Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

[Bunk]

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=172525

The official FAQ for Oblivion is teh crap, but I managed to dig this up in the forums. Some fairly interesting stuff added, but they seem to be paying attention to keeping things fun.

For example - you can do a minigame to pick locks, or if you don't like it, just relay on rolling against your skill.

[Pococurante]

I'm starting to look forward to this one.

[Kail]

Dude's got a wierd way of writing...

Yes List
(Things that WILL be in the game)
...
Sleeping Anywhere (Sleeping will be restricted to taverns, inns and camp sights)

Huh?

That aside... I need to see a playable demo of this game before I'm going to give them any credit.  All this stuff sounds nice as window dressing, but they need to show me that they can make a game that is fun to play.  This game looks like it's still going to be way smaller and more limited than Daggerfall, and they need to convince me that giving up that freedom is a good trade in exchange for whatever Oblivion is supposed to do better (don't say graphics!).  In Morrowind, it was not.  If they have somehow turned their franchise around, then they'll have to prove it to me.  If they get the combat to work decently this time around, if they can get the travel to be more interesting, if the world feels less obviously fake, then the game could seriously rock.

Some personal gripes...

Yes List
...
Races from MW (Altmer (High Elf), Argonian, Bosmer (Wood Elf), Breton, Dunmer (Dark Elf), Imperial, Khajiit, Nord, Orc, and Redguard)

I hope that this doesn't mean that the appearance of these races is going to be the same as it was in Morrowind.  In Daggerfall, Khajiit were basically people with tails and cat ears.  In Morrowind, they were big, awkward waddling furries with tiny cat heads who talked in nonsense phrases like "What does frrrrrriend want with me?"  Guess which one I prefer.

No List
...
Banks
Capes/Cloaks
Children
Climbing
Modeled Breads/Facial Hair

Booo!
(Presumably, he means "beards")

No List
...
Combat Staves
Spears

Not that I particularly mind, but... why were these cut?  You've got a fantasy roleplaying game without staves?  Seems kind of wierd to me.

No List
...
Were-creatures (Bears, wolves)

Please tell me they're not designing an incomplete game with the intention of "filling it up" later with expansions...

[Dren]

Based on the trailer alone I'll bet my 50 bucks this is a decent game to last me for 1-2 months.

What is the goal date for publication?

[Nija]

Next month sometime, I think they want to hit the x360 launch window. I hope that means the PC version will be out at the same time, but PC gamers usually get the shaft when it comes to things like that. Cept for stuff like Farcry, I guess.

[Signe]

So far both versions seem to have the same shipping date.

[Sky]

I've got a baaad feeling about this...

[Murgos]

Voices are by Patrick Stewart, Sean Bean and Terrance Stamp.

Pretty cool.

[Miasma]

The release date has been pushed back from the last time I checked, it's now December 5th on ebgames.com.  There goes another of the 360's launch titles.

[Signe]

Charles Xavier, Boromir and Zod.  See... I know the important stuff.

Willow is still gormless, though.

[Sky]

And EQ2 had rollergirl and motherlovin' Saruman.

That really helped a lot. Oblivion's problems won't be due to graphic prowess or cool extraneous crap. Morrowind looked great at the time (shiny water, remember the heady early days of pixel shaders? That guy went on to work with Mythic iirc), but it was a struggle to find an avatar that didn't look like it had down's syndrome...and the hair...oh god. I simply couldn't bring myself to play any human race in the game.

They need style, and they need to bring back the huge random dungeons aka half the reason most people played the fucking elder scrolls. Morrowind's dungeons were some of the shittiest in any game ever, and handcrafted, even. Compared with Daggerfall's immense dungeons full of all kinds of cool stuff, like a well that you can drop down 40 dungeon levels, into the underwater regions of the dungeon. That game kicked all kinds of ass, so did Arena. MW not so much, and Bethesda has something to prove with Oblivion or they are stricken from my 'must buy' dev list. That list is getting real goddamned slim these days :(

[Nija]

They have style I think. Reposting this MOST EXCELLENT use of ragdoll.

[Sky]

That's cool technology, not style. Just ragdoll physics, I stopped being impressed by them a while ago, especially after seeing several very bad implementations (thanks, Ion Storm).

I'm referring to the way all the male human player models looked like retards with the oddest looking hair in video games to date (including EQ2's playdo hair imo). Shitty style. As I said, the graphics were great, it's what you do with the technology that determines the style factor.

And my real complaint wasn't even graphics related, really. Morrowind as a game really sucked compared to Daggerfall on several levels. I think the more high-tech these games get, the less freedom you are allowed in them. Seems that way, anyway.

