Your experiences with organized Christian religion

[Paelos]

Almost everyone has set foot in a church in one time or another, and there is a reason that they either hang around or they get out. I'm looking for your stories. I'm looking for the examples from your life behind the reasons. Tell me about the best and worst Christians you've ever met. What made you stay in a church? What made you leave?

What I'm NOT looking for is opinions on people or churches you've never had a personal experience with. To me, those opinions are always based on an internal personal experience, and that's the key to what I'm looking for. The reason I ask is that I'm looking at writing a paper for a Christian publication, and your stories would be a great help with framing my argument. Thanks.

[WayAbvPar]

Let's keep this one anecdotal only- if it turns into a debate it will end up in Politics or (more likely) the Den. Don't make me do that.

Personally- I was raised by Catholic father and a Protestant mother. When I was very young, I went to Catholic Mass with my Dad and siblings. My mother discovered fundamentalism when I was about 5 or 6, and that starts a holy war in the family.

I didn't like either experience, to be honest. Both sects had 'rules' that just didn't make sense to me (Catholic ban on birth control, fundies who wouldn't eat 'unclean' foods and disallowed facial hair); if it doesn't pass my logic test, I can't take it seriously. Why in the world would God care what I ate or whether I grew a beard or not? Why is all sex supposed to be for procreation only?

I took umbrage with what I saw as man 'interpreting God's will' to control my life for no logical reasons. At this point, I am completely turned off to any form of organized religion. Once a hierarchy is in place, it interferes with what should be a private relationship between an individual and their God.

[stray]

I'm just going to copy and paste from this thread:

I consider myself someone who takes his beliefs fairly seriously, but man, I have some funny stories. I may be Christian, but I've never been too comfortable with churches. I wish it weren't so though.

I didn't have a Christian upbringing or anything, so I never stepped into a church until I came upon on religion my own (I was once "relocated" to private school run by nuns, but that's another story). When I did, I immediately felt out of place. These were the same people that I couldn't stand for years, and here I was, with similar beliefs this time -- and they still gave me every excuse to walk away.

I remember going to my first Sunday service with a neighbor that I knew, and the minute I stepped in I got singled out. After the service, the "youth" preacher walked me outside and "admonished" me (his words) saying that I wasn't taking Christ seriously and was only there to disrupt people. So he advised me not to come back unless I "changed my hair" (it was blue -- but nothing too outlandish). I didn't know whether to laugh or cry (Funny thing though: My neighbor told me that the next week, he saw a few of the girls the next Sunday with blue hair as well. Rofl. I guess I did disrupt people? Definitely not my intention though...).

That's just one of the silly situations, but there's others that'd test the patience of anyone. I've tried to find the "right place", but for most part, it isn't to be found. You guys probably have your fair share of lame crap too, so I'm not going to go into it. I will say though: If you have some animosity because of churches and whatnot -- I understand completely. As a Christian I understand, and as a person who used to "not" be one, I understand from that point of view too. There are some good things I've seen, of course, but for most part, I make no excuses.

So basically, I'm a Christian (that is, I believe in Christ, as well as everything in the Nicene or Apostle's Creed), but I can't seem to find anything but a hassle as far as churches go. So I stopped caring. I will say that theologically though, I'm probably some weird concoction of an Orthodox and Calvinist (I'm too busy to explain atm).

[Mesozoic]

I was supposed to be Lutheran; I had to ask my mother this at some point years ago because my denomination was completely unknown to me - I was not raised in a religious household.  I married a Catholic just over two years ago and plan to start the Rite of Christian Initiation (i.e. become Catholic) in a few weeks.  During RCIA I will have the opportunity to ask any questions that come up prior to Baptism on Easter.  I have been attending Mass with my wife for about 5 years now.

I see nothing wrong with "organized" religion any more than I see something wrong with "organized" gaming; if something is important to you, you tend to gravitate towards like-minded people.  Of course, the organized faithful are just as human as the "unorganized," and have the same human tendency toward immorality / sin.  But because there is no "Church of the Unorganized," theres no bullseye target to throw disparaging comments at.  When a person with no affiliation and only vague religious views commits a crime, no one decries the failures of those following a "personal God." - its understood that the crime  was totally the fault of the individual.

[Shockeye]

I was raised Missouri Synod Lutheran.

I was one with the Pot Luck.

[Fargull]

Best christian I knew would have been my sociology professor, who was an ordained minister that did not believe in god.

Worst christian I know through their son out for falling in love with a non-christian and getting her pregnant.  The son is a good friend of mine and a much better parent than his were.  He is a taoist now.

I have been to Notre Dame and have to say that is the prettiest church I have been in that is christian.

My father is catholic, my mother is methodist, and I am an agnositic non-chrisitian.  Best reason I can give for my non-chrisitian view is I can not get past the dogma of the whole christ myth.  Concrete Blonde summed it up very well with Tomorrow, Wendy.

[Bunk]

Neither of my parents belonged to any organized religion that I am aware of. My mom is somewhat spiritual, my dad doesn't talk about it, but is more less an Atheist. They never made any effort to influence me one way or the other as I grew up. By about highschool I came to the realization that I was an Atheist.

I've never been to a church service other than weddings or funerals. I have or have had friends that vary from RC, Protestant, Sikh, J's Witness, and various misc Christian that I've never asked about.

