Shadowbane goes to no subscription fee

[HRose]

The game is incredibly clunky. The point is that it's not just the client to be archaic, but even the design.

Some things can be justified, like the game having bugs or not having a very good client. But the design isn't something that needs special resources to make it right.

I'm really fighting with the game and the UI to have an idea about what the game wants me to do. At some point I inadvertently killed the mini map and I just couldn't find a way to have it back. I don't understand how to export the UI setting so that I don't lose everything if I happen to mess things again.

The character development is really obscure. As a warrior I cannot even figure the combat, if there is something to figure out. I don't seem to have any skill to use so what I can do is just attack and then hope the combat goes well. No other input whatsoever.

I have a minutaur with a 2h sword. I've noticed that I have percent skills, but I cannot figure out which one is directly related to my sword (I cannot understand if I need a specific 2h sword skill or if there's just a generic sword skill for every type of weapon). And these skills only advance through training? And I gimp my character if I train incorrectly? And what's the practical result of training?

Btw, isn't there an option to NOT reduce the other characters to 2D silhouettes as they are slightly zoomed out? Come on, I have a powerful PC, I would like to see at least the other characters looking acceptable instead of flickering placeholders...

I also wonder if there's a way to remove the input bar at the bottom of the chat box. I was able to trigger it on, but now I cannot remove it anymore (I have a chat box for the chat and another for the combat, so I don't need the input box in this one).

[HaemishM]

For those stuck with shitty download speeds, if you have the original CD, you can install from that and let it patch. It'll patch you up to current.

I re-activated and will probably see how much of it I can stand at lunch. What server is everyone going to be on?

[Shockeye]

From what I understand, if you reactivate with the expansions now enabled, you can re-install from the original CD and the new content will be downloaded via the updater.

[Shockeye]

What server is everyone going to be on?

Pick one and I'm there. Sand elf Irekei 4tehwin.

[HRose]

The damn patcher doesn't resume the downloads. I had quite a bit of problems to get the texture file all at once. It's 480Mb.

[HaemishM]

L2patchNob.

[AshenTemper]

I always understood that the issue was bandwidth.  PnC movement involves giving the server a single set of coordinates and letting it move you there.  WASD movement requires the server to know every point along your route.

We did implement keyboard movement early on but it caused a lot of bandwidth issus due to the way the PnC movement system works.  It would take a lot of ripping out of old code and reimplementing an entirely new movement system (which we have come close to doing many times).  With that said, any future products we have will definitely include WASD+.

[sinij]

SB is not newbie friendly, on par with Dread Lord days of UO. You will get PKed until you quit in frustration, unless you happen to find a guild that willing to take you in.

SB interface is one of the best of many mmorpgs I played but again its not newbie friendly like the rest of the game. Once you get used to not close you minimap and chat windows you are good to go.

I suggest you RTFM before you play, or even better ‘newbie guide’ linked on chronicles, a lot of your questions will be answered.

As to your warrior – at level one you can only kick (accessible through powers window or you can bind a key to it)  but once you get few levels and get to train your main weapon skill (i.e. sword) you will get more options. These called weapon styles. Fully developed warrior character has about 8 different styles available plus number of abilities like stances, disk powers and racial abilities.

You also have to worry about promotional class and your template. Not all templates are equal, unlike WoW you CAN gimp your character to levels where it won’t be competitive and will require rerolling.

[AshenTemper]

Hit the Escape (ESC) key to bring up the main menu.  You can turn on (and off) pretty much all the windows and GUIs through that.

[Signe]

  With that said, any future products we have will definitely include WASD+.

He ALMOST said Shadowbane 2.  I just know it.

[sinij]

I always understood that the issue was bandwidth.  PnC movement involves giving the server a single set of coordinates and letting it move you there.  WASD movement requires the server to know every point along your route.

We did implement keyboard movement early on but it caused a lot of bandwidth issus due to the way the PnC movement system works.  It would take a lot of ripping out of old code and reimplementing an entirely new movement system (which we have come close to doing many times).  With that said, any future products we have will definitely include WASD+.

Please don't, I for one HATE WASD in 3D MMOGs, save it for FPS. Reason is that for good PvP you need FREE hand for macros, so you should be able to control your character with just one hand. If you move with WASD, like WoW and rotate camera with mouse you have very little time for using powers/spells/whatnot.


On top of that WASD movment ends up centering PvP too much on range dancing - knowing your range exactly and being able to step in and out becomes a lot more important than anything else. IMO not a good model of PvP.

