Television thread

[stray]

But....Deadwood has a huge budget as it is. Same with Rome.

People simply aren't watching them, that's all. Don't blame HBO. Hell, they were the ones who had the guts to actually make TV shows based off of ancient Rome, a traveling carnival troupe, a funeral home business, a Mormon polygamist, and the Wild West in the first place --- Which nobody else is doing. If there wasn't an HBO, you wouldn't have gotten any of it. They deserve some credit.

[Yegolev]

(and I'm a huge Clancy Brown fan)

He and I share a birthday.

[Abagadro]

But....Deadwood has a huge budget as it is. Same with Rome.

People simply aren't watching them, that's all. Don't blame HBO. Hell, they were the ones who had the guts to actually make TV shows based off of ancient Rome, a traveling carnival troupe, a funeral home business, a Mormon polygamist, and the Wild West in the first place --- Which nobody else is doing. If there wasn't an HBO, you wouldn't have gotten any of it. They deserve some credit.

My point being that Deadwood could have had more seasons, not that more money could be spent on it right now.  And HBO doesn't make its money on ratings, it makes it on subscriptions. Getting people into great shows only to yank them away is not a good way to ensure retention.

[WayAbvPar]

Agreed. I was all set to cancel HBO after Deadwood was over. Then I got hooked on Entourage. I should probably just buy the DVDs after this season though; cheaper than paying $15 a month or whatever they are raping me for.


Poor Ellsworth. Didn't even get a chance to take any of Hearst's hired guns out with him. That sucked.

[HaemishM]

Yeah, I had to rewind that part of Deadwood to make sure Ellsworth got capped. That sucked, because I really loved that character. And who knows how fucking long we'll have to wait to finish the story once the season is done. They haven't specified a starting point for the movies have they?

I loved the direction on this episode, especially the closeups on E.B. and some of the shots of Al. They just fit the situation so perfectly.

[Wolf]

But....Deadwood has a huge budget as it is. Same with Rome.

Ummm...? Is Rome canceled? I was wondering what the fuck happened to it... They came and shot the second season here (Bulgaria), 'cause it's cheap so I naturally assumed they were at least going to air that. Never really heard anything about it after that.

[Big Gulp]

Ummm...? Is Rome canceled? I was wondering what the fuck happened to it... They came and shot the second season here (Bulgaria), 'cause it's cheap so I naturally assumed they were at least going to air that. Never really heard anything about it after that.

They trimmed down season 2 from the usual 12 episode allotment to 10 episodes, and it will apparently be the last season.  It also sounds like they'll have to drastically speed up the pace, because from what I hear they're planning on going all the way to when Octavian received the title of Augustus.  He was well into middle age by that point, so we're talking a timeframe of 30-40 years they're going to have to breeze through in 10 episodes.  Sure, they accelerated the timeline in season 1, but not that drastically.  So much so that they're going to have to replace Max Pirkis, because there's no way in hell he'd be able to play a man in his 30's or 40's.

I don't necessarily mind that shows get cancelled.  I do mind shows being cancelled without resolution when I'm paying a subscription to watch them.  And that's why I cancelled HBO earlier today.

[HaemishM]

Yeah, I never understood the impetus behind the cancellation of things like Carnivale. It can't be for bad ratings, because they don't make their money off of ratings. The only thing I can figure is that someone at HBO isn't happy with the cost vs. profit from DVD sales. Rome I can understand, as it's damn expensive. I wasn't aware Deadwood cost as much but that may be because of all the talent in the cast. It's still a damn shame.

[Johny Cee]

Yeah, I never understood the impetus behind the cancellation of things like Carnivale. It can't be for bad ratings, because they don't make their money off of ratings. The only thing I can figure is that someone at HBO isn't happy with the cost vs. profit from DVD sales. Rome I can understand, as it's damn expensive. I wasn't aware Deadwood cost as much but that may be because of all the talent in the cast. It's still a damn shame.

I think it's earlier in this thread, but Deadwood is really really expensive to shoot.  Period pieces generally are,  and the huge cast on Deadwood must not help...  I remember reading something about union minimum salaries for recurring actors/"listed in credits" being fairly onerous,  which is why so many shows have a small stable of main characters with others only showing up enough for "guest" status.

HBO must have some formula they use to calculate ratings as a function of subscribers brought in....

Sopranos, despite not being as good or as popular as it used to be,  still generally dwarfs the rest of the lineup in ratings.

I put alot of the blame on the creator of Deadwood...  David Milch, right?  He knew the show was getting poor ratings for the budget,  and HBO offered him an out to close up the series (6 or 8 episode season),  and he passed.  That's more than alot of networks do....  the fact that he was pushing his surf-drama thing must not have helped him out.

For all that I like Deadwood,  you have to admit the pace of the show is glacial.  This past season,  we spent 6 or 8 episodes with barely anything happening while we had to follow a huge number of plotlines that were just not very good.  Kahn (Caan?) and whatever the hell he was doing,  Jane, way too much Steve the Drunk (reminds me of how much Sopranos focused on Vito), the ultimately pointless Ellsworth/opium/Mr. Ellsworth moving out thread, the theater troop, etc.

