DAOC - Darkness Rising Expansion

[Nebu]

A few observations from someone that plays DAoC almost nightly:

1. There are many incentives now in game to encourage RvR.  a) titles, b) RA's, c) Capturing relics, d) Capturing an enemy Guild banners to hang on your house wall, e) Champion experience with the new expansion.  The sad truth is that the primary motivator in game is still rp farming.  With rp's come abilities and power.  Players with the most rp's stand the best chance in combat and are the most desired by groups.  The players that consistently top the weekly rp charts are those interested in doing nothing more than farming more rp's to pwn_with_impunity. The artificially created motivators listed are a nice carrot for some players, but rp's are still the rvr god.  I think you could eliminate all other rewards and people would still find their fun in chasing rp's.  This game caters to the achiever mentality.

2. While I agree with HRose about the underdog being fun part, most people can't and don't appreciate it.  On the Gareth server, Hibernia currently holds all 6 relics (a 20% advantage to both magic and melee).  This gives their realm a sizeable advantage and has the effect of bringing a larger percentage of the playerbase out to RvR nightly.  The result is that the other two realms will mount an offensive to get their relics back and get crushed by not only superior firepower, but the now superior numbers.  Keep in mind that the populations in the three realms are roughly equal on this server.  Having this 20% advantage is what brings the players out to RvR in greater percentages. Second, If you play in one of the other two realms, you see an interesting phenomenon: most people will rapidly lose interest if they lose.  I've been monitoring the RvR population in my realm over the past week with no relics and find that after Hibernia wipes the opposing realm's force during an assault, a large number will either quit or retire to more PvE.  I have a blast playing underpowered classes in underdog realms and overcoming the odds.  The truth is that most people rapidly give up when they don't win a majority of conflicts.  People seem to only enjoy RvR when they're winning.  With all of the cheat/spoiler/exploit sites out there this really comes as no surprise.  I'm guessing this is just a maturity issue.  Most still fail to recognize that the fun is in the challenge, not in the victory. I'm still amazed by the number of people that will quit after being beaten once or twice. 

In my opinion, the elements where DAoC is lacking have little to do with a persistent world.  Here's a summary:

1) Either make the PvE grind to 50 fun or eliminate it. People that enjoy PvE are playing CoH or WoW. Stop punishing the people that flock to DAoC for the PvP. I'll grind a toon to 50 because I enjoy the rvr enough to stomach it.  It's a pointless grind, particlarly for those that have done it a few times.

2) Balance the realms. Easier said than done considering all of the new classes in game.  I think the player base has outsmarted the developers on the use of classes in ways that they hadn't imagined.  There are some severe inequities in the way that abilities are spread.  Can this be done without homogenizing the game?  I'm not sure.

3) Remove AE cc and non-melee stun from the game. Stun is the bane of my existence. It's not FUN standing around being unable to act when purge is down.

4) Fix lag exploits and LoS issues.  I've been killed numerous times by players that couldn't even see me by casting through walls or lag casting pbae spells.  I could forgive this more easily were the game not 4+ years old.

5) Remove insta cast spells.  There's no trade off here nor is their skill involved. 

Hell, this list could get long... I know at least another 20 points I'd touch on.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of fun playing this game... even after 4 years.  I just see so much untapped potential that it makes me want more.  I realize that the bottom line is that it's a product.  The changes I'd like to see are potentially not worth the resources to approach. 

[HRose]

1. There are many incentives now in game to encourage RvR.  a) titles, b) RA's, c) Capturing relics, d) Capturing an enemy Guild banners to hang on your house wall, e) Champion experience with the new expansion.  The sad truth is that the primary motivator in game is still rp farming.  With rp's come abilities and power.  Players with the most rp's stand the best chance in combat and are the most desired by groups.  The players that consistently top the weekly rp charts are those interested in doing nothing more than farming more rp's to pwn_with_impunity. The artificially created motivators listed are a nice carrot for some players, but rp's are still the rvr god.  I think you could eliminate all other rewards and people would still find their fun in chasing rp's.  This game caters to the achiever mentality.

