Is there a boredom tipping point that's being reached?

[Modern Angel]

Let me preface this by saying that I'm not claiming WoW is losing subscribers; only a complete and total moron would say that. Rather I think that a good number of people who have been with the game since around launch are trickling away. Let me explain...

Somewhat recently over on Lothar the two main Horde guilds booted their "lesser" members in the middle of the night and formed a new, better cyborg guild. Standard asshole raid drama but it caused alot of high profile players to cancel their accounts under the pretense that the game just wasn't much fun anymore.

I didn't think much of it at the time but I've noticed over the course of the past two months alot of those "high profile, original, from launch" players making their I Quit posts. The major raiding guild on Lothar just lost a bunch of players due to burnout. Another one did the same. In my Horde guild alot of people have started to trickle away in dribs and drabs.

So, I got a little curious. I've recently rerolled Alliance on Kul Tiras because I hated Lothar (drama pit extraordinairre) and, frankly, I was feeling some burnout and wanted to do things from the other side. There, too, some of the players who had done the same (rerolled on a new server for a fresh start) have made their goodbye posts. I checked Khadgar, where I have some RL friends playing and... yep. Guild leaders, high profile PvPers, forum whores... all quitting due to boredom and burnout.

I got a bit more curious and I'm seeing it on a whole lot of realm forums. The question is why all at once?

Again, only a jackass would claim that Blizz is in trouble in any way, shape or form because raiders/hard cores are leaving here and there but it begs the question as to what the game will look like three or four years from now. I say this because despite the casual 1-59 game and recent concessions to non-raiders the entire WoW endgame is geared toward the die hards. I think their business model is based (concious or not) on repeat subscriptions from the non-casuals. Not that this is different from most MMOGs or anything BUT...

How the fuck are they content with two years for an expansion pack? I'm thinking this is what's driving this. Alot of people I've spoken to don't like AQ, don't like the slow patching and can't imagine waiting another two years for an expansion pack after this one. You run out of things to do and no matter how active these games aren't infinite.

Is this the chink in WoW's armor? A problem not tomorrow or next year but long term?

[Morfiend]

Alot of people I've spoken to don't like AQ, don't like the slow patching and can't imagine waiting another two years for an expansion pack after this one. You run out of things to do and no matter how active these games aren't infinite.

Is this the chink in WoW's armor? A problem not tomorrow or next year but long term?

I think you got it in one right there. People like the game, but with the slow slow patching, and not much new content people are bored. I think this is where you start to see the real difference between online game and virtual world. In a virtual world, players really feel like they live there, and continue to find things to do. When you have been spoonfed content, and there really is no more, you get bored. Also, one of the major draws of these Diku style games (hell, and RPG type) is advancement. What do you do when you have the best shit in the game, wether it be BWL/AQ loot or the PVP gear. People are starting to plateau and they get bored. I know I am feeling it myself. Pretty much the only thing I enjoy any more is raiding, and my guild raids 3 days a week now. Usually due to RL stuff I miss one of those days, so I have 2 evenings worth of interesting stuff. And my guild is still pushing BWL. I could see how a BWL farming guild could easilly get bored. Yeah, AQ was new, but the majority of the loot is about the same as BWL stuff, so its not a major character advancement. I think the only way to get around this happening is to release expansions ala EQ, keep pushing the level cap higher and higher, keep giving new shineys to strive for. New areas to explore and destroy. If Blizzard hopes to keep the numbers it has now, they have to get faster with their expansions.

It didnt help that the last patch was a total desaster ether. For every thing they added or fixed, they introduced 5 new bugs. Yeah, yeah, thats standard I know, but this one IMO has been the worst one to date.

[Modern Angel]

Back in my teenage day I worked at a burger place. At this burger place we had waffle fries and regular straight fries. We made them both at the same time and, really, there wasn't any difference besides the shape. We'd ask people at the drive through, "Waffle or regular?" And each and every day people would pick one or the other. Not one person waffle, the next straight. Inexplicably they'd all choose exactly the same.

This is apropos of nothing beyond the fact that I've found it just as strange that guilds are breaking up and people leaving due to boredome all at roughly the same time. It's like there was this time limit when people's patience finally just ran out: you play for 1.5 years you quit.

The glacial pace of their content is starting to wear on me, as well. I like shiny. I want shiny. I don't have to be first but by fucking God if you're going to make a game that caters almost solely to the achiever in me you better crank the new stuff out.

