping in and competing in shortest possible time. I'd say let people start with 2 skills at 60, one at 80 and 150 in stats, so even brand new characters are somewhat capable of fighting back. It should still be 7GM cap, but maybe create separate cap for non-combat skills and limit to 1 character per account.

Another challenge will be deciding what to bring over and what to leave behind. I see no reason not to bring over customized housing or anything crafting/interface related. Whole item system with resist, luck and such should be abandoned. New skills, like necromancy, chivalry, should be left behind. On other hand I don't see a problem brining over controllable combat moves or leather armor for mages, but it is a significant deviation from classical rules. Skill scrolls should be limited to +10 or removed altogether, there should be no +stat scrolls. Item insurance must go, there shouldn't be a way to bless any equipment aside from your clothing.
 

[WindupAtheist]

One thing I don't like in modern UO is the "suit building" process.  Gotta find the right artifacts with the right mods, then find other pieces to build around those to come up with a balanced set of properties.  Change one piece and you may well have to change every other piece to compensate.  I miss being able to do this:

Me:  "Light archer suit please."
Smith:  "Ok, what type of ore?"
Me:  "Shadow iron.  How much?"
Smith:  "Say 5k.  Want any weapons with that?"
Me:  "Sure, a war axe and a mace."
Smith:  "Okay."

Bam, fucking done.

[Cheddar]

One thing I don't like in modern UO is the "suit building" process.  Gotta find the right artifacts with the right mods, then find other pieces to build around those to come up with a balanced set of properties.  Change one piece and you may well have to change every other piece to compensate.  I miss being able to do this:

Me:  "Light archer suit please."
Smith:  "Ok, what type of ore?"
Me:  "Shadow iron.  How much?"
Smith:  "Say 5k.  Want any weapons with that?"
Me:  "Sure, a war axe and a mace."
Smith:  "Okay."

Bam, fucking done.

Ugh, I forgot they changed the armor so drastically.  Skill based game turned item centric?  Not sure if a new interface and pretty shiny will be enough to draw me back in.  Mark, I beg of you, grab a spare server and throw up a classic shard. 

Me love you long time?

[Riggswolfe]

Why are people still talking about UO like it matters? The game was sucktastic shit when it launched and it still is, the only difference is it was sucktastic because of PKs at launch, now it's sucktastic because of the total destruction of the Ultima brand this game represents.

Jesus, Diablo has better graphics and gameplay than UO.

[Nebu]

Early UO had a tension to it that you just couldn't find in any other game.  I think that's why so many people romanticize it.  I have fond memories of the game myself, but so little had to do with graphics or actual mechanics... it was more the intangibles.

[WayAbvPar]

Early UO had a tension to it that you just couldn't find in any other game.  I think that's why so many people romanticize it.  I have fond memories of the game myself, but so little had to do with graphics or actual mechanics... it was more the intangibles.

Eve has some of the same feeling- no telling who is your friend and who isn't 90% of the time. I have found that I crave that feeling in games...pure PvE makes me stabby now.

[Shapechanger]

My worry about stepping into something like UO is, man, that game is OLD.  The players would be so far and away advanced.  I don't like to have to do a massive grind to get up to speed.  It's the downside to MMO age, I guess.

As for the pass - it'd interest me.  Because 1 MMO is my limit.  Who has time for 2 anyways?  Maybe some people but their opinions can't be worth much if their lives are that unsucessful. 

But for a few bucks more I could dabble in another.


It's also interesting... how doyou slice up that pie in a pass?  Specially with EA managers monkeying with it.  And Warhammer has a Gamesworkshop license.  Wouldn't be worth stepping on toes when you have a good thing going.

[Falconeer]

Early UO had a tension to it that you just couldn't find in any other game.  I think that's why so many people romanticize it.  I have fond memories of the game myself, but so little had to do with graphics or actual mechanics... it was more the intangibles.

Eve has some of the same feeling- no telling who is your friend and who isn't 90% of the time. I have found that I crave that feeling in games...pure PvE makes me stabby now.

I have to quote the both of you, great and precious summarizations. 
Actually, it's hard to believe we still have to explain UO to people. After all these years, I think there are just three options:

a) you were there
b) you did your homeworks, and know what the adults are talking about when they say words like "UO" or "PVP"
c) you suck

[Slyfeind]

Why are people still talking about UO like it matters? The game was sucktastic shit when it launched and it still is, the only difference is it was sucktastic because of PKs at launch, now it's sucktastic because of the total destruction of the Ultima brand this game represents. Jesus, Diablo has better graphics and gameplay than UO.

Some of us liked it. *shrug* That's the only way to explain it. Some of us thought it was fun.

Show me someone who likes Texas Hold 'Em and I'll be glad to point out their faults, because I think Texas Hold 'Em sucks. That doesn't stop other people from liking it.

