Warhammer - Xbox 360 + Squigs + Video Interview

[Morfiend]

Let's make some predictions about the numbers Warhammer will get in EU and US. Let's see who will go closer. My idea is that the reasonable goal that Mythic should take nearly as an imperative (meaning that it won't be a "success" and that they should start dancing if they reach it, but that the devs should work *hard* to reach it) is the 250-280k EU+US that DAoC had at its peak. Anything less would be a delusion (in particular with the silly claims above) and I don't think that the game will move too far away from that number (meaning that I don't expect them going far above either).

If it's stable and polished at release, if the starter areas are newb friendly and if the high end game is feature complete I'll stick my neck out for 500k EU+US at release.  That's a lot of if's though.  Post WoW with a license so similar but with greater depth, I can't imagine them aiming for less.

Im going to agree with AP. I think WAR will get more box sales than a lot of people think. I think a lot of WOWs PVPers are looking to WAR as the second coming, also a bunch of the "My First MMOG" crowd are going to be looking to try some thing new. I predict a hugh release, with a sharp drop off around 1 or 2 months in, when people realize it is not as polished as WOW.

[angry.bob]

It’s going to be 500,000+, easily. AS far as not being as “polished” as WoW, I’m going to strongly disagree. WoW, has “style”, not polish. Their DB is crap, their servers are crap, their weekly maintenance is crap, their dev cycle is glacial, and they’re still working on annoying problems that everyone else solved before the year 2000. Want to switch characters? Close the client and log in, WTF? Get dropped and need to log in with the same character? HAHAHA, that’s even worse. Hope you weren’t in the middle of fighting something. One the other hand, the one thing you can’t accuse Mythic of is lack of polish. Other than some iffy pathing involving pets in dungeons,  DAoC was/is technically flawless. Assuming they’ve learned the right lessons from DaoC (support classes in PvP suck to play, raiding for superpowers breaks your game, semi-random magic item generation FTW, thier guild and housing systems), grab the right stuff from WoW (qwest system, fast leveling, the entire level 1-59 game), mixed with the GW IP will make WAR a much more appealing game than people are giving them credit for. And honestly, the alpha build of WAR already has way more visual appeal than WoW.

And even the style of WoW is iffy. Games Workshop is notorious for using their IP to shut down competitors, even tiny mom and pop operations. It would not surprise me in the least if they served Blizzard with C&D papers on the Orc, goblin, and possibly Dwarves right around launch. And the best part is there is no credible argument that Blizzard could use to say that they didn’t lift the Orc and Goblin visuals straight from GW. They’ve even said they did.  Blizzard shouldn’t be worried about War as a competitor, they should be worried about Games Workshop as a copyright holder with a demonstrated history of using their IP to club the fuck out of people until they cease to exist.

[Chenghiz]

I think what he's referring to is visual polish - you know, effects that look good, not just functional, well-done textures, high framerate, characters that don't look like total ass and move like robots.

Also, if you want to change characters in WoW, you log out and change, log back in. You don't have to exit the client.

[Morfiend]

I think what he's referring to is visual polish - you know, effects that look good, not just functional, well-done textures, high framerate, characters that don't look like total ass and move like robots.

Also, if you want to change characters in WoW, you log out and change, log back in. You don't have to exit the client.

Exactually what I was talking about. If there is one thing Blizzard does right its visual polish.

[HRose]

It’s going to be 500,000+, easily.

WoW, has “style”, not polish.

DAoC was/is technically flawless.

I'm amazed.

Btw, it's interesting how WoW tricked EVERYONE into believing that subscribers grow on trees.

The market has NOT grown in the sense that a new mmorpg can come out and expect a lot more subs than in the past. You'll see.

[eldaec]

GW + RvR + Europe is a special case. I would expect signifcantly more subs than anything bar WoW in Europe.

I'd be slightly surprised if they don't manage 300k in Europe. 500k seems optimistic but not impossible.

[Numtini]

The Warhammer IP seems to be pretty strong. Far stronger than I would ever have expected. And it's the right kind of IP, one that was meant for gaming and can take a bit of adjustment without the world having a meltdown. (Star Wars and Tolkien are bad IPs for gaming because they have a set of fanatic fans worried about consistency, not to mention in each case control freaks controlling the rights.)

Anyone know how the Warcraft expansion release is doing? If they miss October, it opens up a lot of opportunities to poach.

[Threash]

It’s going to be 500,000+, easily.

WoW, has “style”, not polish.

DAoC was/is technically flawless.

I'm amazed.

Btw, it's interesting how WoW tricked EVERYONE into believing that subscribers grow on trees.

The market has NOT grown in the sense that a new mmorpg can come out and expect a lot more subs than in the past. You'll see.

By the time this game comes out wow should be around the 10 mill mark, i think "wow but with good pvp" would easily be able to mooch off about half a million of those, plus whatever new subs they pick up from warhammer players and poach of other games i wouldnt be surprised if they reached the 1 million mark.  This is all assuming the game is actually you know... good.

