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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  Gaming Conferences and Conventions  |  E3 '06  |  Topic: PS3 Price, Rev Assassinating Controller Info, also Atlus and Squeenix News. 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: PS3 Price, Rev Assassinating Controller Info, also Atlus and Squeenix News.  (Read 32294 times)
Sairon
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Reply #35 on: May 09, 2006, 07:19:45 AM

Quote
The Sony controller didn't change, it's still that bajilliony buttoned multi joystick contraption that is the barrier to entry for  people who don't play video games. Sure it may have motion sensing capabilities, but it's still an awkward little thing.

I guess you could go back to the old amiga joysticks with 2 red buttons doing the same thing and a stick, but we're beyond that, most buttons are needed in todays games. My 50 years old father has no problems with the playstation controller, was a matter of minutes before he felt comfortable using it playing Gran Turismo. I guess he would have problems playing for example Soul Calibur 3, but he will never play that game anyway so that's no problem. I guess it would be awkward for people a couple of years older than my father, but they will never play games anyway, they're to busy whining about the good old days.
sigil
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Reply #36 on: May 09, 2006, 07:32:46 AM

Quote
The Sony controller didn't change, it's still that bajilliony buttoned multi joystick contraption that is the barrier to entry for  people who don't play video games. Sure it may have motion sensing capabilities, but it's still an awkward little thing.

I guess you could go back to the old amiga joysticks with 2 red buttons doing the same thing and a stick, but we're beyond that, most buttons are needed in todays games. My 50 years old father has no problems with the playstation controller, was a matter of minutes before he felt comfortable using it playing Gran Turismo. I guess he would have problems playing for example Soul Calibur 3, but he will never play that game anyway so that's no problem. I guess it would be awkward for people a couple of years older than my father, but they will never play games anyway, they're to busy whining about the good old days.

Try handing that same controller to your mother, and see how she does it, or to a  person who doesn't play video games.

You only need more buttons if you think that buttons are the only way to do something.

By thinking outside of the boc, Nintendo is betting that they will appeal to those who don't already buy games in addition to those willing to try something new. The execution of this is going to be the big thing. It may crash and burn horribly, but I give them  high marks forat least trying.
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Reply #37 on: May 09, 2006, 09:14:14 AM

There's a learning curve. How do we know the Revolution will appeal to grandma and grandpa? I don't know about yours  or hers or his but my grandparents will not stand in front of their TV swinging their arms around because the mans arm on the TV moves when theirs does. They are not monkeys.
WindupAtheist
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Reply #38 on: May 09, 2006, 09:15:05 AM

Your non-gaming grandma isn't going to want to play the faggoty hypothetical swordfighting game Nintendo fanboys nervously speculate upon when pressed to come up with an actual concrete use for that stupid-ass controller.

EDIT:  Fucking Schild beat me by a minute.  Drat.   tongue

"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig."  --  Schild
"Yeah, it's pretty awesome."  --  Me
Fabricated
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Reply #39 on: May 09, 2006, 09:18:08 AM

I don't get why Sony suddenly added motion detection to their controllers, but I doubt it'll end up being used all that much.

Sort of like the way Third-Party games and ports will make little use of the Wii's controller.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
WindupAtheist
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Reply #40 on: May 09, 2006, 09:22:17 AM

Fanboy:  Oh my god, I love how Nintendo thinks outside the box!

Rational human:  Wait, what games are going to actually use this controller?  Because I can think of plenty that would be a bitch to play with that thing as an input device.

Fanboy:  Well you see, it looks like a TV remote control.  Nintendo will use this to sell games to all the people who hate video games and are afraid of a control pad, but who slavishly identify with their television remote.

Rational human:  WHAT GAMES?

Fanboy:  Er... ah.... f-fishing g-g-game...?

Rational human:  And?

Fanboy:  S-sword... fighting?

Rational human:  And?

Fanboy:  And... and.... uh.... WAAAAH!!!

