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Bunk
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Reply #35 on: April 10, 2006, 12:49:42 PM

I stand by the opinion that the best RP happens in PVP+ games. Simply because people are able to react to one another in ways other than channel screaming.


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tazelbain
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tazelbain


Reply #36 on: April 10, 2006, 12:52:05 PM

We play whatever roles the developers give us and until now they have been shallow roles.

"Me am play gods"
Lantyssa
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Reply #37 on: April 10, 2006, 01:38:42 PM

I'm not sure why PvP is a necessity.  I can see where some of you enjoy the extra danger and freedom it offers, but not everyone wants that style of conflict.  Despite avoiding PvP most of the time, I have fun roleplaying in all the games I play.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
tazelbain
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tazelbain


Reply #38 on: April 10, 2006, 02:34:45 PM

EDIT: booched.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2006, 03:11:36 PM by tazelbain »

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HaemishM
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Reply #39 on: April 10, 2006, 02:55:24 PM

I'm not sure why PvP is a necessity. I can see where some of you enjoy the extra danger and freedom it offers, but not everyone wants that style of conflict. Despite avoiding PvP most of the time, I have fun roleplaying in all the games I play.

It's necessary because conflict is what makes games fun, even if the conflict isn't necessarily about bashing someone's head in. The ability to be a villain is important; the other alternative is a world full of heroes with no villains to fight against. Or making a game with much smaller player bases segregated into smaller groups, like DDO only with good gameplay.

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Reply #40 on: April 10, 2006, 06:18:46 PM

It's necessary because conflict is what makes games fun, even if the conflict isn't necessarily about bashing someone's head in. The ability to be a villain is important; the other alternative is a world full of heroes with no villains to fight against. Or making a game with much smaller player bases segregated into smaller groups, like DDO only with good gameplay.
Conflict of that nature makes the game fun for YOU.  Certainly some type of drama/conflict helps but I would argue a roleplayer should be able to make due with whatever is at hand.  For example:

Jersey Girl was my CoH tank.  Eight feet of bovine goodness.  She wasn't too bright, but her heart was in the right place.  She could be considered a joke character, but I played her straight even when I got into a tongue-in-cheek situation.  Her nemesis?  Hero burger.  She was certain they were turning heroes into food and nothing disuaded her.  When she got to the Crey arcs, she realized with horror where their failed experiments went (even if the proof was a little lacking).  Devouring Earth were her favorite enemy because she could get a snack while working.  Yes there was silliness involved, but people had fun playing with me, and I had fun playing her.

My druid, Tsukihana, in WoW.  (I had to play a little fast and loose with WoW history, as I knew none of it up to then.)  She was young during the war four years ago and shuffled about to keep her out of harm's way.  Her parents both died during it, although she knows not when or how.  Maybe being an orphan is cliche, but no one managed to ever get her to talk about it because she always diverts the conversation (rather deftly if I can boast).  As far as anyone knew, she felt very strongly that further fighting between the races was bad for everyone.  It was tilting at windmills, and somewhat hypocritical because she did have to face the Horde, but she wanted to get powerful enough, respected enough, and wise enough to help find a better way.  She did not have the answers but that was not going to stop her from trying.

In Jersey's case, there was no real conflict at all (I rarely invoked Hero Burger).  Took's conflict was all internal in figuring out what she needed to change the world.  I interacted with people using their respective world views and by staying in character.  No PvP was never required.  (While I did some with my Hordling, Took had no PvP kills [or deaths] when I stopped playing at level 45.)

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
dusematic
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Reply #41 on: April 10, 2006, 08:33:54 PM

I actually think taking this position on a website such as this is fairly courageous (relatively speaking).  I guess my only complaint is that you apologized so many times for using the word gay.  That was pretty faggy.
Llava
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Reply #42 on: April 11, 2006, 12:32:08 AM

I actually think taking this position on a website such as this is fairly courageous (relatively speaking).  I guess my only complaint is that you apologized so many times for using the word gay.  That was pretty faggy.

While I was writing it, Queer Eye was running in the background.