[Zane0]

If they're toying around with a console release.. As I understand it, if a game goes down that path there are usually complications with client updates due to console hard drive limitations and such.  I remember hearing that EQOA had issues with this; no idea about FFXI.

Any informed comments on that issue?

[stray]

Any informed comments on that issue?

Consoles didn't really adjust to the online "revolution" until recently. Kinda like how the 32X, Jaguar, or Sega CD didn't make much of a mark for 32 bit or disc based media.

Xbox Live and a little of what Sony was doing was a good step, but all in all, they weren't really concentrating on online capabilities (robust and otherwise). Nowadays though, all companies, including Nintendo, seem to finally be getting their heads out of their asses.

[Margalis]

What's weird about Nintendo is they have been doing the Nintendo over satellite stuff for a LONG LONG time. Like SNES days.

[stray]

For co-op. They seemed to think that's all anyone wanted or something.

Now where's that quote from Miyamoto about the GC? It was just as backwards thinking as Bill Gates' infamous "640k" bit.

[HRose]

By the time this game comes out wow should be around the 10 mill mark,

The behaviour of WoW is not simple to predict. But I don't think it will continue to grow at this rate. It's easily possible that the expansion will push up the subscription numbers since a lot of players could resubscribe at once. But I think boredom will kick in MUCH sooner this time. People will figure out the expansion is just a forced stretch and that there isn't anything really new that FEELS new.

[Arthur_Parker]

It all depends on the quality of the expansion, a sharp fall in subscriber numbers for WoW was already predicted in April last year.  I'm expecting it to kick in any second now. 

[HRose]

It all depends on the quality of the expansion, a sharp fall in subscriber numbers for WoW was already predicted in April last year.  I'm expecting it to kick in any second now. 

It has ALREADY happened. Problem is that WoW CONTINUES TO SELL LIKE CRAZY.

People always forget that retention isn't the way to go. It's accessibility the way to go. New players represent the health of a game. THEN retention.

[Azazel]

Sorry to "Sirbruce" this, but it's translation, not nitpicking an argument.

Three reasons why Warhammer is a great licence for a MMO:
3- A-pe-pe-cciual work with no ending from where to draw from

Perpetual.

The way you write, I don't think you've got much business pissing on people's accents.

Race cliches:
"The high-elves are British posh people. Never done a day working in their lives. Don't understand about "doing the washing". Have had too much time in the da, so they read the lody-dody(?) books, get really good with the swords and doing special magic."

"la-dee-dar-dee." it's like hoighty-toighty. fanciful. twee.

"The dark-elves are English posh people who have taken drugs. Basically Lord Byron. They've got money coming out their ears. They don't take lot of hope into deciding [...] goddamn world [...] any way they want."

They've taken a load of opium and they've decided that they can run the world and have it any way they want.

"The Chaos is humans that have been toughly(?) corrupted, tentacles, crab close, extra eyes, horns. Some people get confuse and think Chaos is like the devil. No, no, no. It's not fire and brimstone, it's chaos. It's castles falling from the sky. It's an arm that turns into a sword. It's the ability to cut open your arm and mice(?) pour out rather then blood. It's chaos, it's corruption."

humans that have been totally corrupted, tentacles, crab claws... it's custard falling from the sky...

- More commitment you put in, you got piles of money, you got a great(?) of played, the more the game rewards you.

You got to pay us some money, you got to agree to play it

[Azazel]

And even the style of WoW is iffy. Games Workshop is notorious for using their IP to shut down competitors, even tiny mom and pop operations. It would not surprise me in the least if they served Blizzard with C&D papers on the Orc, goblin, and possibly Dwarves right around launch. And the best part is there is no credible argument that Blizzard could use to say that they didn’t lift the Orc and Goblin visuals straight from GW. They’ve even said they did.  Blizzard shouldn’t be worried about War as a competitor, they should be worried about Games Workshop as a copyright holder with a demonstrated history of using their IP to club the fuck out of people until they cease to exist.

GW's history of corporate IP bullying is against the small guys. Vivendi's very much not the small guys. Warcraft 1 came out more then 6 months ago, and your idea that GW can do jack or shit about WoW's dwarves is even more laughable.

[Ironwood]

Btw, "France" is not the problem. WoW's servers are also hosted in France and I don't think they have all these problems.

Um, yes.  Yes, they did...

[angry.bob]

GW's history of corporate IP bullying is against the small guys. Vivendi's very much not the small guys. Warcraft 1 came out more then 6 months ago, and your idea that GW can do jack or shit about WoW's dwarves is even more laughable.