[Signe]

Unfortunately, Sinij, you and maybe 14 other people feel that way.  Most people prefer WASD or, at least, the choice to use both.  If there's a choice, I'm all for the choice choice.

[AshenTemper]

Oh, I didn't say we wouldn't have PnC; I've come to love PnC.  But we will also have WASD+.  In today's market, it is almost a necessity since that is the norm most gamers are use to (and it is much easier to walk up staircases with keyboard movement).

[sinij]

Character creation- WTF?  I did some reading here and there and still only had a vague idea as to what the hell was going on.  Figured this was a learning character though, and now I have a vague idea what to go next time.  I made a red devil looking race person and chose rogue as my profession.

Character creation is one of the nicest things about SB. It has depth no other game has. As a result it is very confusing to newbies. My suggestion is to find a template guide, newer the better, and follow it to the letter. Spend at least 2 hours researching your template before you roll character – read guides, get a feel what work and what doesn’t and most importantly how that character going to play. Don’t hesitate to ask people on class forums about your template.

[sinij]

Unfortunately, Sinij, you and maybe 14 other people feel that way.  Most people prefer WASD or, at least, the choice to use both.  If there's a choice, I'm all for the choice choice.

For example in WoW you can PnC but without using WASD you can't compete in PvP since they put 'target is behind' and many range limitations in, so PvP in WoW is about facing opponent at all times, staying in range and having better gear. Not a good mix IMO.

[Alkiera]

Character creation is one of the nicest things about SB. It has depth no other game has.

YES.  This is part of what drew me to the game years ago.  Why, oh why oh why, don't more games do this?

As a result it is very confusing to newbies.

Oh, right.  That's why.

My suggestion is to find a template guide, newer the better, and follow it to the letter. Spend at least 2 hours researching your template before you roll character – read guides, get a feel what work and what doesn’t and most importantly how that character going to play. Don’t hesitate to ask people on class forums about your template.

They should go the AC route and include a 'pick a template' thing during creation.  I'm pretty sure I gimped myself a bit during creation... Tho I'm liking my staff-weilding healer.  I could 2-shot newbie mobs at level 1.  And even tho I get armor skills, I'm not sure whether I should go that route or not if I plan to go Channeler.  I'm not sure I have the patience to absorb the forums to figure out what the build du jour is.

Alkiera

[Alkiera]

Unfortunately, Sinij, you and maybe 14 other people feel that way.  Most people prefer WASD or, at least, the choice to use both.  If there's a choice, I'm all for the choice choice.

For example in WoW you can PnC but without using WASD you can't compete in PvP since they put 'target is behind' and many range limitations in, so PvP in WoW is about facing opponent at all times, staying in range and having better gear. Not a good mix IMO.

That's because it was designed for WASD with PnC tacked on.  If their WASD system acted like CoH, where facing isn't as important, then it wouldn't be an issue.  And I'd find the melee game less annoying.  8)

Alkiera

[sinij]

Staff wielding healer is almost guarantee to end up gimp if you roll it as your first character. Reason is that healers don’t get good melee stances, powers and masteries and you need to know how to work around it to end up with good template. In SB healers and mages are mostly casters, rogues are mostly melees and fighters can be just about anything. If you don’t want to specialize in casting or melee I’d suggest trying hybrid class – templar or crusader… maybe rogue ranger but it a lot more melee-centric or mage assassin that a lot more centered around casting.

Closest thing to make your template work is to roll staff druid – it can be done, I seen it work but sadly I have no experience and can only *guess* what will work with that template.

Staff druid – start human healer to get extra trains, get +10int, +10dex and human racial +dex or +5 Light Armor and lucky starting runes. Aim at ending with high dexterity, high int, no spi (-5 at start), no str (-5 at start) and bare-minimum con (80ish). You want to end up with maxed light armor, maxed staff, maxed focus and use druid focus staff.

Good luck.

[Shockeye]

We did implement keyboard movement early on but it caused a lot of bandwidth issus due to the way the PnC movement system works.  It would take a lot of ripping out of old code and reimplementing an entirely new movement system (which we have come close to doing many times).  With that said, any future products we have will definitely include WASD+.

Didn't the Asian SB spinoff try WASD?

[Nija]

Please don't, I for one HATE WASD in 3D MMOGs, save it for FPS. Reason is that for good PvP you need FREE hand for macros, so you should be able to control your character with just one hand. If you move with WASD, like WoW and rotate camera with mouse you have very little time for using powers/spells/whatnot.


