Television thread

[Tebonas]

Maybe not, maybe Smallville-Clark watched the Incredibles.

[HaemishM]

It's not cheapening the character of Superman to ask that creators maintain some consistency with the goddamn history of the character. There's a new take on the character and then there's blatant pussyfooting with the history. He wore the cape, the red and blue and the big S as a teenager. To say that he didn't and try to claim it's the same character is just horseshit. It's at best an Elseworlds take on the character, which is fine, but don't sell it to me as Superman.

Cos it ain't Superman, it's a teenage kid with super-powers and Kryptonite monsters of the week.

It's like that execrable Birds of Prey show they tried to foist on us, only Black Canary was a teenage psychic runaway without sonic powers and Huntress was a slutty dressed goth chick. The story was mildly entertaining, but it wasn't Birds of Prey.

[stray]

Lol, I can't believe the cape is holding you back that much. How funny.

[edit] Actually, I'm surprised. You seem to a like a lot of character development in stories -- which is what the gist of the "no cape" Clark in Smallville comes down to. He's far more interesting than some guy with the Superman title as his default birthright. In Smallville, he grows into the part. Not only that, but like I said earlier, he creates the Superman identity himself. It's not given to him by Jor-El.

Anyways, the show is 7 seasons and counting. It wouldn't have lasted that long if it sucked.

[Rasix]

You do realize what station it's on, don't you.  7th Heaven anyone?

[Yegolev]

Television RAPES Your Childhood for 3488 points!
You DIE!

Play again? y/[n]
>

[HaemishM]

he creates the Superman identity himself. It's not given to him by Jor-El.

Superman wasn't given the identity by Jor-El. If anything, his values and the core of his character comes from the Kents. Jor-El is really just a side character, a plot device to get him to Earth, even in the movies.

[stray]

From what I remember in the movies, Jor-El sent him not just to propagate whatever was left of his race, but that Kal-El be some kind of guardian/savior for Earth. He gave him a cape and everything, specifically talked about what the "yellow sun" would do to him, and basically wrote out his entire destiny.

[HaemishM]

That's because Richard Donner made shit up that is in no way true to the character. While I enjoy the movies, especially 2, that shit ain't in the comics. Jor-El has alternated between being a plot device to being a well-meaning fucker that manages to aid an authoritarian government.

And the more I think about the Donner movies, even as good as the fighting in #2 was, lots of things about the character are just plain wrong. Giving up the powers to be with Lois Lane... that's just not Superman.

[schild]

Giving up the powers to be with Lois Lane... that's just not Superman.

Love conquers all. That's part of superman.

I really don't know where you're coming up with this stuff. Superman is not the same man as his father. He's the Kent's Son.

Also, Superman has a character has gone through so much back and forth in the comics that it's almost safer to just take the canon from the movies or smallville. They do a better job at most of that shit anyway. Particularly Smallville.

[Sky]

That's because Richard Donner made shit up that is in no way true to the character. While I enjoy the movies, especially 2, that shit ain't in the comics. Jor-El has alternated between being a plot device to being a well-meaning fucker that manages to aid an authoritarian government.

And the more I think about the Donner movies, even as good as the fighting in #2 was, lots of things about the character are just plain wrong. Giving up the powers to be with Lois Lane... that's just not Superman.

But hey....he had a cape!

[HaemishM]

Giving up the powers to be with Lois Lane... that's just not Superman.

Love conquers all. That's part of superman.

I really don't know where you're coming up with this stuff.

Probably from 30 years of reading and enjoying comic books. The movies are not true to the character. Hell, Lois and Clark was truer to the character than either Smallville or the Donner movies.

[stray]

Why do you hate Freedom?

[HaemishM]

Because Freedom's been killed, George Bush has skinned it, is wearing Freedom like he's Leatherface, and is currently fucking me up the ass without even the benefit of a reacharound.

[schild]

Probably from 30 years of reading and enjoying comic books. The movies are not true to the character. Hell, Lois and Clark was truer to the character than either Smallville or the Donner movies.

