I'm sorry but this game is more fun that ever

[shiznitz]

Took almost a month off (new baby boy) and have come back to EQ2 recently. The game is just a lot of fun to play lately. There is no sense of grind. My 45 (dinged last night) berserker gets invites within a few minutes of /lfg on. The groups have good players in them who want to try challenging things. No one whines and /disbands when they die. My machine seems ot handle the graphcs better for some reason. Particle effects are like a fireworks show and there is no video lag at all (P4 3.4G, 1G ram, 6800GT card) with settings moderately high, although water and Qeynos can still stutter my machine. The Desert expansion is eye-droppingly gorgeous, even if I am a bit too low for it yet.

On the downside, my guildmates report that the sub-30 zones are generally deserted when they play their alts and Freeport is a ghost town.

Anyway, if you have an EQ2 character over level 30, might be worth it to give it a whirl again.

[Alkiera]

On the downside, my guildmates report that the sub-30 zones are generally deserted when they play their alts and Freeport is a ghost town.

Anyway, if you have an EQ2 character over level 30, might be worth it to give it a whirl again.

I was in for the one week 'come back' thing a few weeks ago, and can confirm that the 1-30 game is like a desert... in that there is no one there.

Apparently it's not tooo bad up to the teenish areas, as people generally group thru those levels trying to level thru them as quick as they can.  Once they get to 20, they go into splitpaw, and come out at level 50, with maybe the occasional pause to do some quests and stuff in other zones.

A friend of mine who still play is actually annoyed... she has the problem that in the 40's, even with her combat exp turned off, she can't finish all her quests before she out-levels them...  but in the low levels, you better be able to solo.  I had the most fun with my low teens predator, he kicked butt.

The other aspect of the low population...  The market/bazaar system is terrible at low levels.  There's just very, very little for sale.

Alkiera

[Strazos]

I couldn't stand the game when I went back in August or so. No quest xp HURTS. I would be killing stuff for an hour, and have no noticable change in my advancement.

[Alkiera]

I couldn't stand the game when I went back in August or so. No quest xp HURTS. I would be killing stuff for an hour, and have no noticable change in my advancement.

I didn't really have that problem... both the chars I played definately had advancement.  Admittedly, there was more when I was grouped than when solo... but that is apprently intentional.  They've made it 'possible' to solo, if you wish... but it's far from the best/fastest way to advance.

Alkiera

[Margalis]

Is the game itself very underpopulated or just the newb areas? EQ2 actually sounds like a lot of fun to me for some reason I haven't quite figured out. Maybe just because I thought WoW was really boring and EQ2 isn't WoW.

[Hartsman]

I couldn't stand the game when I went back in August or so. No quest xp HURTS. I would be killing stuff for an hour, and have no noticable change in my advancement.

Might be worth trying out again.  The new idea for quest XP is to make sure that it actually paid out well, instead of trivial amounts like before.  I believe we changed it a little later than August.  The last time I played an under-50 char it seemed like we got there.  Late-50s seems possibly a little light still -- We may go back and touch that again at some point.

- Scott

[Hartsman]

And btw - If anyone does go back, please, please remember there are quest hubs in all of the overland zones.  I'd really recommend checking them out.  They're rewarding, a lot of fun, and many who come back assume they're expected to grind out levels until someone mentions them, at least on my server.

My most recent char, I took to 55+ on a server I knew no one, centering his career around those quest series', only killing things I didn't have a quest for when I had extended playtime (rarely), and had a lot of fun with it.  I'm generally the type to prefer groups of friends, in dungeons, and trying to push the limits of what we're able to do -- just about the opposite of how I played this one.

Disclaimer:  This is a 100% biased opinion, albeit an honest one. :)

- Scott

[Flashman]

Disclaimer:  This is a 100% biased opinion, albeit an honest one. :)

- Scott

You are right, biased but honest.

I played EQ for the free month after release and to be honest, I hated it. I thought the game was solid up until you hit the mid-teens and then you just hit the brick wall. No solo content and slow, painful advancement. I re-sub'ed about 4 months ago just to check it out again and I have to say the difference from that first month is like night and day. A lot more "stuff" to do, much faster advancement, LOTS more solo/casual play.