On top of that WASD movment ends up centering PvP too much on range dancing - knowing your range exactly and being able to step in and out becomes a lot more important than anything else. IMO not a good model of PvP.

I really think you're the only one. How do you play your FPS games? I've not really played much in recent years, since Counterstike killed the genre, but when I played qwtf and q2ra, I used esdf + every key around there for weapon binds. I can still remember my exact keybinds for q2 actually. In most other games like UT I used the entire top row, sometimes pushing the same button several times to get different weapons and that's normal. The hotkey management in mmorpgs is a lot like fps games now.

Also, range dancing is one of the only skillful elements left in these games. I'd hate to lose that like we did being able to dodge projectiles and magic spells like in AC1.

[AcidCat]

  With that said, any future products we have will definitely include WASD+.

This is a good thing, anymore I'm not even interested in a game if it's only point/click movement, give me wasd or forget it.

[HaemishM]

Got this going at lunch. Holy shit, am I rusty. I also forgot how completely bad the snow-covered terrain is. I'm fucking snowblind. AAGGGHHHH.

I moved my old Haemish, level 52 Barbarian onto the Redemption server. Then I started a new character on Vindication, Gracchus MacLennan, who is now a level 4 human rogue. Yes, I am an unorginal tit. Vindication apparently is one of the "Fast" exp. gain servers. I couldn't move my old character there, but I could start a new one.

So Vindication it is, until my eyes bleed, the itch gets too much and I must quit.

I think I'll start a subforum. Fuck.

[Signe]

Righ and I both started characters on Vindication last night.  Mourning seems to always have a "low population" which.  Not good for a game like SB.  I haven't even smacked a spider yet, however.  I don't know that I ever will.  Running around in a circle for almost a minute was enough for one night. 

My 51 prelate is wasting away in Character Creationville.  She doesn't know what to do with her own gimpy self.

[Der Helm]

Downloading the client as I post this.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

I hate you all 

[sinij]

Also, range dancing is one of the only skillful elements left in these games

I personally prefer timing and combinations of attacks to range dancing. In my book PvP in MMOG should be about selecting best course of action out of number of available abilities and victory should be decided by timing, correctly evaluating situation and predicting and countering actions of your opponent. This type of PvP is closer to chess in concept.

As to FPS – that’s completely different type of PvP. WASD movement works there because it revolves around AIM and positioning. In FPS you usually have one type of attack at the time and it is about how well you use it as often as you can. This type of PvP is closer to soccer in concept.
Now imagine is chess players were required to run around the field chasing a ball while playing a match – it would only distract them from what they are trying to do. Same goes for WASD movements in MMOG.

Not to say that FPS-type PvP is worse, its just different and does not belong in MMOG genere.

[sinij]

So Vindication it is, until my eyes bleed, the itch gets too much and I must quit.

Make sure you understand what LORE server is before you commit to it.

[HaemishM]

I do. Faction-specific guilds and such. I like lore.

And cake.

[Signe]

So Vindication it is, until my eyes bleed, the itch gets too much and I must quit.

Make sure you understand what LORE server is before you commit to it.

Yes, Mommy.

[sinij]

I do. Faction-specific guilds and such. I like lore.

And cake.

DZZZZ. Wrong. Its about spec groups, zergs and greatly restricted options on what templates you can guild and group with. If you are liking RP (filthy prevert, god hates furries and RPs :) )  go Mourning.

[HaemishM]

sin-JI, j00 got some splainin' tado.

[sinij]

I can't link you to chronicles, I'm at work right now, but that the place to start reading if you want more details.

[HaemishM]

I take it this is what you mean. Essentially you can't group with anyone not in your factionhold type, and if you aren't guilded with a faction hold, you can't group at all.

[sinij]

Thats correct and what charter you play GREATLY restricts what characters you can use. Ultimate effect of this is that most guilds run around with Oblivion, Vampire and maybe one other charters and if you are not one of these popular charters you are SOL. It also means that people in your guild HAVE to be part of the spec group or you will plain simply won't be able to kill anyone or anything.

[Lum]

By the way, just in case you BOUGHT MY DAMN BOOK (all 3000 or so of you), there's a Shadowbane install on the DVD. I checked and there's about a 60mb or so patch from that version.

[Hoax]

You wrote a book?

Actually I meant to buy it, right after I buy a car and a 600gb external HD.