f13.net forums - Tackling

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
July 24, 2025, 07:13:01 AM

we're back, baby

maybe do another energy drain instead of rocket launcher?

A rocket or two isn't going to make much of a difference against anything bigger than a frigate. Maybe do a smart bomb? That'd help on the target and if they launched any drones.

You might also see if that setup will hold two scramblers instead of a scrambler and a webber. With targets like we had last night (Raven) we don't need to web them - they are slow enough. But we need to make damn sure we have enough scramblers on them.

I like the smart bomb idea. Another option might be a remote armor repairer or the like- help keep the primary target alive while you tackle. Those have very limited ranges though, so that might not work.

Quote from: WayAbvPar on June 06, 2006, 09:38:21 AM

I like that smart bomb idea too... What can you tell me about those? Are they passive or active? What skills do you need? I am stuck at work so I can't look it up...

Quote from: edlavallee on June 06, 2006, 06:35:03 AM

Sooo... the EVE site is down and I am busy procrastinating at work. Was revisiting this tackling thread and wondering how this fitting might work with a Rifter:

HIGH-SLOTS :
- [ 8 | 15] Small 'Knave' I Energy Drain
- [ 8 | 15] Small 'Knave' I Energy Drain
- [ 4 | 10] 'Malkuth' Rocket Launcher I
- [ 4 | 10] 'Malkuth' Rocket Launcher I

MED-SLOTS :
- [ 15 | 25] 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
- [ 1 | 25] J5b Phased Prototype Warp Inhibitor I
- [ 1 | 21] X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator

LOW-SLOTS :
- [ 0 | 0] Nanofiber Internal Structure I
- [ 0 | 0] Nanofiber Internal Structure I
- [ 5 | 4] Small I-a Polarized Armor Regenerator

This fitting might be a little tight, but opinions? Rockets vs missles? (since I am a missle guy, guns are not the best for me).

Can you really fit all of that on a rifter without a mapc? Impressive o_o

Anyway, drop all the named stuff. I guess you've heard the manta "Don't fly, what you can't afford to lose". When tackling this evolves into "You're dead. Fly cheap shit". The only thing I'd really recommend getting a named/tech 2 version of would be the MWD. The other stuff really depends on the current gang you're with - would they need any sort of damage from you (go 1 nos 3 guns, 2 nos 2 guns, or 4 nos), how many points are there in the gang and what are you hunting (should you go 2/1, 2/2, 1/web, 2/web), is there a "tanked" tackler (something that would survive tackling a missile boat. They fucking hurt :P).

Just want to stress - when you're flying a tackler, you're already dead. So better cut your loses and don't fly too expensive fittings if you can't afford losing them.

Quote from: Wolf on June 06, 2006, 09:55:20 AM

Can you really fit all of that on a rifter without a mapc? Impressive o_o

Yes you can, and Rifters are fast little shits, which is why I love minne frigs so much. (And may trade-in my Wolf for a Jag now that it's got even more med slots... love those e-toys.)

What's been said about non-named modules, and another scram instead of the web are about all I was going to add. Except: if you're fitting webbers, use the Langour ones.. they drop plenty regularly off of the Angels, so even though it's a named module, you're not going to be SOL when you get asploded.

Quote from: edlavallee on June 06, 2006, 09:46:49 AM

I like that smart bomb idea too... What can you tell me about those? Are they passive or active? What skills do you need? I am stuck at work so I can't look it up...

You have to active them and they do take a bit of cap - but if you have 1 or 2 nos' on, it should take care of that. Not sure what skills you need, I'd have to check in-game.

Here you go:

1: Science I (41 minutes, 40 seconds)
2: Science II (3 hours, 14 minutes, 10 seconds)
3: Engineering I (41 minutes, 40 seconds)
4: Engineering II (3 hours, 14 minutes, 10 seconds)
5: Energy Pulse Weapons I (1 hour, 23 minutes, 20 seconds)

5 skills

Quote from: dwindlehop on June 06, 2006, 11:41:04 AM

So, I can have Dwindlehop study and take my tests for me? Cool!!

