07/12/2006 - The Ship Online

[Yoru]

Released via Steam today: The Ship Online. Basically an online game of Killer in the Source engine along with a few additions, such as shipboard security that needs evading and various needs (e.g. hunger, thirst, taking a dump) that must be filled.

I've not purchased it, so I have no idea what the quality's like.

[stray]

Hmm...

First glance on the website made me think it was some multiplayer adventure game.....But on closer inspection, it just looks like an FPS.

I'm almost as tired of FPS's as I am of MMOG's.

[edit]

What was "Killer" anyways?

[Yoru]

Killer, Assassin, KAOS, many names, same basic idea. Basically a convention game, LARP or running-around-in-real-life game - the basic precept is that everyone has a Target (randomly assigned) and must try to kill that target. The only people you may attempt to kill are your target and the person trying to kill you.

There's a hundred variations on the basic and extended rules, using laser tag equipment, water pistols, etc.

[stray]

Hahaha

I can't believe LARPing was brought up in an FPS thread....But fair enough.  I think I get the idea.

Anyhow, an updated version of The Last Express or some other conspiracy filled adventure caper would be nice. Too bad this isn't it.

[Yoru]

Having been in several actual LARPs, I'd hardly call Killer a LARP. It's in the fuzzy boundary between games like Tag/Capture the Flag and certain types of LARPing, like Boffer LARPs.

... wow, I sound like a massive geek now.

[schild]

That's because there's no excuse whatsoever for LARPING.

[Samwise]

I played The Ship back when it was a Half-Life 1 mod.  It was... unique.  And fun.  I think. 

If I had to sum it up in two words I'd say "Social deathmatch."  Like a cross between Quake and poker.

[Strazos]

I've always played with the idea of LARPing or other similar things...

But then I considered the other kind of people who frequent these things, and promptly dashed the thought from my mind. 

[stray]

Just con yourself into a play then. You might not gain points or levels, but the people are a lot more interesting....and sane.

[schild]

People who do theatre are in no way sane.

No one who stands up in front of people is sane. And this is coming from someone who has no problem standing up in front of people.

LARPers aren't really sane either. But, they may be more sane than theatre types. They do their silly shit in private.

[stray]

Ok....I know I'm insane. I just figured the others weren't.


How about this then?

Better props.

Surely the LARP'ers don't top the theater in that?

[schild]

?

[stray]

Nah.



Theater has real swords and shit.

[Yoru]

Yeah, but theater people don't run around hitting each other with PVC pipe covered in foam and duct tape. Schild just doesn't like fun that doesn't involve thumbsticks and trigger buttons.

[Strazos]

I'd rather go into Fencing.

[stray]

I'd rather go into Fencing.

I learned how to fence from an actor (mind you, I'm not very good. But he was). 

I'm willing to bet that the biggest group of people who know how to handle weaponry like that are actors. Especially the Shakespearean types.

[Strazos]

Stage Fighting <> Fencing.

[Yoru]

Stage Fighting <> Fencing.

Actors have hobbies too.

[stray]

Stage Fighting <> Fencing.

Yes, of course, stage fighting itself is not comparable. I'm just talking about the training. Stage fighting is a discipline in and of itself, but the people who teach it are educated beyond the stuff you see on stage. You will learn things that fencing students learn. You will be more skilled with a sword than the average faker.

[edit]

Also, I'm just suggesting it because you showed an interest for LARP. Heh. The Theater dept. at your school or some private workshop will meet both needs. And believe me, actors really are less crazy than LARP'ers. Or at the very least, they're more well read.

If you just want to learn fencing, then sure, you're better off joining a fencing class.

[Falconeer]

If I had to sum it up in two words I'd say "Social deathmatch."  Like a cross between Quake and poker.

What's not to like?
_Sounds_  great.

[Viin]

This orginization was mentioned in another thread .. sword fighting (broadswords, etc - not just fencing or rapiers) is something folks learn/teach in the SCA. I have a few books (by this guy) on it that I was using for research on a MUD combat system a few years ago, but never followed through.

Not that this has anything to do with this Source Mod...

[Yoru]

If I had to sum it up in two words I'd say "Social deathmatch."  Like a cross between Quake and poker.

What's not to like?
_Sounds_  great.

I tried it out last night. It's relatively buggy and has lag issues even at 80-100 ping. When you can find a stable server, then you need to hope you'll be playing on a map sized properly for the number of players; the game gets either ridiculously hectic on a map that's too small (which is bad since you'll get a momentum effect on the winnings) or painfully slow on a map that's too large. Then you need to hope there aren't l33t kiddies in the game running around hitting everyone with a fire axe and not caring if they hit -200,000 points or less for the random killings.

For the 60 or so minutes that I got all these conditions satisfied, I had a blast. The other 2 hours, not so much.

Another issue is that you'll really need to learn the maps well. You lose all your weapons after you get whacked and must hunt down new weapons and clothes. You generally also need to know where the depositories are so you can deposit your winnings. Knowing where to find new/obscure weapons is pretty much the key to winning - 3 or 4 kills with different high-paying weapons can win you the game.

(Basically, every time a weapon's used in a slaying, its point value hits a floor and slowly rises over time. To really rack up points, you want to have rarely-used weapons on hand and use them once, then swap to another rarely-used weapon.)

[eldaec]

Too much deatmatch, not enough social imo.

