Player funeral ambushed.

[Lantyssa]

Those give me a backache just looking at them.

[Azazel]

I laughed. It was actually pretty funny. What's probably sadder is that this dude had more people at his online funeral than his real life one.

Meh, not sure what you're basing this on except that the guy (or girl?) played a MMORPG. You know, like you do, dickhead. Oh, they play(ed) the same one you do (dickhead.)

Anyway, as I was saying over in one of the Teletroll's threads, the anonymity and lack of consequences of the internet will always allow immature jerkoffs to be such without the restraint that they'd show in real life due to the likelyhood of a rabid Haemish punching them in the face. I mean, look at the way that the "devout" Flanders here acts on the internet ^^^ and even I have to be a less abrasive cunt in real life if I want to keep my career path happening. Essentially, society and civilisation keep us all repressed in our real-life actions. Sure we might smash a keyboard or mouse of gamepad now and then in the privacy of our own homem, but how often do we take a baseball bat to someone's car/windows/torso?

Remove consequences and that repression is gone. People who would be fulltime jackasses if only society would let them (without such behaviour ending up with them being big bubba's woman.) will do shit like this. See New Orleans for some detail. The sooner morons like that funeral party realise this and stop holding their publiclly-advertised wedding and funerals in PVP-contested zones the better. Yeah, it does kinda seem like they, or at least whoever picked their venue, used this person's funeral as an opportinuty to bait the griefers and become righteously indignant..

[WindupAtheist]

[1998]You think?[/1998]

[tkinnun0]

Never in the history of mankind has there been an easier way to identify the sociopaths amidst us. Now, if only that information could be used somehow. Perhaps 1 real strike + 2 virtual strikes and you're out.

[Llava]

I say we round 'em up and shoot 'em.

Minority Report was for pussies.

[WindupAtheist]

I get to use this again!

[Strazos]

I really wish that killing another player who is grey to you, unprovoked, would be a DK. That might stop the dumbass gankers sometimes.

I really wish I could punch some of these people in the face.

"ZOMG get the 43 cow war! Lemme hit him with asskandi. OMG gotta camp him too, he's a threat to my epic 60 toon."

Dumbasses.

[Paelos]

I laughed. It was actually pretty funny. What's probably sadder is that this dude had more people at his online funeral than his real life one.

Meh, not sure what you're basing this on except that the guy (or girl?) played a MMORPG. You know, like you do, dickhead. Oh, they play(ed) the same one you do (dickhead.)

Anyway, as I was saying over in one of the Teletroll's threads, the anonymity and lack of consequences of the internet will always allow immature jerkoffs to be such without the restraint that they'd show in real life due to the likelyhood of a rabid Haemish punching them in the face. I mean, look at the way that the "devout" Flanders here acts on the internet ^^^ and even I have to be a less abrasive cunt in real life if I want to keep my career path happening. Essentially, society and civilisation keep us all repressed in our real-life actions. Sure we might smash a keyboard or mouse of gamepad now and then in the privacy of our own homem, but how often do we take a baseball bat to someone's car/windows/torso?

Remove consequences and that repression is gone. People who would be fulltime jackasses if only society would let them (without such behaviour ending up with them being big bubba's woman.) will do shit like this. See New Orleans for some detail. The sooner morons like that funeral party realise this and stop holding their publiclly-advertised wedding and funerals in PVP-contested zones the better. Yeah, it does kinda seem like they, or at least whoever picked their venue, used this person's funeral as an opportinuty to bait the griefers and become righteously indignant..

What a very odd way to agree with exactly what I said in another post.

[Threash]

I really wish that killing another player who is grey to you, unprovoked, would be a DK. That might stop the dumbass gankers sometimes.

I really wish I could punch some of these people in the face.

"ZOMG get the 43 cow war! Lemme hit him with asskandi. OMG gotta camp him too, he's a threat to my epic 60 toon."

Dumbasses.

I really wish everyone who ever complains about being killed on a pvp server no matter the circumstances (as long as it falls within the rules) was forced to reroll on a pve server.  Im sorry but the only dumbass in that situation is the one thats bothered by it.