Seriously, I wouldn't apologize so much except that I understand why it's offensive.  Certain folks can get away with it without an apologize because they've set their own context already- people expect it and understand the usage.  I, however, haven't and I knew I had to, at the very least, set that up.  My intention is to get a laugh, not offend.  Unless you're a roleplayer and you write erotic fiction about your characters- then you can be offended all you want, but I don't care because you're fucking gay.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
Numtini
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Reply #43 on: April 11, 2006, 06:35:01 AM

Frankly, I'm really tired of hearing gay used as a generic insult. And whether you realize it or not, there are kids who take out of south park that it's acceptable to be insulting to gay kids. Yes, I know that's a full semester of Missing the Point 101, but it does happen. Ok, sermon over.

On the article.

I've been part of some normal RP groups, particularly on Nimue/Albion in DAOC. That worked out well. We just followed the rules of the server. We eliminated out of character chat as much as possible. And we played the game. It was a great level of RP light. I was also in Shadowclan in SB and I've never had a more satisfying level of immersion in a game. Having the clan rep was also fun. People would RP who normally didn't. And I actually got a stream of tells about what a great experience it was to be killed by SC from some guy we slaughtered after one of his companions got mouthy when we were demanding tribute. Shame the game was so messed up. Underlight also had some fantastic RP. I remember spending entire evenings discussing the nature of mares with members of different houses. I was a rabid pacifist who never fought and part of a small little faction that believed they were the victims of dreamstrike. To me Underlight was a great example of what happened when a company really supported roleplayers by, well, just simply kicking out anyone who didn't RP. Unfortunately, it also was a great example of how tiny that market was.

I've never had much interest in the storytelling guilds. I'm glad they're there for the people that want that, but since we can't be GMs, it seems really like swimming against the tide. If I'm going to do that, I'd rather just go to one of the text only RP spaces that facilitate that better. I think trying to do that in most mainstream MMOPRPGs just comes off as a bit silly. I think about the only thing I've really enjoyed for that kind of thing was the short little guild initiations some of our groups have had. But we kept in mind that there was a certain silly quality to it and we got through them quickly and then went out hunting or whatever.

But at least half or more of the "RP" groups I've been part of have been nothing more than pickup spots for cybering. And as time goes on, that seems to be getting more and more the case. When I start in on a new game, I usually start looking for a RP guild, but it's so hard to find one that isn't using it as a euphemism for cybering. And the last few games I've tried that, I've just given up. Maybe we just need "pickup" servers or something.

I think Eve has some great roleplaying on the macro level. Since people aren't necessarily following the game lore or trying to roleplay people don't really notice it. But all that politics to me is a form of roleplaying.

If you can read this, you're on a board populated by misogynist assholes.
Murgos
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Reply #44 on: April 11, 2006, 06:49:00 AM

Frankly, I'm really tired of hearing gay used as a generic insult. And whether you realize it or not, there are kids who take out of south park that it's acceptable to be insulting to gay kids. Yes, I know that's a full semester of Missing the Point 101, but it does happen. Ok, sermon over.


Hey, imagine this.  There is a word that people use to indicate that something is not normal, slightly off and indicates that the subject of the descriptor often makes many people feel uncomfortable.  Now imagine people use that word to describe stuff other than what it was initially used to decribe because it fits.

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HaemishM
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Reply #45 on: April 11, 2006, 08:19:33 AM

I've never had much interest in the storytelling guilds. I'm glad they're there for the people that want that, but since we can't be GMs, it seems really like swimming against the tide.

That's what I mean when I say players can't be villains without PVP. In a non-PVP world, like EQ, trying to Roleplay essentially disintegrates because you can't really make any sort of believable conflict. Sure, you can say "I'll kill all Deathfist orcs" but that never fits the story. The orcs just don't react with any sort of appropriate behavior, and they can't. The story can't really progress. And since no one can GM (and thus play the monsters or the villains), all you have is Improv Theatre with paper dolls.

The computer makes a great dice roller, but a horrible gamemaster.

Roac
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Reply #46 on: April 11, 2006, 09:01:59 AM

Best RP I've seen in an online game is from an IRC game of White Wolf's Vampire game.  Full PvP, perma death, but XP is granted by the Story Tellers (GMs) on pure RP merits.  Downside is that it required a stigma of speccing up combat monkeys - no making a ex-special ops mofo with a bad attitude and sudden desire to murder.  And unfortunately, I don't see MMOs getting to that level of supervision. 