I really have my doubts as to whether a fresh batch of level 70s will be willing to wait two years for the second expansion.

[Merusk]

Yes, it's the slow patching and lack of anything new.  With Raid Lockouts and timers and such you can only do so many instances.  If your goal is to raid every night, that means you're doing a LOT of repeat content, particularly if you're one of the hardcore on-every-day players.  

 This is something we talked about before the game was released.  It was pointed out that the most likely path for things happening was that EQ2 was going to be out early, suck hard in the beginning and change over time into something that may or may not be fun. Meanwhile WoW was going to be great, but lose folks over-time because of Blizzard's glacial pace for doing anything.   This seems to be playing-out in at least a small way with the hardcore, oldschool MMO crowd.

I'll even admit to suffering from a bit of burnout.  I've been playing Gal Civ 2 like mad rather than logging-in to WoW, and I've been contemplating checking out another MMO.  Sure, my guild is only just getting into MC and running Ony, but that means nobody wants to do anything during the week.  That's 5 days of boredom for myself, since I have set days I want to PvP and can work around the house.  I don't feel like logging-in every night just to queue-up while watching TV.

Simply put.. there's a lack of things to DO, even if you do raid.

Edit:
Waffle fries?  You work at Mr. Hero? Mmmm love me some waffle fries once in a while.

[Rasix]

Let me preface this by saying that I'm not claiming WoW is losing subscribers; only a complete and total moron would say that. Rather I think that a good number of people who have been with the game since around launch are trickling away. Let me explain...

Somewhat recently over on Lothar the two main Horde guilds booted their "lesser" members in the middle of the night and formed a few, better cyborg guilds. Standard asshole raid drama but it caused alot of high profile players to cancel their accounts under the pretense that the game just wasn't much fun anymore.

I didn't think much of it at the time but I've noticed over the course of the past two months alot of those "high profile, original, from launch" players making their I Quit posts. The major raiding guild on Lothar just lost a bunch of players due to burnout. Another one did the same. In my Horde guild alot of people have started to trickle away in dribs and drabs.

Recently on my server, two of the top alliance guilds did roughly the same thing.  The "hardcore" members of the guild were frustrated that they were having low turnouts for a mob that was actively cockblocking them in AQ (Princess Huhu, the new guild breaker).  Keeping a lot of people in the dark, they split off and formed a new guild for the more serious raiding contingent among them.  They said it was to "reunite old friends" since members of these guilds had formed due to a similar split/merger many months ago.  It's bullshit, they got frustrated on being stuck in AQ and people ducking raids because no one likes wiping to a mob continually all night and thus decided to take the easy way out and just throw the weak overboard.

Also in the same month a long time horde guild split up, they weren't anything significant, but they'd been around since damn near launch (broke up after recently downing Rag I think).  Another horde guild split up recently in a manner similar to the alliance fiasco.  A guild called "Mystic Circle" had the guild leader quit the guild and form a more raid focused, elitist splinter group called "RareSpawn".  The split off guild originally tried to steal the entire guild bank assets also.  The impetus for this split might be stress over trying to beat Nef.  The original guild was a rather relaxed raiding guild but had a decent amount of progress and could be considered the third best guild horde side.

People have quit the game over this.  A lot of the enjoyment of the game for people that enjoy raiding is the group they're currently in.  Starting over is not fun. Finding a new guild is not fun.  I imagine the people that got left behind are feeling a bit shell shocked.  Hell, both alliance guilds in that split/merger lost upwards of 15-20 core raiders each. That effectively halts all of their progress and puts them immediately into recruiting mode or just running ZG and AQ20 (if they can muster the numbers).  I know if my guild broke up or I was culled in some sort of refocusing effort, I'd put my chances of quitting at around 90%.  Hell, it could happen to, our guildmaster is really scratching his head as to why we've been playing like complete shit lately (we had a wipe on Rags for fuck's sake).

I got a bit more curious and I'm seeing it on a whole lot of realm forums. The question is why all at once?

It's people hitting a content wall.  AQ just put up a new one for people to run full force in to.  Raid guilds will tend to get stuck on certain mobs, and when that happends, certain things are sure to manifest.

1) Frustrations run high. Wiping 6-10 times a night on the same encounter is just discouraging and frustrating.  20g repair bills a night.

2) Attendance dips for learning new content.  People log on for the candy runs but you can barely field a raid for days that are garunteed to be nothing but getting your ass kicked. 

3) People start logging off early.  People start openly bitching in raid chat.  People get really touchy over insignificant crap.