[tkinnun0]

I also have a dream. I have a dream that, one day, online communities have no rules that limit the interaction of their members. I have a dream that instead, members are encouraged to make their own house rules. Ballet, poetry, improvised theatre, all those and more will be encouraged. And I have a dream, that little Johnny the Jackass will see Mary the Meek performing to a full audience and, unable to help himself, proceed to degrade, call foul and harm them in the worst ways imaginable. And Mary will cry, and her audience will cry, like the meek have always cried. But, friends, my dream does not end there.

Brothers and sisters, I have a dream that before Mary has a even a chance to consider retaliating, Johnny will be taken from his home with no fuss, no appeal, no-one noticing. I have a dream that Johnny will be whisked away to a secret location, and there he will be studied so that nothing he could have contributed in his miserable life will go to waste. And after Johnny has contributed all that he has to contribute, I have a dream that Johnny will cease to be a part of the genepool and the memepool.

And I have a dream, that sooner, rather than later, the meek shall not need to carry their keys or prove their identity ever again in all their living days on God's green Earth under heaven, Allah be praised.

[WindupAtheist]

This noob is scaring me.

[Zetor]

I really wish that killing another player who is grey to you, unprovoked, would be a DK. That might stop the dumbass gankers sometimes.

I really wish I could punch some of these people in the face.

"ZOMG get the 43 cow war! Lemme hit him with asskandi. OMG gotta camp him too, he's a threat to my epic 60 toon."

Dumbasses.

What's to stop people from getting rogues to level 47, twinking them out with the best gear there is (including epic drops) and then just endlessly ganking, knowing full well that 60s dare not attack them (and yes, a 47 with epics, high-end blues and uber enchants > green geared 60)?

Level-based pvp is broken.


-- Z.

[HaemishM]

I think it is hilarious and I am glad it is pissing off so many.  Why should anybody show restraint when the game does not give them any compelling reason for doing so?

Yep, that dishonorable kills penalty was sure a bad idea. There sure would have been a lot of griefing by lowbies.

[Llava]

I also have a dream. I have a dream that, one day, online communities have no rules that limit the interaction of their members. I have a dream that instead, members are encouraged to make their own house rules.

You nailed it right there.

That can't ever happen because of the "if the game lets me do it, I'm supposed to do it!" attitude.

If you don't set hard and fast rules, that crowd will immediately start ruining the fun for other people.  And then we have a problem.

[Xanthippe]

I also have a dream. I have a dream that, one day, online communities have no rules that limit the interaction of their members. I have a dream that instead, members are encouraged to make their own house rules.

You nailed it right there.

That can't ever happen because of the "if the game lets me do it, I'm supposed to do it!" attitude.

If you don't set hard and fast rules, that crowd will immediately start ruining the fun for other people.  And then we have a problem.

Maybe not.  If it works right, then players with the above attitude can be punished by the other players to a greater extent than their griefing allows them to punish players.

[WindupAtheist]

It's like nobody here has ever played an MMO before.  It's 1997 all over again, and you're sure player justice will keep UO players in line.

[Rasix]

Maybe not.  If it works right, then players with the above attitude can be punished by the other players to a greater extent than their griefing allows them to punish players.

 

and just for good measure: 

[Strazos]

I really wish that killing another player who is grey to you, unprovoked, would be a DK. That might stop the dumbass gankers sometimes.

I really wish I could punch some of these people in the face.

"ZOMG get the 43 cow war! Lemme hit him with asskandi. OMG gotta camp him too, he's a threat to my epic 60 toon."

Dumbasses.

What's to stop people from getting rogues to level 47, twinking them out with the best gear there is (including epic drops) and then just endlessly ganking, knowing full well that 60s dare not attack them (and yes, a 47 with epics, high-end blues and uber enchants > green geared 60)?

Level-based pvp is broken.

- Z.

Emphasis mine. Obviously, if a 47 attacks a 60, that 60 is being provoked. In my system, the 47 would then be fair game.

Also, I don't care too much when I get ganked by a epiced 60 in STV or somewhere else. Sure, it's annoying as fuck. Sure, it's a bit irratating that I'm being ganked by someone who Obviously has nothing better to do with their character (or their lives for that matter). What gets me is when they CORPSE CAMP me.

Come the fuck. Great, you killed me, get on with your life....but no, they sit there and camp a lowbie. I see it all the time. And it's nonsense, and nothing else but concentrated griefing. FFS, they don't even get honor/HKs from doing it. They just do it "because they can."