Anecdotes:

 - I remember my best friend when I was about six coming home from Sunday Scholl and telling me I would go to hell if I didn't start going to church. I though it was nice that he cared, but didn't believe it.

 - In my teens, my Aunt and Uncle found some fundy group - they followed such great beliefs like Smurfs were evil little blue devils. Never really liked that Aunt anyway.

 - In my twenties a guy I worked with in the past who had been a total party animal and an asshole - got rehired. He had found God since he had left. Read his Bible at work every day. Tried argueing with me that the Earth was 1000 years old, and that dinosaur bones had been planted by God to test us. I didn't care, he was still an asshole.

- A good friend of mine grew up in a Catholic family. Was fairly Agnostic until he hit about 25, and something made him start to take Catholicism to heart. Being good friends, we'd occasionally sit in the bar and debate our beliefs over a beer. It amazes me how well prepared new found Catholics are for debating this stuff. Do they have special training seminars before Mass?

- Went to the same guy's wedding. He's Catholic, she's Protestant. They had the wedding in a Catholic Church. It was like a Catholic Wedding-Lite. Ceremony was only about 20 minutes, because there were a whole buch of parts they couldn't do due to the mixed faiths. The groom had to actually prod the Priest to say a sermon or something to draw the ceremony out a bit. So what's he do? Breaks out a sermon about the sanctity of marriage that came accross as a thinly veilled attack on Gay marraige. Oh well.

What else can I say. I've always been impressed by religious architecture.

[Paelos]

Best christian I knew would have been my sociology professor, who was an ordained minister that did not believe in god.

Could you elaborate on this please, Fargull? The best Christian you know didn't believe in god? What were his characteristics like? What made him a good Christian to you?

[Dren]

I was raised Catholic, but after I was confirmed (9th grade) I pretty much just went to church to satisfy my mom.  I met my wife who was raised Evangelical Free (basically nondenominational) and their family thought Catholics were the devil. (They didn't know much about it.)

We met in High School and never went to church.  We went through college and never went to church.  We went to church a few times to satisfy the church so we could get married there.  Then we stopped going again.

After our second child was born we started thinking about our lives and our time away from the church and our religions.  I knew I wasn't going back to Catholism.  I was not too wild about my in-law's church either.

We got invited to a local church by some friends that said it was very contemporary and non-denominational.  They said it was run by one pastor and a group of elders.  That was it.  There wasn't any huge political issue there, it was lead and run by a permanent selection of people which is to say it was run by the one pastor that started it.  They are fundamental in the fact that they let the Bible decide everything.  Yet, they don't pick and choose areas to dictate how you should do things to please God like drinking, gambling, dancing, etc.  All that is fine.

We tried it and never looked back.  We are both very active in our ministries there and have found great long lasting friendships too.  Our kids have great fun and learn a lot in the schools they run during services.  That's right, no kids in the services so very little distractions.

We use a large amount of high tech video and audio equipment and I help with that most every Sunday or Saturday.  They make use of a lot of current film clips or videos to make points.  They absolutely do not shy away from controversial subjects and relate everything from today's life to parts of the bible that pertain.  In my mind, it is perfect.  The worship songs are contemporary and not boring at all.  The band is made up of volunteers, but they are all typically professionals so the sound is commercial quality.

They don't care how you're dressed (I normally go in jeans or shorts with sandals.)  They don't care about your status and they rarely bring up tilthing, but they let you know it is necessary.  They are a seeker church, meaning their purpose is to spread the word of Jesus's saving grace, but completely believe it is between the individual and Jesus as to whether they truly believe.  That can never be forced upon anyone.

The youth programs (Junior High and High School) are extemely contemporary.  Some of the groups they have come to perform are way out there with hardcore metal rap to more of what you might expect too.  They have comedians come in too.  The kids are expected to come to their own conclusion with Jesus and what he has to offer, but of course they give them all the advise and training they care to have too.  Again, nothing is forced on anyone and they are all accepted in for a great safe and fun place to be.

Our church started as mobile meeting in a school gymnasium.  Now we are in our second year in our building, which is huge and extremely high tech and multipurposeful.  We commonly host national muscial and comedian acts (as long as they are appropriate meaning no cursing, drugs, smoking and must have a positive message.)  They don't necessarily have to have a Christian message but that doesn't hurt.

That covers most of it, but not all of it.

[Paelos]

What else can I say. I've always been impressed by religious architecture.

So the leadership upsets you the most then? What about changing the way a church was run? Is it inherent in the message itself that no church structure could work for you? I'm trying to discover if the structure itself is the main factor in driving people out.

[shiznitz]

I was raised Episcopalian. We went to church most Sundays, but once we were confirmed (age 14 at my church) our parents made it optional - which meant I stopped going. I actually enjoyed Sunday school as a kid. I found the Bible interesting. Sunday school was taught by local parents, though, not a preachy clergyman. I went to boarding school for grades 9-12. It was my choice to go (albeit both my parents and lots of uncles and cousins went) and my choice of school (the same one my Dad and his Dad attended.) It was an Episcopal school with a service on Sunday evenings. There was also a chapel Thursday, but it was more a community event than a religious one. Every student had to take a once a week (versus 3 times a week for most) religious class in 10th grade.

After high school, I never went to church again unless it was a funeral, baptism or wedding. My parents used to ask me to come with them on Easter or Christmas if I was home but I generally refused.

Why?

