Thomas Haden Church and Topher Grace to be Spiderman villians.

[eldaec]

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/Movies/03/22/film.church.reut/index.html

Thomas Haden 'that-guy-from-Sideways' Church is to play the as yet unnannounced villian in Spiderman3.

Meaning that either...

1) Raimi is going to leave his GG plot hanging after reportedly his last spiderman film.
2) Raimi is going to do 4+ films.
3) There will be two villians in one film. <Shudder>

[schild]

Wow. They managed to find the guy who looks more like William Defoe than anyone else in the industry. Fantastic!

Sorry, I'm incapable of taking stuff like this seriously. Until they give his villianous role a name, this is Useless News.

[stray]

I did hear a while back, when a reporter asked Raimi about the next Spidey villian.

"It's all in black and white." He had a little smirk going on there too.

/shrug

I dunno. Lowell will make a good villian, whoever it is. I'm surprised it took this long for him to finally get some recognition.

/rant

(ignore if you wish)

I've always thought it was funny how the "side characters" from sitcoms end up getting more gigs later on, while the stars of those shows always fall into obscurity. For example: Woody Harrelson, Tony Shaloub, Chelsea Grammar, and now Thomas Haden Church.

But where in the hell is Ted Danson these days?

/rant off

[schild]

But where in the hell is Ted Danson these days?

Hopefully retired.


ZING!

[stray]

But where in the hell is Ted Danson these days?

Hopefully retired.


ZING!

Kirstie Allie needs to follow suit. She's been popping up on my television a lot lately (and I don't even watch that much of it). I guess she's trying to make a "comback". But why was she better than Shelly Long in the first place? Have you seen Night Shift?

I have nothing but love for that ass (in it's day, of course).

The pig on my TV screen -- I could do without her.

edit: Someone rerail this quick. I'm too tired to even try.

[SirBruce]

Well, he was in Saving Private Ryan, and the short-lived TV series Becker.  I haven't heard much from him since he got in trouble for wearing blackface to a comedy roast thing (it was Whoopi's idea).

As for Thomas Haden Church, well assuming he doesn't replace one of the other actors (so no Green Goblin 2, Lizard, etc.) then my bet is on Sandman, who seems to be a natural for CGI work, and whom he can look the part.

Bruce

[schild]

Well, he was in Saving Private Ryan, and the short-lived TV series Becker.  I haven't heard much from him since he got in trouble for wearing blackface to a comedy roast thing (it was Whoopi's idea).

He was misunderstood. Blackface is a lost art.



GO GO AL JOLSON!

[Ironwood]

I liked Becker.  It was a show about a Doctor that told you to get to fuck.

Worked for me.


It also had the Dax Unit in it.  I never realised, till watching Becker, that she had such tiny boobs.

[Der Helm]

It also had the Dax Unit in it.  I never realised, till watching Becker, that she had such tiny boobs.

Now I know why that face looked so familar, thanks a lot

[Sky]

My prediction: the Hobgoblin.

[HaemishM]

I thought they'd do much better just turning the younger Osborn into the Green Goblin or the Hobgoblin. Or turning Conner into the Lizard, who is a much more ubiquitous Spider-Man villain than say, the Sandman. Or God forbid, fucking Venom. Please, no Venom. PLEASE?! I also shudder to think there could be 2 villains in the movie, or worse, 3. Because as we all should know, the Green Goblin didn't die when he got skewered, the serum actually allowed him to regenerate, go live in Europe, fuck Gwen Stacy and make monster children who aged too quickly.

Shoot me now.

[shiznitz]

Dax = her? Shawnee Smith.

[HaemishM]

No, not that one.

Dax = Terry Farrell.

This one.

[Sky]

Well, the groundwork is laid for Harry to be the second iteration of the GG, which follows canon (Harry can't play the HG, because he's the second GG). I'm guessing Church will play the hobgobber, because it would allow the GG plot to live through this movie without actually bringing in the GG. Also, they don't have to do a ton of backstory explaining the genesis of the villian and his powers, stealing the GG formula to use on himself provides an instant backstory from the first movie. My bet would be an unveiling or strong suggestion at the end of the movie that Harry has taken the formula after the HG is defeated by Spidey. Hell, if they incorporate the GG plot, it's not canon breaking for the 2nd GG to beat the HG himself (though I don't think he beat the first HG...it's hard to tell, the HG plots got super blurry).

It makes a lot more sense than most of the other spidey 'regulars' like Mysterio, Sandman, Vulture, Lizard, Electro, etc, etc; between the physical appearance of the actor and the groundwork already laid out in the first two movies.

[stray]

Three iterations of a "Goblin" character (Norman, Harry, and Hobgoblin) is serious overkill. It already sucks in the comics, and it'd suck worse in the flicks.

Venom would probably suck worse though, unless the plot was condensed and significantly changed (but if that's the case, it wouldn't really be Venom and the point is moot).