When this happends the higher ups in the guild start making policy decisions that basically try to enforce attendence on wipe nights that ends up having a negative impact on morale.

Lets see what our guild came up with in a meeting (note that these measures passed with near 90% approval).

1. Raids will be random and announced 1 hour before the scheduled raid time. Still gives people ample time to come up with an excuse or just log the hell off.

2.  DKP for learning encounters is doubled. (I like this one).

3.  Inactive status can be obtained in 1 week.  1 week of bad attendance and you're not getting first shot at any loot.  (Was 2 weeks).

4.  To stay off inactive you must show up for 6 hours of new material each week.  This is in addition to making at least 3 raids during the week.

This had resulted in at least 3 active raiders taking some time off.  This hasn't fixed all raid attendance issues, but it has resulted in progress towards downing our current content block (twin emps).

However, we just seem sloppy lately.  I don't know if it's a higher than normal amount of recruits, burn out, getting disinterested in killing the same shit over and over again for crappy loot tables (de'ing multiple drops from Chromag is discouraging), or just a general lull, but we've been aweful. Taking multiple attempts to down f'ing Vael makes me want to heave.

Is this the chink in WoW's armor? A problem not tomorrow or next year but long term?

You'd think so, but.. whenever we open up for applications, we get more than we can handle.  As much the end gaming might be suffering from attritition to due boredom and frustation, it's getting replaced continually by new blood.  The game just has too much momentum to be derailed.  I see new 60s all of the time.  The casuals now have several things to keep them busy at 60. 

The only real thing they haven't given a lot of attention to is the pre-60 game.  Which is somewhat understandable from my position because it doesn't take long to hit 60 and I never really found myself wanting for content. 

Heh, this would have made a decent article (sans rambling).  The topic, I mean, not my craptastic writing.

[Modern Angel]

I can only speak for myself but what I've loved about MMOGs has never been the social aspect but the scope of the world and game, the fact that, in theory, it would never end until I chose to make it end. With single player games like Oblivion and Spore coming out that have that scope I'm going to be hard pressed to stick with the game post expansion unless it completely wows me. I sort of doubt that's going to happen.

[Rasix]

I can only speak for myself but what I've loved about MMOGs has never been the social aspect but the scope of the world and game, the fact that, in theory, it would never end until I chose to make it end. With single player games like Oblivion and Spore coming out that have that scope I'm going to be hard pressed to stick with the game post expansion unless it completely wows me. I sort of doubt that's going to happen.

Oblivion somewhat kills my will to log in also.  Oblivion is filled with new and interesting things.  WoW on Tuesday is something I'm garaunteed to have seen.

[Modern Angel]

Oddly, Guild Wars is starting to really appeal to me again. I want scope by myself and light play with other people. Or I'm starting to, anyway. I liked the Factions preview alot and so long as I don't treat GW like I do an MMOG (ie logging in more than is healthy and catassing) it's fun.

I guess what's puzzling to me isn't so much people quitting (I expect that) as it is the way it's seemed to happen all at once. It's almost like the Hominid French Fry Hive Mind effect I mentioned, some quasi-mystical link where people want and hate the same things at the same time. I wonder what Richard Gere would say...

[schild]

I think, and I may be wrong, that Modern Angel works/worked for Arcadian Del Sol. Did your manager have a special....hat?

[Modern Angel]

Nope. He thought wearing hats indoors was rude so he wore a big hair net instead. Go fgiure. Whatever happened to Arcadian, anyway? Just to derail the topic, of course.

[bhodi]

Lots and Lots of WoW. 47 hours this week? Doesn't seem right, since his all-time is only double that. He also posted last July. What ever happened to arcadian radio? I vaguely remember him doing a podcast thingy...

[Merusk]

Arc quit writing to manage a chik-fil-a restaurant his buddy owned.  As a result, his time to do internet stuff decreased significantly and he seems to have abandoned it.  I've seen him online on x-fire over the last week, but not ever having known him personally, I didn't think to msg him and ask what drew him out after all this time.  I imagine it was vacation or another ugly house-repair injury.

[Modern Angel]

I always enjoyed his writing over the years. To answer your question, Merusk, it was Backyard Burgers.

[Shockeye]

Arcadian and I have a special relationship. I know he misses me. Terribly.

[Strazos]

I can totally see how people would get burned out, but I also don't want to see the mudflation that I saw in EQ, such as more and more vanilla content and crap like AAs.