I find the repetitiveness of religious services horribly boring. The Apostles' Creed becomes really tiresome the 200th time and it isn't any better the 500th time. I believe in a higher power, but I really don't believe He cares if we worship in a specific building. In my mind, all that matters to Him is how we treat others. I generally give help to those who ask, but don't seek out those in need actively so even within my very broad definition I come up short. Bottom line, nothing I experienced in church convinced me that Jesus Christ was the Lord made flesh. He was just a prophet like all the others (Isaiah, Ezekiel) with a message that needed (and needs) to be spread.

Another thing I don't like about organized religion is that a lot of the members of any particular congregation consider that membership a badge of honor or a shield from criticism.

Despite all this, I am torn by a desire for my kids to have some exposure to religion so they can make up their own minds. I keep telling myself I am going to start taking my son to Sunday school but the thought of sitting in the chapel for an hour listening to the same old prayers and hymns again makes me squirm just thinking about it.

[shiznitz]

What else can I say. I've always been impressed by religious architecture.

So the leadership upsets you the most then? What about changing the way a church was run? Is it inherent in the message itself that no church structure could work for you? I'm trying to discover if the structure itself is the main factor in driving people out.

Great question, Paelos.

Church as a gathering is outdated, maybe. In the 1500s, it was important for people to have a central gathering place. It was also necessary if the church hoped to collect any tithes. Having all your customers visit you at the same time makes gathering donations a lot easier. The way the message is delivered has to change with the times. Even as recently as the 1900s, most people didn't even have access to scripture because so many could not even read. Why should I go to Church to hear Mr Minister spouting the denominational interpretation when I can read the Bible myself? If the Bible is so sacred, why are there so many "plain language" versions coming out? Those versions just diminish any mystery. That is a rhetorical question because it is obvious why - accessibility.

[Sky]

I was raised Baptist. My grandmother, who I spent a lot of time with, was a bible study teacher, both my grandparents were extremely active in church - it was their entire social life, basically. Up until the age of 13 or so, I attended church multiple days a week, and all day sunday for various classes and services.

I got out of it because I simply don't buy the dogma. I have a ravenous scientific curiosity, and rather than discuss this, I was constantly rebuffed with simplistic platitudes "You just have to believe!". And being Baptist, I kinda had some issues with the whole 'get dunked in the magic pool or you burn for eternity in hell' thing. I'm not down with that kind of god, really.

I then embarked on a long journey of study, working over several accepted religions and philosophies before getting into the occult for many years. In all my studies, I found myself constantly rejecting the manmade dogma for the reality of existence I can see around me. My idea of a church isn't some stone building with pretty windows, but rather a nice waterfall or shady copse of trees, the very places this 'god' has provided himself via natural selection. I do not let man enter into my relationship with the unknown, which I sum up as 'nature'. I do not externalize internal fortitude and wisdom, nor do I seek to shrieve myself of my mistakes, I learn from them.

Given my early religious education, I find the lack of holiness amongst even church members very disturbing and hypocritical, the seeming lack of understanding of the teachings of the prophets, the ignorance of the fundamental commandments laid out by early folklore, I feel the entire christian church is fairly out of touch with the teachings of Christ. Even the veneration of Christ over God bothers me...I don't feel Christ was sent (well, I don't believe he was literally sent by God anyway, just an exceedingly advanced and wise man imo) to be worshipped, but to deliver a message. The Catholic church in particular has strayed extremely far off the path of holiness and even the very words they claim to follow.

I'd like to see humanity as a whole drop this decisive and destructively seperatist idea of 'religion' and just move to a more humanistic spirituality that treats all humans as equals to be respected, without the whole dog and pony show, the funny hats, the pre-designated holy places. It'd be nice to end one of the reasons for unending strife in the world, even if it doesn't mean an end to strife in the world.

Really, the whole rigamarole is just to treat people with respect and not be a douchbag. Not much money in that, though, and no power to wield.

[Fargull]

Could you elaborate on this please, Fargull? The best Christian you know didn't believe in god? What were his characteristics like? What made him a good Christian to you?

The story is his, but I will do my best to explain.  He was born into a heavily methodist family and took up the calling and got his degree in ministry.  He enjoyed academia and thus branched into several areas.  He ended up with a Doctorate in Sociology, I think he has multiple doctorates, but that is the one I knew him under.  He was in the military and as I understood it was a minister in this capacity also, one of his main drives was the learning of knowlege.  He was very active in the community and provided social services to those who could not afford, presented in court, and was consulted on a national scale on human rights issues.  He explained in class that he stopped believing in god in this fifties.  He believes in the community of the church, but does not believe in the dogma behind it.  He was one of the most open, compassionate, well rounded individuals I have ever met.  He was one of the few people I have come across that one could term the word wise towards.  I would imagine one could term the same to the dahli lama, though I have not had the pleasure of meeting him.

[WayAbvPar]

I would imagine one could term the same to the dahli lama, though I have not had the pleasure of meeting him.

Big hitter, the Lama.


Now, back to Church Chat.

[jinxer]

Ahh, the days of church.  How clearly I remember them.  

My grandmother used to drag me to church with her every sunday morning and wednesday evening.  Southern Victory Baptist church in Thackerville, Texas.  Woohoo, buddy!

