Television thread

[Abagadro]

You guys are on crack. That finale was great.  I loved how Cox was basically the Greek Chorus for the episode with his opening soliloquy and was instrumental in getting Hearst to beat feet. His character finally paid off.

Al was masterful the entire episode and Johnny finally got some balls. Utter was awesome in his confrontation with Hearst and his thug in the voting line.

What did you expect? A street war?  They always knew they were outgunned, outmanned and outmaneuvered with Hearst. The shot of Hawkeye's people was hillarious as they were so pathetic.  Rag-tag townies don't get over on someone like George Hearst.  They were always in survival mode and managed to survive. That was all they could ever hope for.  

This was filmed before it was established it wasn't coming back so of course there was no grand conclusion.  Powerful people like Hearst don't get a "comeuppance" that would make you feel all fuzzy. Hell, he died as a U.S. Senator.

[Margalis]

BSG is ok but I can't get into it because the pacing is just atrocious.

[Johny Cee]

You guys are on crack. That finale was great.  I loved how Cox was basically the Greek Chorus for the episode with his opening soliloquy and was instrumental in getting Hearst to beat feet. His character finally paid off.

Al was masterful the entire episode and Johnny finally got some balls. Utter was awesome in his confrontation with Hearst and his thug in the voting line.

What did you expect? A street war?  They always knew they were outgunned, outmanned and outmaneuvered with Hearst. The shot of Hawkeye's people was hilarious as they were so pathetic.  Rag-tag townies don't get over on someone like George Hearst.  They were always in survival mode and managed to survive. That was all they could ever hope for.  

This was filmed before it was established it wasn't coming back so of course there was no grand conclusion.  Powerful people like Hearst don't get a "comeuppance" that would make you feel all fuzzy. Hell, he died as a U.S. Senator.

My problem is that the "Hearst vs. town" plot was hugely watered down by the inclusion of marginal or forgettable plot threads.  The fact that the plot had to come out with Hearst winning meant that you had a...  18 or 20 episode buildup over the course of 2 years for nothing, because of the way the last few episodes were handled.

If you can never use the threat of violence/extermination, then the characters behavior becomes unbelievable posturing for the camera.  If you wanted to emphasize that "surviving=win" then you needed to stress and pile on the characters' vulnerabilities, desperation, slim chances, etc.

If you're going to have a anti-climatic winddown that proves that plot/story is unimportant,  you better have some great characters with interesting and witty interactions.  Season 1 & 2 had the characters and the interactions,  season 3.... not so good.

[Abagadro]

I disagree that it was anticlimactic. It is more that the characters we rooted for essentially lost, which makes it more of a tragic ending. The final shot of Al scrubbing his floor, literally with the blood of the innocent on his hands was pretty powerful if you ask me.

I also disagree that there was a lack of good/witty character interaction, but that is likely more personal taste/opinion.

[Cheddar]

BattleStar Galactica news:

September 5th "webisodes" will air.  Evidently they will be through www.scifi.com/pulse/ , 10 episodes total, and will feature events between the second and third series.  Also, a new series is currently in development.  It is titled "Caprica" and will take place 50 years before the current episodes.

My fan boi meter just blew!

[schild]

Great. Another series. I bet it'll be awesome like Atlantis. Or Lone Gunmen.

In GOOD tv news, new episode of House next week. Also, Grey's Anatomy. I expect Heroes to air in a week or so as well, but whether or not that's good TV or a Colors of Benetton ad in disguise is yet to be seen.

[Cheddar]

Great. Another series. I bet it'll be awesome like Atlantis. Or Lone Gunmen.

In GOOD tv news, new episode of House next week. Also, Grey's Anatomy. I expect Heroes to air in a week or so as well, but whether or not that's good TV or a Colors of Benetton ad in disguise is yet to be seen.

Whats with the negativity lately?  You getting all gothic on us?  I think you just need a hug!

Greys Anatomy.  <snicker>

[schild]

What negativity? If it's directed to television sci-fi, WoW, or UO MMOGs - I can't really say it counts. So I ask! What negativity?

[Wolf]

Did they air the pilot of Heroes or was it some leak or something like that? Anyway, it was boring, dull and uninspired.

House 

[Engels]

House is to Grey's Anatomy as Hill Street Blues is to Dukes of Hazzard mang.

[HaemishM]

I think Heroes isn't until the 25th of Sept.

About the Deadwood finale, I don't think it was so anticlimatic as it was not meant to be the ending. They didn't discover it was the last regular show until after it was done. As a setup for season 4, I thought it worked fine. Had it been the last thing ever, it would have been galling.