There is still the opportunity afforded by PvP games, which I think support better RP than you'll ever find in a PvP- game.  In addition is the opportunity for devs to supply players with tools to help support that sort of game - better guild tools mostly.  RPing requires a good community, and unfortunately most games lack good tools for players to work with the in-game community.

-Roac
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Reply #47 on: April 11, 2006, 09:26:56 AM

Frankly, I'm really tired of hearing gay used as a generic insult. And whether you realize it or not, there are kids who take out of south park that it's acceptable to be insulting to gay kids. Yes, I know that's a full semester of Missing the Point 101, but it does happen. Ok, sermon over.


Hey, imagine this.  There is a word that people use to indicate that something is not normal, slightly off and indicates that the subject of the descriptor often makes many people feel uncomfortable.  Now imagine people use that word to describe stuff other than what it was initially used to decribe because it fits.

He just made you look like a big fat queer IMO.
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Reply #48 on: April 11, 2006, 09:34:24 AM

He just made you look like a big fat queer IMO.

You seem to be facinated by homosexuality.
dusematic
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Reply #49 on: April 11, 2006, 09:46:17 AM

I'm fascinated by your homosexuality.
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Reply #50 on: April 11, 2006, 09:55:36 AM

I'm fascinated by your homosexuality.

There is only one man I would sleep with: George Clooney.
dusematic
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Reply #51 on: April 11, 2006, 10:12:11 AM

I wouldn't have sex with Tom Cruise, but if my girlfriend did, I'd be like, "Details!"
WayAbvPar
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Reply #52 on: April 11, 2006, 10:25:12 AM

I'm fascinated by your homosexuality.

There is only one man I would sleep with: George Clooney.

He IS pretty dreamy.

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Reply #53 on: April 11, 2006, 11:17:09 AM

I wouldn't have sex with Tom Cruise, but if my girlfriend did, I'd be like, "Details!"
I'd be like, "But he's gay!"

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
jpark
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Reply #54 on: April 11, 2006, 02:05:53 PM

Lava I enjoy your posts and insights on this board but I did not think that article was written very well nor did it comes across well.

I agree that your experience is not one we seek, however, in my experience - so far - roleplay guilds I have been a part of have handled themselves fairly well. (< insert dissertation on criteria here >)

"I think my brain just shoved its head up its own ass in retaliation.
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Llava
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Reply #55 on: April 11, 2006, 09:58:41 PM

Lava I enjoy your posts and insights on this board but I did not think that article was written very well nor did it comes across well.

I agree that your experience is not one we seek, however, in my experience - so far - roleplay guilds I have been a part of have handled themselves fairly well. (< insert dissertation on criteria here >)


Fair enough.

I don't think it's representative of my best work either.  That said, I had fairly short notice and not a lot of (or, really, zero) ideas, so this is what you get.  tongue  These two articles were my "Can I be in the cool kids' club??" contributions, expect actual substance a little down the line.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2006, 10:03:10 PM by Llava »

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
Llava
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Reply #56 on: April 11, 2006, 10:13:22 PM

Frankly, I'm really tired of hearing gay used as a generic insult. And whether you realize it or not, there are kids who take out of south park that it's acceptable to be insulting to gay kids. Yes, I know that's a full semester of Missing the Point 101, but it does happen. Ok, sermon over.

I agree with you 100% (well, except for hearing the term as a generic insult- it's just a funny sounding word and I want it altered from meaning 'homosexual' to being just a generic insult... they already changed the meaning once!) which is why I took so long to explain that I am co-opting the word and that it, in this context, has nothing to do with homosexuality.

But I understand that just because I say that doesn't mean it will magically become inoffensive.

"Niggas gonna be callin' you 'Bitches'!"
"What?"
"Hold on, I mean that you're gonna have so many bitches followin' you around, that that's what they'll call you.  'Bitches'.  No disrespect."
"No disrespect?  You just called your grandfather 'Bitches'!"
"Right, but I don't mean 'Bitches' in a disrespectful way.  I mean it as a general term for women."

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
Hoax
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Reply #57 on: April 12, 2006, 10:23:52 AM

Seriously I think that Boondocks or at least a clip show of Riley should be manditory viewing at most urban schools...

I also like the "game recognize game and I dont recognize you" bit, that was great too.

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sinij
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Reply #58 on: April 12, 2006, 03:11:59 PM

open PVP didn't attract such a bunch of mealy-mouthed, drooling, crumbsnatching, azzraping fucktard mongoloids.