As written just everywhere the problem isn't in the greed of RPs. Nor to give RvR more incentives.

The problem is that the best pattern to farm RPs is nowhere what the game should promote and valorize: RvR warfare instead of 8vs8 repetitive skirmish.

Not so different than the other long post about the PvE problems I wrote in the other page. Again a problem of the game never showing and valorizing the best it has to offer, instead actively dumbing down and choking the potential that is already there.

2. While I agree with HRose about the underdog being fun part, most people can't and don't appreciate it.  On the Gareth server, Hibernia currently holds all 6 relics (a 20% advantage to both magic and melee).  This gives their realm a sizeable advantage and has the effect of bringing a larger percentage of the playerbase out to RvR nightly.  The result is that the other two realms will mount an offensive to get their relics back and get crushed by not only superior firepower, but the now superior numbers.  Keep in mind that the populations in the three realms are roughly equal on this server.  Having this 20% advantage is what brings the players out to RvR in greater percentages. Second, If you play in one of the other two realms, you see an interesting phenomenon: most people will rapidly lose interest if they lose.  I've been monitoring the RvR population in my realm over the past week with no relics and find that after Hibernia wipes the opposing realm's force during an assault, a large number will either quit or retire to more PvE.  I have a blast playing underpowered classes in underdog realms and overcoming the odds.  The truth is that most people rapidly give up when they don't win a majority of conflicts.  People seem to only enjoy RvR when they're winning.  With all of the cheat/spoiler/exploit sites out there this really comes as no surprise.  I'm guessing this is just a maturity issue.  Most still fail to recognize that the fun is in the challenge, not in the victory. I'm still amazed by the number of people that will quit after being beaten once or twice.

And again this is totally NOT my point. The current behaviour of the players is the consequence of the current rules.

I criticized those rules. Only when they change we can expect that being the underdog will be fun. Not before. You cannot push the cart ahead of the horses.

[Evil Elvis]

PvP servers traditionally have far fewer users. WoW breaks this mold, and I'm not sure anyone (especially including me) really understands why at this point.

We could go on about how most people like to play against human opponents, and conversly, how most mmorpgs failed at making this fun.  I'd guess you know that.  I assume you're refering to the differences between WoW and DAoC.

1) Better class balance
2) Ability to be competative without a huge pve grind
3) Accessablity to new players in all things, including pvp
4) WoW had brand-name appeal

WoW's pvp has burned me out, though.  I can see mudflation on the horizon, and 40-man raids can eat my ass, so I'm not too sad to be leaving.  Now, someone make a mmorpg with twitch/physics based pvp in an open skill-tree class system that's not heavily item dependant, and you'll have my worship.

[Nebu]

And again this is totally NOT my point. The current behaviour of the players is the consequence of the current rules.

I criticized those rules. Only when they change we can expect that being the underdog will be fun. Not before. You cannot push the cart ahead of the horses.

Well, if that wasn't your point then we'll have to agree to disagree.  My premise is that in this day and age most people play for the victory rather than the challenge.  Why do you think they are always looking for a shortcut to get them victory.

Games are made to entertain.  I fear that you're looking for more than that much like literary scholars search for unintended meaning in books.  Sometimes the story is just the story.

[HRose]

Well, if that wasn't your point then we'll have to agree to disagree.  My premise is that in this day and age most people play for the victory rather than the challenge.  Why do you think they are always looking for a shortcut to get them victory.

Because the game is about victory. You can even design games where you win only by deliberately losing. And the players will lose.

The players just see past the curtain and see what THE DESIGN is really about. If the design is about farming RPs, that's what the players will do in the most efficient way.

If you then provide fun and rewarding patterns that trigger when the realm is under attack and at a disadvantge, the players will use them and the unbalance will be less of an issue.

