2006 World Cup Chock full o' spoilers thread

[Signe]

That was a pretty good game overall, Hoax.  Would be nice if refs were alert enough to spot obvious dives.  I hate refs.

If you were falling asleep throughout, you're not a good enough football fan and will suck at being a decent hooligan. 

NO FOOTBALL THUGGERY FOR YOU!

I agree it was an interesting match, the sleeping was not indicative of the quality of play as much as how little rest I got this weekend and how worn down my body is.  I'm not at work right now because I really can't walk with 3-4 blisters on each foot.

Obviously walking the streets as a rent boy is not the job for you!  Become a computer professional!  You'll never have to stand up again!   

[El Gallo]

Here is where an ignorant American makes suggestions that won't work about a game he does not understand:

1. When somebody goes down injured or the ball goes out of bounds, blow the whistle and stop the clock.  This prevents people from wasting time and taking advantage of the fact that stoppage time never seems to be long enough.  It also gets rid of the "how long can I waste time and pretend I'm looking for a guy to inbound this ball to before I get a yellow card" minigame.  Or just keep more precise stoppage time.

2. Would a halfcourt rule a la basketball (i.e. once you take the ball to the offensive half of the field, you cannot kick it back into your defensive end) help cut down on the "kicking it backwards and around to run down the clock" issue (or is that not considered to be an issue by most people?).  Or would the costs (e.g. allowing defenders to trap offensive players as they come across the midfield line) be even worse?

[sigil]

Here is where an ignorant American makes suggestions that won't work about a game he does not understand:

1. When somebody goes down injured or the ball goes out of bounds, blow the whistle and stop the clock.  This prevents people from wasting time and taking advantage of the fact that stoppage time never seems to be long enough.  It also gets rid of the "how long can I waste time and pretend I'm looking for a guy to inbound this ball to before I get a yellow card" minigame.  Or just keep more precise stoppage time.

2. Would a halfcourt rule a la basketball (i.e. once you take the ball to the offensive half of the field, you cannot kick it back into your defensive end) help cut down on the "kicking it backwards and around to run down the clock" issue (or is that not considered to be an issue by most people?).  Or would the costs (e.g. allowing defenders to trap offensive players as they come across the midfield line) be even worse?

For the first one, I think the extra time component handles it well enough as is.

As for the second:

Apart from changing the game on a fundamental level, like instituing a pitch clock in baseball, or  making it three downs  per side in American football, you mean?

There's enough turnovers in soccer as is, no need to add more. Besides, most time wasting is done as far away from the defense as possible. Most of the passbacks are along the lines of, "this isn't going to work, let's try again with a different approach." Once you cross midline, even a bunkerball team is more likely to contest the pass and set up a counter.

I"m not getting a real feel for how the Swiss and the Ukranians are doing from Matchcast, but  it's heading off to exra time. I should pull up the guardian minute by minute and catch up.

[Jobu]

I"m not getting a real feel for how the Swiss and the Ukranians are doing from Matchcast, but  it's heading off to exra time. I should pull up the guardian minute by minute and catch up.

Both teams have bad first touches. They're losing the ball a lot, or making bad passes. It's the only thing keeping the game interesting really, since all the changes of possession was making it nearly end-to-end stuff. But it always breaks down at the 18 yard. I don't think whomever wins will have much chance of beating Italy based on how they are playing.

[eldaec]

Here is where an ignorant American makes suggestions that won't work about a game he does not understand:

1. When somebody goes down injured or the ball goes out of bounds, blow the whistle and stop the clock.  This prevents people from wasting time and taking advantage of the fact that stoppage time never seems to be long enough.  It also gets rid of the "how long can I waste time and pretend I'm looking for a guy to inbound this ball to before I get a yellow card" minigame.  Or just keep more precise stoppage time.

2. Would a halfcourt rule a la basketball (i.e. once you take the ball to the offensive half of the field, you cannot kick it back into your defensive end) help cut down on the "kicking it backwards and around to run down the clock" issue (or is that not considered to be an issue by most people?).  Or would the costs (e.g. allowing defenders to trap offensive players as they come across the midfield line) be even worse?

1) personally I agree, most of the world disagrees however. /shrug

2) Not really, football isn't a territorial game, it's a possession game, doing this would force people to play for territory by just hoofing upfield in order to get away from the half-way line. Poncing about with the ball around the half way line is a valid tactic anyhow, the best teams use it to pull the other team out of position before moving forward.

[sigil]

My reading of the Guardian's report was  probably twice as interesting as the game so far, with the extra added component of getting the summary of Miss Marple in the meantime.

Quote of the day:

This game is like watching England play England - A guardian update viewer

Edit:  So, Ukraine on PKs 3-0

Amazingly pathetic turd of a game just then. And now the answer to this question, "Name  a country to be eliminated from a World Cup Knockout Stage while allowing zero goals all tournament?" has the answer of Switzerland. My thanks to the guardian for that little trivia stumper. I guess I should fact check that to ensure no other teams have had such an odd distinction.

