IGE's latest acquisition: Allakhazam

[Wolf]

That article is a decent scratch at the surface, but whoever did the research should have kept digging. One day, ONE DAY, I'll write the article i've been meaning to write for over a year now.

How's next Thursday for "one day"? :)

I found the other article very interesting, I'd love to read whatever you have to add.

[HaemishM]

Allakhazam posted this on his forum:

The ownership issues here are convoluted.  This is how deals like this get done. The size of this is pretty amazing. This is just the announcement for our own users, not the actual corporate announcement, which will likely come much later. We are now owned by a company that owns a bunch of stuff, including IGE. They bought both of us (and several other sites as well) and then split us into separate divisions so that there is no interaction between them. You know my stand on gold selling. Before agreeing to anything like this, I wanted to make sure that there would be no interaction between those divisions and that I would have complete control over the new network, including the sites that used to be part of ogaming. So this means that the Ogaming sites and Thottbot have been split off of IGE and into our network and no longer have any connection with them.

So he says that there won't be any gold-selling going on in Allakhazam's, but who knows what will happen if goldseller advertisers start flinging money at the corporate overlords.

And yet, he's still getting the money from gold-selling farmers. That is some seriously skewed sense of ethics.

[HaemishM]

Just so you know, there isn't a web dev on earth that wouldn't sell their site for a cool few million (indie bloggy databasey web dev that is - not stuff like IGN) and just start doing something else.

I would never sell my site to an outfit like IGE. EVER.

[WindupAtheist]

My ass.  Do you have kids?  Do you plan to?  Do you want to someday tell them that they could have lived in the best neighborhood and had the best education money could buy, but you turned it all down because having to post movies of Stalin acting like a hillbilly on a different domain twenty years prior would have been selling out to The Man?

Turn down a few million dollars for a website, and you're setting yourself up to feel like a Grade A schmuck when somebody gets cancer a decade later, and the insurance company wants to be assholes, and the bills are piling up.

[HaemishM]

You can say all you want, but unless I am destitute, I'd rather do what I'm doing than know that I sold my ideas and my creations to some cocksucker who makes a mint raping the games I am passionate about. I'd sell to EA first.

I'm not saying I wouldn't sell my site to someone, but I damn sure won't sell it to someone I KNOW I have a significant objection to their business practices.

[penfold]

And yet, he's still getting the money from gold-selling farmers. That is some seriously skewed sense of ethics.

If i was them I'd have done the deal so i hand over the site and disappear. No question about whether or not I'd take the money, but there's no way I'd stick around justifying it, especially if I'd taken an anti farming stance beforehand.

[El Gallo]

I make a comfortable living, but I would seriously consider blowing Yantis on live TV for $10m.  Go Alla.

[HaemishM]

I make a comfortable living, but I would seriously consider blowing Yantis on live TV for $10m.  Go Alla.

$10 M won't cure herpes.

[schild]

I make a comfortable living, but I would seriously consider blowing Yantis on live TV for $10m.  Go Alla.

$10 M won't cure herpes.

So? Herpes doesn't kill you and there are topical creams.

[Soln]

ethics aside, it would put a skid on your reputation.

Question is, how many people who are influential for future $ for you would care. 

Personally, I haven't used Alla in ages and now won't.  Who cares.  But maybe there are people they need to work with who are not players that will care. 

[Sunbury]

IGE has also been buying up smalltime fan sites for future games, making large offers that people cannot refuse.

Humm, you don't have to sell your site, why don't youse guys (schild, Haemish...) with site know-how, and lotsa internet 'followers' do this:

Create some new sites following upcoming games.

Dump in lots of bland contents and forums.

Have all your friends post in 'shill' mode.

PROFIT!

[Tale]

The problem with this thread is that you're not blatant enough.  Thankfully, fuckedcompany.com still host that flash movie:

http://www.fuckedcompany.com/den/

Right-click and Save As on this link to take your own copy of the DEN movie, just in case ... Or left-click to watch it in glorious fullscreen :)

Edit: Also, someone on the Allakhazam site dug up a classic: Allakhazam says never ever, one year ago

[Broughden]

IGE has also been buying up smalltime fan sites for future games, making large offers that people cannot refuse.

Humm, you don't have to sell your site, why don't youse guys (schild, Haemish...) with site know-how, and lotsa internet 'followers' do this:

Create some new sites following upcoming games.

Dump in lots of bland contents and forums.