I still remember some of the hymns we would sing aloud to from this cool little hymn book with the velvety edged pages, like "I'll fly away, oh glory, I'll fly away...when I die, Hallelujah, by and by, I'll fly away!"  (which, Johnny Cash did a cover of, as well as a NINs song, go figure)  

After the singing of the hymns and swaying of the bodies, hands raised in the air, we would all sit and listen to the preacher begin his sermon of fire and brimstone.  This was my cue to lie under the pew upon which my grandmother and grandfather sat and play with my barbie dolls.  I would take napkins from my grandmother's purse (because everyone's grandmother carries at least 10 of these and other random useful things in their purses, like toothpicks, at all times) and I would rip them apart and make beds and pillows for my dolls.  Then I would lay them down and pretend like they were sleeping.  Today I wonder exactly what was wrong with me at that point, as sleeping, unmoving dolls are absolutely no fun at all, but this is what I did, almost every time.  

Back to the sermon, the preacher would preach and bounce around the pulpit and eventually it all come to this huge culmination of yelliing and praising Jesus, etc, etc.  And that's when it happened......

People would start moving one by one into a line down the middle of the church up to the preacher, where he would lay his hand upon their forehead at which point they would fall to the floor, limp, as if he'd sucked the life right out of them.  After a moment they would begin thrashing and speaking in tongues (which is what they actually called it).  To me it sounded just like gibberish.  I always wonder now, why I was never scared silly out of my little church dress and why I didn't run screaming for the car.  I suppose it's because I'd been subjected to it since I was teeny tiny and was therefore, used to it.    

I stopped going to church after I was done with sunday school age.  If I ever see anything like that again today, I would be scared shitless.  I haven't been to church in over 10 years, but that doesn't mean I don't pray.    

That's my story.  Hope it's not too meandering for you.   :)

[Paelos]

It seems like many of you had parents that brought you to church, some even really semi-forced. My question is, does this help or hinder your chances of staying in a church group? Is it irrelevant, or was this early experience the main mover in you wanting to stay or never going back?

[ClydeJr]

My parents are both Catholic and that's how they raised both my sister and me. We went to church every Sunday no matter what, even if we were travelling on vacation. My mom would always call ahead to find out where a Catholic church was and what time the Mass was. We didn't go to a Catholic school but we had to go to Continuing Chirstian Education (CCE) every week. That was interesting at times and mindlessly boring at others. Mostly it depended on who was teaching the classes that year. In order to keep attendance up in CCE, we didn't get confirmed until the 11th grade. The CCE class shrank to about 1/5 its size in 12th grade.

During elementary and aprt of junior high schools, we had a priest named Father Thomas. He was a real fire-n-brimstone kinda guy. He thought the only thing kids thought of was sex, drugs, and drinking, and we were all gonig to hell. On some CCE days, he'd call all the classes into the church and sit them down. He'd then call random kids to the front, make them stand att he podium in front of everyone, and then quiz them on what he thought they needed to know. If you go it wrong, he'd berate you in front of everyone causing many kids to start crying.

The priest after that one was Father Tom. This guy was like a hippie priest. Real laid back, rode a motorcycle, and played golf with my dad every week. Completely different from the other priest. Everyone really liked him.

When I went off to college, I continued to go to church for a while. I still remember the first time I decided to not go to church. It was a really pleasant Sunday morning and I just didn't feel like going. I did have a nagging feeling that a bolt of lightning was going to get me though. Since then, I've stopped going to church in any regular fashion. I know this bother my mom a whole lot. She's always talking to me about how I should start going again.

My wife is a Methodist but she doesn't go to church either. During the wedding plans, we decided to have the ceremony at a Methodist church. When we went by the Catholic church to see what we'd have to do to get the marriage recognized there, I was expecting to promise them our first born or something. Surprisingly enough, all they wanted was for us to go to a weekend retreat and make sure we were married in a church (not by Elvis in Vegas).

We usually go to church on the special occasions with either her family or mine. While the Medodist service is nice, it just doesn't feel like church to me. I think of it as Church-Lite "All the singing, half the guilt!" To me, unless you have all the ceremony and rituals of a full Catholic mass, it just doesn't feel like church. I know a lot of that is just my upbringing but it still bothers me when I go to a church service and they don't give the Eucharist.

For some reason, people who can spout off Bible verses (including giving the exact book, chapter, and verse) scare me a bit. They always seem to be more concerned about showing off how much the Bible they've memorized and less about what they are actually saying.

[Dren]

To answer Paelos' second question:

It is impossible for me to tell if my mom (note, not my dad) forcing me to go to church had an impact either way on my ultimate direction.  My initial direction when I was confirmed Catholic was to totally rebel.  I was totally and utterly done with Catholic mass and everything it stood for.  To me it was all show and most the people were there to show they were good Catholics, but ended up being the worst people outside of church you'd ever want to know.  The worse they were, the more they held to the rituals (and told you about it too.)

However, if I hadn't known Christianity in any form by the time I graduated college, I don't know if I ever would have thought about church again.  It was always in the back of my mind, but I always felt there had to be a better way to know and access the love that Jesus has for me.  That nagging in my head led me to the church that fits perfectly into what I think Jesus would have wanted from the beginning.  The road was more than rocky, but ended very well.

[Bunk]

What else can I say. I've always been impressed by religious architecture.

So the leadership upsets you the most then? What about changing the way a church was run? Is it inherent in the message itself that no church structure could work for you? I'm trying to discover if the structure itself is the main factor in driving people out.