Oh, and trying to throw that line at someone is a cop-out and complete bullshit. Sure, I Could butt in line IRL, or cut people off on the highway, or pull other nonsense...but I don't, because it's fucking stupid.

Though, I guess I will never understand, because I'm nto well aquainted with "teh stoopid."

(Yeah, I spend a lot of time evading 60s in STV. WTF are they doing there anyway?)

[Llava]

Maybe not.  If it works right, then players with the above attitude can be punished by the other players to a greater extent than their griefing allows them to punish players.

I wanted to properly illustrate the size of that "if".  It ain't worked so far, no matter how hard developers wished it would.

For one, policing is MUCH harder than griefing.  I think Lum pointed it out- the griefer can be anywhere and find a way to grief, while the policing player has to be in one specific spot, which is wherever the griefer is.

Players aren't given the tools to track one another down like that.

Finally, players will never be given such authority that they can inflict unavoidable, permanent, serious consequences on other players as effortlessly and as frequently as would be required to be a serious deterrent to real griefers.  Rightfully so.

(griefers, plural, is not in the spell checker)

[MisterNoisy]

(Yeah, I spend a lot of time evading 60s in STV. WTF are they doing there anyway?)

I'd guess they're just killing time ganking lowbies while waiting for the rest of their raid to get to ZG.

[Threash]

I really wish that killing another player who is grey to you, unprovoked, would be a DK. That might stop the dumbass gankers sometimes.

I really wish I could punch some of these people in the face.

"ZOMG get the 43 cow war! Lemme hit him with asskandi. OMG gotta camp him too, he's a threat to my epic 60 toon."

Dumbasses.

What's to stop people from getting rogues to level 47, twinking them out with the best gear there is (including epic drops) and then just endlessly ganking, knowing full well that 60s dare not attack them (and yes, a 47 with epics, high-end blues and uber enchants > green geared 60)?

Level-based pvp is broken.

- Z.

Emphasis mine. Obviously, if a 47 attacks a 60, that 60 is being provoked. In my system, the 47 would then be fair game.

Also, I don't care too much when I get ganked by a epiced 60 in STV or somewhere else. Sure, it's annoying as fuck. Sure, it's a bit irratating that I'm being ganked by someone who Obviously has nothing better to do with their character (or their lives for that matter). What gets me is when they CORPSE CAMP me.

Come the fuck. Great, you killed me, get on with your life....but no, they sit there and camp a lowbie. I see it all the time. And it's nonsense, and nothing else but concentrated griefing. FFS, they don't even get honor/HKs from doing it. They just do it "because they can."

Oh, and trying to throw that line at someone is a cop-out and complete bullshit. Sure, I Could butt in line IRL, or cut people off on the highway, or pull other nonsense...but I don't, because it's fucking stupid.

Though, I guess I will never understand, because I'm nto well aquainted with "teh stoopid."

(Yeah, I spend a lot of time evading 60s in STV. WTF are they doing there anyway?)

In my experience "im being camped" translates into "im too stubborn to leave".  You can't be camped unless you choose to stick around, hell you can't even ganked unless you choose to be on a pvp server.  Pve servers have duels, arenas, and battlegrounds, the ONE AND ONLY difference between pve and pvp servers is that you can be ganked while you are out doing regular stuff.  Thats the only reason to roll on a pvp server, if you don't enjoy the idea that you are constantly in danger, that you can be killed at any time for any reason then theres simply no reason at all for you to be in a pvp server.  Asking to punish gankers is like jumping in front of a moving train and asking the driver to be thrown in jail for murder.

[HaemishM]

Except that ganking is different from PVP. Ganking means getting absolutely assraped not just while you are unprepared, but when you really have no, absolutely none, zero, zilch, the nil set, no ability or chance to win the fight. I play on PVP servers because I want a challenge from other players. Getting ganked is no challenge for the gankee or the ganker, it's frustration.

[Rasix]

Except that ganking is different from PVP. Ganking means getting absolutely assraped not just while you are unprepared, but when you really have no, absolutely none, zero, zilch, the nil set, no ability or chance to win the fight. I play on PVP servers because I want a challenge from other players. Getting ganked is no challenge for the gankee or the ganker, it's frustration.

This is entering waaahbumlance territory. When you join a pvp server, you join with the ruleset it has, not with the ruleset you wish it did.  Getting ganked is completely in your control.