Have all your friends post in 'shill' mode.

PROFIT!

Thats a great idea! Can we be like "shareholders" if we all post on the site in order to drive up potential profit?
Hell what do you think the potential profit is on something like that? How much are these guys actually getting for selling their sites? Because I have 10k sitting in the bank I could invest if Schild wanted to run the site!

[Venkman]

Right-click and Save As on this link to take your own copy of the DEN movie, just in case ... Or left-click to watch it in glorious fullscreen :)

Or save as, open a new browser window, and drag into the window. Use ShiftWindow to nuke the window. Best of both worlds!

Err, because that matters...

[WindupAtheist]

I know that IGE sells gold and shit, and that Thott is the walkthrough-page for WoW.  I've never visited either, and all of the rest are completely unknown to me.

/shrug

Anyway Haem, when someone comes along and plunks down ten million dollars for GameAngst, and the real tangible allure of being filthy rich overwhelms you, I promise not to call you a hypocrite or whatever.  The ability to, say, fly one's hypothetical child across the world for a bone-marrow transplant fifteen years from now (or whatever) outweighs taking an ethical stance against people who run sweatshops to sell play-money in videogames.  At least in my book.

[Azazel]

So, wait.. all of the gold-selling websites are pretty much owned by IGE with the exception of a few that Yantis now runs? I'm not sure I understand the point behind the fake competition between them then?

[Zetor]

So, wait.. all of the gold-selling websites are pretty much owned by IGE with the exception of a few that Yantis now runs? I'm not sure I understand the point behind the fake competition between them then?

Ever play Deus Ex 2? zomg!

In all seriousness though, I was surprised this didn't happen earlier. I wonder how long it'll take for IGE to infiltrate this network, though. :P


-- Z.

[schild]

Who cares, nogold.org is webmasters, not devs.

[sarius]

My ass.  Do you have kids?  Do you plan to?  Do you want to someday tell them that they could have lived in the best neighborhood and had the best education money could buy, but you turned it all down because having to post movies of Stalin acting like a hillbilly on a different domain twenty years prior would have been selling out to The Man?

Turn down a few million dollars for a website, and you're setting yourself up to feel like a Grade A schmuck when somebody gets cancer a decade later, and the insurance company wants to be assholes, and the bills are piling up.

Many of us older Internet users could have run porn sites back when there were maybe 2 on the entire ARPAnet.  Believe it or not, money isn't everything to your children.

[El Gallo]

So, wait.. all of the gold-selling websites are pretty much owned by IGE with the exception of a few that Yantis now runs? I'm not sure I understand the point behind the fake competition between them then?

I think Yantis actually works for IGE now.  I think I remember a hubub about him getting bought out a few years ago.

[Merusk]

So, wait.. all of the gold-selling websites are pretty much owned by IGE with the exception of a few that Yantis now runs? I'm not sure I understand the point behind the fake competition between them then?

I think Yantis actually works for IGE now.  I think I remember a hubub about him getting bought out a few years ago.

That link that was posted earlier at azzaz or whatever says Yantis was bought-out of that deal for 32 mil., and then freed from his non-compete when IGE couldn't continue to pay that buy-out.  He now runs some other gold & auction site.

[Venkman]

Some of you folks act as if RMTing is evil or something. Come on. Does anyone really think anything in the entertainment business is some altruistic pursuit inspired by raw divinity?

Now, I can certainly see people turning down real money for truly bad things (drug trafficking, assassination, you know, the bad stuff). But "selling out" a website to a bunch of money folks who care not for the quality of any individual element when they're basking in the richness of the cumulative total? Come on. Some people just need to get their backs up about stupid shit don't they.

[Threash]

Some of you folks act as if RMTing is evil or something. Come on. Does anyone really think anything in the entertainment business is some altruistic pursuit inspired by raw divinity?

Now, I can certainly see people turning down real money for truly bad things (drug trafficking, assassination, you know, the bad stuff). But "selling out" a website to a bunch of money folks who care not for the quality of any individual element when they're basking in the richness of the cumulative total? Come on. Some people just need to get their backs up about stupid shit don't they.

Amen, some people act like selling their website to IGE means its going to be filled with child porn all of the sudden.  They sell gold for online games, big freaking deal.  I don't sell gold, i don't buy gold, i also don't give much of a shit if other people do and i wish to god i would have had the same idea this guy had back in the UO days.