[Merusk]

No, you're not wrong Sky. The more high-tech they get the more time & money is spent on developing those systems and subsystems and art assets and all that other crap that sells easily.  After all that's "up to snuff" you get to take the remaineder of your time & money and see how well you can finish-out the gameplay elements you wan.. [this paragraph has used up it's budget and been shipped.  A patch completing it may come later, if I get enough cash to do it.]

[Murgos]

The real saving grace of the Morrowind was the TES editor.  The game was good the mods, however, were fantastic.

From everything I have read the New Version of the TES editor that is shipping with Oblivion is extremely powerful and even if Oblivion sucks (Which I doubt) the new adventures, equipment and innovation that will come from the mod community over the next couple of years will make it worth the 50 bucks to buy it.

Anyway, I watched the long E3 demo that's been floating around (where that clip of the rag-doll physics came from above) and I really have trouble seeing this game sucking after watching that.  The stealth implementation looked kick ass, the graphics were amazing and the whole thing just looked really good.   Seriously, the whole NPC teamwork thing to drive the deadra back into Oblivion looked pretty damned cool to me.  Sure it's been done in Half-Life 2 and a bunch of other FPS's, but I don't recall it being done in a fantasy RPG yet and I am excited to check it out.

[Sky]

Ok, for the sake of argument, let's just talk about the game and not the graphics, physics or voice acting.

That scripting bit sounds cool. The dungeons still sound crappy, I don't think we'll ever see a return to the incredible dungeons of yore.

[Nija]

Yeah, Morrowind was a huge disappointment for me. I expected Daggerfall++, but I guess people didn't like that.

I'd park my cart next to a building, hop on top, and use a bow to kill everyone within range. Hop down, loot, next town, repeat. Morrowind could have used less shiny and more area. Not necessarily the same 8 town templates that were used over and over, 900 times, like in Daggerfall, but more than the handful that they had.

Ragdoll on the otherhand, can be a 'style' and not just technology. Ragdoll in CoV seems to add a bit to it. Ragdoll in HL2 added something else to it. Ragdoll in .... I can't think of a bad game with ragdoll at the moment, but there have been lots.

Finally, I don't want a return to the Daggerfall dungeons if that is what you meant. They sucked lots.

[Dren]

If I find time this weekend, I'm going to reinstall Daggerfall.  I just don't remember the love you guys are remembering.

[Sky]

You can never go back home. It'll suck to you now. Especially the graphics. But it was great /for its time/. Few games hold up the way they did when they were first released, because we've become used to a lot of things that are now industry standard.

Actually, I was having fun with it, but the aspect ratio and wonky way the controls were acting, I just couldn't get into it anymore.

Hmm...maybe I should reinstall it, too. But then, I don't have time to play the games I have now, heh.

[Dren]

I'm in a funk with games right now.  Nothing I have is calling to me, so I'll probably tool around in the game for a bit just for kicks.  For two weeks now, I've been reinstalling old games and playing for 30-60 minutes or trying playable demos.

I so want this game to be good.

[stray]

To tie this in with the Book thread, Morrowind is like the Robert Jordan of RPG's (though to be fair, I've never read Jordan, nor did I get very far in Morrowind  ).

Really though, I don't see why people talk about it so much. It's a piece of shit and even those who've tried sticking with it, deep inside, know it's crap too.

[Ezdaar]

From watching the video floating about it looks like they have replaced massive random dungeons with massive random forests.

[Yegolev]

Morrowind's dungeons were some of the shittiest in any game ever, and handcrafted, even. Compared with Daggerfall's immense dungeons full of all kinds of cool stuff, like a well that you can drop down 40 dungeon levels, into the underwater regions of the dungeon. That game kicked all kinds of ass, so did Arena.

Yeah, I agree, but you know Bethesda took the complaints about the random dungeons to heart when designing TESIII.  I liked the random dungeons because they could get really wild, like you said... but there were times when I was glad to have the "go to quest item" cheat.  I will play Oblivion, sure, but I don't think we will ever see the likes of Daggerfall again.

[Ironwood]

Good.


And I'm as Nostalgic as you are.

[Shockeye]

Oblivion: Elder Scrolls Delayed
360 title slips into Spring 2006.
by Jane Pinckard, 10/31/2005

It looks like Elder Scrolls: Oblivion for the Xbox 360 is delayed until the second quarter of 2006, according to Take-Two's 2005 guidance report. Elder Scrolls is being co-published by Bethesda and Take-Two.
Bummer! I was looking forward to this. Now, is the delay because the software's not ready or because Take-Two's financial reports need to be finessed a little?