The thing I'm most impressed with though is that its obvious you and the EQ2 team are really putting forth a big effort to make the game better and it shows.

Oh, and unlike that other SoE game  ....a combat revamp that was well thought out and bug-free. And went over well with players.

Seriously though, its much much improved over that 1st month, and well worth another go if any of you are interested.

[Numtini]

I enjoyed the game, but honestly, it just got depressing with no new players and a general feeling that everything was deserted. I always thought it was a better game that WOW, but without the enthusiasm and such, it doesn't end up as much fun.

[Signe]

I have to agree that since that big change, the game is tons better.  Adding solo content was a big deal for me, especially since I play odd times like mornings or mid-afternoons EST during the week.  I'm not currently playing but I play to go back.  Maybe Cheddar and Numtini will come with me!  I've mostly stopped playing CoH/V but I'm having a good time with a beta test at the moment.

EQ2 is a purdy game.  It's for everyone... human and furry alike... oh, eek. 

[Ezdaar]

It seems also that when they removed the need to go and get your shard after you die they also removed the majority of the experience debt. The last few times I've died I had like 0.6% debt.

[Strazos]

Just for reference, my Brigand is 28, and had constant 100% vitality while in the Enchanted Lands.

Maybe if I had the time and people to play with, but....

[jpark]

I went back a few months ago.

The game has changed a lot.  Some for the better (Mobs now break their chase rather than persisting until you zone; solo content; easier leveling; dumbed down heroic opportunities).

I need to see one of these things changed though, or it is just not enough as it stands:

1.  Class system.  It just blows right now.  Classes still lack true defining characteristics.  For those who like alts, the graded system where you eventually choose your class at level 20 is a killer.

2.  Art.  Putting aside our polygon whores, putting some art in the game would be appreciated.  Equipment might a be a good start - I see little variety.  EQ has racial armors  and I always found that added a lot to the game.  Maybe that's too tough for EQ2 devs.

3.  Character creation.  This might make a good MBA case study.  You add a million options to character customization that only someone using a sniper scope in the game would actually notice.  I will trade in the 3 moving bars to adjust eye shape for simple things like a scar, missing eye, eye patch etc.

4.  Talent trees.  Don't dance around the point - copy it and be done with it. WoW's talent tree system is thematically and mechanically vastly superior to this grocery bag approach of choosing speciall attributes/traits etc. currently in place.

Bah.

[tkinnun0]

1. In EQ1, I got to level 4 before I realized I should start grouping because I was getting better trash loot from mobs than my quest. I quit at level 4 out of I don't know how many.
2. In AC2, I got to level 22 on solo quests, before I had to start grouping. I quit at level 49 out of 50.
3. In WoW, I could have and mostly did solo on quests to level 60. I'm still playing.
Extrapolating from that:
4. In my next MMORPG, I will be able to solo all of the content, including end-game content. Grouping will still be faster.

I don't think EQ2 fits that bill.

[UD_Delt]

Advancement is definately much, much faster now. Both at the mid-levels and at the high levels.

In a good group I was able to get nearly an entire level with my 56 Swashbuckler in about 3 hours. I was using the veteran reward 26% exp bonus potions for half of that time but that is still a fairly decent rate for leveling the final couple levels. Vitality at level 55+ seems to last forever. The last 3 days in a row I've put in a good bit of time (3 hours of grouping, 5 hours of soloing, and 2 hours soloing on day 3). I started with 100% vit and at the end of day 3 still have around 30% exp. I also gained a little over 2 levels during that time. Soloing is about half again the speed of a very good group.  When saying good group I mean Tank, 2 Healers, 3 DPS, on teamspeak and all performing at max effectiveness. Pickup groups will obviously provide slower exp.

Solo, I can gain a level about every 2-3 hours with my 32 conjuror. It does somewhat depend on how many of the solo quests I have active at the time whether it is closer to 2 hours or more like 3 hours.

The biggest difference for me between EQ2 and EQ is that downtime has all but been eliminated. The only time a group has downtime is if a key player goes afk. Soloing I have at most 10 seconds of wait between mobs which really just provides anough time to pull or run to the next one.


