Red Moon Rising newbie experience (old)

[Roac]

The tutorial is no fun, but Eve is fairly complex and has a steep learning curve which the tutorial helps you get over.

[Yegolev]

It's not broken, my newbie friend Darcrift went through it and eventually finished up Worlds Collide.

I went through the tutorial twice, the second time was months later.  I picked up on several things I had forgotten or didn't really understand due to inexperience.  Now there's a handy button that makes Aura talk again, but I have not pressed it.

Could be that your friend sold his implant on the cheap.  The market tutorial might as well not even exist; I think most people just unload their stuff ASAP, which experienced players take advantage of.

[damijin]

Could be that your friend sold his implant on the cheap.  The market tutorial might as well not even exist; I think most people just unload their stuff ASAP, which experienced players take advantage of.

Certainly a possibility.

but everyone knows EVE is a game where you "make your own fun" moreso than most other MMOs... so... I could really care less about "learning" the game or becomming optimally strong in optimally short period of time. I learned as much of the UI as I need to function, and now I just fly around and do stuff. Try to make a little bit of money, whatever. If that bores me, I'll figure something else out.

In my opinion, so far, the tutorial is the worst thing that the game has going for it.

Edit: Even the name, tutorial sounds unfun. When I think tutorial I think of learning how to use Adobe products or your first forray into making a counter-strike map. I actually find the new trend SOE has done with their EQ1 and EQ2 trials that involves a fully independent map with it's own little story for getting people interested in the game. I'd be far more impressed by a trial in a relatively small section of space that lets players take part in a brief, yet epic story narratively speaking. If they enjoy that, then step them up into the real game.

[Calantus]

I didn't really have a problem with the tutorial. But then I don't recall it taking long at all. On reflection of how long it takes to get places and do things it must have taken me quite a while, but I didn't notice at the time. :P

Right now I'm doing learning skills and they are sucking the fun right out of the game. I don't improve at ALL and it takes days to learn these skills that do nothing when they're done. So right now I'm only logging in to change skills. Will get back to actually playing when I get back to learning skills that, like, do shit. I could put them off of course but I feel I've played enough of the game to know I'd be happy to play for long enough for the learnings to pay off and there's no time like the present.

On the subject of the implant, I haven't gotten World's Collide yet, but then I moved to a higher rated agent a few systems over once I had the rep. I DID get another quest that totally raped my frigate in an obscene fashion, but its reward was an implant (which I got by using a cruiser a few days later).

[Roac]

The best strategic move is to train all your learning skills first, then move on to other things.  It's also the least fun.  I'd suggest a mix of learning stuffs and other stuffs (ship/weapon mostly) to open up a little more gameplay opportunity.  There's not much need to invest in the high level learning skills (lv5) until you're ready to also train the advanced learning skills and reap the benefit of +3/4 points in a stat (for example, you're ready to train something that will take 5 days to complete).  Getting +1 doesn't make a big difference, and the advanced skillbooks are expensive enough to put off 'til then anyway.

[Morat20]

Speaking of getting started -- I finally (after a length of subscribed time that would shock you) have gotten around to moving to cruisers. I picked up and insured my shiny new Vexxor yesterday.

Currently, it's outfitted with "What I had on hand, seeing as how I'm a bit broke now". I think quad 150mm railguns (thorium ammo -- I think I might switch to anti-matter, though -- I suspect I'll be fighting a lot closer up with a Vexxor). I've got a fairly small shield booster and armor repairer on now, as well as damage control. I've got one open hi-slot -- probably for a cap-drainer when I bother training the skill.

I've packed it full of Hobgoblins (I have Drone Interfacing at 5/5, and most of the drone skills at 3/5 or better). Obviously as a Gallente, I'm going for the drone swarm. I've got two or three waves of Hobgoblins in there now -- no mediums yet.

I haven't started the L2 missions, but I'm wondering if there's any advice for ship fitting -- do I need to make room for stabs, do I need to move to medium hybrids and pack a painter, or what?

[Reg]

It's worth moving to medium guns. I always used long range ammo and let my drones handle the stuff that got too close to hit. Also, you don't normally equip both a shield booster and an armor repper.  Gallente ships are best as armor tankers so I'd concentrate on that. Small and medium drones both work from the same skill so there's nothing stopping you from carrying a few mediums along with your load of hobgoblins. I use small drones only on the fastest and hardest to hit frigates myself, for most other things mediums are much faster.

For that fifth high slot you could equip a smart bomb (careful not to blow up your own drones), a remote armor repper to repair your drones or perhaps a tractor beam to speed up looting.