Seriously, thanks. I will check that out when I get a chance to hop out this 34th floor window.

I'm a bit lost here. Why would you want to fit a Smart Bomb on a tackler?

Quote from: Wolf on June 06, 2006, 12:01:31 PM

I'm a bit lost here. Why would you want to fit a Smart Bomb on a tackler?

For fun? I donno, because you have high slots that you need to put something in? tongue

Are there any compelling reasons not to?

Why fit any kind of weapon on a tackler when you could fit another nos or something useful to its role? A properly fitted tackler won't, and shouldn't, be doing damage.

What about if I wanna bullseye womp rats like in my T-16 back home? They're not much bigger than two meters.

Good for flushing out drones.

I'd seriously reconsider being a tackler if I were you. Do it EARLY!

Fucking hell lost two taranises tonight. One was a one shot kill. Here I am, fleet pimped. Sitting at 300 Shields, 1000 Armor and 700 Hull, tackling a tempest in the middle of the enemy fleet, mwd turned off, got 4 points on him, orbiting. Life is good. Hard part is over. I lived. And a fucking raven had to spoil it with the fucking imba javelin torpedos. One volley. One second I'm sitting at full health, the next I'm in a pod going "WTF WAS THAT SHIT?".

Man this game is bad for me. I should go play WoW on a PVE server or something.

Pretty fucking stupid that Torps can hit a frigate for mroe than, I dunno, 50.

Yeah, that's stupid. His torps did an avarage of 340 dmg each. Not considering any resists on my part (like 60 Expl for the shields).

I'd like to think that I learn something new with every tackler I lose. The thing is this time the ship was perfectly fit for this situation and the execution was as close to perfect as one can manage. What did I learn? That there's fuck all I can do against this particular raven (and I don't even want to THINK about the time I'm gonna go up against a Precision Cruise'd command ship). You just die. I've never been so close to posting a whine thread on an official msg board.

Well off to bed with me I have to re-think this whole tackling thing.

Quote from: Wolf on June 06, 2006, 02:19:34 PM

Yipes, and that was your pep talk?!!

Give me a break, if you are tackling you expect to die - period. Remember, the goal of tackling is to live long enough so *someone else* can take out your target ship. If your goal was to live through the engagement then you should probably be flying a BC or bigger.

This is why you fly with cheap frigates with cheap modules.

Let me quote myself from above:

Quote

"You're dead. Fly cheap shit"

I don't whine that I died. I whine that I didn't live for... I don't know... more than 1 second? When I'm fit specifically to counter what killed me? If I lived through that one volley, the tempest would've been dead and I would've warped away to live and tackle another day. That's all I'm asking for - to not be one shot killed.

So Precision Cruise and Heavy were nerfed, but Precision Torp is still pwnage?

I'm tackling currently in a merlin, what it lacks in speed it makes up in actually having slots and powergrid to fit enough to double as a pve rat ship. but yeh it seems like if you are worrying too much about speccing for tackling you aren't getting it. Fit a scrambler and/or web, plenty of speed boosts and an AB/MWD. thats about it, or gonna get mooked, so instead of buying pro modules, buy spare ships and make sure you have the insta's to get back to the fleet quickly for the next engagement.

One thing I'm still not gettting: Why do you have to turn off your mwd right away when you come into the battle area? Is it because you have a bigger signature that way? Or is it your ability to turn that's compromised? The transilvanian vector? what?

It's the Sig modifier. I sparred with someone before, and they came up to me with their MWD on for a split-second.

My heavy volley did full damage, on a frigate.

Two kinds of tacklers really, the lighter 1st wave tackler, and the heavier 2nd wave tackler.