Maybe the solution is to stop reading the comic books.

I mean, comeon, the fucking cape?

I lolled. Twice.

[Rasix]

You'd think someone that can stomach a DBZ game on the Wii would be able to look past a piece of fabric. 

[Sky]

30 years of reading and enjoying comic books. The movies are not true to the character. Hell, Lois and Clark was truer to the character than either Smallville or the Donner movies.

True to which character, though? 30 years is only part of Supes' legacy, going back to what, the 30s? How many writers and historical revisions has that been, and which is authoritative?

edit: Found this site: http://www.supermanhomepage.com/comics/comics.php?topic=comics-SupermanTimeLine

Sounds like the Man of Steel plotline seems most consistent for his early life, and Smallville captures quite a bit of that.

Disclaimers: I liked Smallville's approach for the most part, with the caveat I mentioned earlier about Lois/Chloe. Also, I was a rabid Marvel fan and disliked DC outside Swamp Thing and Detective comics.

[NowhereMan]

I get what Haemish is saying, the Superman character was never first and foremost about his relationships with others and the effect of hiding his identity on them and himself. It was primarily about Superman fighting teh evil for truth, justice and a big helping of Apple Pie. I know that might come off as derogatory but it was the point of the comic version. Smallville puts the relationships first, it doesn't use his identity as a superpowered incognito as a potential plot point in a supervillian plot but uses the supervillian as a point in the identity plot.

I disagree that the character is different but there's a massive change of focus between Superman in Smallville and Superman, to the extent that it's very much a different sort of story altogether. Superman never used the secret identity thing in the same way that Spiderman did in the comics, it was more often than not a little tool for a bit of extra suspense or comedy.

[Velorath]

Anyways, the show is 7 seasons and counting. It wouldn't have lasted that long if it sucked.

Charmed lasted 8 years.  From what I could tell from the commercials, the last season or two seemed to consist almost entirely of episodes that were flimsy excuses for the women to dress up as Mermaids, or Superheroes, or whatever other fantasies they could work into the show for the lonely guys at home watching.

[stray]

Some shows die a slow death, when they should have ended sooner (X-Files comes to mind). I don't think that's the case with Smallville though. It's getting better over time, not worse.

[HaemishM]

Notice I've never said that Smallville was a BAD show. It actually looks decent from what I've seen. It's just not Superman to me, and thus I can't watch it. Maybe when it's over I'll Netflix the whole thing and curse my self for stupidity. But for now, it just ain't Superman to me. NowhereMan encapsulated my thoughts better than I have.

As for the DBZ Wii game, try it. It really is a shitton better than it has any right to be.

[Ookii]

Just wanted to say yeah Chuck!  Great episode, they managed to up the ante and start a plotline that is more than just an episode or two.

[Johny Cee]

How do you guys manage to talk about Superman in various mediums for a page or two without mentioning the Timm/Dini animated Superman?

[HaemishM]

Because that's a true, iconic version of Superman, and we were talking about Smallville.

[stray]

The Superman in those cartoons is all business. Which is boring to me. Batman or Iron Man are the more interesting "all business" characters to me (probably because they bring their demons to the job). Smallville, otoh, opened up a lot of things about Superman that I never paid attention to -- that of someone struggling with keeping secrets, grasping for some sense of identity, and simply wanting to be normal, but having all kinds of obstacles in the way of that. Similar to the Peter Parker story, I guess.

This may be overstating it, but outside comics, the closest thing that I can think of in comparison to it is the Last Temptation of Christ. The Donner movies tried to touch on that angle briefly too, but Smallville carries the idea further. When it's at it's best at least.

[Trippy]

Just wanted to say yeah Chuck!  Great episode, they managed to up the ante and start a plotline that is more than just an episode or two.

Which is going to get cut off very abruptly unless the strike ends soon

[HaemishM]

Just wanted to say yeah Chuck!  Great episode, they managed to up the ante and start a plotline that is more than just an episode or two.

Yes, awesome episode. I called the ending when I saw the previews for this week's show, but it was still cool to see.

