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Author Topic: It was bound to happen: American hostage beheaded  (Read 15991 times)
HaemishM
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Reply #70 on: May 19, 2004, 09:38:02 AM

Quote from: DarkDryad
Do you think its conceivable that they like moved it in the 4 fucking months we dicked around sucking off the UN? I mean shit thats sound military planning tell the fuckers you are comming to kick them in the nuts.


Sure. However, considering that the very people who would have been in charge of said destruction have come back and said, "We lied to Saddam, we haven't had that shit since 1991." Not to mention that no stockpiles of anything worth pissing and moaning about have been found in over a year.

I think it's a pretty reasonable statement to say that there just weren't any WMD's out there. The Bush Administration believed what it wanted to believe, even in the face of contradictory evidence. Saddam did indeed have us fooled.

Now, what does it say about our administration and intelligence apparatus that a 2-turd camel jockey with delusions of grandeur was able to hoodwink our leaders into an attack that has decimated our diplomatic efforts of the last 20 years?

Dark Vengeance
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Reply #71 on: May 19, 2004, 10:09:31 AM

Quote from: HaemishM
Sure. However, considering that the very people who would have been in charge of said destruction have come back and said, "We lied to Saddam, we haven't had that shit since 1991."


So what you're saying is that Saddam was bluffing about not having WMDs, but didn't realize that he was inadvertently telling the truth, because he had been deceived by his own people?

Sounds like something out of a bad sitcom.

Quote
Elite Guard: "Saddam, the American invasion force is coming. They will overtake Baghdad in a matter of days."

Saddam: "We'll show them....prepare the VX Nerve Gas!!!!"

Elite Guard: "Um, yeah...about that...we um, don't actually have VX Nerve Gas. We didn't think it'd actually come to this, and really, nobody wanted to tell you, Uday, or Kusay....yknow, what with all the torture and murder you'd do to us and stuff."

Saddam: "So I could have let the inspectors come on in, with no worries?"

Elite Guard: "Well, we did have a few missles capable of going slightly beyond the allowable distance. But it's the damndest thing...we didn't expect them to actually invade. I'm sorry, boss."

Saddam: "It's okay....at least you came clean and told me the truth when it really mattered. You're my Elite Guard, and I forgive you."

Elite Guard: "Really? You do? Gee, thanks Saddam!"

*they embrace, after which Saddam pulls out a shotgun and blows the guard's head off*

Saddam: "Well, I guess I better get to my spider hole before those fuckers get here."

*roll credits*


Bring the noise.
Cheers............
DarkDryad
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Reply #72 on: May 19, 2004, 11:28:48 AM

Quote from: HaemishM
Quote from: DarkDryad
Do you think its conceivable that they like moved it in the 4 fucking months we dicked around sucking off the UN? I mean shit thats sound military planning tell the fuckers you are comming to kick them in the nuts.


Sure. However, considering that the very people who would have been in charge of said destruction have come back and said, "We lied to Saddam, we haven't had that shit since 1991." Not to mention that no stockpiles of anything worth pissing and moaning about have been found in over a year.

I think it's a pretty reasonable statement to say that there just weren't any WMD's out there. The Bush Administration believed what it wanted to believe, even in the face of contradictory evidence. Saddam did indeed have us fooled.

Now, what does it say about our administration and intelligence apparatus that a 2-turd camel jockey with delusions of grandeur was able to hoodwink our leaders into an attack that has decimated our diplomatic efforts of the last 20 years?


Lets see Sadams own folks say yeah we got em and he says yeah we got em in a round about way. More like come and invade and find out sill soon to be gassed westerners. Given that alone Id say it was prudent to make sure he didn't.
Lets not forget intel from our chums the Brittish that said yep hes got Nuke shit too. Now the Iraqi brownosers are saying well we told him we had them but didnt really. Sound to me like maybe someone should have told the truth. I dont see Bush as lying to us so much as opperating on faulty intellegence. I like to remember that the intellegence we had was shown to congress and they said yeah bitch slap him as well. So based on what data we had and like not acctually being there and in the absolute know on exactly what he had I'd say we made a prudent choice it just turned out that he was being lied to as well as we were.