The 1st wave tackler typically consists of frigates that fly REALLY fast with MWD. 'ceptors, rifters, merlin etc. These ones blow up just as fast as they move so takes a lot of practice to fly one for any amount of time without blowing into little pieces. The whole aim for these 1st wave tacklers is to hold down your target long enough for the 2nd wave tackler to come and take over. Since the tackling interceptors and rifters dont usually have a tank (some do) speed keeps you alive, but because you need speed I would personally suggest using a 20km scram, scramming from 19km (so you got 1km to move out of if you get heavy nossed and scrammed by a BS) since at 7.5km you risk of being given the typical love interceptors get : drones, web, scram and nos. Lost too many crows to that. Some T1 frigs dont have the cap to sustain a 20km, but those are cheap and affordable so 7.5km works. Doubtful that a BS would be able to pod you so the only cost would be under 500k in a cheap rifter.

2nd wave tacklers are usually the heavier stuff that can take the beating a 1st wave cant. Vengeance AF, Stabber, Rupture, Vagabond, etc. A BS *can* be a 2nd wave tackler, but thats hoping the interceptor is still alive long enough for the BS to lock. In some engagements (if target has drones and large nos), the inty wouldve already ran off by the time the BS gets a lock. The Vengeance AF is an underated AF, because it 'hits like a wet noodle and sucks', except you can put a pretty strong tank and tackle decently, AB, web, scram, but people that complain the Vengeance is totally crap are typically the kind of people that put heatsink II's on their Crusader and complain about cap problems. Stabber's a good one, since its fairly cheap, easier to fly and still fast. Minmatar tend to get fast(er) locking speed so rupture and/or stabber with MWD do the job well too. By the time the 2nd wave tackler gets the lock and adds points, the inty (if he has drones on him) would either warp off or get out of enemy lock range to take the heat off him before returning and adding more points. By then, the main gank force should've arrived and the target is wtfBBQ'ed.

In theory anyways. In practice the 1st wave guys either get popped fairly quickly if they arent careful, or the target has stabs and runs off. 7.5km scram might solve that, but I tend to prefer the 20km disruptor.

MWD adds a larger sig radii. T1 adds 500% to your sig radii, T2 adds 550%, and gistii adds 661%.

A Crow (25m) with a T2 (+550%) moving at 0 m/s is essentially an immobile Thorax, so if you shoot it with anything big, it gets insta-popped. The only thing that saves a frigate in that case, would be its speed, so the inty with MWD, would be something like a Thorax moving at 4,000 m/s (or faster). If you are under the enemy guns, then you are unhittable.... if the has web... well, you blow up :S

Against missiles, so long as your velocity is higher than the missile's explosion velocity, you wont be getting hit by any amount of significant damage.

While MWD is useful, its a double-edged sword, and to really benefit from it, you really have to use manual flight. Auto-orbit is useful, but it can get you killed when you're on your attack run to tackle. Say the target is 30-40km away, you'd hit your MWD to fly at 4,000m/s to get there quick, and you click "orbit at 15km", problem with that is that because of your high-speed, you're going to overshoot by at least 3-5km and your interceptor will auto-correct... but that means doing a full 180 degrees turn to back into the orbit. Doing a full 180 degrees in an interceptor makes you like an immobile thorax : get hit by heavy missiles, and you get insta-popped, its also one of those "dont do" things in an inty when you got something big shooting at you - you really dont want to take full damage if you can help it. Turning MWD off just before you enter orbit should help, but you need to time it right or you're going to overshoot and not be able to get within scrambling range (this is especially important if you're trying to orbit at 19km, you'll overshoot over to 21-24km). Manual flight should stop you from over shooting till you turn off your MWD then go on auto-orbit without problems, but it takes practce.

Sorry for long winded post :S

Quote from: Leon on June 16, 2006, 03:23:00 AM

Sorry for long winded post :S

Not at all, that was very informative. Thanks!