If you take quake, except you move slowly, can only hit one enemy, and only shoot in certain areas of the map (handy red/green shoot icon tells you when it is safe), that's exactly how it plays. As others have pointed out, winning is about how quickly you can move around the ship to your quarry via a weapon pickup location, not about how cunning or stealthy you can be. Being on the move is also far and away the best strategy for avoiding the player hunting you.

It's a brave try - but just doesn't quite manage to play the way the devs seemed to be trying to make it play.


In other news, Steam really doesn't suck like it used to - who'd-a-thunk?

[schild]

Steam hasn't sucked since HL2 was released.

[Samwise]

I grabbed this over the weekend... sadly, I think it's actually a step back from the free beta version in some respects.  The maps seem bigger now, which means you spend more time walking around to find your quarry and/or satisfy needs, and the weapons are much more scarce, which means you spend a LOT more time walking around looking for weapons.  The old version had a weapon of some kind in almost every room in plain view, whereas I've spent up to half an hour in the new version without finding so much as a pool cue.  I imagine this becomes less of a problem once you get to know all the maps, but I don't think the game really needed a steeper learning curve.

The radial menu interface is a pain in the ass, particularly when trying to interact with moving targets (like people) or when using objects that only have one option anyway (like the ubiquitous containers that you have to search for goodies).  It works well in Natural Selection, but it doesn't work here.  I miss the Use key.

That said, the (sadly rare) moments when you successfully bluff someone to pull off a perfect kill are just delicious.  It's a shame the game couldn't trim some of the fat to make that particular aspect of the game more prominent.

[Yoru]

Yeah, when you get into a good game, it's a lot of fun... but the technical issues and rarity of good games means I can't really recommend it unless you really love unconventional, low-action FPS.

There's also the issue of wandering around bleeding money to soothe needs, finally finding a weapon, and then turning around only to get shot in the face by your hunter. It's been more than once I've logged out of a crowded game with a grunt of 'Fuck this game!' after getting waxed many times in a row or hit by the really, really terrible witness mechanics.

You can get someone arrested simply by staring at them. Even if they're your assailant. Once I realized this, I started staring at people I suspected to be my hunter; when they drew their weapon and ran at me, I merely ran backwards. Within 3 seconds they're jailed and I'm home free. Lame. The witnessing mechanics need a severe overhaul.

[Samwise]

Again, I think they might have regressed since beta.  IIRC, the beta didn't have the timer mechanic; if you got spotted doing something illegal by anyone other than your quarry, off to the brig.  The current mechanic allows you to kill someone in front of a crowded room full of witnesses, and get off scot free as long as you holster your gun quickly.  There's much less of the "field of vision dance" that was a fair amount of the fun of the original - lining up careful shots with ranged weapons from relatively concealed locations, waiting for witnesses to turn their back on you, etc.

[Yoru]

There's also the issue of just plain lame players. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten into an 8-person Mexican standoff where no one will leave the view radius of the camera for the remainder of a round.

[Samwise]

Those can usually be dealt with by shooting them with a ranged weapon from outside the camera's field of view.  There also aren't too many secure areas with toilets in them, so if worst comes to worst you can go camp the bathroom until they have to pee.     I actually kind of like those types of situations because there's usually some moderately clever solution to them that the quarry hasn't thought of. 

I remember a round I played back in beta where my quarry was hiding out in the rather large and well-protected lounge area, being careful to make sure that there wasn't a clear shot from any of the unsecured hallways.  I finally won by going up to the top deck and sniping through the skylight - the mark never knew what hit him.   :-D  Good times.

[Yoru]

It's hard enough to find a gun. It's harder when, as soon as you step out of the camera's range, your hunter sidles up behind you and shanks you in the face with a katana. And then puts it away.

[Strazos]

Is there a way to identify your hunter....I mean, any way other than seeing them trying to kill you.

[Samwise]

Is there a way to identify your hunter....I mean, any way other than seeing them trying to kill you.

No, and therein lies the fun.   :-D  You'd think it'd be really hard to "read" someone in an FPS, but I can almost always tell when someone's planning to kill me - they'll pretend to look away, but keep stealing quick glances to make sure I'm not going anywhere.  Then all you've got to do is turn your back to them, run around a corner, and then turn back, draw a gun, and wait for them to come charging around the corner with an axe.   :-D

Of course, all that goes out the window if you're alone when you and your hunter meet for the first time  - then he just bashes your head in before you have a chance to react.   

[Samwise]

Thanks to the magic of Steam, the "witness" rules have been automagically revamped so that it's now a little harder to kill someone in front of a bunch of people and get away with it.  I haven't had a chance to play a couple games with it yet, but it sounds like an improvement.

[Yoru]

Thanks to the magic of Steam, the "witness" rules have been automagically revamped so that it's now a little harder to kill someone in front of a bunch of people and get away with it.  I haven't had a chance to play a couple games with it yet, but it sounds like an improvement.

We'll see; it was already hard enough to kill someone if it was just you and your target in your rooom, with your target staring at you. Anything less than an instant kill and you tend to get sent straight to jail. :(

[Samwise]

They also upped the "witness count" to 2.  I assume that means that you need to have two people looking at you (i.e. your victim plus someone else) before the alarms go off.

In other words, it's much harder to commit a crime in front of a room full of witnesses, and much easier to kill someone that you've managed to corner alone.