[eldaec]

But in all seriousness, yeah relics are a big deal blahblah but it is just CTF where nobody keeps score.

Um. Do you think relics reset automatically? (Honestly curious) I'd think they qualify as "keeping score" (as do realm ranks, and any number of other of ways we, uh, keep score) but that may be just my crack talking.

You say you want "player conflict that influences the gameworld." So, player conflict making your entire side 1/3 more powerful isn't good enough for you. What is? Again, honestly curious. I mean, most of the things I've seen bandied about really just wouldn't work in practice. "Make it so we can have deformable landscape and effect the terrain when we fight!" (2 weeks later when the entire game world is a barren moonscape) "uh can we have it back plz"

The biggest problem with the score keeping aspects in daoc is that while the effect of a relic shift is big, there aren't enough objectives to fight over to make progress seem meaningful. Relic raids are still really one time events that are compelely overidden by the next one time event. Ideally in RvR I'd want a process by which casual level small groups can work toward realm level objectives by completing minor group level sub objectives in casual play sessions. As it stands in a typical play session you cannot contribute to the inter-realm 'score' in any meaningful way. Towers/keeps don't help us becuase the act of taking a tower or keep is what causes your opponents to act to retake it, and once a tower or keep is retaken it as if you had never taken it in the first place.

One way this could be improved might be if a realm has to accumulate a certain number of hours ownership of keeps in order to unlock relic gates (or to unlock something in PvE land) with accumulated hours remaining on the realm 'score' after a keep is retaken (rather than basing relic defences and DF solely on current state of keeps). This way the contribution made by taking a keep persists in the game for a longer period and can never be completely undone by an enemy uber guild immeadiately after you achieve something.

I appreciate the frontiers did improve things in this respect by making keeps a bigger deal. And there may well be other things in game by now that do more of this sort of thing.

[HRose]

The biggest problem with the score keeping aspects in daoc is that while the effect of a relic shift is big, there aren't enough objectives to fight over to make progress seem meaningful. Relic raids are still really one time events that are compelely overidden by the next one time event. Ideally in RvR I'd want a process by which casual level small groups can work toward realm level objectives by completing minor group level sub objectives in casual play sessions. As it stands in a typical play session you cannot contribute to the inter-realm 'score' in any meaningful way. Towers/keeps don't help us becuase the act of taking a tower or keep is what causes your opponents to act to retake it, and once a tower or keep is retaken it as if you had never taken it in the first place.

They added realm-wide tasks exactly with this purpose. But they are completely ignored by the players.

Probably because the reward is nowhere worth it like every other RvR incentive they added.

[AlteredOne]

They added realm-wide tasks exactly with this purpose. But they are completely ignored by the players.

Probably because the reward is nowhere worth it like every other RvR incentive they added.

I was excited about those tasks, until I tried them.  I had pictured the tasks serving to send realms into collision...  For example, if I am told to take an enemy keep, I would like to see an enemy given the corresponding task to defend that keep.  Or the taskmaster could systematically send the next 50 task-takers of opposing realms to explore the same area.  Much merriment would ensue.

Instead what we got was a random task generator, sending me to deserted areas.  On top of that, the "exploration" missions sent me to areas with names not found on any map other than one pay-to-download PDF map.  The travel times were huge, and the rewards were trivial.

If such a task system were more focused and had better rewards, I predict it would be hugely popular and would help players find good spontaneous open-field battles.

Finally regarding RP-farming being the ultimate catass grind of DAOC... I agree somewhat, but there are some offsetting factors.  I like the sliding scale, where it becomes enormously difficult to gain Realm levels past level 7 or so.  I found that the first 5 realm levels were fairly easy to achieve casually, and the realm abilities gained were enough to make a player fairly competitive.  The true catasses could indeed be more uber by playing 24-7, but I did not find the difference between a RR10 and a RR7 player to be overwhelming.  The true dominance was achieved through systematic teamwork, voice chat, and (often unfortunately) by radar programs.  Sadly those radar programs still keep chugging along, despite Mythic's periodic bannings of radar users.