Adds points of warp scrambling. A 20km scrammer will give 1 point of scram, which can be defeated with 1 WCS. a 7.5km can give 2 points, which necessitates 2 WCS. Adding more than that makes it more and more likely that the target won't be able to counter and will stay scrammed.

Leon- nice to see you back. How's things in Kor-Azor? :-D

And do you want to join a 0.0 corp that needs training in PvP? :-D

ehehe, I'd be more than happy to help out with 'ceptors (I still dont fly anything else), but I'll have to pass on that offer for 0.0 PvPing. Been in 0.0 for a bit since BL-IN used to be set +ve to BoB until they reset all standings, but I never liked 0.0 warfare really.... just isnt fun like hi-sec piracy. And logistics in 0.0 is le sux.

What are you training now then Leon?

I'd imagine that most if not all of your Inty skills are trained

Actually how does one get pvp experience for intys without using one?

I'll be going for a crow soonish but I don't want to jump in without almost no combat experience beside warping out docking and safespotting.

Is there any point mucking around with a condor in cheap T1 setups to get a feel for combat with a Crow?

Should I wait for T2 missiles and rockets before I use my Crow?

How do I get pvp experience? Low-sec? 0.0? leave F13 for a pvp corp for a while?

Thanks for the links to your guides btw Leon :-D

Quote from: Wolf on June 06, 2006, 02:52:54 PM

As an inty, to mitigate missile damage all you need to do is go really fucking fast. I was shooting an inty today with much faster cruise missiles for 0.0 damage a volley 'cos the bugger was going so fast. Your sig radius here isn't as important as going super fast - I think if you kept the MWD on you'd have lived (assuming you had the cap to run it w/ the tackling mods).

I particpaited in my first -V- fleet op today. I was the stabber who the fleet commander ordered to check the gates first (gee thanks).

Anyways, we were trying to camp the Nrael gate as you do, and then later one of the stations in empire 1 jump in, and I had a problem. By the time the red showed up, he'd left before I could target him to web and scrabel him.

How can I improve my targeting time on a stabber that only has 3 mid slots?

Quote from: Llyse on June 16, 2006, 09:20:14 PM

What are you training now then Leon?

I'd imagine that most if not all of your Inty skills are trained

Currently training Small projectile 4. I finally got Interceptors V about a few weeks back so I've been training for a Vagabond... I hear its an interceptor on crack :D Other then that, I have rocket spec 4, std missile 3 (need that to 4), bombardment 4, projection 4, rapid launch 4, navigation 5, accel control 4 etc. There are still some skills to get to make them even better, but at the moment, I decided to train a little in minmatar ships - always wanted to fly a Cyclone. So once im done with a few more skills, going to go back to working on those 8-21day missile skills to V.

Quote

Actually how does one get pvp experience for intys without using one?

I'll be going for a crow soonish but I don't want to jump in without almost no combat experience beside warping out docking and safespotting.[

Is there any point mucking around with a condor in cheap T1 setups to get a feel for combat with a Crow?

Hmm, without using one, it'd be near impossible. I started playing EVE seriously in early september and I was in an interceptor by October since I rushed to get it. I used to fly it solo for pirating and losing a LOT of crows in the process, then switched to Harpy for a while. I think it was only when BL-IN blew up several of my harpies during the ITEMP/BI war (where I was on the ITEMP side) that I switched to interceptors because they were more verstile. I guess it isnt answering your question too well, but I'm not sure you could really get PvP experience for inties without flying one.... although I think flying a rifter, condor or an executioner to tackle would make a good learning experience, but of course, nothing like the real thing.

Quote

Should I wait for T2 missiles and rockets before I use my Crow?