[Simond]

Speaking of sci-fi on telly: Kirk shot first!

[Yegolev]

I also have my reservations about a BSG spinoff.  BSG is (was?) great, but unless the writers have so much extra energy that they can devote it to another series, it's just going to be Typical TV Writers and end up being the DS9 of this universe.

[HaemishM]

it's just going to be Typical TV Writers and end up being the DS9 of this universe.

You mean superior to the show it spun off from in every way except ratings?

[Yegolev]

it's just going to be Typical TV Writers and end up being the DS9 of this universe.

You mean superior to the show it spun off from in every way except ratings?

I can't have a coherent discussion with anyone who likes DS9.

[HaemishM]

DS9 was a decent show, and actually went beyond the "solve all problems with completely made-up tech terms" formula that TNG fell back on. Better characters (mostly), better plots, better everything.

[Abagadro]

DS9 got going once they changed Commander Sisko into Captain Hawk and they gave him a cool ship.  They still should have given him a big-ass chrome .45 though.

[Triforcer]

DS9 was a decent show, and actually went beyond the "solve all problems with completely made-up tech terms" formula that TNG fell back on. Better characters (mostly), better plots, better everything.

REVERSE POLARITY, DAMMIT!

[Johny Cee]

About the Deadwood finale, I don't think it was so anticlimatic as it was not meant to be the ending. They didn't discover it was the last regular show until after it was done. As a setup for season 4, I thought it worked fine. Had it been the last thing ever, it would have been galling.

It's a major problem with the series' tempo if they're slow playing the plot to stretch out through multiple seasons/years at a glacial pace without any kind of intermediary plots or resolutions.  If you're a casual viewer,  or if you just don't bother to rewatch old episodes,  you start missing important details from 2-3 years ago that are being dragged out as plot devices currently. 

It's a good way to turn a decent or entertaining series with a continuing storyline into a self-referential circle jerk that alienates the casual viewer.  Look at the last few seasons of X-files, for instance.  I used to watch that show off and on until about the 5th or 6th season when you couldn't tell who was dead or not, and what exactly the sides/plot lines were, etc. without keeping a journal.

I had no clue for a while who the hell Hawkeye was, before folks here reminded me he was Adams old partner from season 2.  And all of a sudden in the last 2 or 3 episodes he became an important figure that got referred to a bunch. 

After seeing season 3 in it's entirety,  I don't have much of a problem with the cancellation.  Obviously, HBO had issues with Milch's pacing and lack of intermediate storylines/resolutions.  The original HBO offer of 6 or 8 episodes in season 4 to wrap up the series would have meant Milch could have parsed out the filler storylines (theater group; anything with Kahn & Tolliver's flunkies; cut back the EB/Richardson stuff, the Joanie/Jane stuff, the Joanie/Tolliver stuff, the Steve the Drunk stuff, the fire engine, the Aunt Lou stuff, etc.) while finishing the main conflicts.

The secondary/tertiary plots are good in small doses,  but the amount of time devoted to some of them was amazing.

Season 2 was better,  with the intermediate plot involving Wolcott that resolved in the last episode while at the same time setting up the season 3 conflict with Hearst.  Season 2 just felt more focused.

[Margalis]

Sounds like DS9 where often times the irrelevant subplot would be the main point of the episode.

DS9 as originally conceived had a huge problem in that without a ship they can't really have any adventures other than people invading the space station, which seemed to happen an awful lot in the first few seasons.

In TNG you can fly to some new planet and have wacky adventures, in DS9 the adventures have to come to you.

---

I also had a real problem when they introduced the Dominion and the episode where the Enterprise-class ship gets destroyed. The entire thing seemed really stupid, send a giant ship with hundreds of crew on it to rescue one guy or something like that. I forget the exact details but I remember it being really contrived in that it was some of the dumbest tactics ever. Risk our biggest and best ship with hundreds of crew when we are clearly getting our asses kicked...

[stray]

What's with "Tourgasm" anyways? I never heard of Dane Cook before, but the audience attendance at his stand-up shows are like rock concerts. Some of these are like arena sized venues. Thousands of people surrounding a center stage with this guy telling half-assed Seinfeld meets Fratboy jokes. And they don't laugh at him -- They scream. They go freaking wild everytime the guy opens his mouth.

And apparently, he's a good and popular enough comedian to have an HBO series that documents the "behind the scenes" of his tour, but not the actual stand-up routine. According to HBO, he's so good that I shouldn't really have to hear his jokes at all.

