DAOC - Darkness Rising Expansion

[Nebu]

If you ever require your customer to type a command to perform a non-communication related function, you need to hire a better UI team.

I'm guessing you never played any mmogs 4 years ago. 

[Valmorian]

If you ever require your customer to type a command to perform a non-communication related function, you need to hire a better UI team.

I'm guessing you never played any mmogs 4 years ago. 

Sure I did.  I also drive a car that I don't need to crank from the front to get it to start.

[Nebu]

Sure I did.  I also drive a car that I don't need to crank from the front to get it to start.

My point is that you're expecting a 2005 UI from a 2001 game.  A bit much, don't you think?

If I bought a Model A, I'd expect to crank it.  In the era it was made, that was the appropriate technology.

[tazelbain]

My point is that you're expecting a 2005 UI from a 2001 game.  A bit much, don't you think?

No, its had a couple expensions.

[Nebu]

I guess we'll just have to disagree.  I'd personally rather they work on content and balance issues than reinventing the UI.  The current system does everything I need it to do.  Is it dated? Sure.  Does the current UI keep me from being able to have fun in the game: no, not really.

Do you even play DAoC?  I'm guessing no. I just find it hard to believe that improving the UI would be a better business decision from a $$$ standpoint than adding content.  I've got to think that more people leave the game due to gameplay elements than the interface.

[Valmorian]

Sure I did.  I also drive a car that I don't need to crank from the front to get it to start.

My point is that you're expecting a 2005 UI from a 2001 game.  A bit much, don't you think?

If I bought a Model A, I'd expect to crank it.  In the era it was made, that was the appropriate technology.

What are the graphics like in DAOC these days?  They seem to be not to shabby compared to many recently released MMO's.  Not to mention how many expansion packs have come out?  Boats? A complete reworking of the frontiers?

With all that, I don't think it's too much to expect the UI be overhauled.

[Valmorian]

Do you even play DAoC?  I'm guessing no.

I used to.  I had a level 50 Hero on one of the servers (I can't even remember the server name now though).  Part of the reason I won't go back is the UI.  In fact, I'd say that quality of life issues in that particular MMO is the primary reason I won't go back. 

I just find it hard to believe that improving the UI would be a better business decision from a $$$ standpoint than adding content.  I've got to think that more people leave the game due to gameplay elements than the interface.

Why do you have to think that?  Try sitting someone down who has never played an MMO in front of DAOC and watch them flounder with the UI.  I have, and it's not pretty.  Do you know of any reasonably popular game on the computer outside of MMORPG's that require you to type in crypic commands to perform operations?  Do you ever have to create a macro to perform a basic ability in any other game?  I don't think so.

DAOC is amateurish in it's UI.  Painfully so.  And I think it hurts them FAR more than they know.

[Nebu]

Why do you have to think that? 

Being that the game is over 4 years old now, I'm guessing that any future investments will either be in duct tape to hold the sinking ship together and depositing the rest into their new project (Warhammer Online).    I'm betting that the UI will be much more streamlined on the release of their next product.  Of course, I'd be interested in seeing if they have any market research on the UI and its acceptance, but the game is already too old to attract many new players.  My assumptions is that they are just cutting their losses at this point. 

Also keep in mind that the major UI innovations in mmogs came after the 2 major expansions (SI and ToA) and that Darkness rising brought pretty small content additions.  I'll agree with you that a UI overhaul could have helped with the release of Catacombs, but I imagine that the content, class, and graphics upgrades were probably quite an investment given the small playerbase they were hoping to buy the expansion. 

I'm agree that the game could use a UI upgrade. I'm just saying that this late in the game they must have figured that it would yield a low return on investment.   

[HRose]

My point is that you're expecting a 2005 UI from a 2001 game.  A bit much, don't you think?

So why the hell even with this very last patch they introduced brand new /commands completely unsupported in the UI or through more accessible modes?

The mistakes are still going on today.