I am still a bit ticked off about tradeskills though. They are already talking about announcing the next expansion/adventure pack and they still haven't even finished tradeskills from DoF. Not to mention they've made them way too easy now. To give you an idea I recently created a Sage and in 7 hour of /played time I'm already at level 32. Should be less than 20 hours of time to level a Sage to 60 at this point. I'm guessing any tradeskill can be maxed in 48 hours or less of play time if you just follow your vitality. It makes competing with the tradeskill bots absolutely useless any more.


Edit: Oh completely forgot the other key change they recently made. Drop rates of rares and master chests from named mobs has been cranked WAAAYYYYY up lately. This has had a couple effects in that it's easier to upgrade gear and skills making it easier to level in both groups and solo. It's also increased the number of groups willing to delve into dungeons searching for masters. There are a ton of 30-40 masters coming out of runnyeye lately and not more than 30 minutes goes by without someone forming a group in the 30-40 channel to head to RE.

[Sky]

EQ2, the game I want to like. Also the game that's most punitive to solo gameplay, no matter how much they say otherwise. Solo gameplay shouldn't mean killing generic an_orc_warrior mobs ad nauseum.  Grouping should add to the gameplay experience, not have solo detract from it.

I've tried to play EQ2 twice, once on release and once six months (or so) after, got stalled at 17th level in the mothergoddamned commonlands, bored out of my mind and never making 'necromancer', my goal in recreating my EQ character. Second time stalled at 18th level never making shadowknight in the exact same way. Yay linear gameplay.

I'm guessing any tradeskill can be maxed in 48 hours or less of play time if you just follow your vitality

That's several months of gameplay, purely working crafting, for me! Anything harsher would really kill any casual enjoyment...though really casual solo enjoyment isn't EQ2's thing anyway.

That's nice about named mobs dropping more chests, I don't think I killed one the entire time I played EQ2, since I mostly solo.

[Hartsman]

EQ2, the game I want to like. Also the game that's most punitive to solo gameplay, no matter how much they say otherwise. Solo gameplay shouldn't mean killing generic an_orc_warrior mobs ad nauseum.  Grouping should add to the gameplay experience, not have solo detract from it.

I've tried to play EQ2 twice, once on release and once six months (or so) after, got stalled at 17th level in the mothergoddamned commonlands, bored out of my mind and never making 'necromancer', my goal in recreating my EQ character. Second time stalled at 18th level never making shadowknight in the exact same way. Yay linear gameplay.

If this isn't a sign that we need to make the solo quests a hell of a lot more noticeable, I don't know what is. 

There's an entire series of quest lines from levels 1-60 that will get you levelled up and equipped well without killing a_generic_anything ad nauseum.  It's on us now to make sure it's impossible to miss.  Thanks for pointing this out as a sore spot for you. 

BTW, soon enough you'll be able to make "Necromancer" at level 1, which will hopefully help somewhat.  http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testdev&message.id=6622#M6622

- Scott

[Surlyboi]

EQ2, the game I want to like. Also the game that's most punitive to solo gameplay, no matter how much they say otherwise. Solo gameplay shouldn't mean killing generic an_orc_warrior mobs ad nauseum.  Grouping should add to the gameplay experience, not have solo detract from it.

I've tried to play EQ2 twice, once on release and once six months (or so) after, got stalled at 17th level in the mothergoddamned commonlands, bored out of my mind and never making 'necromancer', my goal in recreating my EQ character. Second time stalled at 18th level never making shadowknight in the exact same way. Yay linear gameplay.

If this isn't a sign that we need to make the solo quests a hell of a lot more noticeable, I don't know what is. 

There's an entire series of quest lines from levels 1-60 that will get you levelled up and equipped well without killing a_generic_anything ad nauseum.  It's on us now to make sure it's impossible to miss.  Thanks for pointing this out as a sore spot for you. 

BTW, soon enough you'll be able to make "Necromancer" at level 1, which will hopefully help somewhat.  http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testdev&message.id=6622#M6622

- Scott

By all means then, show us how. My ex and I both have about four characters in their mid 20s, since we barely tolerated playing with each other, I'd like to see these solo quests. I hit the forums looking, I googled a bit, nada. Make it big and bold somewhere everyone can see it, because to paraphrase Sartre, "Hell is other MMO players."

