Return of the Book Thread

[Bzalthek]

This is what happens when you have a long running series with a primary protagonist.  Eventually it gets to a point where the hero enters the realm of politics and out of the realm of lasers pew pew.  Of course, the books have consistently gotten less actiony so it's not like a surprise.

[dd0029]

Very true, but I still get to complain. 

But, it's not like he's afraid to follow other people. Honor doesn't even feature very prominently in this one.

Frankly, I just want more exploding spaceships. There don't seem to be all that many people writing about exploding spaceships lately. I can only think of one other author, Jack Campbell, writing these sorts of gratuitous exploding spaceship things.

[Abagadro]

Count to a Trillion didn't really do it for me.  Some interesting stuff but not much happens beyond "look how pseudo-scientific I can write" and "here's a bunch of stuff about game theory."

[Bzalthek]

Very true, but I still get to complain. 

But, it's not like he's afraid to follow other people. Honor doesn't even feature very prominently in this one.

Frankly, I just want more exploding spaceships. There don't seem to be all that many people writing about exploding spaceships lately. I can only think of one other author, Jack Campbell, writing these sorts of gratuitous exploding spaceship things.

Peter F. Hamilton and C.J. Cherryh.  I don't know about gratuitous, but shit does explode and they both have some good space faring books.

[Morat20]

When I think of "Young Adult" novels, I think of Judy Blume. 

]
Can be. Just because it's "young adult" doesn't mean it's bad. It's just either written about or geared towards non-adults -- which can be anything from fifth graders to high schoolers.

Offhand, in terms of worth reading -- Cooper's Dark is Rising series and Alexander's Pyrdain novels spring to mind. I think genuine crossover novels -- ones that speak to adults and kids (or teens) alike is harder, but writing any genre with crossover appeal is a pain I'd imagine.

Just finished PC Hodgell's Honor's Paradox -- I read her novel God Stalk something like, I dunno, twenty years ago at least? Then her stuff was out of print, and finally Baen got them -- so I've read the whole series now. (Baen's e-library and digital store is awesome.)

[Salamok]

Very true, but I still get to complain.  

But, it's not like he's afraid to follow other people. Honor doesn't even feature very prominently in this one.

Frankly, I just want more exploding spaceships. There don't seem to be all that many people writing about exploding spaceships lately. I can only think of one other author, Jack Campbell, writing these sorts of gratuitous exploding spaceship things.

Peter F. Hamilton and C.J. Cherryh.  I don't know about gratuitous, but shit does explode and they both have some good space faring books.

Modesitt does a pretty good job at space opera and most of his sci-fi stuff has exploding spaceships. Apparently James Bond as a terrorist in space is pretty much the only protagonist he is capable of creating, so if you like the idea of that then you will probably like all of his stuff.

[bhodi]

Parafaith War + Ethos Effect is one of my favorite series of his (the first book is better than the second) and the protagonist isn't James Bond in space.

I need to check out some others; are you talking about the Ghost series or the Forever Hero? Anyone read them?

[Sky]

I'm tired of the word terrorist in books. Reading a star wars book from 2001 and it's terrorist this and terrorist that, Qui-Gon vs the terrorists. Oh, shut the fuck up already. Be a good author and create an antagonist that isn't a one-dimensional buzzword.

[Ironwood]

If we don't right about them, they win.

[Salamok]

Parafaith War + Ethos Effect is one of my favorite series of his (the first book is better than the second) and the protagonist isn't James Bond in space.

I need to check out some others; are you talking about the Ghost series or the Forever Hero? Anyone read them?

The Forever Hero series is my personal favorite.  Not James Bond in space, James Bond on a Jihad in Space, there is a difference.

I'm tired of the word terrorist in books. Reading a star wars book from 2001 and it's terrorist this and terrorist that, Qui-Gon vs the terrorists. Oh, shut the fuck up already. Be a good author and create an antagonist that isn't a one-dimensional buzzword.

It's the hero, Modesitt never uses the word terrorist but he does often put forth the scenario of maximum damage with minimum resources (many a suicide bomber approach sans/suicide).  Main character sacrificing self to reluctantly do maximum damage the enemy is pretty much a theme in most of his works.

edit - Maybe James Bond wasn't the best comparison.  Just use it in the sense that his characters tend to be these super-agent types that are masters of all situations.

edit2 - Another viewpoint that seems to be present in many of his works is the lack of regard for civilian casualties.

[Morat20]

He does seem hung up on the morality of it -- and it's not like a ripped from the headlines sort of way, he's been hung up on that particular question for decades.