[Threash]

My ass.  Do you have kids?  Do you plan to?  Do you want to someday tell them that they could have lived in the best neighborhood and had the best education money could buy, but you turned it all down because having to post movies of Stalin acting like a hillbilly on a different domain twenty years prior would have been selling out to The Man?

Turn down a few million dollars for a website, and you're setting yourself up to feel like a Grade A schmuck when somebody gets cancer a decade later, and the insurance company wants to be assholes, and the bills are piling up.

Many of us older Internet users could have run porn sites back when there were maybe 2 on the entire ARPAnet.  Believe it or not, money isn't everything to your children.

And theres nothing wrong with porn sites either :P.

[sarius]

Some of you folks act as if RMTing is evil or something. Come on. Does anyone really think anything in the entertainment business is some altruistic pursuit inspired by raw divinity?

Now, I can certainly see people turning down real money for truly bad things (drug trafficking, assassination, you know, the bad stuff). But "selling out" a website to a bunch of money folks who care not for the quality of any individual element when they're basking in the richness of the cumulative total? Come on. Some people just need to get their backs up about stupid shit don't they.

Amen, some people act like selling their website to IGE means its going to be filled with child porn all of the sudden.  They sell gold for online games, big freaking deal.  I don't sell gold, i don't buy gold, i also don't give much of a shit if other people do and i wish to god i would have had the same idea this guy had back in the UO days.

Mate, nothing is stopping you now.  Go mine, or get a coalition to mine to your heart's content.  Sell it to millions. 

However, just because you don't have a problem with dealing with pedophiles doesn't mean I have to accept it or IGE's business, which might in any way support that activity.  Although I've never bought gold, I've sure as hell advocated people not buy it from IGE because I believe this.

[CmdrSlack]

dealing with pedophiles

Libel city, next stop.

Seriously.  Yes, there's the DEN stuff and the one guy who was brought up on the pedo charges.  Calling IGE "pedophiles," while grammatically incorrect (corporations are singular, not plural), is treading on defamatory ground, especially when there's guys there who were never ever involved in DEN.  Now, that said, feel free to hate them.  I just think some of the "community" sites need to watch what they say to make a point.  It's all fun and games until someone gets a C&D letter.

EDIT -- As far as the whole thread goes, I agree with Darniaq.  Feel free to hate them if you like, but they're more than likely here to stay.  All the railing against them you can do is pretty pointless.  Until games don't require soul-crushing grinds, power disparities based on time played and other level and loot-based bullshit, we'll see a perceived need for RMT.  Someone will fill that market.  Taking the moral high-ground only works if everyone agrees on the rules of morality.  Clearly, not everyone does.

 

[Merusk]

EDIT -- As far as the whole thread goes, I agree with Darniaq.  Feel free to hate them if you like, but they're more than likely here to stay.  All the railing against them you can do is pretty pointless.  Until games don't require soul-crushing grinds, power disparities based on time played and other level and loot-based bullshit, we'll see a perceived need for RMT. 

See, this is a fallicy.  It's not soul-crushing grinds or any kind of grind that will stimulate RMT.  It's /any/ kind of in-game economy.  Of all the people I'd expect to be against RMT the most it's the virtual-world trippers.  However they seem to be the segment of the community most OK with it, while the folks on the 'just a game' side of things are the ones who get most pissed.  It's a dichotomy I've never really fully understood.

[CmdrSlack]

EDIT -- As far as the whole thread goes, I agree with Darniaq.  Feel free to hate them if you like, but they're more than likely here to stay.  All the railing against them you can do is pretty pointless.  Until games don't require soul-crushing grinds, power disparities based on time played and other level and loot-based bullshit, we'll see a perceived need for RMT. 

See, this is a fallicy.  It's not soul-crushing grinds or any kind of grind that will stimulate RMT.  It's /any/ kind of in-game economy.  Of all the people I'd expect to be against RMT the most it's the virtual-world trippers.  However they seem to be the segment of the community most OK with it, while the folks on the 'just a game' side of things are the ones who get most pissed.  It's a dichotomy I've never really fully understood.

I think it has to do with the fact that the virtual world folks want to view these spaces as having some kind of "thereness."  Dan Hunter has a great law review article on the Tragedy of the Digital Anti-commons where he examines the effect that using physical location language to describe the Internet has on the Internet itself.  It's a ton of postmodern criticism and legal theory wanking, but enjoyable if you're that kind of dork (I am).  His theory is that using those kind of metaphors is bad.  VW mavens want to believe that we can qualify this stuff as being real -- after all, we TALK about it as if it was real and are all emotional about our toons and stuff....it MUST be real! 