[Hartsman]

EQ2, the game I want to like. Also the game that's most punitive to solo gameplay, no matter how much they say otherwise. Solo gameplay shouldn't mean killing generic an_orc_warrior mobs ad nauseum.  Grouping should add to the gameplay experience, not have solo detract from it.

I've tried to play EQ2 twice, once on release and once six months (or so) after, got stalled at 17th level in the mothergoddamned commonlands, bored out of my mind and never making 'necromancer', my goal in recreating my EQ character. Second time stalled at 18th level never making shadowknight in the exact same way. Yay linear gameplay.

If this isn't a sign that we need to make the solo quests a hell of a lot more noticeable, I don't know what is. 

There's an entire series of quest lines from levels 1-60 that will get you levelled up and equipped well without killing a_generic_anything ad nauseum.  It's on us now to make sure it's impossible to miss.  Thanks for pointing this out as a sore spot for you. 

BTW, soon enough you'll be able to make "Necromancer" at level 1, which will hopefully help somewhat.  http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testdev&message.id=6622#M6622

- Scott

By all means then, show us how. My ex and I both have about four characters in their mid 20s, since we barely tolerated playing with each other, I'd like to see these solo quests. I hit the forums looking, I googled a bit, nada. Make it big and bold somewhere everyone can see it, because to paraphrase Sartre, "Hell is other MMO players."

For your level, depending on your alignment, head over to Nek or Steppes.. (You can do both zones' quests regardless of alignment, though later on at least one zone has separate quests for good/evil.)

In Nek, start with the group of NPCs by the Commonlands zone, or start with Bruhn K'Viir on the beach. 

In Steppes, start with Blerton Blumble right near the docks.

If you want explicit info (quest names/NPCs spoiled), you can grab it from: http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/news_archive.vm?section=Development&month=052005&id=486&direction=back

Hope that helps,

- Scott

[Blackguard]

And now for the world's most cryptic reply. I'd elaborate further, but... I can't right now. ;) (Note: Apologies if I mess anything up in this post... I've been trolling this forum for quite a while, but I just decided to register and post).

I went back a few months ago.

The game has changed a lot.  Some for the better (Mobs now break their chase rather than persisting until you zone; solo content; easier leveling; dumbed down heroic opportunities).

I need to see one of these things changed though, or it is just not enough as it stands:

1.  Class system.  It just blows right now.  Classes still lack true defining characteristics.  For those who like alts, the graded system where you eventually choose your class at level 20 is a killer.

We're working on both aspects of this. Scott, who has already replied a few times to this thread, put out a Producer's Letter today (technically, yesterday) covering the "graded system" to 20. In short, it's going away, and you will choose your "subclass" at level 1 instead of 20. http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/news_ff.vm?FeatureName=prodletter_frostfell&section=development

2.  Art.  Putting aside our polygon whores, putting some art in the game would be appreciated.  Equipment might a be a good start - I see little variety.  EQ has racial armors  and I always found that added a lot to the game.  Maybe that's too tough for EQ2 devs.

Not too tough, though we have some technical barriers that make it take quite a while. Teaser: We like the idea of new armor.

3.  Character creation.  This might make a good MBA case study.  You add a million options to character customization that only someone using a sniper scope in the game would actually notice.  I will trade in the 3 moving bars to adjust eye shape for simple things like a scar, missing eye, eye patch etc.

4.  Talent trees.  Don't dance around the point - copy it and be done with it. WoW's talent tree system is thematically and mechanically vastly superior to this grocery bag approach of choosing speciall attributes/traits etc. currently in place.

The ability to further individualize your character is not a bad thing, and it just might be something on our radar.

Bah.

[Margalis]

I have to commend you guys, it does seem that EQ2 is doing a great job of patching/adding to the game and listening to feedback.

We're working on both aspects of this. Scott, who has already replied a few times to this thread, put out a Producer's Letter today (technically, yesterday) covering the "graded system" to 20. In short, it's going away, and you will choose your "subclass" at level 1 instead of 20.

One of my problems in MMORPGSs is always that it's hard to know if the class you are playing at level 1 is going to be fun and useful at level 50. It seemed to me that the evolving classes by stages made that problem worse - now I don't even get into my real class until level 20, and then I might still not know if it is going to be useful and fun at level 50. I don't want to hit 25 and finally realize that the class I chose didn't really interest me.