[Valmorian]

To say that making everyone on your side 1/3 more powerful isn't meaningful enough makes me wonder what you would consider meaningful short of pitching a planet into the sun.

I think you are confusing powerful with meaningful.  I think meaningful would have to have both a game effect AND at least some level of acknowledgement in game that is a persistent reminder/alters the game in some way.  So my foozle-wacking ability went up 1/3?  That's great, I'm still wacking foozles exactly like I was before, using exactly the same methods, gathering exactly the same elements.. etc..

Darkness Falls was a good idea, that gave people something to work towards, but how about less conflict ridden changes?  What if the environment changed cosmetically and the creatures you fought altered based upon how many relics you had?  Meaningful is different to different people, but I think you'll find that for many playing the game "larger damage numbers" won't count.

[AlteredOne]

Meaningful is different to different people, but I think you'll find that for many playing the game "larger damage numbers" won't count.

Great point.  Indeed I remember many times having to explain to casual/PvE players that we had a realm bonus from our relics.  They had been happily whacking foozles without even noticing they had a new bonus.  In my experience, those types of players have largely migrated to other games, and the remaining DAOC population is heavily weighted toward the min-maxers who care whether they have a 3% faster swing speed from their latest Augmented Quickness RA level 3, or whether they get a 20% melee damage boost from relics.

Such players may make a long-term customer base, but they do not make a WoW-style mega-hit.

[HRose]

I was excited about those tasks, until I tried them.  I had pictured the tasks serving to send realms into collision...  For example, if I am told to take an enemy keep, I would like to see an enemy given the corresponding task to defend that keep.  Or the taskmaster could systematically send the next 50 task-takers of opposing realms to explore the same area.  Much merriment would ensue.

Yeah, I always supported a mission system working like a matchmaking service for RvR, maybe also "leading" the overall action.

There must be something behind the screnes why they just decided to glide on those missions and why now they offer little to no reward.

[Lum]

Yeah, I always supported a mission system working like a matchmaking service for RvR, maybe also "leading" the overall action.

That's actually the way it's SUPPOSED to work. So if it's not working that way, something's broken.  :-D

(technically, you're supposed to get mission locations spawned at the periphery of 'flames' areas.)

[Typhon]

That's actually the way it's SUPPOSED to work. So if it's not working that way, something's broken.  :-D

dammit! you're the dev! if you admit it's broken, you can never site it as an enhancement later when you fix it.  sheesh, I don't know anything and I know that.

[HRose]

Yeah, I always supported a mission system working like a matchmaking service for RvR, maybe also "leading" the overall action.

That's actually the way it's SUPPOSED to work. So if it's not working that way, something's broken.  :-D

(technically, you're supposed to get mission locations spawned at the periphery of 'flames' areas.)

I don't have a very good experience about this, probably also because other players don't care about it that much. In general everyone just takes a guard mission or a general kill "x" enemies.

The idea about the matchmaking would work in a different way, even if it wouldn't be too easy. Besically you give to two groups in different realms the same mission, and only one of the two groups will be able to get the reward.

An example could be the one AlteredOne made, you give a Hibernia group the mission to take a precise tower in "x" time and the "Albion" group to defend that keep. The reward will go only to the group who wins. Or maybe you can give both Hibernia and Midgard the same mission about conquering the same tower and the first who does it gets the reward.

The point is about having colliding goals so that the conflict is preserved. If the current mission system was giving out very good rewards you would have all three realms trying to AVOID each other so that they can maximize the points from missions. This is a sign of a flawed system. Instead if you need to "win" the mission and have a goal that is already competitive you'll see the realms actually fighting for their reward.