[Abagadro]

The actual concert is on HBO tomorrow night.  Here's an interesting take on him:

http://www.salon.com/ent/tv/review/2006/09/03/dane_cook/

[stray]

Amazing. I could have probably written that same article word for word. Must be some "shared experience" thing for people who don't like Dane Cook, in the same way Cook shares complete and utter bullshit with his audience.


Though I would disagree on the point that HBO is forsaking other interests. They've also been good to Bill Maher (something like 4 specials, as well as the fantastic Bill Maher Show). He is everything Dane Cook is not.

[Margalis]

I remember hearing about Dane Cook recently and I thought to myself "is that the same guy they show of 4 year old repeats of premium blend on Comedy Central who does the routine about the ex-girlfriend from Aliens? WTF!"

His "humor" is horrible. I think he just plays to the college crowd who go for "the experience" more than any real value. I was really confused when I started hearing about how popular he is now, since he's just a jobber with zero talent.

[Llava]

You guys are full of shit.

Standup comedy is one of the things I'm really into, and I have a lot of it.  Dane Cook, while overrated, is a funny guy most of the time.  He's no Mitch Hedberg or Patton Oswalt, but he's a funny fucking guy.  If you can't see that, you're too old for comedy.

As he goes more and more blue, I feel his act gets weaker, and I wish he'd turn it around and start doing stuff like he did on his half hour special for Comedy Central.  That was him at his best- funny in the same way that Robot Chicken is funny.  "Dangerous If Swallowed" was a good performance, but "Retaliation", while it had some classic moments, was definitely weaker.

Are his jokes political or philosophical?  Fuck no.  He's just up there making people laugh.  If you can't get into that, you've made comedy too complicated.

Most of the press surrounding him, though, is because he's a good looking and young guy, and there really aren't any of those in comedy.  Women want to fuck him.  He gets groupies.  That's pretty unique.

[stray]

If you can't see that, you're too old for comedy.

What does that mean really? I don't understand.

Whatever it means, the guy is 5 years older than me. And I'm probably just 5 years older than you.

Granted, I didn't go to college and fratboys come in second on my hate list, but that really doesn't matter. I'm quite capable of being entertained by people of all walks of life. Hell, my favorite comedian ever is a British transvestite who does a big bulk of his act entirely in French -- Without translation at that. And I still find it hilarious. Carlin, Maher, and Penn Gillette are rabid atheists, more or less, while I'm a Christian, and I love those guys. I have every single Richard Pryor album -- and he's a dead black man who once lit himself on fire smoking crack. I have little in common with him either.

Rita freakin' Rudner is funnier than Dane Cook.

I'm really that unimpressed by him. I would barely even call him a comedian, let alone a funny one. I'd like to think that he's just the fortunate beneficiary of stupid friends in high places. Or that he sold his soul to Tony Robbins. I don't know.

[schild]

Dane Cook really isn't that funny.

Neither is Mitch Hedberg really. For that matter, drug jokes never did it for me unless they came from George Carlin.

It's not a matter of being too old for comedy. It's a matter of not laughing at shitty jokes.

Dane Cook is kinda like Battlestar Galactica.

[Llava]

The thing is, Dane Cook got really popular when Comedy Central aired his half hour special and everyone who saw it made a big deal out of it.  He's in my top 5 for those, easily.  And this happened before he got really famous.  I hadn't heard of him, I saw the special, I made an effort to remember his name and check him out more.  If I got into him then, is it so unbelievable to imagine that other people just agreed with me?  Given that he's been doing standup since the early 90's, is it hard to imagine that he's refined a style that, while it might not appeal to you specifically, appeals to a lot of people?  Because it doesn't appeal to you specifically, does that make him untalented and unfunny?

And it has nothing to do with hating fratboys.  I hate them with the white hot passion of the sun, but I still like Dane Cook.

Him, Dimitri Martin, Mitch Hedberg, Dwayne Kennedy, and Brian Posehn all had fantastic specials that made me want to learn more.

Unfortunately, Dane Cook is undergoing what happened with Ron White- he's getting more exposure than he has material.  Ron White just kept throwing out the same jokes that worked before, and Dane Cook is hastily trying to make up more jokes, with limited success in my opinion but it's selling so more power to him.

Is he as amazing as people are treating him?  No, not really.  But he was good enough to stand out.

(Schild's opinion doesn't count.  The only things in the world he seems to think are funny are Family Guy, "GENTLEMEN... MORE CORN!" and that horrifying Hulk comic.)