EDIT:  Also, light-gun games.  Yeah, those are big.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2006, 09:23:59 AM by WindupAtheist »

"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig."  --  Schild
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schild
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Reply #41 on: May 09, 2006, 09:33:39 AM

I dunno. Every game seems like it's incorporating the nunchuck in some halfass way. Look at the DS Castlevania, they added completely nonimmersive elements so they could make it use that goddamn touchscreen. And then there's stuff like Trauma Center and Lost Magic that just rock on the DS. Basically, every game will use the nunchuck in some way or another, but Sony has done something brilliant here. Racing games will be more fun with a controller you use both hands on. You know, steering wheel and such. Ridge Racer 7? Yes. Gran Turismo? Yes. Mario Kart? No. It's a completely arcadey racer. It does not need this motion sensing hooey. Nintendo will probably force hokey controller implementation in all their first party games because they didn't have the foresight to have more than 3 usable buttons on the controller set. Can they really make everyone buy multiple shells and shit for the system?

I'm ust not seeing it. Meanwhile Sony only has to get people to use the controller that comes with the system for nearly all the functionality - including the only one that's really important, looking around/aiming in an FPS.
Margalis
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Reply #42 on: May 09, 2006, 09:57:56 AM

Quote
Sony has done something brilliant here

Wait, what did they do? Just re-release the PS2 controller essentially as-is?

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Murgos
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Reply #43 on: May 09, 2006, 10:01:03 AM

Quote
Sony has done something brilliant here

Wait, what did they do? Just re-release the PS2 controller essentially as-is?

No, he's talking about waiting until everyone shot their wad and then releasing an amalgam of their best stuff.

"You have all recieved youre last warning. I am in the process of currently tracking all of youre ips and pinging your home adressess. you should not have commencemed a war with me" - Aaron Rayburn
schild
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Reply #44 on: May 09, 2006, 10:04:04 AM

Subtle changes can make all the difference. The second analog triggers (L2 and R2) are now more like triggers. The D-Pad seems to be raised up a little bit more as do the face buttons (X, Y, O, SQUARE ^_^), and they added the motion sensing stuff.

It could be easily argued that the main Revolution stick thing is just an original Nes controller thinned out a bit, held vertically and had the b button moved to the bottom side fo you could play Nes games with one hand. But you know damn well it's not the same controller.

And the PS3 controller isn't the same controller. Just like the 360 controller is light years beyond the Xbox controller (and it is, trust me). On that note, I'll actually give a real opinion once I use it tomorrow. Maybe tonight if I'm sneaky sneaky enough at the convention (which....isn't likely. Drunk 6' tall football sized guys and sneaky don't often go together).
schild
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Reply #45 on: May 09, 2006, 10:08:11 AM



See, it's the subtle differences that matter. Familiarity is still uber important though. It's ok to be radical (SNES -> N64) when it's called for, but Gamecube -> Revolution? I don't thiiiiiiiiink so.
Polysorbate80
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Reply #46 on: May 09, 2006, 10:11:51 AM


Paying five bills for a high def dvd player may make it worthwhile, but again, thirty dollar movies just don't sound like something I want to buy, no matter how many pimples you can see on Clint Eastwoods nose when he's training the next karate kid girl to be the best female boxer in the world. I admit I may be alone on that, or just a cheap bastard.


$25+ was standard for DVDs when they first came out.  I seem to remember buying a few for $29.99 as well.

And neither is as bad as Beta/VHS movies back in the day.

(Edit:  oh, and regarding the pimples...after purchasing my first DVD player I distinctly remember thinking "wow, lookit them wrinkles...some of these porn actresses just ain't gonna survive the switch to DVD") :)
« Last Edit: May 09, 2006, 10:14:39 AM by Polysorbate80 »
sigil
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Reply #47 on: May 09, 2006, 10:15:28 AM

I dunno. Every game seems like it's incorporating the nunchuck in some halfass way. Look at the DS Castlevania, they added completely nonimmersive elements so they could make it use that goddamn touchscreen. And then there's stuff like Trauma Center and Lost Magic that just rock on the DS. Basically, every game will use the nunchuck in some way or another, but Sony has done something brilliant here. Racing games will be more fun with a controller you use both hands on. You know, steering wheel and such. Ridge Racer 7? Yes. Gran Turismo? Yes. Mario Kart? No. It's a completely arcadey racer. It does not need this motion sensing hooey. Nintendo will probably force hokey controller implementation in all their first party games because they didn't have the foresight to have more than 3 usable buttons on the controller set. Can they really make everyone buy multiple shells and shit for the system?