I fundementally just don't believe in the idea behind organized religion. I can't come to grips with the idea that any of them could actually be right in thier beliefs.

To me, historically organized religion has always been there to appease the masses. It gives an answer to the questions we don't have answers for, and thus makes it easier for people to accept things the way they are. Don't get me wrong, I do believe that many religious groups are responsible for doing great things, but in general, I think of religion as a crutch.

I've known too many people that have problems in their lives, that end up finding it easier to fall back on religion to comfort them, rather than standing up and trying to improve their situation.

I've always tried to say that I respect people who have conviction in their faith, but honestly I'm lying when I say that. in the back of my mind I'll always see it as a weakness. (No offense, it's just me being honest with myself)

As for structure of the church itself - at least talking Christian religions - yea, I've always had issues with that. I have an Aunt who is a major player in her church's politics. I always found the politicing that goes on to be absurd. from what I've seen of many other major religions, its much the same.

[Abagadro]

Raised/dunked Mormon. Decided it was a crock of shit on theological, sociological and political grounds.

Hung out with some cool Jesuits in college.

[MrHat]

 Very well, where do I begin? My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner from Belgium with low grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery..


No, on a more serious note:

I grew up in Saudi Arabia between the ages of 6 and 13.  In my mind, very key ages in which to 'help' a child along the religious path to enlightenment.  My mother is Roman Catholic of the oldest school (Lebanese Church), and my father was a Lutheran I believe who basically changed his beliefs when he married my mom.  Growing up in Saudi, my only religious influences were my Mother (details of the Catholicism, Bibles stories, the value of morality) and the sect of Islam that is adopted in general by Saudi society.  There were(are) no churches in Saudi, only mosques.  So I grew up basically without any formal religious training as I like to call it.

Somewhere along the timeline, my parents stopped caring about religion, at least Catholicism.  Islam still played a very large roll in our lives (most of my friends were Western Muslims) in the fact that my mom had to cover up or the religious police would deem her dirty and wack her with a stick (Moutawas are ugly people).  Because most of our friends were Muslim, it wasn't really something that we did as a community -- my mother would tell me bible stories to try and teach me about good things and bad things, and my dad made me say prayer before I slept.

When we moved to Dubai, we were finally able to go to Church as there was a large Catholic church in the city.  It was at this point that we became Easter/Christmas Catholics as so many are.  I was 14 going on 20 at the time and didn't have time for the Church in my life.  Curiously, it was a time in my life that I started to grow curious about the Church and Catholicism, as well as the other religions that existed in the melting pot of Dubai.  My friends in highschool were all of different religions - muslim (different sects), hindu, bhuddists, catholic and orthodox.  No Jews (no slant there, just the way it was), and none of the thousands of sects of Christanity that exists here.  The older I got, the more I started to talk with my friends about their various religions.  My parents, while not racist or bigots, based on their prior experiences with certain people, tended to not like me knowing more about Islam and Bhuddism than I did about my given religion of Catholicism.  So they started more and more to try and make me read the bible, and involve it more in our lives.  I started to feel like they were pushing it on me as I was of age enough to decide for myself, and less of the age where you automatically believe what your parents tell you.

The summer after my freshman year in college, my dad was diagnosed with colon cancer and my family moved to Beirut to be closer to family -- just in case.  I went back to college that year a changed man, as seeing your father weakened to the point of surgeory, your mother broken down in front of your eyes, and having to shoulder the burden of caring for the family and your younger brother tends to age a man.  At this point, my family went one way, and I went the other.  They rediscovered Christ, and have become not fundemantilists but good Christians.  I drank and got laid a bunch.

Most recently, when they visit me, we discuss religion and how they feel they failed to train me properly for the rigors of life.  "Andrew, do you believe in Christ?", they ask me.  I tend to reply very firmly, "no."  After that, we discuss for a few hours, and it always comes to the same conclusion.  I don't believe in Christ or religion in general, but I believe in the power of religion to give hope to people who need it.  I believe in the calming, meditative powers of prayer, and the community and sense of being that comes from organized religion.  But I do not believe that one day a man will come and claim his flock for the battle of Heaven and Hell.  I do not believe it was Jesus that saved my dad and my family from the dangers of cancer, because if that was true, then it's also true that His Eminence was the one to give my father cancer.  I cannot believe in God, because for me to believe in God is to believe that God makes mistakes, and he's jealous of humankind and that means that God is just a big child and places me outside most non-cult religions (cult like cult movie hits, not scary cult we're going to kill ourselves).

I don't believe in God, or Heaven or Hell.  I believe in the power of man and community.I believe that religion fosters hope. Religion was a byproduct of evolution, man's first instict was to seek out other man, and to provide strength in numbers in order to live and thrive in the world -- religion provides a method for this function.

Above all, I absolutely respect the power that religion provides.

Edit: Power comment regarding my recent trip to the Vatican and various churches out there.  Some of that is just sick and I can't help but imagine the world was set back 1000 years because of religion.  Also, I still firmly believe that religion is the most powerful form of control.  That's why it's a form of evolution in man -- religion is a form of darwanism and natural selection.  Death from religious belief will continue until globalization occurs.

[Sky]

I would imagine one could term the same to the dahli lama, though I have not had the pleasure of meeting him.

Heh. That's a good one. Maybe one could term the same of Mother Theresa, too. Or that racist bastard Ghandi. I love Penn & Teller.