[Johny Cee]

My point is that you're expecting a 2005 UI from a 2001 game.  A bit much, don't you think?

So why the hell even with this very last patch they introduced brand new /commands completely unsupported in the UI or through more accessible modes?

The mistakes are still going on today.

They aren't mistakes.

Mythic has always been about functionality > style.  I'm no programmer,  but I'd imagine that it ties down orders of magnitude less resources to skip over fancy icons, animations, etc etc and slap in a new slash command, which the user base is familiar with and understands,  and 95% of can turn into a macro button in less than 5 seconds.

Which means development resources can hit the next trouble area.

And, to be blunt,  the player base doesn't care.  They bitch about outdated graphics/loot tables a hell of alot more than that.

I'm also a continued DAoC subscriber,  though on a month or two vacation now.  What server you on Nebu?

[Nebu]

I'm also a continued DAoC subscriber,  though on a month or two vacation now.  What server you on Nebu?

Currently playing on Alb - Gareth. Since the release of the classic servers I can't even imagine ever going back to ToA and the grind from hell.

[chinslim]

 
I'm agree that the game could use a UI upgrade. I'm just saying that this late in the game they must have figured that it would yield a low return on investment.   

Are you kidding?  A UI upgrade alone would be worth an expansion pack( doubling as a standalone complete install for new accounts).

[Johny Cee]

I'm also a continued DAoC subscriber,  though on a month or two vacation now.  What server you on Nebu?

Currently playing on Alb - Gareth. Since the release of the classic servers I can't even imagine ever going back to ToA and the grind from hell.

Next patch is going to make things really, really interesting.

I'm tempted to reroll some bg toons to take through rr4 in Leir;  and if these ToA changes go live,  will make life a helll of alot easier.

Sigh,  wish my shade and vamp weren't lvl 49.....   May have to roll up a light chanter or a bainshee and make life hell for people.

Edit:  I'm on Hib/Pel,  and been there since Feb after release.  What server cluster your old toons on Nebu?

[Nebu]

Edit:  I'm on Hib/Pel,  and been there since Feb after release.  What server cluster your old toons on Nebu?

Played Hib-Pel from realease to 3 months in (like Dec) then moved to Hib-Guin.  I have 50's on Pel, Guin, Gawaine, Lance, Andred (now gone), Nimue, Igraine, and Gareth.  I'm pretty much a server nomad.  When the rvr got dead on one server, I rerolled to a different realm/server and went at it again.  I'd say the servers I played the longest on were Nimue-Hib, Igraine-Mid, and Gareth-Alb.

If you're thinking about playing on Gareth, feel free to send me a PM here.  I'll help what little I'm able. 

[squirrel]

Sure I did.  I also drive a car that I don't need to crank from the front to get it to start.

My point is that you're expecting a 2005 UI from a 2001 game.  A bit much, don't you think?

If I bought a Model A, I'd expect to crank it.  In the era it was made, that was the appropriate technology.

What are the graphics like in DAOC these days?  They seem to be not to shabby compared to many recently released MMO's.  Not to mention how many expansion packs have come out?  Boats? A complete reworking of the frontiers?

With all that, I don't think it's too much to expect the UI be overhauled.

I'll ignore the discussion about the UI because frankly a) you're right, /commands are an outdated and arcane construct and b) it's not going to change in this game so either deal or don't.

With the darkness rising exp-pac i've noticed some significant upgrades to the visuals in the game. One of the things i'm enjoying about DAoC after WoW is the variety in classes that i encounter in the BG's. Spell effects, armour and other tell tale signs are key to me figuring out what capabilities my opponent has, as opposed to knowing which of the 8 generic classes they belong to. That said, it pales in comparison to WoW in terms of environments and atmosphere, particularly in PvE sessions. It's *still* DAoC. But it's better.