I'm ust not seeing it. Meanwhile Sony only has to get people to use the controller that comes with the system for nearly all the functionality - including the only one that's really important, looking around/aiming in an FPS.
Side note: That nunchuck is a crutch. they should have introduced it later

That's where the whole idea of execution  comes in. if developers do a shitty job of making lame half assed titles, then the whole things a big turd in a box and Nintendo loses this round.

Given my cynical nature, I tend to think that's what's probably going to happen.

The gaming industry now  has the opportunity to do something other than the same shit we keep seeing which isn't going to drag any new faces into  the store to pick.
You need something other than a sports game, a rts, a typical rpg or any of the other stagnant genres to drive innovation, expand the market and  make some serious money. What that is, I don't know. It's not my job to come up with it.


The industry says they want change? Nintendo gave them something to work with.

It's probably going to be totally wasted, but  at least they didn't add motion sensoring with usb connectivity to a wavebird and say "OOOH, it's new!"

That Controller looks like a fucking dreadnought out of a sci fi movie.  Familiarity means shit when you're looking to go to different  environments.  I'm not saying they will succeed, but to do what they were intending, it had to be out of line from what's going on.
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Reply #48 on: May 09, 2006, 10:28:05 AM



Heh.
Ironwood
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Reply #49 on: May 09, 2006, 10:32:13 AM

Harsh.

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Merusk
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Reply #50 on: May 09, 2006, 10:40:28 AM

Motion-sensing controllers are, well, stupid.

-I don't want a controller that my buddy can fuck me up with by smacking me to the side.
-I don't want a controller where my mom (who does play sometimes) will complain about her little man doing something funky because she's one of those people who actually lifts and pushes around her hands as if it would help.
-Like WUA, I don't see any good use of it, other than lightguns (which I miss.)

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Reply #51 on: May 09, 2006, 11:03:45 AM

That's what I thought at first also. Those "excited" gamers who jerk their controller up when they make risky jumps. Man they are fucked.

Man I do not like how the middle sentence there came out. Came indeed.
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Reply #52 on: May 09, 2006, 11:55:14 AM

I'm trying to remember what my brother paid for my PS2 way back when. Shit, my brother got me mine when I graduated from high school and I think it was $400 minimum.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
schild
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Reply #53 on: May 09, 2006, 11:56:17 AM

My PS2 cost $329.99 on launch day at Best Buy.
Margalis
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Reply #54 on: May 09, 2006, 01:04:06 PM

Motion sensing on a remote-style controller makes a lot more sense than on a joypad. Typically you point your remote at the screen, whereas people do whatever the hell they feel like with a pad. Probably a feature nobody will use.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Murgos
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Reply #55 on: May 09, 2006, 01:14:29 PM

My PS2 cost $329.99 on launch day at Best Buy.

And you've probably gotten every ounce of that $329.99 back out of it since then.  I've owned maybe 10 games for my PS2, early adopting makes no sense for me anymore.

"You have all recieved youre last warning. I am in the process of currently tracking all of youre ips and pinging your home adressess. you should not have commencemed a war with me" - Aaron Rayburn
Rodent
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Reply #56 on: May 09, 2006, 01:22:57 PM

After looking at the livefeed from Nintendo I am now even more convinced that I must own a Wii, drunken tennis will be great fun and potentially deadly.

Wiiiiii!
HRose
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Reply #57 on: May 09, 2006, 01:35:17 PM

Nintendo OWNED Sony this time.