BWL is funny tho.  It's like watching a Special Needs school take a field trip to a minefield.
WayAbvPar
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Reply #73 on: May 19, 2004, 11:37:03 AM

Quote
I think Saddam realized that short of the Islamic world uniting to fight off the invasion, his best bet to hurt Bush and the U.S. was to make sure we didn't find any WMDs.

Using them or allowing them to be found would have simply proven Bush right.


So- he allowed the US to roll into Baghdad, topple him from power, kill both of his sons, and then went on the lam, only to be captured in ignominy and shame, hiding in his 'spiderhole'. Saddam went through all this and didn't use his WMDs, just to spite Bush? And this bugfuck crazy theory is more plausible than the theory that he didn't have any WMDs to begin with, and had A) been bluffing or B) been lied to by his advisors (or even a combination of the two)?

Wow.  What color is the sky in your world?

When speaking of the MMOG industry, the glass may be half full, but it's full of urine. HaemishM

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HaemishM
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Reply #74 on: May 19, 2004, 12:21:24 PM

DV, you have the sequence just about right.

DD, Bush was operating on false intelligence, despite the fact that the CIA was telling him (or people underneath who Bush himself appointed such as Rumsfeld, Cheney) that the information was NOT CREDIBLE. Bush and his advisors willfully ignored the intelligence that did not fit their political aims. He also did not allow UN Weapons Inspectors to do their job properly. All of the inspectors were returning with information that there were no WMD, just a few missles with a longer range than they should have had.

And no matter what Bush would like to portray, NOTHING in what Saddam actually had or might have had was proof that Saddam was an IMINENT THREAT to the US or any of its neighbors. The whole reason most of the nation supported the war was the constant barrage by the Bush team saying Saddam was an iminent threat, despite all evidence to the contrary.

DarkDryad
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Reply #75 on: May 19, 2004, 12:33:29 PM

Quote from: HaemishM
DV, you have the sequence just about right.

DD, Bush was operating on false intelligence, despite the fact that the CIA was telling him (or people underneath who Bush himself appointed such as Rumsfeld, Cheney) that the information was NOT CREDIBLE. Bush and his advisors willfully ignored the intelligence that did not fit their political aims. He also did not allow UN Weapons Inspectors to do their job properly. All of the inspectors were returning with information that there were no WMD, just a few missles with a longer range than they should have had.

And no matter what Bush would like to portray, NOTHING in what Saddam actually had or might have had was proof that Saddam was an IMINENT THREAT to the US or any of its neighbors. The whole reason most of the nation supported the war was the constant barrage by the Bush team saying Saddam was an iminent threat, despite all evidence to the contrary.


Well 2 things  To the first I say err on the side of caution when dealing with this shit so if Sadam himself thought he had the stuff I'd say that test is satisfied. on the second we had this discussion before and all of the quotes provided never show Bush saing he was an immenant threat. Rummy yeah and Powell yeah but Bush never did.  Symantecs I know but hey I gotta argue bout somethin :P

BWL is funny tho.  It's like watching a Special Needs school take a field trip to a minefield.
Dark Vengeance
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Reply #76 on: May 19, 2004, 12:52:57 PM

Quote from: WayAbvPar
Wow.  What color is the sky in your world?


The jig was up the moment we invaded. He released all the prisoners in the country, and called upon other Islamic nations and groups to repel the US invasion. My thought is that he really expected this to unite the Muslim world against us in defense of Iraq.

If anything, he had to play the unfairly persecuted Muslim leader to invoke enough anger for other Muslims to come to his aid, right? Wouldn't have worked so hot if he turned right around and proved that the American case against him was just.

Yknow, not that it worked all that well anyway. No nation-states came to his aid....only terrorists and individuals who filtered in to take potshots at American soldiers.

But we're also talking about an arrogant egotistical dictator on the verge of being ousted from power...an expectation of rational thought is optimistic to say the least.

Bring the noise.
Cheers................
cevik
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Reply #77 on: May 19, 2004, 01:06:01 PM

Quote from: Dark Vengeance
But we're also talking about an arrogant egotistical dictator on the verge of being ousted from power...an expectation of rational thought is optimistic to say the least.


So we can either go with your bizarre delusional partisan theory that Saddam is hiding the weapons to get the last laugh that has absolutely no evidence to support it or we can go with the much more likely theory that there were no weapons http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/03/21/iraq.weapons/">which all evidence supports.  Now it's time for you to tell me I didn't pick your theory because I hate Bush.. go on, you have it in you..