I will say that Darkness Falls and the reworked Catacomb dungeons look very good now, still in the DAoC art style but with new shiny capabilities. More importantly though on both my 50's on a ToA server and my newbies on a classic the framerate is much improved even in large siege situations. Now i have a much improved PC from the last time i played, so i expect better performance, but the graphics are significantly better and the framerate is equally improved. I'm happy about that aspect. I still think that the game has some decisions to make in terms of recapturing players - the PvP/RvR is IMO better than any of it's competitors (small caveat for the travesty that is Shadowbane - how i love thee but you broke my heart and i'll never trust you again) but i am undecided if i'll resub after my 30 days.

The Net Result though as far as i can see is that if you liked the DAoC RvR system and can stomache the thought of levelling a character to 15 to get to the 15-19 BG it's worth coming back to check out, provided you're willing to spring for Darkness Rising and the included Catacombs expansion. It has many of the problems it always did but they've been allieviated to the point that they're bearable and on Gareth at least the RvR is constant, fun and available right from level 5.

EDITS: Spllening

[Valmorian]

They aren't mistakes.

Mythic has always been about functionality > style.

A good UI is always functional.  There's a reason the world as a whole went from command line interfaces to GUI style ones.  The thing is, having /commands doesn't make your product MORE functional, it just makes it more cryptic for the masses.  It's alienating.

I'm no programmer,  but I'd imagine that it ties down orders of magnitude less resources to skip over fancy icons, animations, etc etc and slap in a new slash command, which the user base is familiar with and understands,  and 95% of can turn into a macro button in less than 5 seconds.

I have a hard time believing that having a single, simple icon for a command is orders of magnitude more difficult.  Hell, even in 2001 adding an icon to an existing application is something a single developer could do with ease.

And, to be blunt,  the player base doesn't care.  They bitch about outdated graphics/loot tables a hell of alot more than that.

To be blunt, it's impossible to tell without some real investigation.  I know that amongst every ex-DAOC player friend of mine, UI is HIGH on the list why they don't play it, and instead play games that are more professional.  A poor UI is the software equivalent to broken window theory.  If the developer cares so little about my play experience with the little things that require such a small amount of effort to improve, what does that tell me about how serious they'll take the big things?

[AOFanboi]

There's a reason the world as a whole went from command line interfaces to GUI style ones.

I take it it's the same reason people went from textbooks to comic books?

First: Icons are hardly ever intuitive. People learn them just like they learn textual commands. In WoW, do you intuitively see which leaf-icon is instant heal and which is heal over time? What aspect of the arrow in a box Windows adds to an icon says "this is a shortcut"? Icons should be simple and distinct, icons in MMORPGs are largely different blotches of color.

Second: Desktop as a metaphor only works for desk-oriented people (clerks and salarymen). People in their homes aren't desk oriented. Which is why e.g. Bob would have worked better for them. But Bob is dead and buried. The world went to GUIs because the text option disappeared.

Third: GUIs are strait-jackets. In most GUIs you cannot chain commands together to form more complex tasks out of the components. That is piece of cake in text interfaces. So they end up as less functional than text interfaces, because for every combination of three apps you need to make a distinct app - or make a script full of the text commands of the CLI.

Fourth: Don't pretend a MMOG is more than a fancy text chat client with a nice backdrop. Practically the only exception to this rule is ToonTown.

[Valmorian]

First: Icons are hardly ever intuitive. People learn them just like they learn textual commands. In WoW, do you intuitively see which leaf-icon is instant heal and which is heal over time? What aspect of the arrow in a box Windows adds to an icon says "this is a shortcut"? Icons should be simple and distinct, icons in MMORPGs are largely different blotches of color.

Not sure what this has to do with what I was saying.  The USE of icons(buttons) are far more intuitive than typing commands.  What does that icon do?  Press it and find out.  What's the text command to perform a given action?  I suppose I could try typing variations of the command until I get it right. 

Second: Desktop as a metaphor only works for desk-oriented people (clerks and salarymen). People in their homes aren't desk oriented. Which is why e.g. Bob would have worked better for them. But Bob is dead and buried. The world went to GUIs because the text option disappeared.