But then if I was responsible for ther game I'd probably put its resources somewhere else (I'd still try to create a battle system that could give some organization to the large battles, like skills available to commanders that do not affect in any way the 8vs8 but that could make the larger battles and sieges more organized and meaningful instead of just a zerg rush).

[Llava]

Hey, did those escort missions in the old frontier ever get fixed?  Attacking worked fine, but defense gave no reward.  Does that work now, or did it just poof with New Frontiers?  Is it on the classic servers?  Is it still broken there?

[Lum]

They've been replaced with new mission types.

[HRose]

The idea about the matchmaking would work in a different way, even if it wouldn't be too easy. Besically you give to two groups in different realms the same mission, and only one of the two groups will be able to get the reward.

I was just thinking that this would work like WoW's battlegrounds, which are in fact a matchmaking service. The difference is that in DAoC this would work on a persistent environment instead of an isolated one.

Just an observation out of the blue.

P.S.
And notice that it would be a WoW's BG without the suck:
1- You still don't see the names of the players in the group in the other realm. So you won't be able to choose your fight against an easy group like it constantly happens in WoW (players leaving en masse if the other side is an organized PvP guild).
2- You won't compete with your own allies in the honor calculations, nor you are competing over time like in a race. So with an actual interest in the conflict and not in trying to avoid it for optimized "arranged matches".

[HRose]

Not really trying to ressurrect a thread that has been derailed in every direction, but the last patch that is going live in December is way, way, way more interesting than the fluff that was in Darkness Rising and that originated this thread. It's not as crazy as what is happening to SWG and not as significant as the development in Eve-Online, but at least they are trying and I (mostly) like what I'm seeing.

The patch is branded "Realm vs Realm and Class focus" and should focus on some significant (I hope) changes to the classes (tanks in particular) and larger RvR, but for now the first piece we got on test is a rather HUGE and further nerf to ToA:

- The locked versions of all artifacts will no longer drop from encounters. Players will now only need to have encounter credit and the scrolls to receive the unlocked artifact.

- The location requirements for leveling artifacts have been removed. All artifacts now earn experience from all enemy player and/or monster kills anywhere and anytime.

- Many artifacts now level at a faster rate.

- The drop rates for all scrolls have been increased and the rate is the same for scroll one, two, and three for each artifact.

- Artifact encounters that spawned less than twice a day have had their spawn frequency increased.

There's more to it, in particular generous nerfs to many encounters. This seems to effectively solve most of the complains about ToA (have - have not) but we are left with the other critical flaws of the standard servers: buffbots, damage scale out of the roof and clumsy interface to trigger the powerful effects bound to the artifacts (drop out of combat, right click on icon, left click on macro, reenter combat). So they removed most of the accessibility barriers of ToA but we still have the negative impact of its other parts.

About the rest we have only hints through a letter from the producer:

Heavy Tank Enhancements:  We are looking at a variety of improvements to make heavy tanks more fun and interesting to play. Our goal is to reinvigorate tanks to enable them to perform better in their role of taking damage, safeguarding their realmmates and leading the charge into battle.

RvR Enhancements:  We are implementing several new systems that will help to focus the players on larger RvR contributions to the realm, instead of small scale PvP. We already have a large number of rewards for PvP but your feedback has indicated that you want to see more rewards for other RvR activities. Activities such as siege engine destruction, and repairing walls and doors, are being looked at for Realm Point rewards (as well as many other activities).

The process for class enhancements will definitely take several patch cycles, and serious testing and revision. We have some very interesting things planned for upcoming versions and think that you will be excited about all of them. We will keep looking at all classes as we move forward to better enhance their gameplay value and fun.  We are currently gathering more feedback and will be taking more polls in the near future.  This feedback will help to guide us for future versions in the upcoming year.

Everything from our polls is important to us, and we appreciate your assistance in helping us to determine the priorities. We will of course continue to make other improvements and bug fixes to the entire game as we move forward. Thanks again!

