Return of the Book Thread

[lamaros]

I find most SF and Fantasy is easy to read quickly because they tend to use a limited and shared vocab, the narrative structure is often straightforward, and the themes and ideas are often repeated frequently. The same goes for a lot of genre fiction; the more familiar you are with it the quicker you're going to be able to read it due to the basic conventions. This is because your 'comprehension' of these works is assisted by your previous reading; you know how to read them in order to isolate the key points. Thus you don't have to pay attention to the rest of the book in such detail and can get through it at pace.

Reading quickly doesn't necessarily mean you miss a lot. If you have a good memory then I find you can speed read and have very good comprehension still. When it does make a bigger difference is if the text is especially dense or if you have a poor memory.

From some speed reading I've done in the past I was quite good at it. I could maintain the same comprehension rate as the next best person while reading at least 3x faster--which I think had to do with the fact I read alot and know the conventions of a wide variety of books. I didn't necessarily have faster speed of eye, I just knew which words were going to be important and skipped quickly over the text looking for them. But that the process wasn't enjoyable compared to how I read in my own time. I read to get involved with the book in some way, to try and respond to its thoughts and opinions, imagine its characters, and consider how well or poorly it has been constructed. It is possible to do this from memory after reading a book through quickly, but it does not give the same feelings and places a lot more 'stress' on your brain if you want to do a good job of it. At least for me.

The more dense the books then the longer I take to read them, often feeling so 'full' of the book after an hour or so of reading that I stop and put it away for the rest of the day and let it digest rather than force through it. I think I would be considered quite a slow reader for this reason. Thankfully I have a lot of spare time.

Of course this depends on the book and the reason I'm reading it (there is no strong correlation between the time it takes to read a book and how good it is in my experience).

[Endie]

I'd pretty much agree with what lamaros says here: being able to read very quickly is one thing.  Actually enjoying doing so, or feeling that you have fully appreciated the book in question, is quite another.  I like to savour books.

[HaemishM]

So I have a book to pimp. Sort of.

Most of you know I've written a novel that I'm trying to get published. To drum up some interest, I'm in the process of writing another novel, a prequel to the finished novel and publishing it serially on a new blog I have. The novel is called Under the Amoral Bridge. It's a sci-fi cyberpunk novel based in the setting of my unpublished novel. I'm writing it as I publish it, and plan to release a chapter once every two weeks. If you're interested, go to my blog for more info, or go directly to the Bridge blog, which is linked in my sig. Comments are appreciated (preferably there so folks who hate me pimping my shit amongst you don't get their tiny panties in a bunch). Enjoy it, it's 

[Endie]

So I have a book to pimp. Sort of.

Most of you know I've written a novel that I'm trying to get published.

I'll take a look when I get home.  Before I read it, howver, I think it's safe to suggest that you cut out a lot of the chapters that are just strings of expletives about George Bush.

[HaemishM]

Those are on my regular blog. 

[lamaros]

I might have a look, but I'm hyper-critical (esp about books) so I'll refrain from commenting if you're not wanting too serious a take on it.

[Margalis]

What are you doing with your first novel, going through an agent?

I offered before to look it over if you want. That offer doesn't expire. I'm pretty good at that sort of thing. (Editing and reading with an eye towards publication) I'm not an agent or anything like that but I do have some understanding of what they look for.

[HaemishM]

I'm currently looking for an agent who wants to represent the book, or publisher who doesn't care if I have an agent or not. Strangely enough, finding someone to give you the time of day in the publishing industry without some form of entre nous, celebrity or previous publications is really difficult.

[Sky]

I suggest throwing a big party while your parents are away.

[Endie]

I suggest throwing a big party while your parents are away.

I thought that only worked if you wanted to get into Princeton and get off with a hooker?

[Margalis]

Haem, you might want to pick up the book "The First Five Pages" if you haven't already. Gives you a good idea of what agents are looking for.

[Viin]

I was asked to give a quick summary/comment on Deadhouse Gates by Steven Erikson, so here goes:

It's a very long book (600 pages in big paperback form), but overall very good. The first half of the book is a little hohum - plods along a bit, setting up the rest of the book. Once you hit about half way through you won't be able to put it down. *Lots* of stuff comes to a head, including some more interesting things that give you insight into Ascendancy/God stuff going on in these stories.

The story actually goes away from the characters in the first book - instead you meet a few new folks and one of Paran's sisters. Fiddler and Kalam are the only characters to really play any role as characters from the first book, with the occasional Quick Ben/others popping in. Of course, some of the Ascendants/Gods from the first book also have a strong role (such as Shadowthrone) and some of the older Elder races also make an appearance.

Overall, I recommend it - but it will probably take awhile to read. If you find yourself bored about 1/4 through, just know it starts to get so much better about 1/2 through and is well worth the wait.