Nonsense.   You're going to tell me that the average person is going to be more skilled at memorizing text commands as opposed to being presented with a visual display that can be manipulated by simple actions?   

Third: GUIs are strait-jackets. In most GUIs you cannot chain commands together to form more complex tasks out of the components. That is piece of cake in text interfaces. So they end up as less functional than text interfaces, because for every combination of three apps you need to make a distinct app - or make a script full of the text commands of the CLI.

What THIS has to do with activating character abilities is beyond me.  Yes, GUI interfaces cannot always perform complex tasks as efficiently as text based ones.  Of course, since I was never talking about complex actions, I'm not sure why you even brought this point up.

[stray]

I haven't read everything here, but all I know is: I had more fun using 2 buttons on a Nintendo controller and the most minimalist UI's than I ever have had with any keyboard+mouse+mmo ui + /command combo thus far.

There shouldn't be the need for so much action done through either /commands OR icons/hotkeys. Actions should be more fluid than that, requiring a button/control combo at the most, with corresponding icons hidden from the main screen. The only thing that seems to behave this way in most mmo's is  1) Movement/WASD   or   2) Jumping/Spacebar (though some games are so crappy as to not even have jumping.....wtf).

But anyways, it's not the interface that's the real problem. It's the games. They have crappy interfaces because they are crappy games.

[Shockeye]

But anyways, it's not the interface that's the real problem. It's the games. They have crappy interfaces because they are crappy games.

You're so quick to write off all these games as crap? These games are not complete crap. Some parts are very crappy and in DAoC's case it is the /commands and the PVE.

[stray]

Now, now...

You can say a lot of things, but you can't say that I'm "quick" to write them off.

I did my time.

[HRose]

First: Icons are hardly ever intuitive. People learn them just like they learn textual commands. In WoW, do you intuitively see which leaf-icon is instant heal and which is heal over time? What aspect of the arrow in a box Windows adds to an icon says "this is a shortcut"? Icons should be simple and distinct, icons in MMORPGs are largely different blotches of color.

Icons are memory placeholders. We have now tooltips so that we can quickly relearn an association. Once the association is made you don't need anymore to work with it. You just need to remember the placeholder.

Third: GUIs are strait-jackets. In most GUIs you cannot chain commands together to form more complex tasks out of the components. That is piece of cake in text interfaces. So they end up as less functional than text interfaces, because for every combination of three apps you need to make a distinct app - or make a script full of the text commands of the CLI.

The point is that text command required you to know they exist. If you don't read the patch notes you cannot even be aware that a new command is available. The UI has both the purpose to ease the use (so that it doesn't get in the way) and organize.

Text is never organized, it must be already in your head. You aren't interacting with an object, you are executing.

Fourth: Don't pretend a MMOG is more than a fancy text chat client with a nice backdrop. Practically the only exception to this rule is ToonTown.

Right now, yes. For both technical and design limits. This is why so many players prefer the more direct experience of a FPS or other games not so much UI-heavy.

My model of a design masterpiece and something to port to the mmorpg is "God of War".

[HRose]

What THIS has to do with activating character abilities is beyond me.  Yes, GUI interfaces cannot always perform complex tasks as efficiently as text based ones.  Of course, since I was never talking about complex actions, I'm not sure why you even brought this point up.

Checkboxes and drop down menus can do that. The point is, once again, about having the possibilities organized and *visible*. So you are aware they exist and aware of their proper use.

There shouldn't be the need for so much action done through either /commands OR icons/hotkeys. Actions should be more fluid than that, requiring a button/control combo at the most, with corresponding icons hidden from the main screen. The only thing that seems to behave this way in most mmo's is  1) Movement/WASD   or   2) Jumping/Spacebar (though some games are so crappy as to not even have jumping.....wtf).

But anyways, it's not the interface that's the real problem. It's the games.

That's also true. The successful games of tomorrow will be those with as less UI as possible and where the accessibility is way improved.

You should feel immersed right in the scene you see, instead of learning symbolic interfaces (both text and iconic).