While I like Mysterio, he's just too damn corny for the big screen.

Man Wolf: See Mysterio

Lizard: See Man Wolf (It's OK to touch on these characters like they did in Spidey 2, but c'mon. It won't work.)

Kraven: See Lizard.

Vulture: Ditto. Even if Ben Kingsley gets the part.

Sandman: Winner! He's just a criminal and a thug. There's nothing inherently corny about that. Nothing corny about his powers or his name either. And he's different in every way from the Goblin that it wouldn't bore audiences to see the both of them in the same movie.

[shiznitz]

No, not that one.

Dax = Terry Farrell.

This one.

I never liked DS9, but I should have made the connection.

[Furiously]

Shawnee Smith > Terry Farrell

[Strazos]

They managed to find the guy who looks more like Willem Defoe than anyone else in the industry.

Yeah, I know William is his birth name, and we all knew who you were refering to..but isn't ir proper to use a person's stage name when applicable?

[Big Gulp]

Lizard: See Man Wolf (It's OK to touch on these characters like they did in Spidey 2, but c'mon. It won't work.)

I don't see why Lizard wouldn't work.  Sure, it's not a "plausible" character, but we're talking about a movie with a guy in blue and red tights with the powers of a spider.  Suspension of disbelief isn't exactly a problem with these movies.  You could make Lizard a pretty damned scary villain IMO.  Another decent one would be Electro.  Flashy for the screen, a little bit crazy, a decent overall character.

I agree, though, that tossing another version of Green Goblin (which I also consider Hobgoblin to be) would just be a waste.  I think Raimi's got to touch on it with the foreshadowing of the last movie, but make it at best a subplot.

[Ironwood]

I agree with Gulp.  Given that we've already had an introduction to Conners, I don't see a problem with making the Lizard the villain.  Especially since, when done well, his tragedy is such a damn good story.

Nowthat the casting's already been done, however, I think not.

[stray]

I just don't see how a Lizard in a labcoat is going to translate well to the big screen. Not that I myself can't appreciate a Conners story, but really...Think about it.

[Merusk]

Rami had a psychic premonition, and in a twisted parallel of real-life he's going to have J.j. Jameson turn into a murdering fiend in a Jekyl/ Hyde kind of twist.  Mr. Church will of course be in blackface for the part.

I had to do it.  Ever since I heard JJ Jameson was arrested all I could think of when seeing this thread was, "what kind of a guy runs away from 2 murders and then becomes a poet named for a Spiderman character."

[Strazos]

A genius, apparently.

[Ironwood]

I just don't see how a Lizard in a labcoat is going to translate well to the big screen. Not that I myself can't appreciate a Conners story, but really...Think about it.

You're mental.  I can see it vividly.  I think a darker tone of the film with a sort of Shakespearean struggle in the villain (kind of like the Green Goblin, but more visceral) would just set it off nicely.  The Lizard set pieces could be darker, with a more 'horror' aspect to it.  Given the nature of the beast, I think it could be quite gripping.  Especially with the Evil Dead man at the helm.

I LOVED the internal struggle in Doc Ock.  Particularly since he's such a fine actor.  I think making villians more than one dimensional is of paramount importance.  Which is why stupid things like Carnage, venom and the like are just fanboi wanking.

Which reminds me - I fucking Hate the way Bendis caved.   What a pussy.

[stray]

I LOVED the internal struggle in Doc Ock.  Particularly since he's such a fine actor. I think making villians more than one dimensional is of paramount importance.  Which is why stupid things like Carnage, venom and the like are just fanboi wanking.

Doc Ock was great. Molina is great. But like I said: A lizard in a labcoat? That's just as much fanboi wanking as Venom is. That's exactly the kind of material that would only hold up for comic book fans. Imo, many mainstream viewers would have a hard time accepting it.

And besides, I don't understand why you would even mention Molina to compare with this. He's an actor. The Lizard, on the other hand, would have to be 100% CGI. It's not comparable. CG may be great for action, but in closeups, the "performance" would suck. And because of that, it'd ruin any intentions in making it "Shakespearean". The whole idea is silly.

Hell, I'd rather prefer Mysterio or Vulture to Lizard. They may be even more corny, but at least there'd be some visible human talent involved.

[Murgos]

Why the fuck do you dumbasses think the lab coat is going to make the translation to the screen?

I swear at times you people can get pretty myopic.

[stray]

Why the fuck do you dumbasses think the lab coat is going to make the translation to the screen?

I swear at times you people can get pretty myopic.

OK. Even without the labcoat, a few integral things about the Lizard would be equally stupid:

Connor's transforms on and off as the Lizard through a "serum" --- Typical comic book crap. They'd have to think of something better than that for a movie version.

The only thing he ever cares about in the comics is "killing fleshies" and "taking over the world". There's nothing multidimensional about him (other than that Connors knows he's fucked whenever he's back in human form).