[Margalis]

You have to admit his incredible popularity is pretty silly. The guy is not any funnier than 100 other comics. He just appeals to the right demographics.

[Llava]

The extreme popularity he has is excessive, yes, as I've said.  But he's good enough to stand out among the crowd.

(Forgot to mention Todd Glass in the list of comedians above.  But he's only really strong when he's making fun of standup comedy cliches.  "My dad was always in the wrong business.  Like we'd call the plumber, '$100 for plumbing? I must be in the wrong business!' Or at a restaurant, '$7 for a hamburger? I must be in the wrong business!' One time I heard him haggling with a hooker, '$20 for a handjob? I must be in the wrong business!' And I keep doing the bit over and over and over.")

Neither is as good as Demetri Martin, though.

[Sky]

Dane Cook, while overrated, is a funny guy most of the time.  He's no Mitch Hedberg or Patton Oswalt, but he's a funny fucking guy.

Man, that show Patton was doing about his tour was pretty good. Except that Zack douche that my girlfriend labelled the 'comedy dementor' (instead of sucking out life like a dementor, he sucked out the funny). Patton and Brian just sitting around laughing about how geeky they are is funnier than Cook imo.

I know taste is subjective, but I don't know how you can't like Mitch. My girlfriend doesn't like drug humor at all and has to laugh when he's on, because he was hilarious. Sure, he's no Carlin....but Carlin is no Carlin anymore. Got too bitter after the FCC battle imo.

I wondered where I recognized Martin's name, from the Daily Show, one of the few shows I watched not cancelled this year. I'm really going to miss Rob Cordry, he was comedy gold. Whenever I see a Hummer I think of 'Cut to my hooptie' and him driving from the back of the Hummer to the front in a compact car.

[stray]

"The Comedians of Comedy" was the name of Patton's special. Yeah, that was pretty funny.


I liked Mitch Hedberg. I don't see him as a "stoner" act so much as I do a "Stoner Steven Wright" act. And Steven Wright is hilarious. The stoner part of Mitch was just a brand of delivery. Sometimes funny in itself, but not the actual gimmick.

[Llava]

The subject matter of his jokes infrequently deal with drugs.

"I like an escalator, because an escalator can never break.  It can only become stairs.  There will never be an 'Escalator Out Of Order' sign.  Only 'Escalator, Temporarily Stairs.... Sorry For The Convenience'."

I'm surprised you don't like Zach Galifianakis.  His style is similar to Mitch's, just minus the stoner tone of voice and slightly more absurd.  The first three minutes or so are a bit weak, but once he starts doing his characters I crack up, and most of the jokes with his piano are gold.  I didn't get to see all of Comedians of Comedy, unfortunately, so I didn't get an impression of him on that, just from his half hour special.

Patton Oswalt had a special previous to Comedians of Comedy, just a standard half hour (maybe an hour, can't remember) standup performance.  His Facts About Midgets are priceless.

[schild]

(Schild's opinion doesn't count. The only things in the world he seems to think are funny are Family Guy, "GENTLEMEN... MORE CORN!" and that horrifying Hulk comic.)

Come now. That's not even remotely all that I find funny. But let's just take a long look at the comics discussed here.

If we were to make a tiered list, would it look something like this?

A. Robin Williams, George Carlin, Bill Cosby, Seinfeld, Richard Pryor, etc.
B. Jon Stewart, Lewis Black, Dave Chapelle, Chris Rock, Pauly Shore's Dad, Stephen Wright etc.
C. Everyone else.

I know. That list is entirely unfair. I gerrymandered it. No one has the balls to drop Chapelle in the same category as Cosby. No one is going to say Stewart is a better satirist than Carlin (though he may be, but Carlin had a much better vocabulary being a linguist and all - also, Stewart is kind of a pussy). And most certainly Hedberg, Cook and the like are not going to be placed in the second category because - while they may write their own jokes - none of them are completely original. And none of them are even remotely near as funny as say Chappele or Black when they're "on."

That said, what a bunch of third tier fucking predictable daytime comedy hacks. Keke.

[Llava]

Come now. That's not even remotely all that I find funny.

I know,  I'm just being a smartass because you don't like Futurama or the Simpsons and I don't understand that, but whenever I've been around you you're laughing most of the time so you definitely find something funny.

By the way, I changed my avatar to St. Augustine in reference to us going to Austin.  Still available are Stone Cold Steve Austin, Austin Powers, The $6million Man Steve Austin, and way more I'm not thinking about.  But no one's going to do this but me, are they?  Hrmph.  Fine, I'll just be the only cool one then.