Especially AAs, I hated that shit in EQ. I got disgusted when I couldn't get into a decent guild because my rogue didn't have an extra 5% to stamina and dodge.

[Modern Angel]

I think it's the nature of the beast. World of Warcraft doesn't have much "World" to it and it caters to one type of player, that being the achiever. I know they give token xp for exploring but seriously... drop in the bucket. Where do they go? They've made the game and it is what it is. I don't really see where they can go except for mudflation.

[Rasix]

They've made the game and it is what it is. I don't really see where they can go except for mudflation.

My question is: why would they need to go in another direction?  The "lack" of world, the catering to the achiever, has them up to their ears in cash.  Part of my ramble had a point and that what you're seeing on your server and others is cyclic.  It's happening all of the time and just naturally happens when people hit content walls or simply run out of crap to do (wish I had that problem, raiding leaves too much shit undone).  Guild fragment, people quit.  This happened when people were first learning MC and Onyxia, when they hit Rag, when they hit Vael, when they're learning Nef and now when they hit massive cockblocks in AQ like Princess Huhu and the Twin Emps.  It isn't a sudden trend, it isn't a graze along the port side of the Titanic, it's just a blip in the heartbeat. (I don't know how the cycle works for casuals or how it works for die hard PVPers.)

They'll add content.  They'll add more content.  They'll add different types of content (PVP, raid, solo, group). They'll do it at a glacial place. Many people will quit, even more will subscribe. ... Profit.

[El Gallo]

[Drudge siren]BLIZZARD IS SLOW AS SHIT AT MAKING ANYTHING....DEVELOPING[/Drudge siren]

[Fabricated]

I'm getting bored and I haven't even done ZG or AQ or BWL or anything past the first 10th of MC yet. I'm officially getting burnt the fuck out on Stratholme despite the fact I really like its general look and really like killing the undead for some reason, and I've never liked Scholo or the Blackrock Spire series (Everything in Blackrock Mountain fucking sucks. Big black square rooms with muddy textures and too much trash).

For some reason no one in my guild ever wants to do Dire Maul despite the fact it's much easier in terms of pulling, has some of the absolute best non-epic loot, and is generally much more fun than the older instances.

We don't have the numbers to even attempt a 20-manner. We have maybe 12-13 level 60 players, and one 60 priest who is on with any regularity (he is very very good at what he does though). My guild leader is interested in maybe forming an alliance with another extremely laid-back casual guild to take a shot at AQ20/ZG/*BRS so we don't have to group with random chuckleheads.

Raid content is the fucking devil and Blizzard needs to stop making it.

[Modern Angel]

I'm not saying that they need to go in another direction. It was stated that going in a mudflation direction would suck and my reply was that it's pretty much the only place they can go. They've killed world PvP, created a static (albeit fun for a year and a half) world, crafting is useless and haven't released any instance besides a raid dungeon in a year; I'll tack on that I am a raider to that last statement as a qualifier.

I think some of these content problems are exacerbated by the fact that it's just so easy to get to 60. The raiding is the most accessible I've seen, too, as much as people think it's not. I think that one piece a couple months ago by Lum (The game is TOO accessible!) may be on the right track.

[Jayce]

I think that if they haven't quit up until now, they are doing great.  I personally got to 58 then quit the game for quite a while.  A friend lured me back and I hit 60 and started raiding, and now I once again have WAY too much to do in the game.  So much I can't see being bored for many months. But then the boredom bug strikes without warning, so who knows.

I am not sure about the large amount of people quitting.  I suspect that if you check the forums at any given time you will see a large percentage of I Quit posts.  I'm sure the percentage goes up and down.  You might have caught it on an upswing, but depending on your expecatations, you might have caught it on a downswing and still been surprised by the amount.

I personally have not seen a surge in people quitting.  People come and go, that's the nature of MMOGs.  In my guild for some reason we are having a large amount of old players returning at the moment.  I think it's just random.

I personally don't mind the slow patching.  But then again I only play 4 hours a day, maybe 6 on a weekend night clearing MC, and not every day.  Those with 12 hr a day habits can be expected to burnout quickly.   It would be nice if that glacial pace was matched with high quality patches for the time invested, though...

[Nija]

2.  DKP for learning encounters is doubled. (I like this one).

3.  Inactive status can be obtained in 1 week.  1 week of bad attendance and you're not getting first shot at any loot.  (Was 2 weeks).

