NDA is up. This board goes public.

[schild]

Keke. Ask your questions. You might get answers. You might not. I demand participation.

[Triforcer]

Keke. Ask your questions. You might get answers. You might not. I demand participation.

Does the passage I quoted in the other thread really mean that everyone has to constantly jump around like a BF2 dolphin diver monkey on meth? 

[Furiously]

If you are a shield class you can hit the shift key and block instead.

[Mesozoic]

Ask your questions.

Is it a bad sign that there's a thread up entitled "Anyone still playing?" ?

[schild]

Ask your questions.

Is it a bad sign that there's a thread up entitled "Anyone still playing?" ?

Well....here's the biggest con I have for the game.

Seems short.

[Miasma]

I remember someone thinking it would not be worth a monthly fee and someone else in the beta responding with a  , is there a monthly fee or are they doing something like guild wars?

And do you have a better idea on what the real release date is?

[schild]

Monthly fee yes. How much? Don't know. I'll take a guess and say $14.95.

According to Gamestop the box will be $50. There's a special edition in their computers.

Release date is 2/28/06.

[Venkman]

Serious question: Can comments made while under NDA be publicized after the NDA is lifted? I was under the impression they could not.

[schild]

You mean like our EQ2 forum or our CoH Forum or our Guild Wars forum which all had the same type of NDA as this DDO forum?

[Samwise]

Serious question: Can comments made while under NDA be publicized after the NDA is lifted? I was under the impression they could not.

Once the NDA is lifted, you can say whatever you want.  Including repeating thoughts that you had while the NDA was still in effect.  So it wouldn't make much sense to restrict things said while under the NDA, since you could always just say them again anyway.   At least, that's how I reckon it.

[schild]

Nay, we are but men.

ROCK.

[tazelbain]

Nay, we are but men.

ROCK.

I'll trade you a wheat and sheep for a rock.

[Hoax]

I'm still going with:

1.  This game is not worth a monthly fee, it would do much better then GuildWars has with this community if it was free though since the gameplay screams for organized short runs then logging off.  Where GW's pvp endgame (while awesome) is very time consuming as it is with all competitive pvp.

2.  This game will annoy those who do not suffer from the disease known as altitus or whatever we call it these days.  Unless there are literally SOO many newbie quests you have no hope to complete all of them, but then it will still suck.  Because most players will not want to take on an inferior xp/time grind just to see new content even if that would be more fun.  People are broken and stuff.

3.  The game doesn't look nice (in the way so many have gotten used to WoW's visuals) and it doesn't look like it is ready to release, it reminds me much more of the EQ "style" which is to say almost no style at all.  Broken group chat, attacking npc's with no response, arrows gfx sitting in mid air and invincible boxes?  mmmm beta (note: nothing has ever been fixed in a MMO beta, ever)

4.  The combat while decent systemically (wonder if that was a real word) -talking melee here-  looks stupid.  This is a mistake people like for the thing they will spend 90% of their game time doing to not look stupid.  Also without trying it myself I couldn't tell if there was any improvement over WoW's melee combat, just even faster and more mouse clicks!  Thoughts on this?

5.  I hate Mondays.

[Margalis]

I will probably right up a bunch of thoughts, but basically I agree with what you said. Compared to other MMORPG combat it's not really any better or different, it's not an action game in the same way Zelda is.

[Samwise]

Does the passage I quoted in the other thread really mean that everyone has to constantly jump around like a BF2 dolphin diver monkey on meth? 

Most people don't.

If you're a sturdy tanky fighter sort of character (with a shield and so forth), you're better off blocking with that shield than tumbling around like a monkey on meth.

Tumbling around like a monkey on meth does help you evade damage if you don't have a shield, but also makes it tough to dish it out; some people seem to have trouble just staying more or less facing their target even when they're holding still, much less timing a tumble to dodge a swing but still end up in a good spot to return the attack.  

I tend to spend a lot of time tumbling about if I'm playing as a rogue (potentially high damage output but can't take a punch very well) and I've gotten too much attention from the baddies; then I focus on tumbling about and avoiding damage while the fighters get free hits on the thing that's chasing me around.

[Shockeye]

Haemish is pretty spot-on as far as I'm concerned about DDO. You can read some of the gold here.

[Venkman]

You mean like our EQ2 forum or our CoH Forum or our Guild Wars forum which all had the same type of NDA as this DDO forum?

This is the first time I've paid attention to such a transition. Call me chronologically impaired. Samwise answered it. All I needed.

[Sunbury]

2.  This game will annoy those who do not suffer from the disease known as altitus or whatever we call it these days.  Unless there are literally SOO many newbie quests you have no hope to complete all of them, but then it will still suck.  Because most players will not want to take on an inferior xp/time grind just to see new content even if that would be more fun.  People are broken and stuff.