It's funny I didn't recognize the actor playing Brice. He was one of the fugitives on the mediocre Traveller show that ABC ran this past summer.

[Velorath]

Some shows die a slow death, when they should have ended sooner (X-Files comes to mind). I don't think that's the case with Smallville though. It's getting better over time, not worse.

And I think if the show were to last another five years, they'd still be dragging out the story to avoid making him Superman.  They've never seemed to have an overall plan, which is sad because they have point A (Clark living with Ma and Pa Kent in Smallville) and point B (Clark adopting his Superman identity, moving to Metropolis, becoming areporter) and yet they've completely been unable to tell a story that moves from point A to point B because they've decided they can't reach point B until the end of the series.  Instead they bring in points C, D, E, etc... (Clark meeting Lois, the formation of the Justice League) and drop them in the series at random creating a jumbled mess. 

So now we have Clark knowing Lois for several years before he moved to Metropolis (and due to restrictions put in place by WB before Superman Returns released, the writers weren't allowed to hint at a future relationship between the two of them), and pretty much throwing out the whole dynamic of the iconic Superman/Clark/Lois relationship in the process.  Instead of Superman being one of the main inspirations for other superheroes, we have him more or less following the Green Arrow's lead?  I agree with Haem.  This really isn't Superman.

[stray]

Pa Kent is dead, Ma Kent became a State Senator (and is moving to US Senator/DC). Clark is preparing to pack up to go to Fortress of Solitude to finally listen to what Jor-El wants to teach him -- but first, he must get rid of some Phantom Zone stragglers... Which he just finished up with. Supergirl has complicated things a bit though. Lex is becoming shittier than ever, and it's unlikely him and Clark will ever be "buddies" again. Green Arrow is waiting for Clark to do what has to do, but he's pretty much expecting him to join his team. Lois is finally a reporter.

I don't know dude.. Seems like it's moving on from typical Smallville based stuff to me.

[edit] Oh, and he's hardly following the Green Arrow. Do you guys just talk without watching or what? Green Arrow has explicitly said how he can't measure up to him, and doesn't understand why he doesn't join now.

[MrHat]

So, how many seasons is Smallville?

[stray]

It's on 7 now, but if you haven't watched it, you could just start at 5 or something (and maybe brush up on the early eps as well).

[Xanthippe]

Is it worth going back to season 1 and watching?  My brother has been a big fan and recommended it to me, but I quite got around to watching it.  (Read the comics as a kid, though in the 60s).  Is it still about the fight for truth, justice and the American way, or has it become pc?

[stray]

Yeah, it's worth watching season 1. Yeah, he fights for justice and all that, but he's still figuring himself out at that stage too, which is kind of the show's charm. The only real problem with the first season is that the writing is a bit serialized. The stories themselves can be cool, but it can get on your nerves a bit if you like longer story arcs like me.

[Bunk]

I liked the first few seasons of Smallville. I watched them at first partly because they filmed half of it within a mile of where I grew up, but it was still entertaining. The "cafe" Lana ends up owning is actually the local cheapy movie theatre in a town called Cloverdale. The show lost me once they started reaching the Indian burial ground (I'm 1/8 Mi'kmaq, I don't have to say native 'merican) and the Jor'el crap.

Oh yea, the reason I came here. Just watched BSG Razor. Enjoyed it, hyped me for the next season like it should have. Nice to see Michele Forbes playing supreme psycho again. If you haven't seen it, it has a cameoish appearance that made my inner 70's fanboi goo.

"By your command."

[Merusk]

If you haven't seen it, it has a cameoish appearance that made my inner 70's fanboi goo.

"By your command."

Heh.. I had the same reaction.  My wife just shook her head at me as I explained why it was so awesome.

[bhodi]

Razor was good; Helena Cain is a total bitch and I'm glad she'd dead. I'd have mutinied and tried to kill her myself.

Please explain the by your command and the gold dealie. I never watched the original. I surmised that the originals were offshoots and evolutionary dead-ends and will never be mentioned in the series again. and the gold one was some sort of leader caste.