Edit: That Producer's Letter was quite excellent. In fact, I think it may be the best thing of that sort I've ever read. (Game/design changes from devs) For example acknowledging that friend-farming will be a problem with PvP experience. (In large guilds it will be very hard to combat this) I love the tone of the letter - it's clear what you know and what you know you don't know, rather than bullshitting and pretending you know everything. And there are thoughtful reasons and analysis for the changes being made.

By comparison, this is what I typically expect from these sorts of things:

"You will be able to reach max level solely through PvP with our exciting PvPXP(tm) system!"

(Three months pass)

"Yeah...um...forget that!"

[schild]

Would it be too much to ask for you all to go batshit insane with the next expansion? I mean colors out the wazoo, design enemies based on crazy alien mythologies or something. Just....less brown and more fantasy. I don't know how else to say this but one of the big things that made me not go back to EQII was just how much I didn't feel like I was stepping into a different world. It was like a dark ages real world. Only...on my computer. Which is the complete opposite of WoW, where I felt it was just too fantastical. There needs to be some middle ground. And since WoW can't change, maybe there's something more exotic you all could do.

That's the biggest thing that's missing from all MMOGs for me today, immersion. EQII's game itself was pleasant enough (even though I didn't like the leveling curve or class system), but the world was just so.....generic.

[MrHat]

Hrm.

I have been jonesing for an MMO.  And at this point, I'll do anything to avoid WoW.

[SuperPopTart]

Hrm.

I have been jonesing for an MMO.  And at this point, I'll do anything to avoid WoW.

I thought you loved WoW :P

Anyway, I tried the trial of EQ 2 finally (Now that I can load it thanks to ports and a determined Haemcow.)

As a game, really isn't so bad. The only thing I cannot stand is the way you interact with an NPC. The whole click/select to interact disturbs my ability till now to simply hail them. I feel obligated to click away on said NPC until my fingers burn.

[MrHat]

I do love WoW, but I've played it out.

Friends calling me back, but there's other games I want to play.

[Hartsman]

As a game, really isn't so bad. The only thing I cannot stand is the way you interact with an NPC. The whole click/select to interact disturbs my ability till now to simply hail them. I feel obligated to click away on said NPC until my fingers burn.

I'm not much for clicking, either.  Tried pressing 'F' to take "whatever action the cursor says I'm going to do on this object/door/npc?"

Standard NPC (Attack icon) = Attack
Quest NPCs (Talk icon) = Hail
Merchant (Coins icon) = Buy/sell
Guards = Ask for directions
Doors = open/close
Resources = Harvest

[SuperPopTart]

As a game, really isn't so bad. The only thing I cannot stand is the way you interact with an NPC. The whole click/select to interact disturbs my ability till now to simply hail them. I feel obligated to click away on said NPC until my fingers burn.

I'm not much for clicking, either.  Tried pressing 'F' to take "whatever action the cursor says I'm going to do on this object/door/npc?"

Standard NPC (Attack icon) = Attack
Quest NPCs (Talk icon) = Hail
Merchant (Coins icon) = Buy/sell
Guards = Ask for directions
Doors = open/close
Resources = Harvest

Thinking about doing that requires far too much thought for my simple, feeble, female little mind. I will try it now.

[Cheddar]

Thinking about doing that requires far too much thought for my simple, feeble, female little mind. I will try it now go to the kitchen and cook some pot pie. 

One of the reasons SPT is my favorite poster around here is because she knows her role (as it pertains to a woman). 

Now if she would fix her silly blog she would get 2 more cool points.

it was a joke Haemish please do not ban me I offer mansex plz plz plz she knows I was kidding (I think) and really it was just a slight jest and oh man I am sorry forgive me please I am so so so so sorry³

[Trippy]

As a game, really isn't so bad. The only thing I cannot stand is the way you interact with an NPC. The whole click/select to interact disturbs my ability till now to simply hail them. I feel obligated to click away on said NPC until my fingers burn.

I'm not much for clicking, either.  Tried pressing 'F' to take "whatever action the cursor says I'm going to do on this object/door/npc?"