Which is all good, I just would like to see some significant enhancements, features or systems that don't come just as a bonus, timesink, timeout or a mix of all these... Something that even a brand new player could see without reading the patch notes and feel motivated to play.

I'm not really sure if I like this Jeff Hickman or not, but at least he seems driven by consensus (which is again both a good and bad thing).

I blame and praise in (nearly) equal quantities.

Tomorrow we should be served the second part that should be more "on topic" with the title. I'm curious to see what they are planning.

[HRose]

Changes to the tanks have landed:

Armsman, Warrior & Hero Changes

Heavy tanks are considered the defensive juggernaughts of the realm they fight for, and as such, will be getting added abilities and improvements to their classes.

Note: These abilities are currently only available on newly created characters. All of these will be available on previously created characters in the near future. Functionality of some spells are not yet finalized and will be adjusted accordingly. Please feel free to include any feedback you have in a bug report while testing these abilities on Pendragon.

 BattleCries - This is a new system that provides burst defensive bonuses to self and group for Heavy Tanks.

 - Level 5 Shout - Taunting Shout: Frontal cone taunt that causes mobs to turn and fight the tank or at least increase the hate amount towards the tank. Re-usable every 60 seconds

 - Level 30 Shout - Bolstering Roar: PBAE 250 radius attack that breaks root, breakable snares and mesmerization effects on group members. If the tank is CC'd (other than root) they will have to purge themselves or wait for CC to wear off, then fire this. Re-usable every 10 minutes.

 - Level 40 Shout - Rampage: Group shout which increases the chance to resist debuffs by 35%. Lasts for 10 seconds. Re-usable every 5 minutes.

 - Level 50 Shout - Fury: Self only shout which gives a 50% chance to deflect crowd control spells (similar to the RR5 Bonedancer ability), and increases resists to magic spells by 50% for 10 seconds. Re-usable every 15 minutes.

 - Level 15 Spell/Ability - Metal Guard: Group buff which increases the ABS of group members by 3% excluding the caster of the buff. If there are multiple casters of this buff within the group, then this will stack up to a maximum of 9%. Other players can receive the benefit of this buff, but the caster of this buff cannot so it is possible for another heavy tank to have a bonus to his ABS if another heavy tank joins the group and casts this buff. Duration 20 minutes.

 - Level 35 Spell/Ability - Climbing Spikes: Self castable buff which lasts for 30 seconds that grants Climb Walls. The player will have the ability to climb walls for a short duration of time. While climbing a wall, any hit that does more than 31 damage will knock the player off the wall. Furthermore, any hit which knocks the player off the wall will hit for double damage. If the buff runs out while the player is on the wall and he/she does not reach an area where they can walk again, they will be knocked off the wall. Re-useable every 60 seconds. (Note: Currently this spell does not have an icon which makes it unable to be used. This will be addressed in a future version of Pendragon.)


Passive benefits

 - Upon choosing the path of a Hero, Armsman or Warrior, the player will be granted 50% siege resistance automatically. This includes all siege damage types including Boiling Oil.

 - Upon reaching level 41, the Hero, Armsman or Warrior will begin to gain more hitpoints as they progress towards level 50. At each level beyond 41 they gain 1% extra Hit points per level. At level 50, they will have the full 10% benefit.

 - Upon reaching level 41, the Hero, Armsman or Warrior will begin to gain more magic resistance (spell damage reduction only) as they progress towards level 50. At each level beyond 41 they gain 2%-3% extra resistance per level. At level 50, they will have the full 15% benefit.

[HaemishM]

About the only one I see really being worth a damn is the level 30 shout, except that it can't be used when the character is CC'ed.

[Shockeye]

Level 50 shout isn't terrible.

[HRose]

About the only one I see really being worth a damn is the level 30 shout, except that it can't be used when the character is CC'ed.

The higher resists and hitpoints are good (along with climb walls and resist to boiling oil for sieges). In 8vs8 Fury+Bolstering Roar can be good. Going past that would be too much with the current mechanics.