[Morat20]

It's worth moving to medium guns. I always used long range ammo and let my drones handle the stuff that got too close to hit. Also, you don't normally equip both a shield booster and an armor repper.  Gallente ships are best as armor tankers so I'd concentrate on that. Small and medium drones both work from the same skill so there's nothing stopping you from carrying a few mediums along with your load of hobgoblins. I use small drones only on the fastest and hardest to hit frigates myself, for most other things mediums are much faster.

For that fifth high slot you could equip a smart bomb (careful not to blow up your own drones), a remote armor repper to repair your drones or perhaps a tractor beam to speed up looting.

What are you normally fighting in L2 missions? My worry about medium rails is that I'll be facing stuff too small or too fast to hit -- and yeah, I have the scout drones for that, but I'd prefer to use them for standoff power. I suppose I could train up and equip painters, but is that worth it at this point? I could also mount 2 lights and 2 medium rails, but that's only worth it if L2 missions draw a mix of ships.

Admittedly, I sic my drones on a target at maximum range (30+k or so for me) and try to keep a fair distance away from my target. Will I be looking at different tactics in L2? I do have enough room for a full wave of scouts and a full wave of mediums (one reason I chose the Vex), so putting that together and deploying situationally is easy.

For the shield booster -- I only have it equipped because I had an empty slot and my armor repairer isn't all that hot.

Normally I'd just fly in and see how it worked, but I paid a lot for this boat....:) Any suggestions on the remaining hi-slot (the non-turret one)? Duh -- you suggested some. The remote armor repairer is a good idea -- I'd have to see what skills I need.

[Yegolev]

Re: drones.  When you slurp a drone into your drone bay, it replenishes the shield.

It's kind of funny, my Gunnery skills are terrible but my Drone skills are halfass.  It takes me forever to down a rogue drone in a lv1 mission with the small hybrids, but five scout drones are like death incarnate.  I figure five scouts are better than two heavies for small targets like that, but not sure.

[Morat20]

Re: drones.  When you slurp a drone into your drone bay, it replenishes the shield.

Yeah -- I take advantage of that a lot. I was flying in Incursus -- could mount three 150s and holds one entire drone. :)

It's kind of funny, my Gunnery skills are terrible but my Drone skills are halfass.  It takes me forever to down a rogue drone in a lv1 mission with the small hybrids, but five scout drones are like death incarnate.  I figure five scouts are better than two heavies for small targets like that, but not sure.

No kidding. My single hobgoblin does as much damage as my guns sometimes, and it's rare for me to lose one. Heck, the last time I lost a drone was when I had three .4 belt rats on my in my Navitas -- and the only reason I lost it was because they were right on top of me before I knew they were there, so I left the drone and warped. (Navitas is slow and has little cap).

Came back with another drone and took down all three with just the drone (my Navitas is fitted for mining -- no guns). Took awhile, but a single scout took out all three of them. (11k bounties on each -- not bad). I've been drooling for the Vex and the thought of dumping 5 scouts -- or 5 mediums -- for ages.

My only real concern about moving to medium drones or medium turrets (or both) is facing frigs. I was under the impression that L2 missions were mixed cruisers and frigs. I don't know what 150mm rails are going to do against cruisers, but 5 scouts should be able to tear them up, without having to play whack-a-mole with the faster frigs. Then again, I don't know how bad targetting is with medium drones and railguns on frigs.

[WayAbvPar]

If you work your drone skills up a bit, they will tear through the L2 mission frigs in seconds. Jump into F13 chat and say hello sometime- I can float you a couple of million if you need some seed money. That should help you pimp out your cruiser with some decent gear. Or come to Akora- there is stuff in the corp hangar I could donate to your cause as well.

[Morat20]

If you work your drone skills up a bit, they will tear through the L2 mission frigs in seconds. Jump into F13 chat and say hello sometime- I can float you a couple of million if you need some seed money. That should help you pimp out your cruiser with some decent gear. Or come to Akora- there is stuff in the corp hangar I could donate to your cause as well.

I appreciate it, but I'm doing well enough. :) My drone skills are -- roughly, as EVE isn't letting me see the online interface:

Drones 5/5.
Drone Interfacing 5/5
Drone Durability 3/5
Drone Navigation 3/5
Drone Sharpshooting 2/5
Scout Drones 4/5

Something like that. My drones are tough little buggers -- figured out a long time ago that I want my Drones to do all the hard work, not me. Choosing Gallente helped. I need to track down some better armor repairers at some point, but I might hit up an L2 agent tonight to see what I can do. I think the only piece of T2 I've got around is a Miner II I picked up somewhere, but I think what I've got is sufficient for running missions -- and my last L1 agent kept rewarding me with Hobgoblins and Warrior drones. And planetary vehicles, for some reason.