[Llava]

My father came from an extremely Christian (undefined denomination as far as I know) family, my mother came from a fairly Mormon family.  As one would expect, they grew up to be only nominally "Christian" and raised me as such.

They took me to church once, I think at the behest of grandparents, on Christmas Eve.  I was bored out of my mind and disliked it very much.

In the 1st grade I went with a friend to a youth club he did at night.  It was fun, they had games, drinks, food, etc.  I was too young to realize that any organization that opens up with that is a Christian organization.  I signed up and didn't do very well.  They had a ranking process- copper crowns, silver crowns and gold crowns.  These were pinned to your vest.  Yes, vest.  When one crown filled all the way up with jewels (about 10 jewels per crown) you moved on to the next crown.  You'd get jewels for things like passing your Bible quizzes, etc.  You also got one jewel each time just for showing up.  That's the only way I advanced- I showed up.  I still thought it was cool, though, because I was very young and didn't really understand the complexities of religion.  I just assumed everyone believed in Christ, just like everyone knows Santa is obviously real- where else do the presents come from?  I liked to repeat the things I heard in this group, and apparently the extent to which I repeated this stuff worried my parents and even my super-Christian grandmother.  I probably seemed like quite the Bible nut when I was 6-7.  I remember they made a big deal when I said I accepted Jesus into my heart, even though at the age I had no idea what that meant.  I literally asked out loud one night while I was in bed, and it seemed like a pretty common sense decision at the time.  But it seemed to make them happy, so whatever.

I left that group a bit later of my own volition, mostly because I got bored with it.  I should touch a bit more on that friend and his family, though, because it's the first time I dealt with a very Christian family.

I liked them, but there were some things that struck me as odd.  For one thing, my friend wasn't allowed to watch Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles because it had a talking brain.  They prayed before every meal, which my family didn't do and it always struck me as irritating and a waste of time even when I believed in this stuff.  But, because it was there house, I went with it.  In retrospect, it's weird that my friend wasn't allowed to watch TMNT but they were perfectly fine with him playing Contra (his mom would even come in and do the cheat for us when we couldn't get it).  Isn't the final enemy in Contra another curiosly animated interior organ?

I moved to Arizona about this time and didn't really have much further religious experience for a while.  At this point I was about as Christian as my parents, which is to say I would say "I'm Christian" when people asked my religion and that was about it.  I still wasn't really familiar with the concepts of atheism or agnosticism.  I talked with my best friend about religion a bunch, typical pre-pubescent philosophy stuff, and we both agreed that God existed and that was about it.  He was in a weird combination Christian/Buddhist house, I never really got clear on that.

Eventually came high school.  I met a couple friends who considered themselves atheists and talked with them about it a couple times.  At this stage I was as Christian as someone washing their hands is going for a swim.  The more I thought about it, though my mind still wasn't fully developed at this stage, the less sense religion made to me.  By Sophomore year, I decided I was agnostic.  I went back and forth between agnosticism and atheism for the remainder of high school, and had a few nice run-ins with people who felt they were more Christian than me because I wore shirts for "gothic" bands.

A couple encounters from high school:

Nearly got in a large brawl in the parking lot of a Wendy's because a group of assholes shouted stuff at my friends and I (both having to do with Columbine, which had happened recently, and with our apparent lack of religion).

A friend of mine nearly got in a fight in school when some person I'd never met decided he'd start following/harassing me and initiated this process by saying the first words he'd ever said to me: "What do you have against Jesus, anyway?"  What the fuck is that?

I started a tabletop roleplaying club in the school, I went through all the official avenues and got everyone done by the books.  One week after the first meeting it was shut down.  No one bothered to tell me this, despite being the club founder.  Instead, I learned something was wrong because the morning announcements didn't include our announcement that there was a meeting that day.  I heard from a couple other members that the sponsoring teacher said it was closed down.  I went to speak with her and she acted quite normal with me, until I brought up the subject of the club to which she replied "Oh yeah, the administration shut it down."  I realized I wasn't going to get answers from her, so I went to the vice principal to talk about it.  He told me that the school didn't need the "press" that they had a roleplaying club.  Tell me that's not Christian influence demonizing RPing.  This is, by the way, a public, secular school.

I've got a dozen and more smaller stories, largely just people yelling things at me, comparing me to the Columbine killers and accusing me of being anti-Christian.  I certainly didn't used to be anti-Christian, but damn I got pretty pissed off during these years.  And yes, I committed the ultimate crime of wearing black on a daily basis.  No, I didn't wear fishnets, safety pins, chains, make-up, piercings, or any of that more extreme stuff.  I wore a black T-shirt, usually advertising a band, black jeans, black shoes.  Oooooooo, he's the devil.

On to college!

College was better.  There's only one offensive incident that took place, this was in philosophy class.  I was regarded pretty highly by most people in the class, because I made solid arguments.  The teacher, I'm sure, knew exactly how to dismantle my arguments but he was more the sort to let the class go back and forth than he was to argue one point or another.  During one talk about a subject I don't entirely remember, I believe it was religious tolerance, someone who'd previously expressed respect for me did something odd:
"It really shouldn't matter what religion you are, whether you're Christian <he gestures to himself>, or Jewish <he gestures to the girl who's talked about how she's Jewish> or even in some cult. <he gestures to my girlfriend and I>"

My girlfriend looked at me and I looked at her and we kinda laughed, thinking "Did he really just do that?"  He realized his mistake a little bit later and gestured/silently apologized, but I found it funny that he just automatically assumed the two of us were in a cult, even though I had very clearly made my beliefs known in this class, and he obviously knew them as we'd discussed each of our beliefs both in and out of class.  But instinctively, he thought of us when he thought "Cult."  Fantastic.