[Johny Cee]

(I asked Viin to post here.  I didn't want to derail the Book Club thread.)

Hmm.  I actually enjoyed the book all the way through, and didn't have a problem with the pacing of the first 1/4.  Thought the setup and pacing was perfect for building up to the climax.

Well.... besides the fact that I wanted to strangle Felisin.  Completely obnoxious character,  in the Covenant style:  whiny and self-absorbed.  I mean,  a character who had recently had both hands chopped off had to babysit and cheer her up while she was negative, complained, and attempted to keep herself stoned all the time.

The Chain of Dogs sequence is amazing to me.  Literally,  the piece of fantasy I enjoyed the most since reading the Black Company in '98 or '99.  The ending to it is foreshadowed a great deal,  but that's the way it has to end.


Started Memories of Ice yet?  It's nearly as good,  in my mind,  though many rate it above Deadhouse.  It's even more bleak.

[Viin]

Not yet, I'll pick up the next one after Canticle for Leibowitz.

I agree the whole Chain of Dogs thing was great writing, very stressful and exciting.

[lamaros]

I just finished 'Over the Edge of the World'. It was a good read, if sometimes a bit cliche in prose.

[Sky]

I've been reading a compilation of Arthur Clarke's stuff after I realized I hadn't read 2001, which is a great story. City and the Stars was really cool, too. Love the older style as a foil to all the modern scifi I'd been reading. The Deep Range was ok, but very bizarre. Starts out as a monster hunt, ends up as a moral parable about eating meat.

[Johny Cee]

Neil Gaiman is making American Gods available via the web for a limited time:

http://browseinside.harpercollins.com/index.aspx?isbn13=9780060558123&WT.mc_id=author_AmerGods_FullAccess_022208

[Johny Cee]

And for the Jim Butcher "Dresden" fans,  first 4 chapters of his latest book due out in April:

http://www.jim-butcher.com/books/dresden/10/fullpreview.php

[Murgos]

Got my Hardcover of Ian M. Banks Matter from Amazon.  Been looking forward to this for a while.

I just finished Glen Cook's The Dragon Never Sleeps, damn good space yarn.

[Reg]

Dragon Never Sleeps was great! It's always a treat when a series author like Cook does a quality singleton book like that. I get tired of having to wait and wait for the next book in the latest endless series.

[Johny Cee]

The local Borders hasn't had either The Dragon Never Sleeps or The Swordbearer here.  I would have ordered it,  but I've been procrastinating.  (And it's tax season.  Fucking 60 hour weeks.)

You guys read The Tower of Fear yet?  It's scary how topical that book is.  A foreign power has occupied a Middle Easternish city with a combination of its own troops and foreign mercenaries, a pseudo-criminal native underground with ties to a violent religious offshoot/cult, and ethnic tensions.


I'm reading Chabon's The Yiddish Policeman's Union now.  It's alt-history/"what if?" setting the tone for a noir detective novel.  WW2 ended differently,  and Israel was never established.  The emigre Jews of Europe have ended up in a Federal District set up for them in Alaska, which is now facing reversion to Alaskan territory.  The protagonist is a deeply flawed alcoholic police detective chasing the murder of a heroin addict.


Right now, I have Butcher's new novel (the above referenced preview is part of it) and Cook's latest Garrett book to look forward to.

[Sky]

Buried in home buying books.

Buying a home.


 

[murdoc]

You guys read The Tower of Fear yet?  It's scary how topical that book is.  A foreign power has occupied a Middle Easternish city with a combination of its own troops and foreign mercenaries, a pseudo-criminal native underground with ties to a violent religious offshoot/cult, and ethnic tensions.

Just started that this morning. Sooo happy to see he has a list of characters at the front of the book. That was one thing I struggled with in the 'Instrumentalities of the Night' book, who was who.

[Morat20]

Got my Hardcover of Ian M. Banks Matter from Amazon.  Been looking forward to this for a while.

Do post what you think -- I'm planning to buy it before I move to support shift (a week of nights with nothing to do but read and surf the net. If things go well).

[Abagadro]

Got my Hardcover of Ian M. Banks Matter from Amazon.  Been looking forward to this for a while.

Do post what you think -- I'm planning to buy it before I move to support shift (a week of nights with nothing to do but read and surf the net. If things go well).

I'd be interested in Murgos' take as I am about 200 pages into it and it isn't really grabbing me all that much. He has gone back to the "medieval society within the context of the greater universe/Culture" stuff that he did in Inversions, although with a bit of a different spin. So far it isn't my favorite of the Culture novels but I suppose it could turn around.

[Morat20]

I'd be interested in Murgos' take as I am about 200 pages into it and it isn't really grabbing me all that much. He has gone back to the "medieval society within the context of the greater universe/Culture" stuff that he did in Inversions, although with a bit of a different spin. So far it isn't my favorite of the Culture novels but I suppose it could turn around.