Kinda a pragmatic warfare model miixed with ethical questions -- if you can end a war with a fraction of the (eventual) casualties, but it requires killing a fuckton of civilians -- is it right to do so? Is it ethical? Hell, do you -- as someone capable of making that choice -- have a moral duty to off all those civilians to stop the war?

Kinda the old "There's a train coming and it's currently going to crash into another train, killing a dozen people. You can throw a switch, and the train will then crash into a car with only three people on board. What is your moral duty?" but, you know, in space.

His protaganists DO tend to be military or ex military, often former special forces types, and generally very well educated in history, economics, culture or something similiar that puts him or her in a position to understand AND act on a morally complex issue.

[Margalis]

I'm tired of the word terrorist in books. Reading a star wars book from 2001 and it's terrorist this and terrorist that, Qui-Gon vs the terrorists. Oh, shut the fuck up already. Be a good author...

Good authors don't write Star Wars books. (Or IP-based sci-fi/fantasy stuff in general) That's less a snide remark about Star Wars and more an observation on the dismal state of science fiction shelves dominated by IP-based shovelware. At best you are reading these things as a guilty pleasure I assume, not because you genuinely expect good fiction.

[Johny Cee]

I'm tired of the word terrorist in books. Reading a star wars book from 2001 and it's terrorist this and terrorist that, Qui-Gon vs the terrorists. Oh, shut the fuck up already. Be a good author...

Good authors don't write Star Wars books. (Or IP-based sci-fi/fantasy stuff in general) That's less a snide remark about Star Wars and more an observation on the dismal state of science fiction shelves dominated by IP-based shovelware. At best you are reading these things as a guilty pleasure I assume, not because you genuinely expect good fiction.

While yeah, most IP writers are hacks, good authors do actually write IP based fiction… especially critically beloved but commercially scraping by authors.  It’s a way for mid-listers to not have to quit writing and get a day job.  Jeff Vandermeer wrote a Predators tie-in and Michael Moorcock wrote a Dr. Who novel as two good examples.

[RhyssaFireheart]

So I was checking out my bookshelves for something to read in between the ACD Sherlock marathon, and found Larry Niven's Destiny Road there.  I usually reread books when I get to the point where I pick a book up and can't immediately remember everything that happens in the book, which fit the Niven one.  Looking at the book itself though, the spine was perfect and the cover looked pristine, which isn't all the unusual for me (I take care of my books pretty well), so start reading.  Now I'm halfway through the book and realize - I've never read this.  For some reason, I bought a book and put it on my shelves and never read it.  Still, now enjoying the book quite a bit because Niven does some nice world building, IMO.  I'll reread Integral Trees next and it's sequel (name's escaping me atm).

[Sky]

It's the hero, Modesitt never uses the word terrorist but he does often put forth the scenario of maximum damage with minimum resources (many a suicide bomber approach sans/suicide).  Main character sacrificing self to reluctantly do maximum damage the enemy is pretty much a theme in most of his works.

He did run off the rails with his thinly-veiled politics with one book, a standalone I can't remember the name of, something short like Halo or something (not the video game IP). Only Modesitt I didn't finish.

RF - I've got so much stuff on the shelves I haven't read. I blame working at a library. I even have most of Jordan's books. I don't know why, I'm not going to read it. I need to weed my collection!

Marg - I agree about the IP shovelware, especially SW. Some of it has decent action, though, and that's what I read it for. I'm not looking for thought-provoking fiction, just a quick escapism thing I can pick up in 15-minute chunks. One reason I've read so much Modesitt, he excels at it (if you like his theme, which is pretty much the same in every book). Zahn's stuff is definitely worth reading, and there are a few Old Republic novels I enjoyed, Red Harvest, Fatal Alliance, Karpyshyn's Bane trilogy, even Red Harvest was decent.

[ghost]

So I'm about halfway into Eye of the World as a re-read.  I last read it when I was in college, I think, or just out of college.  I don't remember it being this amateurish.  But I've slept a lot since then, and read a lot of very well written books.   

[Salamok]

Speaking of hacks, anyone know if the Devin Skraelin character in Reamde was purposefully based on R. A. Salvatore or did Stephenson just have a happy accident there?

[Bzalthek]

Heh, you got that feeling too? 

[bhodi]

It had to have been, or at least that type of personality. I felt it too. Just like Donald Cameron was Robert Jordan. I had the pleasure of chatting with him, once, at a small book signing near his prime, and he was EXACTLY like in the book.

[Salamok]

It was actually kind of freaky, while I was reading the book Salvatore did an AMA to promote Kingdoms of Amalur on reddit that quickly descended into a fanbois orgy, the parallels to what was going on in Reamde were uncanny. 

Someone else on reddit comments that Stephenson says that both authors in the book are parodies of himself at different extremes.