4.  To stay off inactive you must show up for 6 hours of new material each week.  This is in addition to making at least 3 raids during the week.

Do you ever wish you played with us on a real server? You would have went out in a hacking blaze of glory a year ago and reclaimed so much of your life.

You're paying $15/month to show up at work 6 hours per week? Pay me $5 and I'll staple gun you a few times a month. Same thing.

Playing WoW seems pathetic, and I've currently got 4 active subscriptions to mmo games.

Back on topic, I'm really amazed it took people this long to get bored. I wouldn't complain about the 2 year wait for a WoW expansion. Most big WoW patches have more content than any other games expansions.

[Hoax]

WoW will also maintain large large numbers for the same reason EQ1 did, we all know that somewhere in the 1-3million of their subs are brand new to the MMO scene.  Which means to them WoW is the greatest thing ever, whereas everyone else is suffering from "goddamn I've seen this pattern before and I know where this is going" syndrome.

Kill big dragon X times so you can get +3 stat upgrade
Wait for new big dragon to be patched in while killing same old big dragon over and over so other fuckers can get their +3 shiney.
Repeat

Toss in the occasional increase to the level cap and viola, Moneyhats!

I'm sure fucking glad that is the winning formula of MMO design.

[Rasix]

Do you ever wish you played with us on a real server? You would have went out in a hacking blaze of glory a year ago and reclaimed so much of your life.

I'll never play on a PVP server for this type of game. Ever. I don't want to be bothered anymore by the 19 year old version of myself when leveling (because I have to, yay).  Yes, I'm a giant wuss now.  Given the right game system, I could be less wussy (possibly).

You're paying $15/month to show up at work 6 hours per week? Pay me $5 and I'll staple gun you a few times a month. Same thing.

I don't.  I show up when I show up. Nothing's changed for me. Enforcement for time cards is surprisingly lax in a video game.  I was one of the no votes for every one of the measures beyond the more DKP stuff.  I'm sure I'd be one of the first culled if our guild was to fragment or go even more hardcore.   

Playing WoW seems pathetic, and I've currently got 4 active subscriptions to mmo games.

Back on topic, I'm really amazed it took people this long to get bored. I wouldn't complain about the 2 year wait for a WoW expansion. Most big WoW patches have more content than any other games expansions.

I'm afraid to ask what the other 3 are (other than EVE).  You going to ship me that PS2 anytime soon?  You could cure me of my WoW habit.

[Nija]

Eve, Eve, Eve, EQ2.

Sure, email me your address. nijasan@gmail.com

[Margalis]

I see a lot of people on FFXI boards who have left and are now coming back. And I see very few people leaving for WoW.

One of the things FFXI did right is there are a lot of different end-game activities. You can do big group stuff, small group stuff, missions and quests, grind for merits (another kind of end-game XP), participate in level-capped stuff, etc. FFXI also has a ton of different jobs you can raise which is not as painful as rolling an alt because it's the same character and you can switch back at any time.

WoW seems like the end-game is either battlegrounds (which have issues) or the same raids over and over again. Either that or roll a totally new character that has no relation to the first.

[bhodi]

I see a lot of people on FFXI boards who have left and are now coming back. And I see very few people leaving for WoW.

One of the things FFXI did right is there are a lot of different end-game activities. You can do big group stuff, small group stuff, missions and quests, grind for merits (another kind of end-game XP), participate in level-capped stuff, etc. FFXI also has a ton of different jobs you can raise which is not as painful as rolling an alt because it's the same character and you can switch back at any time.

WoW seems like the end-game is either battlegrounds (which have issues) or the same raids over and over again. Either that or roll a totally new character that has no relation to the first.

Having 20 armiores and 10 million gil made the game extremely fun :(
I won't go back, though - FUCK genkei. Fuck it long, and fuck it hard.

[Dren]

Ok, I'll take my stab at this.

- Oblivion rocks and I've had no interest playing WoW lately.  I'm not to the point of cancelling, but after a month of no play I might consider it.  Perhaps there are a lot of other people in the same boat?
- When you lose your guild, WoW is not fun on its own post 60.  I've been through that lull.  I basically played WoW by myself for a few weeks and was ready to quit.  Once I found a good guild again, it was like a whole new game.  These people you mention all have the same thing in common, loss of their guild.  Facing the fact that you have to start over again trying to build up a database of friends is probably more than I'd be willing to do again.  I'd quit too.