[Righ]

Knowing that they were about to face Italy, both teams put on a tremendous display of falling over as soon as they reached the penalty box. For some reason the referee played a different game this time round. As a result, no score, and a penalty shootout.

[sigil]

Knowing that they were about to face Italy, both teams put on a tremendous display of falling over as soon as they reached the penalty box. For some reason the referee played a different game this time round. As a result, no score, and a penalty shootout.

It's that consistency of the officiating that has me so riveted in this years Cup ;)

[Jobu]

Good lord. Even the penalty shootout was as goalless and droll as the game. How do you not even score on the spot... after three tries?!

[Hoax]

I fell asleep a bunch during that game also.

[Zetleft]

This thread has actually made me appreciate NFL refs. 

[Cyrrex]

Knowing that they were about to face Italy, both teams put on a tremendous display of falling over as soon as they reached the penalty box. For some reason the referee played a different game this time round. As a result, no score, and a penalty shootout.

To be fair, neither side is nearly as well-practiced as the Italians when it comes to this sort of thing.  I am starting to realize that one of the things I so enjoy about Brazilian and Argentinian style football is that the players tend to adapt more of a "you couldn't knock me down if you were driving a beer truck" attitude.  It even works to their advantage, as they often get through situations that would have your average Italian player being sent off to the ER....only to miraculously recover after 5 seconds on the sideline.

[Wolf]

a bulgarian commentator cracked me up yesterday:

"The Ukrainian coach is staying at the same hotel as the famous porn star Paris Hilton"  :-D

[Luxor]

This just strengthens my hatred of Italian football. I hope their league goes down in flames and all their star players end up picking olives in Tuscany for the rest of their lives.

Funnily enough....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/5034522.stm

[Llyse]

To be fair, neither side is nearly as well-practiced as the Italians when it comes to this sort of thing.  I am starting to realize that one of the things I so enjoy about Brazilian and Argentinian style football is that the players tend to adapt more of a "you couldn't knock me down if you were driving a beer truck" attitude.  It even works to their advantage, as they often get through situations that would have your average Italian player being sent off to the ER....only to miraculously recover after 5 seconds on the sideline.

from what I saw the Argentinas like to dive as well as play dirty with shirt pulling...

[Hokers]

I am boycotting Italian food until they are eliminated, that was awful.  I will work in some shrimp to this weekends bbq in sympathy (and some shiraz, yummy stuff)

Go Argentina (the most fun team to watch) and England (though I wonder, are there other choices than Lampard or Crouch to play alongside Rooney, there has to be).

[sigil]

I am boycotting Italian food until they are eliminated, that was awful.  I will work in some shrimp to this weekends bbq in sympathy (and some shiraz, yummy stuff)

Go Argentina (the most fun team to watch) and England (though I wonder, are there other choices than Lampard or Crouch to play alongside Rooney, there has to be).

Well, there's Walcott. And er, um Crouch does a nice robot dance, no?

So, here's the question for the the day.

What will be the higher number?

1)Goals scored by Thierry Henry (or France in general)

2) Red Cards issued

3) Bananas thrown onto the field by rabidly racist Spanish supporters?

[Miasma]

I tried to watch some of the games to see why so many people like soccer but I just can't get past all those dives, they disgust me.  There should be penalties for faking it.

[Signe]

That's what I'm hoping for.

[sigil]

I tried to watch some of the games to see why so many people like soccer but I just can't get past all those dives, they disgust me.  There should be penalties for faking it.

Righ posted that earlier, without the Chumbawamba.  And technically, you can be carded for a dive, especially  in the penalty area. It's just that there's a lot of wiggle room that certain cynical , pathetic and morally bankrupt teams can use to take advantage of the situation.

Technically, the ref made the right call against Australia, but a better ref probably lets that go, given the cynical nature of the foul. Play on.

[HaemishM]

re: England, I dont get you fuckers at all, hasn't Beckham pretty much won 3/4 games for you?  I realize he doesn't do much on the defensive side of the ball but he has single handedly won 3 of 4 games.  Lay off?

He seems to be there for nothing other than taking free kicks. The rest of the time he nonces about the field doing mostly nothing. If he never gets a good opportunity for a free kick, he's pretty much wasted.

[Azazel]

Well, after Australia's knockout, and the cowardly dive the Italians took to do it, I'm out of 1st-tier favorites to support. So it's onto my second-tier team. England. Except, well, they're not really playing especially well, are they? I'll add in one of my third-tier teams as well then. Hm, Ghana being knocked out as I type this. Viva Argentina!

[sigil]

Ghana is giving it a good attempt, but they just don't have quite enough. It didn't help matters any that Ghana got hosed on a blown offsides call on the second goal.