He has the ability to communicate "telepathically" with other reptiles.

If the movie version was some reptillian version of American Werewolf in London, then yeah, maybe a movie version would be good. They'd just have to get rid of just about everything in the comics to accomplish that.

[Ironwood]

Jesus Christ - somehow you managed to read into what I said that the LIZARD (not Connors) should be doing Romeo and Juliet Soliloquies.

NO - that's NOT what I meant.  I was talking about the horror that Connors feels turning into a beast.  And that's why I said 'darker' because the comic format wouldn't work terribly well - I'm talking about the lizard SHREDDING someone....


And I got to agree with the poster above about your fixation with the labcoat.  Sure, you can LOSE the labcoat.  As long as there's more cowbell...

[eldaec]

OK. Even without the labcoat, a few integral things about the Lizard would be equally stupid:

Connor's transforms on and off as the Lizard through a "serum" --- Typical comic book crap. They'd have to think of something better than that for a movie version.

The only thing he ever cares about in the comics is "killing fleshies" and "taking over the world". There's nothing multidimensional about him (other than that Connors knows he's fucked whenever he's back in human form).

He has the ability to communicate "telepathically" with other reptiles.

You could write the first two points about Doc Ock (substitute mind controlling arms for serum).

On your third point, I don't see what is inherently unfilmable about a guy with reptiles for pets.

Anyway, you can get away with an awful lot in spiderman films, because the real villian in all spiderman stories is Peter Parker's angst. The actual flesh and blood opponent, is, in most cases, and certainly in Raimi's vision, just the shiny obstacle that spiderman can only defeat if he first beats down whatever personal problems he has this week. This draws the eye away from the villian and onto spiderman, and means you can get away with an awful lot of shit on the villian side so long as spidey looks good. The various goblin incarnations being the most obvious example of a villian that in any other universe would just look rubbish.

I would think they'll go with GG2 / HG, simply because if it's Raimi's last film he'll want to finish the GG arc. Probably with Harry/GG2 switching sides to be good at the end of the film and then dying in the process of helping spiderman finish off HG.

THC to play an Osborne cousin/brother/uncle who becomes HG?

[Sky]

Well, I didn't want to consider a marvel CGI or rubberized villian after seeing the atrocity that is Ben Grimm in the new FF movie. My faith in Marvel movies is shaken, though I know they pooped out the Hulk, too. Spidey and the X-men were just so much better (I guess I should wait to see the movie before passing judgement...but I'm pretty sure it will suck with the modern equivalent of 90210 as the cast and Chet the asshole older brother from Weird Science (post transformation) as the Thing...).

I dunno, I guess it would be too much to have the HG in this one and GG in the next. Maybe the whole HG/GG saga could be wrapped up in one movie? (stray posted over me, heh)

Ok, my real money is on Church as Kraven!  :mrgreen:

Or maybe the robot suit for JJJ, going with that real-world...'tie-in'

[Paelos]

The unwashed geek quotient of the forum is rising rapidly based only on this thread. Seriously people, its a movie based on a comic. I'll look forward to seeing if they don't turn it into a Lucas-like CGI-fest.

[HaemishM]

Ok, wait, Jeykl and Hyde's serum makes sense (being a well-established piece of literature) but a guy transforming into the Lizard from a serum wouldn't be? Huh? Cinematically, it could work with little trouble. The suspension of belief in the audience is already there. I mean, did tridium make any more sense to a movie goer than that? It's all mushy science jargon, with the less said, the better.

As for pathos, the Lizard would be a great tragic character, and as for CGI, Gollum in Two Towers proved it can be done. I'd love to see Raimi's take on the Lizard, though I don't hold high hopes for him with Church now cast.

[SirBruce]

Well, I didn't want to consider a marvel CGI or rubberized villian after seeing the atrocity that is Ben Grimm in the new FF movie. My faith in Marvel movies is shaken, though I know they pooped out the Hulk, too.

Don't forget DareDevil and Elektra... actually I don't think DareDevil was badly made, but the story was totally ho-hum.

Bruce

[Sky]

The unwashed geek quotient of the forum is rising rapidly based only on this thread.

You are posting on a internet message board about video games and run a christian blog. Cast not the first stone, son. Your comment was more worthless than Murgos' post.

Back on track, I sortakinda liked DD, but something about the story bugged me, too. Very choppy and odd. On Haemish's recommendation, I picked up the Director's Cut. I now like DD, that cut made it a far better movie.

If you want a really good troubled character, you can't do better in spidey's villianry than Electro. He was a pretty good character, and it would be a good visual moment when he tries to commit suicide and blacks out manhatten. He and spidey were actually allied for a while, too, so there are some interesting twists going on.

Bring back the Sinister Six, beyotch!

[SirBruce]

I don't care who the villian is; I just want to see a sexy actress as Black Cat.  Meow.

Bruce