[Raging Turtle]

Isn't Drone interfacing the skill that takes like 28 days to get to V??  Even if you have it at IV, you can load some medium drones in your vexor and expect to completely shred any level 2 mission, with or without guns. 

[Yegolev]

Pretty sure Drone Interf. is rank 5.  So 28 days sounds about right to get from 4 to 5, depending on stats.

I use a single heavy (Berserker I) to defend the barge in .7 belts.  That thing fights better than most frigate pilots.

[WayAbvPar]

Morat, your drone skills should be more than sufficient to handle frigs in Level 2s.

[Reg]

What are you normally fighting in L2 missions? My worry about medium rails is that I'll be facing stuff too small or too fast to hit -- and yeah, I have the scout drones for that, but I'd prefer to use them for standoff power. I suppose I could train up and equip painters, but is that worth it at this point? I could also mount 2 lights and 2 medium rails, but that's only worth it if L2 missions draw a mix of ships.

Level 2s will be mostly frigates with the very occasional cruiser. Your drone skills are awesome for a newb. Did you just stop playing for a month while you got Drone Interfacing 5? Give the medium drones a try though. The elite frigates that they have trouble hitting are very rare in level 2 missions if they exist there at all. I like the idea of mixing a couple of medium guns and a couple of small ones. In fact, depending on your skills you may have to do that anyway if you run out of cap or cpu.

Your biggest shock in level 2s will come when you first go up against some of those Mercenary missile boats. They're nasty.

For the shield booster -- I only have it equipped because I had an empty slot and my armor repairer isn't all that hot.

If you're used to having a shield booster around then keep it. It doesn't really matter if you gimp yourself a little doing level 2s. When it's time to move up to a battlecruiser or battleship and start on level 3s it becomes more important. Although, since you have an extra medium slot you might consider a cap recharger.

Normally I'd just fly in and see how it worked, but I paid a lot for this boat.... Any suggestions on the remaining hi-slot (the non-turret one)? Duh -- you suggested some. The remote armor repairer is a good idea -- I'd have to see what skills I need.

I have a Vexor BPO and I sell them to people from F13 at cost (when I can't convince them to just take one for free). If you lose your ship let me know. I think my latest cost to make one is about 3 million isk.

[Roac]

Level 2s are only tough if you have a couple weeks worth of skills.  As said, you should decimate anything they can throw at you.  With Drone Interfacing 5 (WTF?!) you shouldn't even need to spend the ammo if you don't feel like.  Or just use then for the very rare cruiser you come across.

[Morat20]

Thanks for the advice all -- and more or less, I DID stop playing for several months while skills trained. I seem to play EVE in clusters -- and I wander around trying stuff. (Like spending a few days mining, a few days toying with blueprints and labs -- made ammo, basically). About the only constant was "I like drones. A LOT". So when I lacked any necessary skill (like when I was training cybernetics because I wanted to slot an implant) I mostly trained drones. I wasn't sure if I wanted to do missions, PvP, play the market, mine or just kill 'rats -- but I figured drones (being Gallente) wouldn't hurt.

Also, I started grad school about three weeks after I picked up EVE. So I've been a member of newb corp for something like a year, and I've only played regularly for maybe a month all told -- I did log on a bit more frequently to switch skills.

So doing DI 5/5 wasn't a big deal -- I think I did it around midterms back in the spring. I don't normally take the fifth rank of anything unless I need it, but DI was just too nice. And since I wasn't going to log on for at least a month -- given the shitpile of real work, class work, and midterm stress -- why not? At least I wouldn't have to bother switching skills. I've still got to work on navigation and durability, and a bit more work on range -- and of course haven't even started on heavy drones yet.

As for missile boats: Good lord yes. I remember the first L1 mission where I ran into a missile boat. I had to warp out -- I didn't realize what was hammering me so damn hard. Came back and just burned him down, but that first one was a shock.

[Calantus]

As for missile boats: Good lord yes. I remember the first L1 mission where I ran into a missile boat. I had to warp out -- I didn't realize what was hammering me so damn hard. Came back and just burned him down, but that first one was a shock.