The presentation was AWESOME.

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Reply #58 on: May 09, 2006, 02:05:13 PM

Nintendo OWNED Sony this time.

The presentation was AWESOME.

I agree.  I had an ear to ear smile for most of the presentation.  I can't wait to get my hands on one of these things.

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Reply #59 on: May 09, 2006, 03:49:14 PM

and I have never seen a game that needed a second DVD disc. 

Off the top of my head: Grandia III.

I am all for insane speculation, but I do want to point out that the Wii will have a doohickey to make the controller into a more traditional form.  Or so they say; I haven't seen it.  You aren't going to be able to play Super Metroid with the base controller, as far as I can tell, so I am inclined to believe that bit.  My friend is going to buy a Wii just for Super Metroid.  This could be mildy entertaining, or incredibly entertaining, depending on the outcome.

Of course, it will be up to the developers to actually use the nunchuck doohickey or the laser-pointer doohickey, but the only thing that I worry about is the third-party people.  Either N opens up to the outside devs more, which would be good, or they maintain their usual iron grip on the situation.  One path will produce a lot of shitty games, while the other will produce a few good games.  Either one could be really bad.

EDIT: I just started reading the Wii report on the frontpage.  Go me!
« Last Edit: May 09, 2006, 03:55:38 PM by Yegolev »

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Litigator
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Reply #60 on: May 09, 2006, 03:56:26 PM


Try handing that same controller to your mother, and see how she does it, or to a  person who doesn't play video games.

You only need more buttons if you think that buttons are the only way to do something.

By thinking outside of the boc, Nintendo is betting that they will appeal to those who don't already buy games in addition to those willing to try something new. The execution of this is going to be the big thing. It may crash and burn horribly, but I give them  high marks forat least trying.

http://www.gamespot.com/e3/e3story.html?sid=6149675&pid=928519&autoplay=6149700

It look like most games are going to be taking advantage of the analog stick attachment, which apparently also has a gysoscope built into it. The control is simpler looking, but in practice, it actually looks pretty complicated to use.
Litigator
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Reply #61 on: May 09, 2006, 04:03:55 PM

Fanboy:  Oh my god, I love how Nintendo thinks outside the box!

Rational human:  Wait, what games are going to actually use this controller?  Because I can think of plenty that would be a bitch to play with that thing as an input device.

Fanboy:  Well you see, it looks like a TV remote control.  Nintendo will use this to sell games to all the people who hate video games and are afraid of a control pad, but who slavishly identify with their television remote.

Rational human:  WHAT GAMES?

Fanboy:  Er... ah.... f-fishing g-g-game...?

Rational human:  And?

Fanboy:  S-sword... fighting?

Rational human:  And?

Fanboy:  And... and.... uh.... WAAAAH!!!

EDIT:  Also, light-gun games.  Yeah, those are big.

This thing isn't a light gun. It's more like a mouse that doesn't need to rest on a surface.
Litigator
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Reply #62 on: May 09, 2006, 04:05:20 PM


I'm ust not seeing it. Meanwhile Sony only has to get people to use the controller that comes with the system for nearly all the functionality - including the only one that's really important, looking around/aiming in an FPS.

Did you see the Zelda demonstration? This thing looks mouse-keyboard precise.
Miasma
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Reply #63 on: May 09, 2006, 04:28:40 PM


Try handing that same controller to your mother, and see how she does it, or to a  person who doesn't play video games.

You only need more buttons if you think that buttons are the only way to do something.

By thinking outside of the boc, Nintendo is betting that they will appeal to those who don't already buy games in addition to those willing to try something new. The execution of this is going to be the big thing. It may crash and burn horribly, but I give them  high marks forat least trying.

http://www.gamespot.com/e3/e3story.html?sid=6149675&pid=928519&autoplay=6149700

It look like most games are going to be taking advantage of the analog stick attachment, which apparently also has a gysoscope built into it. The control is simpler looking, but in practice, it actually looks pretty complicated to use.
Maybe I'm just afraid of change but that doesn't look like something that is so easy even my grandmother could use it.  Easy and intuitive interfaces don't require an image of the controller constantly displayed on screen to tell you what they do.  They also need to lose that huge fairy acting as a mouse pointer.