Standard NPC (Attack icon) = Attack
Quest NPCs (Talk icon) = Hail
Merchant (Coins icon) = Buy/sell
Guards = Ask for directions
Doors = open/close
Resources = Harvest

That used to be a bad idea unless you fixed it. There were NPCs standing around Antonica that looked like Quest NPCs that were in fact hostile but not aggro. I got into the habit of right clicking to initiate all conversations (if I remember the UI correctly, it's been awhile) after dying a painful death out there.

[Riley]

Would it be too much to ask for you all to go batshit insane with the next expansion? I mean colors out the wazoo, design enemies based on crazy alien mythologies or something. Just....less brown and more fantasy. I don't know how else to say this but one of the big things that made me not go back to EQII was just how much I didn't feel like I was stepping into a different world. It was like a dark ages real world. Only...on my computer. Which is the complete opposite of WoW, where I felt it was just too fantastical. There needs to be some middle ground. And since WoW can't change, maybe there's something more exotic you all could do.

That's the biggest thing that's missing from all MMOGs for me today, immersion. EQII's game itself was pleasant enough (even though I didn't like the leveling curve or class system), but the world was just so.....generic.

I agree... the EQ2 world just does not feel very immersive in comparison to WoW.  I find this difficult to explain and hugely ironic given Wow's cartoonish appearance and garish colors.  The drab colors, the meaningless Qeynos/Freeport 'war', the way the world is segmented into all these different islands, the zoning, etc - it all adds up to a world design that is lacking.

[Nebu]

I agree... the EQ2 world just does not feel very immersive in comparison to WoW.  I find this difficult to explain and hugely ironic given Wow's cartoonish appearance and garish colors.  The drab colors, the meaningless Qeynos/Freeport 'war', the way the world is segmented into all these different islands, the zoning, etc - it all adds up to a world design that is lacking.

Funny... I found the exact opposite.  The garish colors, character similarity, and cartoonish look of WoW prevented me from ever feeling like I was doing more than controlling a toon.  EQ2 had a much more immersive feel to me.  Having already been familiar with the EQ world may have helped me with that as well. 

Just goes to show... opinions vary.

[SuperPopTart]

Thinking about doing that requires far too much thought for my simple, feeble, female little mind. I will try it now go to the kitchen and cook some pot pie. 

One of the reasons SPT is my favorite poster around here is because she knows her role (as it pertains to a woman). 

Now if she would fix her silly blog she would get 2 more cool points.

it was a joke Haemish please do not ban me I offer mansex plz plz plz she knows I was kidding (I think) and really it was just a slight jest and oh man I am sorry forgive me please I am so so so so sorry³

I honestly only just saw this post.

I do know my place and quite frankly most days I am way too tired to implant my foot in the ass of who I think deserves it, around here.

Trying for that good karma, and all.

[Cheddar]

I honestly only just saw this post.

I do know my place and quite frankly most days I am way too tired to implant my foot in the ass of who I think deserves it, around here.

Trying for that good karma, and all.

teehee.   

[Soln]

my guildmates report that the sub-30 zones are generally deserted when they play their alts and Freeport is a ghost town.

Anyway, if you have an EQ2 character over level 30, might be worth it to give it a whirl again.

I read the whole thread, but regardless this is still the best quote for me.  If there's still chained-combat-mobs and empty looking zones with few scattered quest givers, like the Thundering Steppes, then I just don't understand the appeal.  I've often felt playing and reading people's experiences about EQ2 that there was a concentration by SOE on levels 0-10 and then levels x-LevelCap, and that anything in between was justifiable lighter because the grinding scale wouldn't increase until levels x-LevelCap.  In other words, getting the first few and last levels right was what was important, since more players are believed to be rushing to get to the end and will spend more time getting there.  Honestly, Long Tail or not, I just don't get that.  The perpetual problem is getting to "levelx" whenever things supposedly pick up again (what Shiznitz said about 30), but of course, "x" is a moving target to levelCap.  The sky expansion just got me on this is all.   

[Cuular]

In response to having to double click on things to get them to talk to you etc.  There is an option in their 500 pages of them to make the left click auto-double click on everything, except to to start battle.

So you can single click things, including harvest nodes, to interact with them.

Sorry I can't be more specific, but I think it's in the "mouse" section of the options.