[HaemishM]

I agree, it is in my control.

That doesn't stop the developers from actually doing things that discourage stupid ganking, like the 60 ganking the level 1. Allowing it is just lazy, because it really doesn't have any place in a PVP game other than grief. And whaaaambulances run on the same principles when idiots claim that you can't put in a dishonor penalty because some mythological level 1's will "grief" level 60's by making the 60 attack the 1.

[Threash]

Except that ganking is different from PVP. Ganking means getting absolutely assraped not just while you are unprepared, but when you really have no, absolutely none, zero, zilch, the nil set, no ability or chance to win the fight. I play on PVP servers because I want a challenge from other players. Getting ganked is no challenge for the gankee or the ganker, it's frustration.

You can get that on a pve server with duels and bgs, expecting fair fights out in the open is just crazyness.

[HaemishM]

I'd be happy with half fair fights. Or even a sense of sportsmanship.

But sense it's entirely too much to expect people online to not be complete raging douchebags, I'd rather the game system punish them for douchebaggery, i.e. dishonorable kills.

[Jayce]

i.e. dishonorable kills.

Need I bring up blade spirit/fire field/evortex diving?

[El Gallo]

And whaaaambulances run on the same principles when idiots claim that you can't put in a dishonor penalty because some mythological level 1's will "grief" level 60's by making the 60 attack the 1.

You of all people should understand that griefers will undertake quite a bit of effort to grief.  If there's a serious penalty for instigating attacks on grey players, there is a 1,000% chance that griefing assclowns will be running level 1's around in PvP battles hoping to get tagged by an AoE or someone who mistargets as they stroke their tiny griefer penis thinking about how they are messing up someone's main character.  1,000%.

[bhodi]

As for solutions, it doesn't seem unreasonable for me to have a 'dishonorable penalty' of killing a grey equal to double the negative the honor points off of killing an even leveled mob (with no number of kills limit). As most griefers enjoy PvP this takes care of the vast majority of them while making the penalty low enough that casual PvP is still possible.

[WindupAtheist]

I cannot believe that in 2006, in a game with both PVE and PVP servers, someone is on a PVP server crying about getting azzraped.  It's like the last nine years didn't happen.

[El Gallo]

Are you saying that the penalty for killing a grey would be "you have to go kill two mobs your level"?  That's way too light to deter anyone, at least in a game like WoW.

[Threash]

I cannot believe that in 2006, in a game with both PVE and PVP servers, someone is on a PVP server crying about getting azzraped.  It's like the last nine years didn't happen.

I seriously don't get it.  There should be no penalty whatsoever for killing anyone of any level, its just ridiculous to me that anyone would have the nerve to complain about ganking on a pvp server.  This isn't UO, you had a god damn choice and you chose the server that lets other people gank you.  Personally i think "dishonorable" kills should be encouraged just so people who are bothered by them are forced to roll on a pve server and stfu.

[tazelbain]

I cannot believe that in 2006, in a game with both PVE and PVP servers, someone is on a PVP server crying about getting azzraped.  It's like the last nine years didn't happen.

Na, its the assrapers complaining they have no one to rape because things like battlegrounds have become popular and they can't find helpless victims.

[Threash]

I cannot believe that in 2006, in a game with both PVE and PVP servers, someone is on a PVP server crying about getting azzraped.  It's like the last nine years didn't happen.

Na, its the assrapers complaining they no one to rape because things like battlegrounds have become popular and they can't find helpless victims.

Thats retarded also.   Specially the ones who claim "world pvp took real skill".  Whatever bud, just because you kicked everyones ass when you where ganking farmers, questers and people running into instances and now you cant cut it in bgs doesnt mean world pvp was better.

[Hoax]

It was better because it was more fun due to its unpredictable ever-changing non-scripted nature.

But whatever, I'm over even talking about pvp around here at this time.  These are online games with what is theoretically meant to be a persistent "world" not console/arcade fighting games.  I look forward to talking to you all when you realize the difference.

Or my "kind" or whatever bullshit angry stereotyping would be thrown my way if I actually tried to debate anything in this thread will just be relegated to low-budget niche titles, while you all romp in your linear diku suckfest "online" chatrooms.  Where the only content of the game is playing Barbie dress up with the occasional farming/crafting/grinding/lewtz0r and possibly even sub-par meaningless pvp minigames.