I could go on about how I cemented my agnosticism in this class, but that's outside the subject.  My interaction with Christians since then has been pretty limited.  I could also talk about the times I've gone out for Halloween and been shouted at by born-agains holding signs on street corners, but everyone has their crazies so I try not to let people like that influence my opinion of a culture.

Oh! I almost forget:
The best Christian and probably the best person I know are both my Grandmother on my father's side- the very Christian one who believes fate is pre-ordained by God and he has a purpose for everything, etc etc.  She is the kindest person I've ever met, and she's grown over the years from thinking that the Beatles were evil to now being perfectly okay with me not believing in religion.  She's always believed I'm an "old soul" and so, to her, my disbelief in God serves some purpose as ordained by God.  She completely respects my beliefs, and doesn't ask dumbass questions like "If you don't believe in God then why do you celebrate Christmas?"  If all Christians were like her, the world would be a wonderful place.

[shiznitz]

It seems like many of you had parents that brought you to church, some even really semi-forced. My question is, does this help or hinder your chances of staying in a church group? Is it irrelevant, or was this early experience the main mover in you wanting to stay or never going back?

For me it was a gentle forcing since Church was Church and my parents didn't really bring it up other than on Sundays and holidays. If my parents hadn' brought me, I would never have known about it probably. I am glad they exposed me. I am glad they had the sense to let us off the hook at a certain point too. They don't go very much any more. They became dissatisfied with what became a revolving door of minsters about 20 years ago.

Interestingly, my mom became a non-denominational minister by taking a 6 week course. Now she does baptisms and weddings at an eccentric neighbor's private chapel. She uses the Episcopal prayer book still, though. She married me and the wife at that chapel. Sometimes she performs holiday services there. I go if I am home to support her.

[Paelos]

Thanks for the responses so far guys, you are taking the questions seriously and I appreciate that.

My theory, that I'm discussing in the article I'm writing, talks about the reasons that people feel a need to take their children to church even though they aren't especially religious themselves. Then, when the kids grow up, what causes the seperation from the faith, or an even stronger clinging to it. Peoples' anecdotes help me cement a part of the root cause, which I think centers on the fact that the organized church is not engendering a feeling of brotherhood, but rather a combative attitude towards the secular world. In other words, I'm trying to figure out why the church is training people to be divisive, when it's against what I would think is it's community duty. I believe they are taking Jesus' words, "I am the sword to divide brother against brother," a bit too seriously.

Also, I'm trying to come up with the idea of a solution. That is, a church that would be a more welcoming spirit to the world. What would this church look like? Who would belong? What would a church have to do to reach out to you, and let you know that they are pleased you are there without seeming agenda driven?

EDIT: Grammar!

[El Gallo]

Raised Catholic.  Rebelled rather radically as a know-it-all rationalist when I was about 11.  Refused to get confirmed.  Yeah, I was a fucking nerd and a half, now just one nerd.  Anyway, I hated what I perceived to be religion's anti-intellectualism and the Chruch's stances of sex, women, gays, etc etc.  That sort of standard Enlightenment-style spiritual libertarian/liberal John Rawls-fan was basically me through my early 20's.  At that point, I started to feel a bit uneasy about that worldview for a lot of reasons that I don't want to get into (boring, and would take a thread of its own).  At the same time (law and grad school in particular) I started interacting with Jesuit academics who showed me a very different kind of priest, became enamored with Alisdair MacIntyre, who seemed to have some of the same problems with the state of society as I did, and learned something about Catholic liberation theology and the Catholic Workers movement.  A combination of those things led me to get confirmed in the Church in my very late 20's.  I still have more than a few problems with the Church, and particularly where it is headed both in the US and Rome (not as boring, but would still take a thread of its own).  I don't attend Mass very often, but I do consider myself a Catholic now, though I am sure that some would not.

[voodoolily]

I was raised what I interpret to be Protestant, although my parents referred to it as "regular Christian". Until I was about 7 or so, I had gone to Sunday school with my grandparents, whose house I would sleep at on Saturday nights. They spoiled me and my brother, so it was fun. It was a modest church, the one my dad had gone to when he was a kid. My dad had been raised this way, too, although my mom's family had tried out different sects numerous times as she was growing up. My parents didn't come to church with us, maybe because they saw Sunday mornings as a chance to have a break. I think it's because we were very poor and my dad resented tithing. He used to say, "if God is in your heart, then you are a church." After awhile, it became inconvenient to go to church with my grandparents, so I didn't go for awhile. Then I started going to Sunday school with my friend's family (who were Baptists). This church was larger, and way out in the boondocks. If you had memorized your bible verse that week you got to take a huge handful of candy out of a bag. Vacation Bible School at my grandparents' church was a similar thing, except that at the end of the week whoever memorized all the books of the New Testament, Old Testament and the most verses got a silver dollar for each accomplishment. My main memory of these experiences is thinking it was wierd that they were bribing us with money and candy (I was thinking this as a child). I was "saved" at age 8 or 9, but was never baptized. My dad doesn't believe in baptism because "when you're saved you're baptized in the blood of Christ".