The UI is a transition. These words start as digital (text) because they are symbolic for their nature, then we transition through the analogic (iconic) because it's something we can relate to better.

And finally we'll reproduce worlds as they are, directly visual. This process will also require new controls (evolutions of Joypads, etc..).

[Johny Cee]

They aren't mistakes.

Mythic has always been about functionality > style.

A good UI is always functional.  There's a reason the world as a whole went from command line interfaces to GUI style ones.  The thing is, having /commands doesn't make your product MORE functional, it just makes it more cryptic for the masses.  It's alienating.

I'm no programmer,  but I'd imagine that it ties down orders of magnitude less resources to skip over fancy icons, animations, etc etc and slap in a new slash command, which the user base is familiar with and understands,  and 95% of can turn into a macro button in less than 5 seconds.

I have a hard time believing that having a single, simple icon for a command is orders of magnitude more difficult.  Hell, even in 2001 adding an icon to an existing application is something a single developer could do with ease.

And, to be blunt,  the player base doesn't care.  They bitch about outdated graphics/loot tables a hell of alot more than that.

To be blunt, it's impossible to tell without some real investigation.  I know that amongst every ex-DAOC player friend of mine, UI is HIGH on the list why they don't play it, and instead play games that are more professional.  A poor UI is the software equivalent to broken window theory.  If the developer cares so little about my play experience with the little things that require such a small amount of effort to improve, what does that tell me about how serious they'll take the big things?

Okay,  without getting into Sirbruce levels of nested quotations:

1. Functionality vs. style:  

Most of the used slash commands originated over the years as a "quick and easy" fix thrown into patches.  Mythic has tended to throw out new abilities/mechanics/whatever regularly and at short intervals,  instead of, say, an SWG style "real big fix" once in a while.  Decentralized game evolution.

Hrose as well as others here have noted that this has led to increasing layers of complexity over the years,  without that much unified theme or simplification.  Of course, it also meant that the whole system didn't get fucked by a wild hair the lead dev at the time had....  (Counting ToA as half a fuck up.)

Slash commands aren't really used that much,  except for the dreaded /use1 and /use2 from artifact item abilities.  And you can turn that into a button macro in about 10 seconds.  /release <location> is kind of a fucking pain.


2.  Popular player opinion on the slash commands/lack of GUI:

Yes, it's obnoxious to get used to.  People don't love it.  From playing the game and listening to /as or rvr chatter,  as well as browsing the pools of idiocy that are the popular DAoC message boards,  it isn't high on the list of complaints.

Class balance, realm balance, class balance, class balance,  graphics, gameplay issues (whatever the hot new minor bug is;  line of sight is popular),  RADAR!11!!, and CSRs are all popular targets.  Interface is mostly a new player complaint,  but behind the "I have no one to group with" complaint.


3. I agree,  an unified and updated GUI that was effective without losing any of the versatility would be great.  The problem is that you would have to adopt a system that could accomadate hundreds or thousands of options,  and sell the player base on the change.  Look at some of the questionable GUIs rpgs have implemented over the years.  

There are still people on this site that won't touch Temple of Elemental Evil because they thing the radial GUI thing is the devil,  even if it's a fun hack 'n slash style rpg.

Why devote that much effort and work in a system the player base is largely ambivalent or content with?  

[Johny Cee]

More new DAoC patch notes.  More tank fixes.  RPs for realm beneficial activites (repairing and tearing down keeps), RPs for heals and mezz/stun,  a portion of the RPs for killing a pet (i.e. necromancers).  More artifact and quest changes.

http://www.camelotherald.com/more/2274.shtml

[HRose]

More new DAoC patch notes.  More tank fixes.  RPs for realm beneficial activites (repairing and tearing down keeps), RPs for heals and mezz/stun,  a portion of the RPs for killing a pet (i.e. necromancers).  More artifact and quest changes.

http://www.camelotherald.com/more/2274.shtml

Yeah, but it's also rather hard to figure out the actual impact of these changes on the practice.