My first encounter with missile boats cost me my first ship. I was getting pounded and was thinking about warping out, but I was in a fast frigate and figured I could outrun their "guns" as I did with every other ship when in danger. No good of course, I only realised as I warped out in my pod that it was (long range) missiles turning my ship into space junk. :(

[Morat20]

As for missile boats: Good lord yes. I remember the first L1 mission where I ran into a missile boat. I had to warp out -- I didn't realize what was hammering me so damn hard. Came back and just burned him down, but that first one was a shock.

My first encounter with missile boats cost me my first ship. I was getting pounded and was thinking about warping out, but I was in a fast frigate and figured I could outrun their "guns" as I did with every other ship when in danger. No good of course, I only realised as I warped out in my pod that it was (long range) missiles turning my ship into space junk. :(

Every L2 mission I've taken I've gotten smashed by missiles. Constantly. I talked a bit with the corp (GO NEWB CORP!) and refitted my Vex properly -- 1600mm armor, medium armor rep (t1, sadly). I can't fit active hardeners --lack the skills --  but I've got a passive set (traded out my power diag system) and got Systemic Damage Control. (That stuff is awesome. Low cap power for a good boost to resists for virtually everything).

Switched back to scout drones (NPC missiles can't really hit them -- too fast) and let them take aggro when possible. Even with straight off the market, fairly low-skill T1 gear I can armor tank multiple missile boats without raising a sweat. Only difficult mission I had was phase three or four of Human Cattle.

I finished up 5/5 on Human Cattle, and two guys in the Corp (this is still the NPC newb corp -- so not exactly a group of tight friends) volunteered to yank out some heavy miners and haulers. (There's a 90k Omber asteroid there -- 5 to 6 mill if you pop it). We stripped that thing clean, hauled it in, and finished up in 45 minutes. Was a fun day.

[Yegolev]

Morat, if you are around The Citadel/The Forge boundary area and you want some mining help, send me a message.  Don't forget to tell me who you are so I can put it into your notes, I forget names a lot.  My pilot's name is Yegolev, of course.

[Chenghiz]

I think the newb corps are the single best thing about the newbie experience in EVE. Whoever thought of that was a wise, wise man.

[Morat20]

Morat, if you are around The Citadel/The Forge boundary area and you want some mining help, send me a message.  Don't forget to tell me who you are so I can put it into your notes, I forget names a lot.  My pilot's name is Yegolev, of course.

I fly under Acica Dy'Neer. Right now, amusing myself with L2 missions in Verge Vendor. Mining is mostly a sidelight to me right now. I do want to explore it further at some point, but I seem to only be interested once every few play sessions.

[Calantus]

I feel I've played enough of the game to know I'd be happy to play for long enough for the learnings to pay off and there's no time like the present.

So I was wrong. The actual game still appeals to me... but the advancement is just too slow. In maybe a bit over a month I could be in a raven and fit it decently enough to not look stupid. That's if I ignore anything not to do with getting myseld into a raven (and ignoring ISK), and I'd still have a long way to go before I had all the relevant skills at 4s, let alone 5s. I still wouldn't be able to fly a crow well, or be able to utilize any kind of gunships. It took me, at most, a third of that time to level my last WoW main through to max. To fully max out a ship I'd be looking at around a year worth of training. That's just rediculous. I'm sure if I was on even footing with everyone it would be fine, but there's people that are waaay ahead of me and I don't like having an eternal disadvantage.

Feel free to kick me from the guild, I recently formatted and haven't installed Eve or I'd have logged in to do it myself.

[Viin]

Fully max out a ship in a year? Well, yah, if you *have* to have level 5 in everything.  But you don't need it.

What I love is when I go out in my AF someone in an Inty can totally school me if they know what they are doing more than I do. Sure it sucks for me, but that just goes to show that the ship doesn't make the fight - it's the pilot.

You might have a head start in your Raven, but you sure as hell can be taken down with a couple/few cruisers.

The point of this is to say that you don't need to fly a Raven to "not look stupid".

[Calantus]

The point about not looking stupid was not about flying a raven, but about flying a raven with appropriate fittings and skills to be able to make decent use of it. People flying around in big ships with crappy mods is just silly. And yeah, I know I don't need those skills maxed, and likely wouldn't have, I'd rather branch out into a new ship than squeeze out an extra percent that takes a month to train. It was mostly just illustration of my thoughts on how long things take. What if tomorrow I decide I want to fly an armor tanked ship that uses guns? It would take me months to get all those gun skills and ship skills and armor skills. It just does not sit well with me how long it takes to go from wanting to be able to do something and being able to do it. Also I can't actively speed up the process which irritates me somewhat.

But yeah I'm not having a big go at Eve, that one aspect just doesn't sit well with me is all, and it is a dealbreaker.