[CmdrSlack]

And now a yellow card that leads to a red card for diving? (I believe the red card was due to second yellow, but whatevs)  Where was this kind of officiating yesterday vs. Italy  or last week vs. the U.S.?  These are the most inconsistent refs -- granted my frame of reference is basically this world cup and last, but still, these refs suck ass.

[Hoax]

Teams to root for:

1.  Spain
+ never won before
+ very fun to watch
+++ would have to beat France
+ team name is "the Fury"

2.  Argentina
+ very fun to watch
+ great individual talent but play as a team
+ not Ukraine
- sort of greasy

3.  Portugal
+ some magnificent players
+ never won before
+ would have to beat England thereby ridding us all of having to hear about how terrible England is

[sigil]

And now a yellow card that leads to a red card for diving? (I believe the red card was due to second yellow, but whatevs)  Where was this kind of officiating yesterday vs. Italy  or last week vs. the U.S.?  These are the most inconsistent refs -- granted my frame of reference is basically this world cup and last, but still, these refs suck ass.

Gyan was a little :too: obvious. Second yellow deserved.

Goal now by Ze Roberto. That's all she wrote.

[Signe]

Luckily for England, Portugal has about 7 yellows.  Hopefully, they'll piss off the ref enough to make them all turn red. 

[Jobu]

re: England, I dont get you fuckers at all, hasn't Beckham pretty much won 3/4 games for you?  I realize he doesn't do much on the defensive side of the ball but he has single handedly won 3 of 4 games.  Lay off?

He seems to be there for nothing other than taking free kicks. The rest of the time he nonces about the field doing mostly nothing. If he never gets a good opportunity for a free kick, he's pretty much wasted.

Are you saying he's a slow, ponderous player with no pace at all? That he can't effect a game unless he can casually stroll up to a deadball? That he's unnecessary weight plodding around the field?

[Righ]

Is that Posh on top?

[Signe]

All that may be true about Beckham, but as a woman, he pleases my eyes.

Have him bathed and brought to me.

[Jobu]

I personally think he's great. People are too hard on him. With Gary Neville making overlapping runs to open up more space for him (since he's not a very deft dribbler), he plays wonderfully. The last game he was tracking back to the last third making defensive tackles and pressure, between his spells of vomiting. That's commitment, and great leadership. Keep him in.

This one's for Signe: Hawtness

[eldaec]

It's also what rightwingers are for - you don't get bonus points for tracking back, you get shouted at for not doing so.

Beckham is usually better than this. Lennon is currently playing better.

[eldaec]

So,

Germany vs Argentina
Italy vs Ukraine
England vs Portugal
Brazil vs France


I'm going to stick my neck out a little and back Germany, Italy, England and France.

I actually think Germany look like the team on the rise, while in Argentina's display against Mexico they were looking a little uncertain of what to do when the pressure is on, Italy are the easiest pick - they're just flat out better than Ukraine, England might be below expectations but I suspect they still have enough to get past a Decoless Portugal, finally France are getting it together, wheras Brazil's 3-0 scoreline flattered them today - I get the feeling France have a real opportunity this weekend.

[yd]

Luckily for England, Portugal has about 7 yellows.  Hopefully, they'll piss off the ref enough to make them all turn red. 

You have to get two yellow cards in the same game to get an indirect red.

What all those yellow cards mean is that if those players pick up another yellow during the England match and Portugal wins, they will be suspended for the next game.

Getting a red card (direct or otherwise) during a match also suspends you for the next game.

Although I hadn't actually seen a full spain game, I'd picked them to win this game today based on what I'd heard so far. But they played very badly today, appearing inexperienced, unable to control the ball or retain possession for very long, and had it not been for that penalty which was rather unintentional on the defender's part I thought, they'd have lost 3:0.

I pick Brazil over France, Italy over Ukraine, Portugal over England (wishful thinking, probably won't happen), and tentatively Argentina over Germany.

Portugal then loses 3:2 to Brazil, who go on to face Argentina in the finals.

Of course, Brazil has a shameful history against France, but let's hope the game isn't rigged and the refs aren't corrupt this time around.

[Jobu]

Germany vs Argentina
Italy vs Ukraine
England vs Portugal
Brazil vs France


I'm going to stick my neck out a little and back Germany, Italy, England and France.

Whomever wins between Germany-Argentina will make it through to the final. Both of them can definitely beat Italy/Ukraine, I think. Lucky them.

Looks like a lot of really great games. England v. Portugal, a rematch of the Euro 04 semi that saw Rooney with a broken foot early on. He'll be wanting to amend that a lot. I get a sense one he gets that first goal, he's going to explode. Brazil v. France, a rematch of the 98 final. Brazil will want to put that straight as well. The old guard of France will want one last go at glory before retiring, maybe that will keep them kicking on all gears. Germany and Argentina have been the most exciting teams to watch, so it'll be great to see them go at each other. Riquelme's finesse vs. Ballack's drive. Good stuff to come. Let's hope the referee's keep their current form up too... they look to have been getting a little better as we get deeper in.