The show tends to suffer when they don't feature the actors that chew up the scenery....  Al, the Doctor, Bullock, Tolliver....  And many of the more entertaining minor characters were used poorly or ignored.  Udder is a pretty interesting character,  and plays well off of the mains.  Jane is better playing off of Udder the rest.  Sol Star was massively underused,  and Trixie was given not much real meat.  WOO! who disappeared for most of the season.

Spoilers

Last episode was great, don't get me wrong.  Should have known Mr. Ellsworth was going to end up dead...  every character that isn't an asshole (Al, Tolliver) or tragically flawed (Jane, Bullock, the Doctor) gets killed real fast.  I honestly expect Mrs. Bullock or Udder to buy it some time soon.

I just wish they had cut the buildup down a few episodes and kicked off the climax a couple episodes back.  Even if there was going to be a new season,  I don't see how this one could have ended on anything but an anticlimatic note.

[Wolf]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh. They cancled SG-1.

What the fuck? And after the 200th episode which was fucking awesome.  I've been watching that for YEARS.

[Merusk]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh. They cancled SG-1.

What the fuck? And after the 200th episode which was fucking awesome.  I've been watching that for YEARS.

It was only a matter of time.  I begin to think Ben Bowder really pissed some exec over at Sci-Fi off.

For a moment I thought it was the expense, then I remembered BSG which has to be much more expensive.  Wonder if that'll survive another year. 

That article mentions Sci-Fi is a top-10 cable network.  Really? The fuck? I can't tolerate anything on it anymore with the exception of BSG, am I missing something here?

[Johny Cee]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh. They cancled SG-1.

What the fuck? And after the 200th episode which was fucking awesome.  I've been watching that for YEARS.

It was only a matter of time.  I begin to think Ben Bowder really pissed some exec over at Sci-Fi off.

For a moment I thought it was the expense, then I remembered BSG which has to be much more expensive.  Wonder if that'll survive another year. 

That article mentions Sci-Fi is a top-10 cable network.  Really? The fuck? I can't tolerate anything on it anymore with the exception of BSG, am I missing something here?

Obviously you underestimate the draw of cliched B-grade monster movies.

[Sky]

SG-1 cancelled? Now I'm down to 3 shows on normal cable. Maybe by the time I buy a house they'll have cancelled everything I watch. One can hope. I don't see the Daily Show being cancelled any time soon, but I thought that about Stewart's great talk show.

I wish they'd cancel that shitty BSG. And every movie SciFi has ever made. Mansquito? Really?

Ironically, this is the first year since Season Four that plans were already in place, both creatively and in signed actor contracts, for another year.

And that sucks. I don't think they'll be able to close the story arcs, unless they somehow do it via cameos on SG-A.

[Yegolev]

I was, at one time, afraid they might merge SG-1 and SG-A.  Looks more likely now.

[Evil Elvis]

Carnivale at least somewhat deserved its cancellation.  The last 4 episodes of the 2nd season were a complete mess.

I wish they'd cancel that shitty BSG.

*record-needle-screeching-off-the-track*

BSG is the best thing Sci-Fi's ever aired.  This includes shows with muppets, and belt-buckle headed aliens.

[Sky]

My old grief title was 'Heathen' for my views on the BSG crapfest.

We watched the Spike Lee flick about Katrina on HBO, it was intense. There were four acts, and only act three was a little weak (Spike being Spike), the rest was required viewing for all Americans imo. Make sure the kiddies are in bed, though. Bloated bodies and f-bombs galore.

[Big Gulp]

That's it?!?!

Talk about an anti-climax.  You've got 18 of Hawkeye's thugs, plus a midget who's apparently good with a knife, 150 of Wu's chung kuo motherfuckers, and a whole posse of Hearst's Pinkerton's and nothing happens?  The only body in the episode was the scapegoat whore's...  What about Sophia and Ellsworth, etc?

[schild]

BSG was a shitty political drama disguised as shitty sci-fi.

[stray]

Gonna have to agree.

[Rasix]

BSG was a shitty political drama disguised as shitty sci-fi.

IT HURTS MY EARS. I'd be amused to hear what you consider good sci-fi. It'd probably include Nic Cage in some way.

At least you can recommend a good RPG. So, you've got that going for you..

[schild]

Good sci-fi?

Are you kidding?

On TV?

I dunno, maybe an episode or two of X-Files. The rest was awesome government drama disguised as shitty sci-fi.

[stray]

I'll try not to be too negative, but BSG doesn't contain many of elements of sci-fi that I usually gravitate towards. I've commented on it's militaristic theme before, so I won't get into that. The main reason why I don't like it is that there's just no sense of adventure, mystery, or otherwordliness to it that I tend to associate with science fiction. I don't feel like I'm being transported anywhere. The BSG world seems to be 100 times less stimulating than my own.

[Engels]

BSG is Vampire The Masquerade IN SPAAAACE!! A notch down from Deep Space 9, and lord knows that was a pile of crap. Last decent sci-fi out there was Firefly, then before that Farscape, but even that lost steam towards the end. Even Star Trek Enterprise was a better show than BSG by far, and I refer to Enterprise as 'Teh Republican years'.