It's so different that the only way I will know if I like it or not is to play with it for a while but I'm predisposed to hating it.
MrHat
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Reply #64 on: May 09, 2006, 05:21:12 PM

I actually think those people that move the controller around might be at an advantage because of the natural motion.  The point is Sony did a smart thing and at least gave extra functionality to something old and proven.
Margalis
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Reply #65 on: May 09, 2006, 06:09:17 PM

The extra functionality is tacked on. You can bank on the fact that less than 10% of the games will make any real use of it. It just doesn't make sense. It's like having force-feedback on a d-pad.

Motion sensing only makes sense when there is a logical, consistent "normal" position for the controller to be in and when the motion sensing is a large part of the control scheme. You can't take an RPG and make it so that when you waggle the controller you attack and expect that to make any sense.

A remote is a pointer. Pointers are motion sensors. Moving a laser pointer around makes sense. Now imaging a laser pointing sticking out of your PS2 controller - makes zero sense. You hold the Wii controller in a way that makes sense for pointing at things.

I'm not saying the Wii controller is the greatest thing in the world. All I am saying is that the Wii controller is designed with motion sensitivity in mind rather than as an afterthought. Motion sensing on a PS2 controller isn't any more helpful than motion sensing on a keyboard or bagel.

Again, imagine using the PS2 as a laser pointer - retarded. The only real axis you can use is the waggle (roll) axis.

I think the PS2 controller is very good and the PS3 controller is fine, but the motion sensitivity is one of those things that will be quickly dropped by 3rd-party manufacturers when no games use it.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Lantyssa
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Reply #66 on: May 09, 2006, 08:42:13 PM

I am not sure why a two-handed device is considered harder to point.  Quick or exaggerated movements will be more difficult, however two hands will allow for much smoother movement and less shake after several hours of use.  Which is "better" will all depend upon the sensitivity of the devices and the application used by the developers.

What I can say (until I get a hands-on with the new units) is that I am comfortable with the PS controller design and using a TV remote to play a game doesn't interest me in the least.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Brolan
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Reply #67 on: May 09, 2006, 09:30:09 PM

$500 is huge price barrier to overcome.  After the demand of hardcore gamers is fulfilled I don't see a lot of casual sales happening.

I can just see little Johnny asking his Mom for a new PS3.  Then see her coughing and spitting up her morning coffee after she sees it costs $500!

I can see the 360 getting a lot of sales once parents see they can buy the stripped version for $299, when the cheapest PS3 is $499.
Sairon
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Reply #68 on: May 10, 2006, 01:50:32 AM

Haven't seen the sony press conference yet, but I did see the Nintendo one yesterday before I went to bed. Yes, Nintendos press conference was rather impressive. A few things though:

Either the dude who played that FPSy game sucked or it was the controller. If that'd be anything like a mouse you'd breeze through that game, even as a medicore player.

He mentioned that the difficulty has been reduced notably in the games to easier draw in new consumers, I hope there's difficulty options to choose from to allow for a more challenging experience for more experienced gamers.

Okay, so they're not aiming at hardware, but the graphics on most of the games were bad even by yesterdays standards. This could of course have to with the fact that I was looking at a low res gamespot stream, but it's usually easy to notice quality graphics anyway.

How long was that wire between the 2 controllers who were connected? It seemed like it wasn't long enough for the taller guy to really stretch his arm out while playing tennis, without having to move the analog stick controller around with his other hand.

As has been said before, this could either be the "next thing", or it will be a system with 10 good games and everything else feeling awkward to play on it.

I'll probably get a Nintendo system this generation since they're so cheap already from the get go.
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Reply #69 on: May 10, 2006, 08:55:05 PM

I can't wait to see what kind of bundles retailers are going to try to rape people with this time around.
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