Many of the changes to the RPs are merely technical and do not add anything to the gameplay. Nor they leverage the actual warfare around keeps Vs 8vs8 ganking. So failing completely the goal, imho. ("implementing several new systems that will help to focus the players on larger RvR contributions to the realm, instead of small scale PvP")

I also don't like the "autoloot" option because I think looting is a fun mechanic and shouldn't be automatized. It just needed a better interface instead of requiring tenths of irritating mouse clicks that often aren't even registered. (my idea was here, which isn't so different from WoW)

Other changes are obscure. for example:
"- Dead players will now continue to retain and receive their realm point credit on targets until they release. This will work for solo players as well as grouped players in terms of continuing to contribute their share to the kill if a target is being attacked by another non grouped player as well."

What does it means exactly? That nothing at all changes from before or that dead players now receive full RPs even while dead?

And what are the design reasons and thoughts behind this (and the other change to the calculations)?

All the new changes to the classes look minor, despite the players are being loud.

My impression is that there's less meat than how it appears at first glance.

I'm also puzzled at this:
"- A number of petitioners have come to the Throne Room in hopes that an audience with their ruler will help address their concerns. While waiting for their petition to be heard, they may ask level 50 players to help them solve their problems or prepare for their audiences."

Level 50? So what exactly will be the reward of this task if not exp? Maybe for the CL exp?

Late edit: Also notice how the new "autoloot" feture arrives in the form of yet-another-slash-command.

As I said early on this thread the bad habit is well alive today. Even more than before.

[TheWall]

I direct this question at Lum. This is the most feedback I've ever seen from an actual Mythic employee and it got me excited to post here.

I hope you will forgive that this is just a bit off topic. I was very excited to read about the Classic servers and it got me thinking about something I heard mentioned long ago. There was speculation that DAOC was originally built with the intent that you could invade your enemies border keeps and gain access to the protected lands beyond. I was curious if any thought has gone into the possibility of having a Hard Core server where it is possible (though far from easy) for a large group to lay siege to the border keeps. The thing I enjoyed about Ultima Online and now World of Warcraft PvP is that it happens while I level. I know many people are frustrated when the two cross paths, but I know that many of my friends and I find this to be the most exciting form of play.

I know this would have been more easily accomplished with old frontiers where the enemy frontier was part of the same zone as their protected lands. I'm not sure if its possible now for an enemy realm to zone into a differen't realms home lands.

[Lum]

Note that @Lum posts will tend to cause me to clam up faster than a shell. Mainly because my role with DAOC is that of an implementor, not a designer. I can't explain why things are the way they are, just explain how they work (or don't).

I hope you will forgive that this is just a bit off topic. I was very excited to read about the Classic servers and it got me thinking about something I heard mentioned long ago. There was speculation that DAOC was originally built with the intent that you could invade your enemies border keeps and gain access to the protected lands beyond. I was curious if any thought has gone into the possibility of having a Hard Core server where it is possible (though far from easy) for a large group to lay siege to the border keeps. The thing I enjoyed about Ultima Online and now World of Warcraft PvP is that it happens while I level. I know many people are frustrated when the two cross paths, but I know that many of my friends and I find this to be the most exciting form of play.

I know this would have been more easily accomplished with old frontiers where the enemy frontier was part of the same zone as their protected lands. I'm not sure if its possible now for an enemy realm to zone into a differen't realms home lands.

When DAOC was in beta, that was in fact how the frontiers worked, and if you managed to power your way past the frontier keeps, you could lay waste to the newbie zones. This was changed before the game shipped, because, honestly, it's not that fun for the new player to be ganked by someone he has no hope of fighting back against.

We've taken polls several times recently, and "Home Invasion" servers (such as you describe) never rank that highly on the results.  We do have an open PVP server where you can be killed repeatedly while levelling, though, if that's what you're looking for.