[Chenghiz]

Heh, I got owned by an inty when I was flying around 0.3 in my frigate-fitted cruiser. Boy did I feel like a huge noob.

[hal]

Cal, Eve isn't for every one. And I am not sure it is my game. But you are making more of it than it is. Ya, your not gonna take BOB out singlehandedly. But if you are listing to newb corp (or F13)  you can do approbate things for your skill level. In WOW terms you will never ding 50 in eve. No one ever has. The game grows faster than the players. But just because you cant do everything doesn't mean you cant do anything.

[Viin]

What if tomorrow I decide I want to fly an armor tanked ship that uses guns? It would take me months to get all those gun skills and ship skills and armor skills. It just does not sit well with me how long it takes to go from wanting to be able to do something and being able to do it.

I certainly understand. That's why I've focused solely on Caldari ships rather than branching into other races. However, I would like to note this is one of very few games that have no limit on the number skills you can acquire - the only thing stopping you is the time it requires to learn them (and maybe the isk to buy them).

[Slayerik]

I understand where Cal is coming from though... being a 1.1 million SP player means im going to be a tackling bitch for a while.

I can contribute to my corps mining OPs in a Iteron 3 (Industrial Gallente 3) though, and make some money that way while im waiting. Can also learn some ropes in cheaper ships in PVP. Im close to buying an acct , however, because it really does suck trying to play catch up to be decent.

[Cheddar]

... im ... a ... bitch ...

I can ... make some money ... Can ... earn some ropes ... Im close ...  really ... suck ... decent.

I am bored so playing WUA edit game.

[Yoru]

I think saying "it'll take a year to switch what I'm doing" is entirely false; I have around 14 million SP at the moment. I can do pretty much anything aside from piloting certain top-end classes of ships and certain niche activities (COSMOS comes to mind - and I could do that in a week of training, tops).

To get in at the base level of a new race's cruiser ship class takes about 2 days, tops, from scratch, with decent stats. To actually armor or shield tank, you need only a few skills at 1-3; "switching" becomes a matter of a few hours. Will you be able to use tech2 gear and fit it to maximum efficacy? No. That will take a few days to a few weeks, depending on how many 5s it takes instead of 4s.

Eve gives you a choice: jack of all trades, or master of one? You cannot be level 60 at everything, the game grows too fast for that, as noted. You cannot pilot a titan, run an exhumer with maximum efficiency and be the world's l33test trader-industrialist all at the same time - at least, not before many more new activities have been added to the game.

However, just because you're not #1 doesn't mean you're worthless; as has been mentioned, a decent dude in a cruiser can punk an unprepared vet - a group of them can blow away a prepared vet.

And Eve is also not for everyone; the subjective pace is much slower on an individual basis than your average PVP battlegrounds run.

[Calantus]

Yep, I was trying to get the "this is personal bias/taste at work here" into my posts but it didn't seem to happen. The advancement is just too slow for my tastes, the rest of the game I really dig, but that one issue is a dealbreaker. I've read up on all the skills strictly "needed" for what I'd like to do and it isn't that huge, really. But it's still too slow for my tastes. /shrug

I might pick up on it again when I've got another main game to keep me occupied, but right now I don't, and having a single main game that I can't make-go-faster-now is just too irritating. I'm big on the whole instant gratification thing. :P

[Endie]

You're right: it's a taste thing.  I've been playing for 8 months now and while not up there with the 14 million SP of Yoru, I've still got over 8.  I've never flown a battleship yet, and spent about a day in cruisers total.  But I've concentrated on inty and battlecruiser, so in those I'm pretty competitive.

Of course, I also have 1.3 million skill points in EW skills that I've never used...  One day, though, that month will have a point.

I like that, if I decided to fly Amarr stuff instead, in about 8 minutes I could be qualified for my first frigate and trying it out.  And unlike class-based systems, most of my skills would carry over to some extent: I'd be starting from a very high point.

[Yoru]

I might pick up on it again when I've got another main game to keep me occupied, but right now I don't, and having a single main game that I can't make-go-faster-now is just too irritating. I'm big on the whole instant gratification thing. :P

Actually, that's what I thought of Eve the first time I played it. The notion that my activities couldn't impact my advancement time (beyond cash for skillbooks) was a huge turnoff - at the time.

And despite having a decent amount of skill points, I'm nowhere near the master of anything - but I can certainly switch hats with rather astonishing rapidity and still be fairly effective. I could even fly two different races' tier3 battleships, fit out properly for their roles, if I had the cash.