[Azaroth]

Holy shit. I like Texas Hold 'Em *and* UO.

I just won't play poker online, and won't play UO offline. I suppose that's the only thing that saves me from being a complete loser.

Then again, once your days consist of PartyPoker.com and yelling "Lightning Bolt!" at people dressed in green hosiery and running around in a corn field, I don't think you give a shit about what anyone thinks of you.

[Azaroth]

As far as a retro shard, I'm still trying to get someone to talk to me about that.

*Eyes Mark up and down*

[sinij]

I think looking closely at Redemption as a starting point for classic server is a good idea.

[Cheddar]

As far as a retro shard, I'm still trying to get someone to talk to me about that.

*Eyes Mark up and down*

Mark Jacobs seems open to ideas.  If we have a sekret forum for anything (as far as new ones), and if he was serious about implementing this, and they were open to ideas, I believe this would have the most benefit currently.  At least until we weasel our way into WHO.

[Azaroth]

It indeed would be a fantastic starting point for a classic server, being that it was a TOTAL IPY ripoff.



And I can only say that because the people who ran it are my very very good friends, and the head admin is my best friend in the world :P

She actually started it up because she felt worse about me shutting down IPY than I did :P

It was definitely a good shard though. There's a lot to be said for having an infinitely level-headed person at the reigns (although I'd dispute that on a personal level sometimes  :-D). Plus, having a sexy little British firecracker at the head of any shard is probably always a good idea.

Ooh I hope she sees this and I get some brownie points.

[MarkJacobs]

Folks,

1) I am serious as well as open to ideas.  I'm still open to a private forum here if that comes about.

2) In terms of a classic server or new rulesets for UO, a lot will depend on how things go in the next few months.  I can't and won't promise that we will do new rulesets till I see that the new client is working well as we hope it will.  I'm the ultimate skeptic so as always, I'll believe it when I see it.

3) Azaroth, I replied to your email so you can stop eying me, especially up and down. :)

4) UO is indeed an old game but it is still going strong and I believe it still has some life left in her yet.  EA is backing up this belief and if all goes well, I hope we can do more with the game over time.  I'd love to see UO continue its run into the next decade and longer if the community supports it.

Mark

[Endie]

MJ Posts.  It is now only a matter of time before HRose turns up and claims that he wrote an article on the Cesspit which pre-empted the UO design docs by 18 months.

[Azaroth]

Yeah. I think I missed the "private forum" discussion.

[Dren]

My problem with ever coming back to UO is that I'm finding it hard enough to play my main MMO (WoW) along with several other side games that I can start and stop (GW, Mark of Chaos, Gamecube games.)  Also, I have a few Beta's burning too.  UO is not a game that you can pick and put down when you want.  Out of any of the games I've played since UO's launch, UO has been the most social-centric.  It wasn't about the game mechanics necessarily, but about the guild relationship, the adversary relationship, etc.  You can't keep that part of the game strong unless you are there pretty much every night.

When I played UO strong it was like that and had the best "feel" of all the games I've played.  When I started taking breaks and playing it more casually, it lost its shine.  Newer games have much better mechanics for that type of play, so why bother.  I can play solo 90% of the time in WoW and it fits that game.   The guild interaction in WoW is a chatroom, so persistent play isn't near as important as in the past.

It may have been a small thing, but being able to see each other represented as small avatars standing next to each other while you discussed things was important.  It provided just enough connection to your character that it felt like you were amongst friends or enemies more than usual in other games.  It is hard to describe.

Either way, due to my age and responsibilities these days, I can't dedicate that kind of time again, so the newer games will win out no matter what you do with UO.

[Calantus]

Gah, I was thinking that a classic shard would be a great idea, but then I realised that it would be hosted somewhere other than Australia and the idea lost its appeal.

[Cheddar]

Yeah. I think I missed the "private forum" discussion.

It got buried in the Vanguard thread under bile and crosstalk.

And Hrose.  He is very verbose.

[Azaroth]

I'm sure that'll teach me to spend more time on messageboards.

[Cheddar]

I'm sure that'll teach me to spend more time on messageboards.

At least yours got nuked.  Nothing personal, but it made my eyes bleed at times.  Yet I could not help checking it out every so often!

[Azaroth]

Yet I could not help checking it out every so often!

That's unfortunate.

[Cheddar]

WTFman.com has reopened their messageboards; too bad my e-mail is banned (or gmail is, who knows), so I cannot register.  Every so often I put on my torn dress and delve into the underbelly of gaming sites.

[sinij]

Who would have guessed that WUA UO's thread would be useful. Wonders of Intraweb.

I think main points of a classic server should be a) No Trammel b) No alts c) Classic 'drop all your loot' crafting and combat system.

So to make it simple - No Trammies, no alts and no artifacts.