The "it's just a game" crowd likely just doesn't want to fuck with all the mess and thinks that it adds extra drama to their recreation.  I guess the sentiment would be something similar to, "I don't come to your job and slap the dick out of your mouth..."  When I go to Cubs games, I don't want Sox fans there rooting against the Cubs (unless we're playing the Sox).  I don't go to Sox games to root against them.  (Unless they're playing the Cubs.) 


As far as the fallacy goes -- even if you didn't have an in-game economy, you'd still have RMT -- people would sell fully levelled characters or fully geared out characters.

[Xanthippe]

As far as the fallacy goes -- even if you didn't have an in-game economy, you'd still have RMT -- people would sell fully levelled characters or fully geared out characters.

I think you're right.

I don't have much of a problem with this, particularly.  I would prefer to play a game that RMT doesn't exist in; I am happy to see it in the TOS; but as far as spending money toward tracking down the RMT people in the game versus making new content or fixing bugs, my priorities are on the latter rather than the former.  Unless RMT fucks up my gaming enjoyment.

It seems impossible to stop. 

I don't know which I would prefer, a game like WoW with RMT going on through outside outfits or SOE who is doing it themselves.  I guess I'd have to see how it works.  I've never engaged in RMT, never sold a toon, never bought gold or other items, nor sold them.  Part of my enjoyment in playing is certainly in playing the in-game economy.  If the in-game economy doesn't get fucked up, then I don't really care.

I would use an alternative to Thott or Alla if there was one, because while the idea of RMT doesn't bother me, IGE does.  They are predators through and through.

[schild]

I actually don't have a problem with gold sellers. I have a problem with the way large gold farming houses and IGE in particularly do business. Which is badly. There's a reason I didn't have a problem with advertisiing gold farming. Specifically, it's taking money from someone you completely don't like. Just because there's something on a website doesn't mean it's something you support. If Alla had let gold farmers advertise instead of completely selling his soul, he could have slapped some banners up, made a pile of cash and still had the opportunity to rail them. Win/win in my book.

Oh, and no question whatsoever - RMT in some form is the future of gaming.

[HaemishM]

How much are these guys actually getting for selling their sites?

More than they ever should have.

[HaemishM]

Anyway Haem, when someone comes along and plunks down ten million dollars for GameAngst, and the real tangible allure of being filthy rich overwhelms you, I promise not to call you a hypocrite or whatever.  The ability to, say, fly one's hypothetical child across the world for a bone-marrow transplant fifteen years from now (or whatever) outweighs taking an ethical stance against people who run sweatshops to sell play-money in videogames.  At least in my book.

But I am not YOU.

I'd welcome anyone to try to test my resolve on this one, of course. Just having millions waved in my face would probably be enough to give me a chubby for a week.

But I do truly believe I could turn down IGE, or someone quite like it.

[HaemishM]

Some of you folks act as if RMTing is evil or something. Come on. Does anyone really think anything in the entertainment business is some altruistic pursuit inspired by raw divinity?

Now, I can certainly see people turning down real money for truly bad things (drug trafficking, assassination, you know, the bad stuff). But "selling out" a website to a bunch of money folks who care not for the quality of any individual element when they're basking in the richness of the cumulative total? Come on. Some people just need to get their backs up about stupid shit don't they.

IGE is hinky. Shady. As in probably some kind of money laundering operation. They hide it well enough that nothing can be proven, but there's something rotten in Denmark.

But even beyond all that, I have no problem with the RMT concept IF IT'S DONE BY THE PEOPLE WHO MADE THE GAME. I have no problem with them making money from idiots who want to shortcut the entire mechanics of the game to get to the "fun" part, because when they realize they just spent $1000 real dollars on the fun and it's NOT fun, I can LAUGH. But I have serious problems with butt pirates who have nothing to do with the game, have no concern for the game's well-being, sitting like a goddamn barnacle on the bottom of these whales and feeding on the low hanging fruit. They are leeches. And they are turning a game I might enjoy into a job, either for them or someone else. They turn people who might be interested in the game aspect into people who see the whole exercise as a way to cash in on easy money. And when easy money gets waved in people's faces, their inhibitions drop like a sorority girl at a kegger.

[schild]

Hat trick!

[HaemishM]

At least it wasn't SirBruced.