I believe Turbine has stated there are 130 quests at launch.   Players report you have to repeat each 3-10 times (reports vary) to hit L10, if you care about hitting L10.

[schild]

I believe Turbine has stated there are 130 quests at launch.   Players report you have to repeat each 3-10 times (reports vary) to hit L10, if you care about hitting L10.

This is not quite believeable. To min/max I can see doing a good handful of them twice, three times even - doing every single one 3-10 times to hit L10 is total exaggeration. Also quests in DDO are fully realized things. It's not like it's a fedex quest that you get from a bulletin board. When they say 130 quests, they mean 130 QUESTS.

[Sky]

Soloers, seek your enjoyment elsewhere. DDO is a game for groups.

Don't expect to be Garrett, rogues are pretty much forced into combat occasionally.

The above limited me from seeing anything cool in the game. That's pretty much all I got out of the game, and I was supposed to be testing it the longest.

[Numtini]

It would make an ok game if they weren't trying to charge a fee for what's really a non-massive game with game matching. Not that it would be perfect even then. When pay to play games showed up, they offered something that non-massive games couldn't offer. And that experienced required a large and expensive server infrastructure. DDO doesn't offer anything you couldn't get on a LAN and there's just no reason for the cost.

[schild]

It would make an ok game if they weren't trying to charge a fee for what's really a non-massive game with game matching. Not that it would be perfect even then. When pay to play games showed up, they offered something that non-massive games couldn't offer. And that experienced required a large and expensive server infrastructure. DDO doesn't offer anything you couldn't get on a LAN and there's just no reason for the cost.

Are you saying it's a glorified NWN module? Cuz I've played NWN and DDO and I wouldn't go there.

[Soln]

So.... meh?

Even if players find that out after week 2, Turbine will still recoup on initial box sales, no?   

[schild]

So.... meh?

Even if players find that out after week 2, Turbine will still recoup on initial box sales, no?   

Personally, I think this game has a lot of potential to draw DnD fans in. Personally, I'd rather play DnD, but that's mostly because I know I'll never be in a good DnD group again. But the grouping and mission structure, well, if you had 2-3 friends who you could game with 1-2 nights a week and play the quests together, it would be a pretty goddamn fun game. I know I couldn't do it if even once I had to group with some guy I didn't know. The game would ask too much of unwilling cooperation.

[Shockeye]

Give me Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk and I would be a lot more interested in this game than I am currently.

[Soln]

So.... meh?

Even if players find that out after week 2, Turbine will still recoup on initial box sales, no?   

Personally, I think this game has a lot of potential to draw DnD fans in. Personally, I'd rather play DnD, but that's mostly because I know I'll never be in a good DnD group again. But the grouping and mission structure, well, if you had 2-3 friends who you could game with 1-2 nights a week and play the quests together, it would be a pretty goddamn fun game. I know I couldn't do it if even once I had to group with some guy I didn't know. The game would ask too much of unwilling cooperation.

agree

I'll try it out for the sake of keeping up, but I'm a soloer so I doubt I'll stay.  Isn't it funny how many games rely on that dependency of "already-knowing-reliable-people-to-play-with" to reach their end game?  Somedays I just want to read a book.  I can always win at that.

Give me Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk and I would be a lot more interested in this game than I am currently.

agree

I cleaned out the storage unit this weekend and boxes on boxes of Undermountain, Shadowvale, all sorts of Faerun content was there.  I    Baldur's Gate franchise, really did. 

[Merusk]

Are you saying it's a glorified NWN module? Cuz I've played NWN and DDO and I wouldn't go there.

No, it's not a glorified NWN module, but what does it offer that NWN doesn't?  While I enjoyed the time I putzed around with it, I certainly don't think it's worth $15 a month, and I have friends I could get together on a regular basis to play. 

Then there's also that it's not going to grab your average MMO player for the reasons listed in the preview thread. No leet loot, no raid content, no 'endgame.'  Like it or not, that's what your MMO-playing RPGer wants because that's what's been standard for the last 7 years.  Any game that's going to change that will be starting small and grow large over time.

Then tack-on that, Yes, most older D&D Players prefer Greyhawk and ones slightly younger than them prefer Forgotten Realms.  How has Ebberon been catching on in the D&D community? Is it? I dunno, but it's not a world I'm interested in investigating and probably not most D&D players who aren't REALLY into D&D.   I understand WOTC's  desire to promoste it because then they don't have to pay royalties to the past 25 years of authors who still have the rights to those worlds. It's just not going to attract old players, though.

This could be a nice, niche game that can go a long time but I don't think that's what WOTC is looking for.

[schild]

This could be a nice, niche game that can go a long time but I don't think that's what WOTC is looking for.

Can't blame Turbine. They didn't shoot the moon and DDO turned out fine. If WoTC wants to challenge Blizzard in any way, it's going to involve MtG.