[stray]

Deep Space Nine had some of the same bleak undertones, but at least not everything was like that. It's Trek -- it can't be too unadventurous or negative, no matter how hard you try, whether you place the characters on a space station, or toss them in a galactic war. Quite a few DS9 episodes were some of the funniest things in Trek, I think. Especially this one. Any of the episodes with this guy were always great as well.

[Xerapis]

Please realize that shortly after I conquer this pitiful planet..

I will execute all those who dislike BSG and DS9.

You have been warned.

[stray]

See, I said I wasn't going to be negative, but now you're threatening conquest.

It's not Vampire the Masquerade in SPAAAACE. It's worse. It's part Flight 93 in SPAAAACE and part shitty Nam flick like Hamburger Hill in SPAAAACE. Sci-fi couldn't be more depressing. And boring.

Secondly, there are few portraits of the universe, life, and cultures around the characters and their war. Few moments of civilian pleasures or off duty storylines -- It's like going to a party and hearing someone talking about their job all night. It's all business and war and bad actors playing space marines.

Thirdly, no Han Solo. Fuck all of the characters in BSG. They're all sheep.

And the ladies...Man, the ladies. Every single one of them (except the robot!!) is so butch, they make Tasha Yar look like Strawberry Shortcake.



A cigar? Are you fucking kidding me?

You know who she reminds of?

This guy:



Third Rock from the Sun is more compelling sci-fi than Battlestar Galactica.

[Sairon]

BSG is one of the few sci-fi series I can bare to watch. I've seen some eps of the old school trek, and some of enterprise. I simply can't stomach it, it just gets to fucking silly once they start talking about technology. Also, unless it's comedy, I can't keep the intrest up in series where it doesn't matter if I miss 50 episodes, where there's no meaningful plot advancement at all.

[Miasma]

I'm glad other people also hate BSG, it's a fucking terrible show.  I'd cite specific examples but I have blocked out almost all the memories.  The only really stupid thing I remember is the pointless parallel of the flower nuclear girl that got killed.  I threw out the first season DVDs I bought (which I only purchased because so many people here liked it) so that they could not be viewed again.

[Llava]

Last decent sci-fi out there was Firefly

Though I really enjoy Firefly, I have to question classifying it as sci-fi.  It happens to be set in the future, but all of the themes and plots make me classify it as a Western.

[HaemishM]

Third Rock from the Sun is more compelling sci-fi than Battlestar Galactica.

And Starship Troopers (the book) was bad political commentary disguised as sci-fi.

Oh wait, no it wasn't. I'd really be interested to see what you think is GOOD sci-fi. BSG is great drama with a sci-fi tilt. It doesn't need "Beedeebeedebee" Twiki to make it good sci-fi.

EDIT: Good sci-fi has more to do with just having "teh futchure" or technology or alien cultures. The science/alien/tech stuff is just a prop for a good story. When it becomes the focus of the story, you have the shitties parts of Star Trek, or the Matrix.

[stray]

Last decent sci-fi out there was Firefly

Though I really enjoy Firefly, I have to question classifying it as sci-fi.  It happens to be set in the future, but all of the themes and plots make me classify it as a Western.

Western motifs, yeah, but I don't see western themes. Still looks like sci-fi to me.

Dune has elements that resemble stories containing the clash between imperial and native cultures, like the ones you'd see in Last of the Mohicans. In other places, it resembles Anna Karenina or War and Peace. In others, the Bible or Koran. The story is set 10,000 years in the future, and looks more like something from the 7th, 18th, or 19th century. There's virtual no space travel, no computers, and barely any kind of warfare outside blades and hand to hand combat. Not even Firefly is that much of a throwback to older times. And yet, Dune is considered one of the greatest (if not "the" greatest) sci-fi stories ever.

[Sky]

Yay, a sci-fi definition argument. The internet loves those.

I think good sci-fi is that which is based on fictional science.

[stray]

Hey, I'm just trying to have a conversation with Llava. Didn't know it was going to be some big internet event.

[Johny Cee]

That's it?!?!

Talk about an anti-climax.  You've got 18 of Hawkeye's thugs, plus a midget who's apparently good with a knife, 150 of Wu's chung kuo motherfuckers, and a whole posse of Hearst's Pinkerton's and nothing happens?  The only body in the episode was the scapegoat whore's...  What about Sophia and Ellsworth, etc?

Yah.  Fuck.  THIS IS WHY YOU GOT CANCELLED.

I mean....  You could take this season,  cut out all the useless and boring scenes and plotlines,  paste it together and have maybe 2 or 3 hours of decent TV.  And most of that would be Al and Woo. (I'm looking at you Steve the Drunk and Theater People.  Get out.)

The two redeeming moments:  Tolliver gets back to being an evil bastard,  and Al has a conversation with the indian head in the box for the first time this season.

Is Venture Bros. a new episode next week?

[Rasix]

The two redeeming moments:  Tolliver gets back to being an evil bastard,  and Al has a conversation with the indian head in the box for the first time this season.

He talked to Chief Head-in-a-box before the Dan/Sea Creature fight.