[HaemishM]

The Climb Walls is a bit of a fun change, though I'm not really sure how useful it's going to be without some kind of stealth. Were it me, I might have given the tanks some kind of a charge ability, an AE snare/root effect that worked like a bard song (and called it Grapple) so they could slow down or stop the folks trying to run past them towards the crunchy casters, or a kind of shield wall effect that allowed for an AOE arrow block in a short radius around them (for board and blade type warriors).

[Lum]

The Climb Walls is a bit of a fun change, though I'm not really sure how useful it's going to be without some kind of stealth. Were it me, I might have given the tanks some kind of a charge ability, an AE snare/root effect that worked like a bard song (and called it Grapple) so they could slow down or stop the folks trying to run past them towards the crunchy casters, or a kind of shield wall effect that allowed for an AOE arrow block in a short radius around them (for board and blade type warriors).

Charge   Active   Grants unbreakable speed 3 for 15 second duration. Grants immunity to roots, stun, snare and mesmerize spells. Target will still take damage from snare/root spells that do damage.

Grapple   Active  Short range single target effect that stuns the attacker for 12 seconds nullifying all effects. It roots the target making them unable to move or use melee, but they may still cast and use chants/pulsing spells for 10 seconds. Grappled target cannot be attacked by melee.

Testudo      Active   Warrior with shield equipped covers up and takes 90% less damage for all attacks for 45 seconds. Can only move at reduced speed (speed buffs have no effect) and cannot attack. Using a style will break testudo form.

All love, Haemish, I know you aren't a current player :) (Two of these were from New Frontiers, Grapple was from TOA.)

[Nebu]

All of the new changes are great for heavy tanks.  As a long time, fairly hard-core player, I've played both a hero and a warrior past rr5 and it's true that they needed to add a little something to make the class more group friendly.  I do think that the climb walls was a bit much.  Assassins are already clammoring that they have no role in RvR.  Now they will potentially have to deal with not only other assassins, but vampiirs and heavy tanks on their walls.  A RR5 warrior with testudo and a healer within range will be able to devastate most things on a wall. 

Overall I'm pleased with the current changes to the game and hope that they continue.  I just can't help but wonder why it has taken them 4 years to start implementing these features.  I'm guessing some of this is "proof-of-concept" stuff for Warhammer.  Not a bad way for the current Mythic playerbase to beta test and pay for the priviledge.  Sorry... sometimes the jaded gamer in me seeps out.

[Shockeye]

Some days I feel like dusting off my Thane, but I don't really want to go through the trouble of levelling on a classic server no matter how "painless" people say it is.

[Valmorian]

Testudo      Active   Warrior with shield equipped covers up and takes 90% less damage for all attacks for 45 seconds. Can only move at reduced speed (speed buffs have no effect) and cannot attack. Using a style will break testudo form.

All love, Haemish, I know you aren't a current player :) (Two of these were from New Frontiers, Grapple was from TOA.)

Unless the Testudo also protects those around the Warrior from arrows, it's not exactly what Haemish was talking about when he said:
a kind of shield wall effect that allowed for an AOE arrow block in a short radius around them (for board and blade type warriors).


Personally, My 50 Hero was a Sword and Board (or Blade and Board I guess, technically) but the one thing I wanted to be able to do was to target an ally and automatically be able to use my shield to help defend him. 

Actually, by biggest complaint about DAOC was the interface.  It's awful.  NO game should have "/command" type interfaces as a requirement.  EVERY ability should not only be a Button, but there should be an easy way to link that button to any key on your keyboard in an easy visual way.

[Nebu]

Some days I feel like dusting off my Thane, but I don't really want to go through the trouble of levelling on a classic server no matter how "painless" people say it is.

It's still painful.  It's just an order of magnitude less painful than it was.  Let's say that it's now like a swift kick to the groin where as it used to be having your sack gnawed off by a colony of fire ants.  DAoC is pretty much the last game anyone should play expecting a fun and interesting PvE experience.  It's all about the endgame.  