I was just at a signing for Reamde last night and this question came up. Stephenson said that both authors are a sort of self-parody of his extremes. He thinks of the two as his angel and devil on either shoulder.

[Hammond]

So thanks to some suggestions here I picked up the P.I Garret series by Glen Cook.  The series was good enough that I read through all 13 books.  Overall the series was a decent read with no real surprises.  The last book seems like it could finish the series off except for a couple small threads.

Some of the books were not sold in the kindle format so I had to do a mix of used books, new and kindle to get the series. Be aware of that if you go out to find them.

[Rendakor]

Finished Lord of Chaos last night and started A Crown of Swords. It's a shame too because Dumai's Wells is the last awesome scene I remember from last time I read WoT. Hopefully Sanderson's are better than the last few of Jordan's.

[lamaros]

Anyone read Umberto Eco's The Prague Cemetery?  I'm half way through, but it is kicking my ass.  The combo of unreliable narrator structure and in depth setting in the Italian unification without a lot of explanation is making it hard for me to get through it. Wondering if anyone else has read it and what they thought.

I've been reading this the past few days. Really enjoying it so far but not even 1/4 of the way through. I enjoy Ecos sense of humor.

[SurfD]

Finished Lord of Chaos last night and started A Crown of Swords. It's a shame too because Dumai's Wells is the last awesome scene I remember from last time I read WoT. Hopefully Sanderson's are better than the last few of Jordan's.

Sanderson's scene in the White Tower with Egwene when shit hits the fan is easily on par with, if not superior to Dumai's wells.  I actually went back and re-read that chapter twice.  Once immedately after the chapter had finished, just to make sure that all that awesome actually happened, and once after I finished the book, just because it was too hard to pass up.

[SurfD]

So, finished up the latest David Weber Honor Harrington book, Rising Thunder. Wtf happened to the exploding spaceships? We had exactly two bits of space ships possibly trying to blow each other up. One finished with a "thrilling" "Tada! We didn't!" and the other happened completely off screen. The rest of the book was the meeting minutes of Snidley Whiplash and Dudley Do-Right topped off with a pretty, pretty princess wedding. Hell, we didn't even get very many gee-whiz spacegun infodumps. Where are my goddamned exploding spaceships?

If you want exploding spaceships, you could try Webers "Out of the Dark".  Just be prepared for it to go totally M N Shyamalan on you in the last chapter for a complete WTF twist ending (which in typical Shyamalan style, you can pretty much see coming by about 1/3 of the way through the book).

[Merusk]

Finished Lord of Chaos last night and started A Crown of Swords. It's a shame too because Dumai's Wells is the last awesome scene I remember from last time I read WoT. Hopefully Sanderson's are better than the last few of Jordan's.

Sanderson's scene in the White Tower with Egwene when shit hits the fan is easily on par with, if not superior to Dumai's wells.  I actually went back and re-read that chapter twice.  Once immedately after the chapter had finished, just to make sure that all that awesome actually happened, and once after I finished the book, just because it was too hard to pass up.

The awesomeness of DW was partly the scene and partly the very tight writing.  Jordan was able to paint the entire battle so vividly in so few words it makes you wonder where the skill was in the rest of the text.   Sanderson's Tower Battle, while great for the scene (which is Jordan's idea and outline if not the flow of the whole scene.) lacked the tightness of the writing. 

Not that it wasn't good, but it still doesn't approach the level of that scene and the Rahvin fight of Fires of Heaven, IMO.

[SurfD]

Yeah.  It sucks, but as decent a job as Sanderson has done so far working off of Jordans notes, we will always be left wondering exactly how those scenes would have turned out if Jordan had been allowed to finish the series himself.

[Chimpy]

...we will always be left wondering exactly how those scenes would have turned out if Jordan had been allowed to finish the series himself.

It would have been 300 more pages per volume, and almost all would have been dedicated to hair pulling and spanking.

[Sky]

Almost done with Cloak of Deception by James Luceno. It's set just before Episode 1, the novel I mentioned with the over-use of 'terrorist' and one-dimensional characters. Also, fairly rote action scenes.

Setting that aside, it's close to being a really good novel from a plot perspective. If he had tweaked a couple (admittedly major) plot points. But it came close enough to have been an interesting read from the perspective of Palpatine's machinations prior to Empire, and I feel it opened a window to how great a series of books on the subject would be. Definitely better than the slight hints given in the prequels (I found Palpatine to be one of the high points of those).

Guest appearance by Tarkin with some hammy foreshadowing, but again, the idea for more interesting plots involving a younger pre-Imperial Tarkin maneuvering politically tantalizes.