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Righ
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Reply #78 on: May 19, 2004, 02:22:41 PM

Thre certainly used to be WMDs, after all, who sold them to Iraq?


There are known unknowns.

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DarkDryad
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Reply #79 on: May 20, 2004, 05:56:02 AM

Righ care to back up that claim? Yes we provided weapons at some time but I doubt you can show me one iota of proof saying we sold chem/bio weapons to Iraq.

BWL is funny tho.  It's like watching a Special Needs school take a field trip to a minefield.
Dark Vengeance
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Reply #80 on: May 20, 2004, 08:08:04 AM

Quote from: DarkDryad
Righ care to back up that claim? Yes we provided weapons at some time but I doubt you can show me one iota of proof saying we sold chem/bio weapons to Iraq.


Just more partisanship, really. If it's defending your party, common sense and reasonable possibilities are considered.....if it's defending the other party, incontrovertible proof must be shown. Vice versa when it comes to accusations.

It's become fairly apparent that this is the pattern emerging in political discussions here.

Bring the noise.
Cheers.............
HaemishM
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Reply #81 on: May 20, 2004, 09:00:37 AM

Ummm, who the fuck do you think provided all of Iraq's weapons in the first place? Yes, it was the good ole US of A.

Nosartur
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Reply #82 on: May 20, 2004, 09:15:42 AM

Quote from: HaemishM
Ummm, who the fuck do you think provided all of Iraq's weapons in the first place? Yes, it was the good ole US of A.


Wrong answer Iraq was a Soviet client state much more than they were an American client state. Their military is equipped with almost exclusively Soviet and Chi-com gear. T-72's, T-69's, BMP's, BTR, AK-74's, Dragonov Sniper Rifles, RPG's, MIG fighters, SCUD Missiles, Silkworms, and the list goes on and on. The Iraqi military also fought using Soviet tactics. Also most of their chemical/Bio weapons were supplied by the Soviets. I remember reading a piece after GW1 from a Soviet scientist about the symptoms of Gulf War Syndrome being similar to some of the chemical weapons that the Soviet Union had developed.
DarkDryad
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Reply #83 on: May 20, 2004, 09:18:32 AM

Quote from: Nosartur
Quote from: HaemishM
Ummm, who the fuck do you think provided all of Iraq's weapons in the first place? Yes, it was the good ole US of A.


Wrong answer Iraq was a Soviet client state much more than they were an American client state. There military is equipped with almost exclusively Soviet and Chi-com gear. T-72's, T-69's, BMP's, BTR, AK-74's, Dragonov Sniper Rifles, RPG's, MIG fighters, SCUD Missiles, Silkworms, and the list goes on and on. The Iraqi military also fought using Soviet tactics. Also most of their chemical/Bio weapons were supplied by the Soviets. I remember reading a piece after GW1 from a Soviet scientist about the symptoms of Gulf War Syndrome being similar to some of the chemical weapons that the Soviet Union had developed.


Thank and You. Yes we backed his war with Iran but Most of thier technology is boneyard style russian equipment. Hell its russian almost exclusively. And one wonders why Russia was against us going in.

BWL is funny tho.  It's like watching a Special Needs school take a field trip to a minefield.
cevik
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Reply #84 on: May 20, 2004, 09:21:01 AM

Quote from: DarkDryad
Righ care to back up that claim? Yes we provided weapons at some time but I doubt you can show me one iota of proof saying we sold chem/bio weapons to Iraq.


http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0908-08.htm">Click here.

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Paelos
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Reply #85 on: May 20, 2004, 09:27:40 AM

This phrase stuck out at me from the weapons article:

Quote
Classified US Defense Department documents also seen by the Sunday Herald show that Britain sold Iraq the drug pralidoxine, an antidote to nerve gas, in March 1992, after the end of the Gulf war. Pralidoxine can be reverse engineered to create nerve gas.


As a serious question, how does an independent Scottish newspaper get it's hands on classified American defense documents? If that is really true, that fact scares the shit out of how open we are.

