Television thread

[Velorath]

So... Can someone give me a rundown on what happened in Buffy as to make a show like Angel possible? I stopped watching a little bit after Spike took over that little vampire clan, and Angel went bad, killed the computer teacher, and joined him. The show started boring me for various reasons, but I thought Spike and Angel were cool... Figured I'd give Angel a chance.

Anyways, how did those two become good? What the hell did Angel do to get Buffy's little group to even accept him back again (I'm assuming she did..)? WTF turned Spike into a do-gooder? Just spoil everything if you can.

You couldn't make it through 3 seasons of Buffy to find out some of these answers (Spike becoming good is really the only thing you'd need to see the last couple seasons to understand)?  If you found Season 2 of Buffy boring (it's generally thought of as being the best season), I'm not sure how long you'd last with Angel (which was even more hit or miss than Buffy, except for the final season which was good stuff).

[stray]

Hmm, looking at the buffy episode list, it appears that I stopped watching RIGHT before Angel redeemed himself...? I guess I'll give it a shot again. I'm more interested in what happened to Spike though. Are you saying that I have to watch entire seasons just to get the story there? Huh...? :\

[Trippy]

The glib answer is that it all revolves around sex with Buffy. The long-winded answer is you can read the Wikipedia entries:

Angel
Spike

Edit: fixed links, SMFcode doesn't like parens in URLs, spelling

[stray]

Spike

Lol, maybe I'm gonna have to watch the rest of Buffy, after all.

[Reg]

Because of an old gypsy curse Angel got his soul back like a hundred years before he even met Buffy so he was good for as long as she knew him. The kicker was that the curse only lasted until he had a moment of perfect happiness and that happened for him when he and Buffy slept together. That's why he suddenly became evil and joined up with Spike again.

...
He got better and was spun off for his own show.
...

Spike started to take a greater role in things and the chemistry between him and Buffy got pretty strong but he was still a soul-less monster and Buffy knew that and rejected him because of it. This upset him and he went off towards the end of season 6 and ended up getting his soul back which turned him good just in time to participate in the last season of Buffy and save the world at the cost of his own life. Yay for Spike!

[stray]

I know about the Gypsy Curse. I just don't understand how he got good again. Or WHY in the hell would Buffy want him around after all of that. And most of all, Giles -- I mean, he killed his girlfriend.

[Tebonas]

Since you obviously rather have us tell you than watch those episodes yourself:

Willow cast a spell to give him his soul again using the same curse the Gypsies used the first time. She found the spell on a floppy disk prepared by Giles girlfriend right before Angelus killed her.

Buffy sent him to hell in a fight (moments after the spell worked), but due to their truest love ever he returned next season summoned by her thinking about him. She hid him from the others because they all would have killed his sorry ass again. Then as the next apocalypse approached, they had more important things to do.

[Ironwood]

Oh, and Giles never ever forgave him.  Those of you who thought he did weren't paying attention.

[Tebonas]

Indeed, the Librarian can hold a grudge like its nobodies business. Once a Vampire is on his bad side, he can passive-agressive the shit out of him. Or plot to have him killed by a third person so that Buffy isn't mad at him for killing her boy toy.

[stray]

Since you obviously rather have us tell you than watch those episodes yourself

I already said I'd give them a shot again. At least the Angel related stuff. I'm just responding at one little issue at this point. It doesn't hurt anyone.

[Tebonas]

I just think we are spoilering quite some twists in the plot at this point. It might hurt your viewing pleasure. Oh, what am I saying, its Buffy the Vampire Slayer, its plot twists are not exactly rocket science. Ask away, I'll try to answer it! 

[stray]

Heh, so far you've told me what I want to know. It's just that I caught an episode of Angel last night and it entertained me. Seemed like a funnier show. Now I want to jump to that and fast forward through Buffy.

I am downloading seasons 2 & 3 of Buffy right now though, but if I get the urge to rush through again, I'll ask.

[Reg]

Angel did get to be pretty funny especially towards the end. My personal favourite was the episode where he was turned into a muppet. :)

[Ironwood]

I laughed hardest at the one where Wesley got his throat slit.

Good Times.

[Reg]

You just hated poor Wesley because he was English. Bastard.

[Morat20]

Indeed, the Librarian can hold a grudge like its nobodies business. Once a Vampire is on his bad side, he can passive-agressive the shit out of him. Or plot to have him killed by a third person so that Buffy isn't mad at him for killing her boy toy.

Giles was fucking awesome. My only complaint was that I firmly believe he should have continued kicking Evil Angry Willow's fucking ass, rather than "lose" and let Xander redeem her with love or some shit.

Evil Angry Willow was not nearly as fun as Bisexual Vampire Evil Willow, and I got sick of her ass about 10 seconds after she went all ugly and crazy. Although I did support the skinning of the Geek Squad members.

[Velorath]

Angel did get to be pretty funny especially towards the end. My personal favourite was the episode where he was turned into a muppet. :)

It helped that they brought Ben Edlund (creator of the Tick) on as a writer in the last season.  He's the one who wrote the puppet episode.