[TheWall]

Thanks for the feedback. I've played the PvP servers, and they were pretty fun. But the siege warfare is what I really enjoyed for RvR and I figured "Home Invasion" would give people the incentive to participate in the siege part of the game more regularly.  :-D

Oh well, I will face the rest of my meager existance with this shattered dream.

[HRose]

Home invasion servers wouldn't work right now in DAoC for two reasons:
1- There aren't packaged shared zones as in WoW where all factions go around a set level range. So the invasion would be mostly about griefing and distrupting gameplay as Lum pointed.
2- The great majority of PvE now happens in closed instances, so no point about roaming around an empty world.

The only possibility would be about opening high level zones and share them. I think there's something vaguely similar in ToA.

But then I just wish they could make DF relevant again. Because even after the recent overhaul I still see noone going in there.

One of the biggest problems in DAoC right now is the itemization. But it's not something simple to figure out as there are other parts giving problems (crafters, PvE and PvP all clashing together for opposite needs).

[eldaec]

Point of order regarding slash commands in daoc.

You don't need a single one to play the core fighting and looting game. Ever.

The only things I can remember that weren't on buttons when I left were things like guild management, repairs, certain navigational tech, animated emotes, some keep management commands etc. This isn't stuff you will be doing until you know your way around.


As for home invasion servers, the lack of chokepoints to fall back to inside a realm combined with the positioning of the newbie zones right by the frontier gates make them a silly idea. At least in current daoc.

If, for example, someone were to make another fantasy based RvR game, perhaps based on a popular tabletop gaming franchise, it wouldn't be totally crazy for them to put the high level hunting/leveling/raiding zone next to the frontier gate, and then design the game for realm invasions at least into that high level area.

[Nebu]

If, for example, someone were to make another fantasy based RvR game, perhaps based on a popular tabletop gaming franchise, it wouldn't be totally crazy for them to put the high level hunting/leveling/raiding zone next to the frontier gate, and then design the game for realm invasions at least into that high level area.

You mean kind of like how Darkness Falls used to be?  PoC has some elements of this as well as the ML 10 area.  All are PvP contestible zones.  They just don't have any real ingame significance and drop loot that isn't necessisarily the best in game.  All the home invasion idea brings to the table is the ability for high level characters to run around and gank gray newbies.  Considering the current issues with realm balance, a home invasion server would just be a nightmare scenario for those servers/clusters where one realm already dominates.

[HRose]

Point of order regarding slash commands in daoc.

You don't need a single one to play the core fighting and looting game. Ever.

/disembark /use /use2 /release /stick /face are just a few.

Plus the new looting commands they added with this patch.

[Nebu]

Point of order regarding slash commands in daoc.

You don't need a single one to play the core fighting and looting game. Ever.

/disembark /use /use2 /release /stick /face are just a few.

Plus the new looting commands they added with this patch.

All of the commands you have given are easily keybound or affixed to a macro that may be executed by a single button/key. If I wanted to, I could play DAoC with only the arrow keys and the push of hotkeys or buttons.  I will agree that the learning curve is steeper than current mmogs, but this does not mean that these options don't exist.  There are also a number of very good player-made UI's that make in-game functions much more user friendly.

[Johny Cee]

Point of order regarding slash commands in daoc.

You don't need a single one to play the core fighting and looting game. Ever.

/disembark /use /use2 /release /stick /face are just a few.

Plus the new looting commands they added with this patch.

As Nebu stated.

/release is the only command you NEED for the day to day game.  /stick and /use make things easier,  and are default bound to keyboard so you never need to type them.  You can change your keyboard setup either through the options menu,  or in game by using /keyboard.

/disembark.....   I thought that was only used on the ships to enemy frontiers,  or have they changed that?

Obviously,  it's nice to have dual functionality.  Like, to disband from a group,  you can either go to the group window or type /disband.  The aforementioned options menu or /keyboard is another good example. 

Again,  my concern would be implementing a UI that is more intuitive and less immersion breaking than a series of nested popup windows.

I fucking hate popup menus in MMOs.