[dd0029]

So, dumpster diving in the Kindle self published area frequently finds the expected, but on occasion I run across surprisingly good ones. In this case the terribly titled Demonspawn by Glenn Bullion. I'm not sure what made this quite so good what with its' kind of dull story and mary sueish main character, but its was pleasantly entertaining. It's a light and breezy story about a boy who finds out he's a demon, complete with on call wings, scary face and demon army. Things build slowly from a five year old confronting a bully upto a Peter Parker lets experiment with being a demon and then it kind of takes off to crazy town all in good fun. A surprisingly rewarded impulse buy.

[Sheepherder]

Finished Lord of Chaos last night and started A Crown of Swords. It's a shame too because Dumai's Wells is the last awesome scene I remember from last time I read WoT. Hopefully Sanderson's are better than the last few of Jordan's.

Jordan's last book is actually pretty good.

[MahrinSkel]

So, finished up the latest David Weber Honor Harrington book, Rising Thunder. Wtf happened to the exploding spaceships? We had exactly two bits of space ships possibly trying to blow each other up. One finished with a "thrilling" "Tada! We didn't!" and the other happened completely off screen. The rest of the book was the meeting minutes of Snidley Whiplash and Dudley Do-Right topped off with a pretty, pretty princess wedding. Hell, we didn't even get very many gee-whiz spacegun infodumps. Where are my goddamned exploding spaceships?

Just finished this myself.  My impression, especially given that it is much shorter than the Honor books have been running, is that it is the first half of a book that got too long and the publisher made him split into two chunks.

I think he might be getting a bit tired of writing about battles where technological surprise yields a total curbstomping, as well, but is trapped into it because of how he's set things up.

--Dave

[dd0029]

I was reading something about it and someone mentioned that he split the "story" in half because the next events occur in one of those Eric Flint Honor books.

[Morat20]

So, finished up the latest David Weber Honor Harrington book, Rising Thunder. Wtf happened to the exploding spaceships? We had exactly two bits of space ships possibly trying to blow each other up. One finished with a "thrilling" "Tada! We didn't!" and the other happened completely off screen. The rest of the book was the meeting minutes of Snidley Whiplash and Dudley Do-Right topped off with a pretty, pretty princess wedding. Hell, we didn't even get very many gee-whiz spacegun infodumps. Where are my goddamned exploding spaceships?

Just finished this myself.  My impression, especially given that it is much shorter than the Honor books have been running, is that it is the first half of a book that got too long and the publisher made him split into two chunks.

I think he might be getting a bit tired of writing about battles where technological surprise yields a total curbstomping, as well, but is trapped into it because of how he's set things up.

--Dave

I think one of the books had an afterword that talked about how, basically, Eric Flint fucked up his timeline. Honor was supposed to go out, Nelson-style, in the Battle of Manticore (At all Costs was the book, I believe). You know, death in victory?

Then there'd be a twenty year time-skip, and her kids (her and her hubby's other wife) would end up getting embroiled in a new war, the big Mesan thing that's going on now. One was going to be intelligence/black ops sort, the other a naval commander like Honor.

Only Flint decided to bring in the Mesan stuff, and it hosed his vague timeline, so now he's shoving Honor out (into politics/major fleet command at Home), and splitting the universe into a couple of tracks -- one focused on the Saganami stuff (Talbott Cluster or something?), one on the big Solarian war (I guess they represent Spain to Manticore's England), and another that's doing the black-ops/intel stuff through the slave rebellion guys and that Flint character.

But yeah, he laid it out pretty well in the last book -- leading to a weird political war, trying to convince everyone the Mesans are bad guys, the Mesans fragmenting the Solarians per their own plan, Manticore fragmenting the Solarians just to survive while fighting the Mesans, and Victor Cachet wandering around playing Marty Stu.

[Khaldun]

I've probably said it before, but holy fuck do I hate the Honor Harrington books. You want to write Napoleonic sea battles, then *write them*. I can't stand SF that's absolutely nothing more than existing stories or events with pew-pew reskinning. Plus Harrington herself makes uber-competent, uber-perfect protagonists from any other series you care to name look like Thomas Covenant by comparison. If Weber actually read anything about Admiral Lord Nelson besides masturbatory nationalist caricature he'd realize that Nelson was a messy, complicated and not at all plaster-saintly 'hero', and Nelson with tits would by the same measure be about 10,000 times more interesting than Honor Harrington.  Horatio Hornblower, granted, is just as boring a character as Honor is, but that's hardly an excuse, any more than it would be to take Buck McSquarejaw of the Canadian Mounties and give him breasts, a laser gun and a robot malamute and pretend you'd just done something cool.