No idea what this means for the PC version. Don't hold your breath, though, since I'm sure Microsoft wanted this to hit ASAP on the 360.

[schild]

Second...quarter....2006?

God, bethesda is fucking shit up left and right. By then there will be 5-6 RPGs out. Including Enchant ARM and Lost Odyssey. Screw that.

OFF MY PREORDER LIST YOU GO, SUCKA.

[Sky]

That ranks up there with your lame gripe about BF2's box, schild. OMG don't they know Super Robot Roleplay Keke Edition is due to hit then!?! The PS2 doesn't count in my world, heh.

However, I don't think I'll be buying Oblivion since it would crush my computer and there is no budget for a new pc in the next couple years. I'm probably proper fucked.

As far as the delay, I come from the "When it's done" school.

[schild]

That ranks up there with your lame gripe about BF2's box, schild. OMG don't they know Super Robot Roleplay Keke Edition is due to hit then!?! The PS2 doesn't count in my world, heh.

However, I don't think I'll be buying Oblivion since it would crush my computer and there is no budget for a new pc in the next couple years. I'm probably proper fucked.

In the next couple years it'll cost you more money to upgrade your graphics card, RAM and soundcard than it will to buy a 360 new in box with Oblivion. And seeing how there's a third person mode, I fail to see a problem in wanting to play it on the 360. But hey, if you want to be elitist about it, that's your choice. Just don't forget to remind me that you have a projector and that you can play it from the couch.

[Shockeye]

According to GameIndustry.biz, Oblivion has been delayed for the PC as well.

[HaemishM]

In the next couple years it'll cost you more money to upgrade your graphics card, RAM and soundcard than it will to buy a 360 new in box with Oblivion.

It makes me weep that this trend is holding true. Fuck you, ATI for making only 1 mainstream card for AGP, and fuck both Nvidia and ATI for making their top end cards push $500. That's some serious bullshit.

[Shockeye]

In the next couple years it'll cost you more money to upgrade your graphics card, RAM and soundcard than it will to buy a 360 new in box with Oblivion.

It makes me weep that this trend is holding true. Fuck you, ATI for making only 1 mainstream card for AGP, and fuck both Nvidia and ATI for making their top end cards push $500. That's some serious bullshit.

How much of it is bullshit? Look at the complexity of the GPU. The GPU is more complex than the CPU these days. PCs require a lot of graphical power because of the resolution things are running at. When you're outputting to a TV you can get away with much less.

[HaemishM]

But when you are outputting to an HDTV at 1080i, isn't that just about the same? If it is, or not that far from it, then charging $500 for a video card is bullshit, because somehow ATI managed to get a video GPU that could output at that resolution for under $400.

[Sky]

Outputting 1080i is outputting 540 vertical lines, as far as the gpu is concerned. 1080p will choke a horse, but they're getting close with stuff that runs with all the chrome @ 1600x1200. My gripe is along Hammy's lines, I checked over the usual suspects and came up with all PCI express crap, nothing worth upgrading to over AGP. Which means I'd be upgrading my mobo and cpu as well, which just isn't in the cards. Yay planned obsolescence.

1280x720 isn't too hard on modern cards, my 9800pro with 256DDR2 does pretty well with just about everything I've got, including BF2. It's when you start throwing in more complex gpu programming that things bog down...need more pipes. I really wouldn't think about less than 20 pipes because I'd like a card to last a few years. And I'm a graphics whore and whatnot, I love shader tech.

So despite my griping, I'll find a way to build an XTREME rig, it just won't be for another year or so due to the added cost of upgrading. Some of those nicer 64bit cpus are dern expensive, too. I don't even want to think about SLI :P

[Nija]

Considering ATI has a card that was $200 (until everyone caught on) that could be flashed to be a $400 card, computer upgrades are fine.

Only thing I'm missing is a PCI-E board and a new CPU. That's like $200 as well, so there's my Oblivion experience right now if I wanted.

Oh but wait, I don't give a shit about that shiny bloom bullshit, so I'll play it on my 6600gt and be fine.

All those "other" RPGs that'll be out will either be Japanese Borefests or more crap from Bioware. Yeah, I didn't even like Knights of the Old Republic.

[Alkiera]

I was very happy with the purchase of a mobo with both AGP(for my current card) and PCI-E for a future upgrade.  Will make the next upgrade cycle much less painful.

btw, the board I have is an ASROCK 939Dual-SATA2 link  I'm liking it.

Alkiera