Vivendi's size is irrelevant. They might have more money to fight instead of cave in, but in the end it wouldn't affect the outcome. GW uses it's IP as a tool to stop competition and insure their dominance. If they're willing to lose money suing a guy in an iffy lawsuit to make him stop selling home sculpted miniature, what's so crazy about them suing a bigger company when they have a rock solid case, it would get them barrels of money, and help them gain marketshare? GW's history of IP bullying is against competion, which up until did not include Vivendi. Now it does, and large chunks of it's core visuals were blatantly lifted from GW. There would be no need for GW to "bully" Vivendi since GW would actually be right and have a solid case. And just because they haven't sought remedy over the issue yet doesn't mean they've lost or relinquished the right to. They can wait as long as they want before doing whatever they want to do. But let's say for the sake of argument that the dwarves are a non-issue. That still leaves the Orcs and Goblins, which no impartial person would believe were not lifted straight from GW - even if they hadn't already said they had.

[eldaec]

I doubt GW have any sort of realistic case.

You can't allow someone to leech off of your IP for 10 years and then turn around and say 'stop' just because you wish to enter that market.

These things have to be done as soon as the offended party is aware and can reasonably react.

The only way GW would get anywhere is if their lawyers were much bigger and badder than Vivendi's. Which they aren't. This ship already sailed. Circa 1996.


Plus, at the end of the day, it's Orcs and Elfs. To a disinterested party all Orcs and Elfs look the same. If this was a WH40k vs Starcraft bunfight, then maybe. If it was still 1998 today.

[Lantyssa]

Or Blizzard could just outright buy GW with a few of their moneyhats and do whatever they want with the IP...

[stray]

If they wanted to do that, they never would have made Warcraft games.

[Soln]

I played DAoC until it was clear they weren't moving in my direction.  They seem to be moving in my direction again, so I am interested again.

aye, agreed.  This CouldBeCool^TM

Edit: I'm going Chaos, "Flying Goblin Guild"

[Sairon]

http://v2.curse-gaming.com/en/article-186-1-paul-barnett-interview-eswc-speech.html

An interview over at curse gaming, they probably should get someone to proof read that before they posted it though. Not much new information, but it's Paul Barnett.

[schild]

That's one of the worst interviews I've ever read. Proofreading necessary indeed. How did that place come to be ranked 2,389 on Alexa and I've somehow magically never heard about it? I'm not saying I've heard of every website. But top 5,000 in alexa targeting MMOGs? Should I be embarrased?

Edit:
What the fuck? Threads: 9,137, Posts: 32,473, Members: 112,502.

112k members with only 32,473 posts? I, alone, have more than 1/3rd their postcount and they have nearly 100x more members? whu?

[damijin]

fake accounts make your forum look legit IMO.

you should get an extra 50,000 for this heap.

[Chenghiz]

Curse-gaming hosts one of the biggest add-on databases for WoW. It's likely those users registered to post on the addon pages and those posts aren't counted by the forum.

[MrHat]

Curse-gaming hosts one of the biggest add-on databases for WoW. It's likely those users registered to post on the addon pages and those posts aren't counted by the forum.

Yup.

[Righ]

How did that place come to be ranked 2,389 on Alexa and I've somehow magically never heard about it? I'm not saying I've heard of every website. But top 5,000 in alexa targeting MMOGs? Should I be embarrased?

Only if you use WoW. It's practically the most famous index of WoW addons ever. Besides that, however, its nothing. And as Chenghiz mentions, people register to whine about some flashy addon not working on patch day.

[Der Helm]

That's one of the worst interviews I've ever read. Proofreading necessary indeed.

I agree.

The interviewed person comes accross as a 12 year old.

[Mi_Tes]

That's one of the worst interviews I've ever read. Proofreading necessary indeed. How did that place come to be ranked 2,389 on Alexa and I've somehow magically never heard about it? I'm not saying I've heard of every website. But top 5,000 in alexa targeting MMOGs? Should I be embarrased?

Edit:
What the fuck? Threads: 9,137, Posts: 32,473, Members: 112,502.

112k members with only 32,473 posts? I, alone, have more than 1/3rd their postcount and they have nearly 100x more members? whu?

It was difficult getting past the first paragraph of the interview and then the rest of it was just as worthless to read. 

Did you take a look at their forums?  I opened the Vanguard forum and found the "favorite class poll" and the Warhammer form has "find your hottest warhammer character".  Impossible to believe, but they make Vault look hard core. 

[Arthur_Parker]

IGN has some new screenshots showing greater detail here.

A new video interview, scroll down to GT Interview here, not been able to watch it with sound as yet but the monitor in the background has the game running.

[MrHat]

He says that they have a healer role, a tank role and a dps role.

Edit: LoL @ myself.

[Lantyssa]

He says that they have a healer roll, a tank roll and a dps roll.

Do those come with butter? :-D

This message brought to you by the Friends of Grammar Snake.

[Kail]

He says that they have a healer role, a tank role and a dps role.

Seriously?  Like, specific classes doing each of those?  In a PvP centric game?  Yeargh.