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DarkDryad
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Reply #86 on: May 20, 2004, 09:39:59 AM

What Im wondering is why didnt he cite his exact sources of the information ie report numbers which btw they all have. If what he says is to be belived and is true over half of the exports listed have gone to universities and drug research companies under the auspices of antidotes.  Nice clue for you guys here... WE SENT THAT SHIT TO ANY  UNIVERSITY THAT WANTS TO MAKE ANTIDOTES. So does every other nation that has it. Thats how we get the flu vaccines before it hits here. It comes from Asia as the flue hits there first before the US. Thats how we keep fresh stocks of smallpox vaccine. You do realize smallpox is exctinct in the US excep in labs right.

The missle technology and nuclear /chem weapons plant drawings I'll have to see the actual report to belive before I acknowledge those were sent and not the product of someones either imagination or misreading.

BWL is funny tho.  It's like watching a Special Needs school take a field trip to a minefield.
Righ
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Reply #87 on: May 20, 2004, 04:28:06 PM

Quote from: Dark Vengeance
Quote from: DarkDryad
Righ care to back up that claim? Yes we provided weapons at some time but I doubt you can show me one iota of proof saying we sold chem/bio weapons to Iraq.


Just more partisanship, really. If it's defending your party, common sense and reasonable possibilities are considered.....if it's defending the other party, incontrovertible proof must be shown. Vice versa when it comes to accusations.



This story can be found in over a hundred newspapers back in 2002, but the original files were exposed back in 1998. Sadly, you've just described your own rabid partisanship, not my reasoned and well documented discourse.

Enjoy:



http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/medsearch/FocusAreas/riegle_report/report/report_index.htm

http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/medsearch/FocusAreas/riegle_report/staff_report/staff_report_index.htm

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/globalissue/usforeignpolicy/iraq1980scontent.html

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Romp
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Reply #88 on: May 20, 2004, 08:11:06 PM

most or all the stuff that was sold was technically dual-use but doesnt take much of a brain to figure out what Sadam was going to use them for and there is no question Rumsfield and the US government knew, its just that he was a 'good guy' back then (ie US ally) so they didnt really care.
Dark Vengeance
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Reply #89 on: May 20, 2004, 09:16:57 PM

And see, one side attacks the other with what they consider to be sufficient proof, and the other dismisses it as being insufficient. See how that works?

It wasn't an indictment of anyone's position on the subject, merely pointing out that the discussion surrounding Bush and Kerry is going all of NO and WHERE. That's BOTH SIDES, including myself.

Bring the noise.
Cheers.................
DarkDryad
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Reply #90 on: May 21, 2004, 06:11:12 AM

Quote from: Romp
most or all the stuff that was sold was technically dual-use but doesnt take much of a brain to figure out what Sadam was going to use them for and there is no question Rumsfield and the US government knew, its just that he was a 'good guy' back then (ie US ally) so they didnt really care.


Because crystal balls are like standard issue for high government employees and all.

BWL is funny tho.  It's like watching a Special Needs school take a field trip to a minefield.
Righ
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Reply #91 on: May 21, 2004, 06:19:48 AM

That's funny, I don't recall ever mentioning Kerry, or indeed any alternatives to the fuckwits du jour. Should he become president, and follow the examples of those who have gone before him on both sides of the bi-partisan system, you can rest assured I'll be just as happy to point out his government's crimes.

The camera adds a thousand barrels. - Steven Colbert
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Reply #92 on: May 21, 2004, 10:11:25 AM

Appenrtly they have arrested 2 people in relation to the kidnapping this thread was orignally about. 2 other's were released. From what I read in the FARK thread, these are the original kidnappers, or sold the guy off to the...allegeed murderers.

Interesting factoid: The informer who tipped the athorities off...was killed the next day.

WHAT a concidenink eh? I wounder if anyone filmed or took pics of that occuring.

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WayAbvPar
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Reply #93 on: May 27, 2004, 01:42:23 PM

Berg video faked?

I love a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy, but I would be surprised if this had any basis in truth. Kind of interesting, however.

Tinfoil hat on standby.

When speaking of the MMOG industry, the glass may be half full, but it's full of urine. HaemishM

Always wear clean underwear because you never know when a Tory Government is going to fuck you.- Ironwood

Libertarians make fun of everyone because they can't see beyond the event horizons of their own assholes Surlyboi
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