Irony is that hate is equally strong on both sides. If you ask average PvP+ player about typical PvP- player or vice versa you will end up with about equally unflattering descriptions.

Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end.
WindupAtheist
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Badicalthon


Reply #59 on: April 12, 2006, 05:57:31 PM

open PVP didn't attract such a bunch of mealy-mouthed, drooling, crumbsnatching, azzraping fucktard mongoloids.

Irony is that hate is equally strong on both sides. If you ask average PvP+ player about typical PvP- player or vice versa you will end up with about equally unflattering descriptions.

Don't listen to them anyway, sinij, they've been deceived by CAREBEAR PROPAGANDA!


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Tebonas
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Reply #60 on: April 13, 2006, 12:34:03 AM

I knew Goebbels was a stupid fucker. He can't even speak German!
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #61 on: April 13, 2006, 12:51:18 AM

God I love Germgrish (Its like Engrish but with german).
WindupAtheist
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Reply #62 on: April 13, 2006, 01:10:25 AM

Dictionary.com translator for the lose!

"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig."  --  Schild
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Pococurante
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Reply #63 on: April 21, 2006, 05:42:20 PM

Okay. I don't/didn't expect it to be a problem or anything, but just want to cover my ass (ha ha) on that one.

Ok. I stopped reading the thread at this point. I have no interest in your review if you feel you need "shock value" to commend it and defend that nonsense by missing *why* the fags who write Southpark make a parody out of the same Quest For Shock Value.

Oh Noes! I said Fag! I Must Need Shock Value To Protest Shock Value!



I see your Sensitivity Meter and raise it five Quality Content points.
dusematic
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Reply #64 on: May 05, 2006, 01:37:34 PM

He does bring up a good point though.  Roleplaying is pretty gay.
Righ
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Reply #65 on: May 12, 2006, 04:42:32 PM

Put down the queens and tell anti-queer jokes
Gay Lib's ridiculous, join their laughter
'The buggers are legal now, what more are they after?'

The camera adds a thousand barrels. - Steven Colbert
Sachant
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Reply #66 on: May 14, 2006, 02:54:58 PM

I love to RP myself but I find that you either get people that love it but have no concept of what RP should be or at least what GOOD RP should be or you get people that hate it because they either don't get the point or can't do it.  GOOD RP is hard to come by.  Finding people that can keep up with you or even challenge you is extremely hard.  I also think that the elements needed in game to give people something to work with are frequently missing.  This year at E3 it looked like a lot more games are putting the RPG back in MMORPG.  I'd like to hope so at least.  I haven't been able to do much RP in a long while and can't stand the soap opera types of RP that occur frequently.

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Stephen Zepp
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Reply #67 on: May 14, 2006, 09:16:01 PM

In my opinion "RP" isn't about how you talk, but how you act. I agree with the posters that mentioned that PvP (or some form of at least semi-persistent conflict with measurable effects) is critical to the way I view playing a role...because it allows others to see results of the persona you play.

I hate to always refer to my experiences in ShadowBane, but for 6 months I played a role as a leader of a nation bent on a specific, self-assigned (triggered by an ingame series of GM events) set of goals, and both how we acted in game as a nation, as well as how we posted on the political forums were (as best as possible) performed based on the roles we layed out for ourselves early on.

The only other major attempt at "role based playing" I ever tried was when I was a complete newb at Everquest--we attempted to form a troll only guild, little realizing just how important clerics were :P...but it still greatly enhanced our game play experience...and while the troll guild did tend to talk like trolls some, in general it was how we acted, not how we spoke that defined our role.

Rumors of War
Broughden
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Reply #68 on: May 15, 2006, 04:20:47 PM

GOOD RP is hard to come by.

Artemisa growls menacingly at you.
Inotep growls You need to leave
Gedran trys to disguise himself as a tree and makes crow noises.
  wink

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RyosukeFC3
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Reply #69 on: May 23, 2006, 04:00:42 PM

Depends what you mean by roleplay, if you're talking roleplay as in *New member ryosuke entered the forums.*  Then I think it's just horrible, people get way too absorbed into it and sooner or later might start talking in third person.  Anyway, hey guys new to the forums don't know where to post, etc, w/e.

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