I admit Inversions was really not what I was looking for at the time, but on rereading it I liked it a lot more. I think he's honestly not sure what he wants to do with the Culture right now.

Consider Phlebas and Look to Windward really bookended the Culture -- you saw the Culture Militant (and still hedonistic) and then the fact that they were still, in ways, paying for it almost a thousand years later -- and still not perfect (witness their fuckup of an intervention). Use of Weapons and Player of Games showed them as capable of being serious bastards when they felt it was necessary, and not above fucking with societies and empires full of trillions of people. And Excessions showed that, when faced with something bigger than them, they reacted just as stupidly as everyone else. Inversions showed that, well, the Culture wasn't a monolith and their meddling wasn't always even coordinated.

I think he started out with a sort of "What happens to the dissatisified in Utopia" and morphed into "People are still people, and all power does is make your screwups more painful to everyone else".

One thing I like -- he's been pretty clear in showing that the Culture is capable of being ammoral, ruthless bastards. They'll do what they have to do for "The Greater Good" and the only check on their power is really internal dissent. What's the supposed Rule Number One of the entire galaxy? "Don't Fuck With the Culture"?

Hidden behind jokey ship names, hedonistic excess, and pacifism and tolerance is....well, it's an iron fist. They'll do what they feel is right by you -- which is generally getting you to be Culture-esque, in the whole "We're just happy space people these days, having good parties and not fucking with our neighbors' -- that's the Culture's job" sense.

I'm rather fond of the Affront, though -- obviously a real thorn in the Culture's side, to the point where some faction was looking to trigger a war just to deal with them. And I admit, the Culture's assasins are rather nifty things. I wouldn't fuck with a society that had those.

I need to reread Against a Dark Background. Not a Culture book, but really good.

[Johny Cee]

Prologue for Erickson's Toll the Hounds is up here:

http://www.malazanempire.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9621

[Arrrgh]

Orbit just started reprinting some of the old Culture novels that have been out of print.

http://www.amazon.com/Consider-Phlebas-Iain-M-Banks/dp/031600538X

http://www.amazon.com/Player-Games-Iain-M-Banks/dp/0316005401

[Rishathra]

Is there a need to read Culture novels in any particular order, or are they for the most part, separate enough works that it doesn't matter?

[Arrrgh]

You should be ok just reading this essay then diving in.

http://www.cs.bris.ac.uk/~stefan/culture.html

This review ranks them. It's been so long since I read some of them I'm not comfortable ranking them myself atm. All were good reads though.

http://www.sfsignal.com/archives/006210.html

[Morat20]

Is there a need to read Culture novels in any particular order, or are they for the most part, separate enough works that it doesn't matter?

Hmm....not really.

However, his novels span a thousand years or so, so the tech kind of changes a bit -- but he doesn't go into much detail there, just effects.

I found Player of Games to probably be the simplest of the Culture novels. Use of Weapons remains the best, but it's got a very odd narrative structure that might turn some people off. Consider Phlebas is the "first" chronologically (both in Culture history and in terms of when it was written). There's really no overlap, characters aren't reused (actually, a character from Use of Weapons shows up in the novella State of the Art, but other than that), so it's really however you want.

I tend to recommend Player of Games to start with. If you don't like it, you probably wouldn't like any of the others. If you wanted to read them "In order" it'd be Consider Phlebas, The Player of Games, Use of Weapons, Excession, Inversions, Look to Windward, Matter.

I recommend reading Excessions, Inversions, and Look to Windward as a group -- they all take place at about the same "time" chronologically, and offer three rather unflattering and contrasting views of the Culture. (Inversions from a low-tech perspective, Excession from a higher-tech than the Culture perspective, and Look to Windward from a relatively equal-tech neighbor of the Culture's perspective).

One thing about Banks, though -- the man knows how to write dark. Even his cheery sci-fi has a dank depressing side. :) His fiction is worse. It's like someone crossed British humor and clinical depression, and turned it into literature.

[Endie]

I am a big fan of Ian Banks, both on the sci-fi and the literary fiction (with/without "M") front.  But I hated Fearsum Endjinn.  Even back then there were enough sub-literates on the internet without me having to translate my books as well.

[Rishathra]

Well, I've already read Excession and Look to Windward, and thoroughly enjoyed them both, so I know that Banks is up my alley.  I was just wondering if I missed anything important or would if I continued to read "out of sequence."  I was completely unaware that there were so many more Culture novels than those two, as they are the only ones I ever see in bookstores or libraries.

[Sky]

I stalled on scifi after devouring a bunch of stuff (mostly Clarke after a long run of Modesitt). So we just got in a replacement copy of Magic of Recluce and I decided to start reading that series over again, leading up to a novel or two he's written since I first read the series.

[murdoc]

Just finished Glen Cook's 'Tower of Fear'.

Absolutely loved it.