If that weren't bad enough, the sad truth is that Thanes still suck.  So... you'd go through South Park's rendition of rochambeau only to end up with a level 50 toon that will never get an RvR group.

[squirrel]

Some days I feel like dusting off my Thane, but I don't really want to go through the trouble of levelling on a classic server no matter how "painless" people say it is.

I totally felt that way and still do mostly. Although i love the lowbie BG's so i resubbed and started on a classic server for when i can't get anything going in WoW. DAoC pve is still dull as ever, but the catacomb task dungeons have greatly reduced the amount of dullness required. I got one char to 15 and another to 10 in about 3 hours play. Levelling seems to be about the same pace as WoW - without the interesting quests or locations mind you.

[Nebu]

Actually, by biggest complaint about DAOC was the interface.  It's awful.  NO game should have "/command" type interfaces as a requirement.  EVERY ability should not only be a Button, but there should be an easy way to link that button to any key on your keyboard in an easy visual way.

You can make a /macro of any /command you wish and turn it into a hotkey.  You can then /qbind that hotkey to any key on your keyboard.  The new UI even allows the use of 3 hotbars at a time using 1-0 or alt+1-0 or ctrl+1-0.

The interface is still dated relative to WoW, but they have made some improvements.  I've found it more than adequate for RvR.

EDIT: I've played nearly every MMOG to date and DAoC is the one I've kept going back to.  Matter of fact, I think I'm the only person on these boards that even plays this game regularly.  That being the case, I'll be happy to answer any questions to the best of my ability. 

[HaemishM]

What Valmorian said about Tetsudo, as well as the Grapple that's in the game not being an area effect thing. Granted, I wouldn't have known these abilities were in the game because I haven't played a tank since I quit DAoC the first time, and when I reupped around the release of New Frontiers, I played a scout.

As for interfaces, Shadowbane still had one of the best interfaces I've ever seen, at least as far as customization out of the box. The capability to drag any skill, power, spell or ability to the screen and have it be a button (which could be clicked on or hotkeyed or both) as if the screen was a desktop... le brilliant.

[Shockeye]

If that weren't bad enough, the sad truth is that Thanes still suck.  So... you'd go through South Park's rendition of rochambeau only to end up with a level 50 toon that will never get an RvR group.

Spoken like the pansy lurikeen you probably play.

[Nebu]

Testudo is basically an ability that gives a warrior high immunity to melee attacks with the cost of his movement being greatly reduced.  This makes their already high hp last even longer.  

Grapple is an ability on the ToA servers (from a Master Level) that allows the user to essentially take another player out of a fight at the expense of themself (i.e. the player that grapples can do nothing else and the grappled player is unable to act).  This works especially well in the case of a low RR player being able to grapple a high RR player during a conflict.  This one of the primary abilities that caused me to leave the ToA servers.  It's a "cheese" tactic used commonly to lock down a key target with an expendable foe.  

[Nebu]

Spoken like the pansy lurikeen you probably play.

I couldn't live with myself if I played Hibernia on the classic servers.  The current balance issues make Hibernia easy-mode. 

The reason I mention the part about thanes is that I played one for almost a year (like 3 years ago).  I finally gave up when SI came out.

[Valmorian]

You can make a /macro of any /command you wish and turn it into a hotkey.  You can then /qbind that hotkey to any key on your keyboard.  The new UI even allows the use of 3 hotbars at a time using 1-0 or alt+1-0 or ctrl+1-0.

I don't think I was clear enough.  At no point in the game should I ever have to type "/anything".  I shouldn't have to even type it into a macro box.  There should be a menu of all the abilities I have, with full descriptions of what they do, unique (or at least clear) icon buttons beside each description that I can drag and drop onto the screen/taskbar.

If you ever require your customer to type a command to perform a non-communication related function, you need to hire a better UI team.