[Velorath]

This could be a nice, niche game that can go a long time but I don't think that's what WOTC is looking for.

Can't blame Turbine. They didn't shoot the moon and DDO turned out fine. If WoTC wants to challenge Blizzard in any way, it's going to involve MtG.

More to the point it's going to involve finding new ways to milk MtG players through micropayments.  I'd stay the fuck away from any MMO with MtG on the box simply for the fact that they'll find ways to make it so the people who spend the most money have an advantage.

[El Gallo]

I've only played 2 days, so hopefully these things will change, but add me to the Greyhawk 4 lyfe crew.  Maybe I could get into the setting if (a) the game didn't look so boring graphically (b) the most obvious new thing about the setting, warforged characters, didn't stand out as exceptionally boring graphically even against the backdrop of a graphically boring world, and (c) the most obvious new thing about the setting, warforged characters, weren't such a goddamn pain in the ass game-mechanics wise (esp the healing issue).  

I hope the dungeons get a shitload better, because at level 2 every dungeon I've seen looks like modular, randomly-thrown-together chunks of garbage left over from EQ's Lost Dungeons of Norrath expansion.  Is there anywhere that feels like Guk or Blackrock Depths?  Pls!

I'll play for a while, because I am a min-maxing whore and this game appears to be all about being a min-maxing whore (seriously, an insanely baroque skill/feat system and no respec is a level of stupidity I didn't even think Turbine had in them after watching it blow up in their faces in AC1).

When is NWN2 supposed to come out?

[Ironwood]

Um.

This game sounds ass.

Really.

[Numtini]

It would make an ok game if they weren't trying to charge a fee for what's really a non-massive game with game matching. Not that it would be perfect even then. When pay to play games showed up, they offered something that non-massive games couldn't offer. And that experienced required a large and expensive server infrastructure. DDO doesn't offer anything you couldn't get on a LAN and there's just no reason for the cost.

Are you saying it's a glorified NWN module? Cuz I've played NWN and DDO and I wouldn't go there.

No, I'm saying it's not MMP. The entire game consists of a small group in a totally private setting. You could just as easily host it on a lan or through non-fee game matching. Multiplayer, but not massively multiplayer. In fact, far fewer people on a playfield than most first person shooters.

Though honestly, it's more of what I'd expected NWN to be. I found NWN to be a major disappointment.

[Merusk]

I'll play for a while, because I am a min-maxing whore and this game appears to be all about being a min-maxing whore (seriously, an insanely baroque skill/feat system and no respec is a level of stupidity I didn't even think Turbine had in them after watching it blow up in their faces in AC1).

Well, in their defense Turbine didn't have any leeway here.  The system IS 3.5 D&D, with all of it's flaws (and glory).  Great for P&P where your DM can tweak things, or a single player game where you can say 'fuck this guy sucks' and cheat him or reroll and quickly get back to where you were.  For a MMO? Yeah, not the best system.

The art.. yeah I have a whole 3-4 paragraph rant in me about that.  Again, not something I can blame Turbine specifically for.  I'll get to it later tonight when I'm home and can compose my thoughts better.

[Llava]

But D&D has respecs.

From the Expanded Psionic's Handbook:

Psychic Reformation:
When this power is manifested, the subject canchoose to spend it smost recently gained skill points  differently (picking new skills and abandoning old ones if it chooses) and to choose  a different feat from the one it selected when advancing from its previous level to its current level. The subject can also choose to forget power it acquired when advancing to its current level, replacing them with new ones.

The subject can undo decisions of  these sorts  that were made at lower levels,  if both the subject and the manifester agree to pay the necessary XP before this  power is manifested.  This subjectmust abide by the standard rules for  selecting  skills and feats, and so it cannot take feats for which it doesn'tqualify ortake cross-class skills as class skills.

XP Cost:  This power costs 50 XP to manifest  to reformat choices made when the character reached her current level.  For each additional previous level into which the revision reaches, the power costs an additional 50 XP.  The manifest and subject  split all XP costs evenly.

Edited for brevity and so I'm not totally  violating copyright, but there it is... it's not like there's no precedent for respeccing in D&D.  How hard would it be to tweak those rules a bit to make it work in a MMOG?  Maybe there's  a psion/wizard NPC who is willing to do this task, but demands payment to make up for his own XP loss.   Maybe he's willing to perform the Reformation on you if you go obtain an extremely valuable gem from the Grand Kobold Kolossus Killificus.

[Polysorbate80]

Nay, we are but men.

ROCK.

We are not men. 

We are Devo.


I'm sure I'll buy the game, probably just to run a quest or three during the average week--my PnP group only meets once a week and that's not nearly enough for my 'fix'.  Fortunately, I like fighter and cleric types, so I won't have to suffer through the 'rogues can't solo' blues.