Short answer, would be 'no'. I've seen a lot of people that went "whine whine whine, I dont want to PvP because I dont have t2 guns on my crusader". Its an unfortunate thing that people are obsessed with t2 gear on their ships -just- so they can use it to PvP. T2 gear is awesome and excellent equipment, sure, but it should not be an inhibitor to PvP. If you want to PvP and use a crow at the same time, then it shouldnt really matter. OE-5200 rocket launchers and TE-2100 light missile launchers are fairly cheap and are a good value for the money. So in the end, if you're willing to invest money and are seriously wanting to learn on inty flying, then I'd say use named T1 gear and use that to practice. No point spending money like crazy just so you can lose it if you've never had previous training. Rather lose 15mil then 25mil eh?

Quote

How do I get pvp experience? Low-sec? 0.0? leave F13 for a pvp corp for a while?

Well, low pirating kinda works. But that really a "kinda sorta not really" affaire. I mean, it works if you are serious about low sec piracy and are willing to invest time to pirate in low sec. In my case, ironically, I stopped pirating then I joined BL-IN, but thats a whole different thing altogether. I used to be in ITEMP, an anti-pirate / mission running-manufacturing corp that war decced BL-IN when they came over to Khanid. After a full month and a bit of war, I got sick of my corp constantly docking or trying to use blob tactics then bitching that I was losing ships to BL-IN because I would undock and go fight solo, so I defected after the war ended so I could learn more PvP from being in BL-IN. That was only a week or so before the F13/BI war I believe.

In any case, low sec PvP works, but it tends to be "gank the NPCer". I'm primarily a dogfighter/recon pilot, and chances of me seeing another inty or frig to engage in low sec is closer to null. 0.0 is nice if you got access, but I like I said in the previous post, I never really enjoyed it. It was kinda fun while it lasted, but it lost flavor when I helped BoB bust an IMP camp in 1-SMEB and lost my Harpy to 3 HACs, 1 inty and 2 BSes when I went first to do some recon. Sure, I was in the wrong ship, but ever since it kinda lost its flavor because 0.0 just felt like gank, counter-gank, counter-counter blob-gank. I prefer small skirmish tactics so I prefer high sec warfare. You *could* leave F13 for a PvP corp for a while if you are really really serious about PvPing.... but thats a double edged sword. That kind of what I did, but I was on not too hot terms with ITEMP, mostly because it couldnt offer me the PvP I wanted and I was getting frustrated and felt like I was getting held back. I knew some of the guys from 2 years ago since WoW and other games, but out of the 4 officers (who all knew each other, including me) 3 left. I left for BL-IN, the other 2 left for an 0.0 corp Adeptus Gattacus in Kaos (till it collapsed, then they applied to BI). I personally think it was the best decision I made in EVE, I really love being in BI, but if you are on really good terms with your friends in the same corp, dunno. Thats not something I could really help you out with. But be warned though, although you might say "temporarily leave corp X for PvP corp Y", if you start having a lot of fun, then you wont turn back. So that's going to be a long term thing to consider, as while you will learn a lot within a few months, its really addictive at the same time.

Quote from: Comstar on June 17, 2006, 04:30:42 AM

Well, thats the thankless task of forward recon. I personally love that job because you realize, that the ENTIRE fleet will either function and go to battle, or go somewhere depending on whether you say "clear" or "contact, hostiles X, Y, Z". The entire fleet depends on you to act as its eyes and ears for it to function. Without a forward recon, the fleet will just be an unorganized shamble :)

Several ways to increase targetting speed. In-game, targetting speed = scan resolution. High the better, of course. Interceptors are naturally the highest. To increase it though, you can train the Signal Analysis skill. Each level will add 5% to your scan resolution for faster lock time. And of course, you could also use a sensor booster to increase scan resolution by 60% or so.

Problem with gate camping, is that most cruisers (especially frigates) are able to warp off before you lock them. My interceptor uses a 20km scram with a sensor boost (long range setup) so i can catch just about anything, but for a cruiser with sensor boost.... tricky tricky. You could catch cruisers, but definately not frigates.

Hope that answered some of your questions :)