[Nevermore]

Evil Angry Willow was not nearly as fun as Bisexual Vampire Evil Willow, and I got sick of her ass about 10 seconds after she went all ugly and crazy. Although I did support the skinning of the Geek Squad members.

Evil Bisexual Vampire Willow had better skin.

[Morat20]

Evil Bisexual Vampire Willow had better skin.

One of the best lines of the show was Willow's (after meeting Evil Bisexual Vampire Willow) "And I think I'm kind of gay" remark.

[Nevermore]

Evil Bisexual Vampire Willow had better skin.

One of the best lines of the show was Willow's (after meeting Evil Bisexual Vampire Willow) "And I think I'm kind of gay" remark.

Foreshadowing!

[Riggswolfe]

Evil Bisexual Vampire Willow had better skin.

One of the best lines of the show was Willow's (after meeting Evil Bisexual Vampire Willow) "And I think I'm kind of gay" remark.

Actually I liked the follow up by Angel and (I think) Giles better.

Giles: "Vampire personalities are nothing like the real one."
Angel: "Well actually...." *gets an evil look from Giles. "he's right."

[stray]

Glad I picked it up again. Faith and that Mayor dude are great characters. Season 3 is much better than 1 or 2... Not sure why 2 is even a fan favorite. It sucked. As much as I liked Spike, Drusella and evil Angel ruined it.

[Signe]

There's some tv channel that I never noticed before named Ion TV.  (We have Comcast)  Sunday they're broadcasting Hogfather. 

Hogfather
Sunday, December 23rd at 7/6c
Starring Joss Ackland, Sir David Jason, David Warner, Sir Ian Richardson, Michelle Dockery, Stephen Marcus

Ian Richardson's role is the voice of DEATH, which is a wonderful choice.  I love his voice.  Anyway, just thought fans would want to know since I haven't noticed anyone chatting about it.  I have to warn you, however, that it is a two part, 189 minute show but with all the adverts it's 240 minutes long.  EEK.  We watched "Flood" (meh... but it has Robert Carlyle, David Suchet, and some other notables), and there's a HUGE number of adverts.  I suggest DVR'ing it.

[Cim]

 I miss angel. ;_;

[stray]

GAH! I think I'd like to see Willow die now rather than Xander. If there's anything that Joss Whedon truly sucks at, it's writing about "love" and whatnot. This guy must not know shit except his own painful experiences. His characters just become completely unbearable when they get the shaft, or start pining for someone.


And WTF is this fascination with Willow anyways? She's almost unbearable to begin with.

[Tebonas]

Redhead.

Really, I'm easy like that! 

[Signe]

She is gormless.

[stray]

On the flipside, the episode "Hush" from season 4 is great (the one with those "Gentleman" dudes, who silence people). I'll have to show that one to friends who have been wondering why I'm even watching this show.

[Signe]

Ok, I don't even know what tv show we're talking about anymore.   

[stray]

Still talking about Buffy. "Hush" is a good episode for someone who has never given it a chance.

Finally started on Angel too. It's OK, but it needs a good villain asap.

[rattran]

Angel gets a bunch of different villains, but never really got one that clicked I think.

I've been spending my tv time catching up on The Mighty Boosh. Fun, wierd show. http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/mightyboosh/ Noel Fielding was amusing thes season on Never Mind the Buzzcocks, and is a blast on his own show. Definitely not for everyone, but it fits my humor.

[Nevermore]

"Once More, with Feeling" from season 6 is also a great episode.

[stray]

Angel gets a bunch of different villains, but never really got one that clicked I think.

Seriously, what's up with that? Same writers as Buffy, right? Buffy has only had one shitty villain really: The Master. Everything else is pretty good. Faith, the Mayor, Spike, Angelus, Adam

And to top it off, they just killed off Doyle.. And replaced him with Wesley? What?!

[Johny Cee]

Angel gets a bunch of different villains, but never really got one that clicked I think.

Seriously, what's up with that? Same writers as Buffy, right? Buffy has only had one shitty villain really: The Master. Everything else is pretty good. Faith, the Mayor, Spike, Angelus, Adam

And to top it off, they just killed off Doyle.. And replaced him with Wesley? What?!

Supposedly....  the actor that played Doyle had a pretty serious drug problem (died of an overdose a couple years after getting axed from the show),  and he was dragging David Boreanaz into a party lifestyle.

I really liked the guy as Doyle.  Wesley grows on you, though.

I kind of liked Elizabeth Rohm on the show,  though she does nothing for me on Law & Order.

Edit:

I liked Adam as a villain, but he wasn't the original villain that year.  I'm pretty sure the "big bad" was supposed to be the government agency,  but the actress playing the doctor got an offer to do something else and jumped on it forcing the writers to go with the Adam plotline.  I could be misremembering.

My interest in Buffy only lasted through seasons 3-5,  and Angel only season 1 and 2. 

[stray]

"Once More, with Feeling" from season 6 is also a great episode.

It better be. People hype it up quite a bit.... And all I know is that I hate musicals with a passion.