When you design a game that forces you to have such a tight guild to get the ultimate goodies, this is what you get.  Eventually all guilds fall apart or move on to the next shiny game.  I believe the loss of a guild in MMOGs is the single most powerful cause for cancellations.  I'd think these companies would try to buildi their games so that people are more flexible than this, but go go 20+ man content. /shudder

The FFXI comments?  No way I'd go back to that.  I know they've made the grind easier, but it will still be orders of magnitude harder than WoW.  WoW has it right as far as nice casual 1-59 level building.  If anything, games should do this yet easier.  Yes, it makes it so you have to hand feed content.  That just means you have to work at feeding it.

I'm amazed Blizzard doesn't have the cash and planning to just continuously pump out the content.  They are in such a good position right now to maintain dominance for years to come.  Of course, they can choose the UO route and blow their top position with bad decisions for many years and still make some money.

I also believe there will be a point where the truly casual will all hit that 60 level and find out there really isn't much more for them and quit.  They'll start to lose big numbers then, at least for the US market.

[Numtini]

A few high end raiders quitting won't affect the game because those aren't the masses who play. The high end is very important because it gives players something as a goal, while expansions and new dungeons continue to move that goal further away. But as a community? It's just not that big. They burn out, blow up in drama. But it doesn't have that much of an affect because it's a tiny percentage of your community.

IMHO that concept of a goal most players never reach is why building content exclusively for 1-5% of your players works as a business model. Your ubers are effectively a marketing scheme.

Or that's my 2p.

[TheWall]

I've had WAY more fun with all characters below level 40 then I ever did with my 60s. Honestly there is a lot of content in the pre 60 game. I just keep making alts on Horde and Alliance. Then I level them in different zones than I did the others. Being low level is fun. I have a 21 druid that I keep logged in Redridge. I login, gank until there is too much high level heat and log out. Who needs the end game. There is a lot to do pre-60. Honestly its a different game with every different character class. Why be in a hurry to get a full time job end game?

[HaemishM]

Playing WoW seems pathetic, and I've currently got 4 active subscriptions to mmo games.

You do realize you sound like a fucking blackass pot, right?

[Zane0]

Lots will be back for Naxx in all likeliness.  Hardcore guilds on my server have had some churn, but from what I've seen, a lot of the churn seem to play alts on PvP servers or somesuch. 

EDIT: Really though, the hardcore guilds are having fallout because AQ's itemization is a tad off from what a lot expected.  It's essentially filled with itemization that was otherwise lacking, such as druid feral gear.  This caters to a minority; the vast majority of raiding players are not interested in loot from the first half of the instance.  Where the items start getting interesting (increase in ilevel) is at the twin emperors, but this fight requires more coordination and skill than what most BWL guilds are used to.

So, the super hardcore guilds are capable of progressing past the emps and getting some rare upgrades.  The lite hardcore guilds (the vast majority) have a lot of trouble getting to this point, and since the loot isn't there, a lot lose interest.  Either that, or they find or form a guild that can get to this point.

I see it as the raiding playerbase coping with how the top raid game is now structured.  When BWL was at the top end, it offered upgrades that were really far more accessible in comparison.

In my opinion, Blizzard is being too careful about mudflation.  They're adding to the end extreme of the raiding spectrum rather than shifting the entire thing forwards.

[Modern Angel]

On the content front my guildmates and I came to the realization that the majority of the stuff coming in the expansion pack is already in the data files right now, just locked up. There was a pretty cool video that came out way back when of a guy who hacked the files (assume on his own little private server) and went riding around. Black Morass, Hyjal, Caverns of Time and so on.

So if it's taking them two years to finish up the stuff that's already in game I shudder to think about expansion number two. I was not a Blizzard fan when I came to WoW so while I'd heard of their slow release schedules I had no idea. We can talk about what would make WoW better or worse all we want but the only hard fact is that people demand expansions for Diku games. Start dragging and, well... I could see them take a small tumble (though still be a raging success) if they continue to ass drag with the post-70 expansion.

[Nija]

Playing WoW seems pathetic, and I've currently got 4 active subscriptions to mmo games.

You do realize you sound like a fucking blackass pot, right?

I've done WoW raiding and it takes up more time and it's less fun than what I'm doing now.

Then again I don't give a shit about the shiny, so I'm not the target audience.

[HaemishM]

A good bowel movement is more fun than raiding.

That doesn't change the fact you called playing WoW pathetic at the same time you admitted to being a multi-account holder in another MMOG. You're like a crack addict spitting on an alcoholic.