When I was a kid, my dad had a serious drinking problem. He would get trashed and if he wasn't yelling at/hitting us, sometimes he'd force us to sit there while he read aloud from the Bible, or make us read aloud. When I was about eight we went to my grandparents' house for Thanksgiving and locked our puppy in the apartment (since we didn't have a yard or anything, and it was cold). When we got back the apartment had been shredded. When my dad saw that the puppy had eaten his Bible he took the puppy out back to the patio and shot him with a 12-gauge rifle.

When I was about 13 or 14, I started having serious questions about the inconsistencies in the Bible, and about why it was okay to disobey some of the Bible's teachings and not others. I was not allowed to ask these questions. When I was in tenth grade I started reading Camus and Sartre, Confucious and Lao Tsu, and by the end of high school I decided I was "agnostic". That is, I felt there was likely a higher being in the universe, but not necessarily one who sent Christ as his son to save humans from sin. I was afraid to admit that I didn't believe in God because of how it would affect my family, not necessarily for fear of my own salvation. A few years later, even believing in any higher being or energy felt contrived, and didn't feel like a "natural" way for me to think. It always felt forced. The Big Questions that people often turn to religion to answer were answered by science and math, or by my "faith" in my own ability to make decisions and to determine right from wrong. I don't rely on faith in a supernatural being to guide me, and I understand the teachings of the Bible are parables that can be as easily learned by reading Aesop.

The best Christian I ever knew was my grandmother. She treated everyone with love and forgiveness, as Jesus taught his followers. Even when she was in pain or sick or injured, she always seemed to be smiling, and she wasn't afraid to die.

[Paelos]

Once again, Voodoo, you remind me that I grew up in the relative Brady Bunch.

Thanks for the input, and I'm sorry that some people have to grow up in those kind of homes.

[NowhereMan]

Well both my parents are Irish Catholics, my mother was a nun for 6 years though she never took her final vows. Of course I was taken to church every Sunday and as child I really didn't like it a lot. Around the age of 12-16 I took a great dislike to Latin and refused to attend church services in Latin, though I think this was more down to being forced to study Latin for my last few years of primary school rather than some advanced notion that the teachings of Jesus should be attainable by everyone. I had the standard Catholic childhood of going every Sunday to a nice Jesuit church and hearing the standard Catholic mass every week. It bored me but I really saw it as part of life, you didn't question it and they even ran a Sunday school for a while, though I never got too involved in that. I was an altar boy for a few years as well, I got to serve mass with Cardinal Hume one Christmas, and I knew that was a pretty important thing to do. So yeah, I grew up a good Catholic and never really questioned the whole thing. At the same time I never went to Catholic school, my primary school was Church of England and I was in the choir there so once a month I went and sang in an Anglican church (it was very high church though so I barely noticed any difference, as far as I was concerned it was a normal church).

I also had an exposure to fundamentalist/evangelical christianity from about 8-15. My dad got very involved in Alpha and so he'd go along to that and Focus groups. Every now and again the whole family would get dragged off to their main church and we got taken off to a few weekend retreat things. I absolutely hated it, admittedly I didn't really understand everything that was going on but as far as I was concerned I was being forced to spend a weekend in some crappy holiday camp and had to listen to some prat sing badly about Jesus. I suppose in large part this was my Catholic 'indoctrination', like ClydeJr said I just didn't think of any of this as real church. I enjoyed some of the activities we had but I really never liked any of the times when we had to sit around and talk or sing about Jesus.

As I grew up I came to dislike most of the people my dad had met through Alpha, these were all self-professed Christians who had accepted Jesus (including Jonathan Aitken, lots of people who had had their lives 'fixed' by Jesus). As far as I could see these people abused my dad's generosity, they were preachy and seemed to do very little to justify any of their attitude. I remember once being lectured by one on the value of charity and good will after I made some remark about how some people didn't deserve help (don't ask me why, I probably just wanted to piss them off) while they were at our house having dinner. It wasn't the first time my dad had invited them over or out to dinner, it wasn't the last and never once did they repay these gestures. I guess these people really left a sour taste in my mouth towards evangelicals and really anyone who wasn't Catholic/Anglican.

At secondary school there really wasn't any religion, we had a lot of Jewish students, CoEs and a few Muslims and Hindus and Catholics. The atmosphere of the school was very much secular, for instance once a month we had a religous assembly, you could choose from Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu or non-religous. The latter was by far the most popular. I guess at this point I really didn't go to church as regularly (my dad had kind of stopped bothering with Catholic mass every week and my mum never felt there was any point forcing it on us) and at the age of 16/17 I just realised I really didn't believe in God or Jesus. I really tried for a while, tried to talk to God when I prayed (I think of a few of the happy clappy stories about hearing God had stuck), read the bible every week for a period but I just didn't feel or hear anything and so I gave up. I quickly decided I was agnostic after this.

On to University where I've managed to end up at a college with about 50% christian student body (the college is only a small part of the University, I didn't really pick it on purpose) and I've met a lot more evangelical, happy-clappy Christians now. I've moved my position on a bit and I'd consider myself a sceptical Deist, I think there's some power that caused everything, some logos, but I don't know what it's like or if it's still here. My opinion of Christianity has improved somewhat now, I think there are nice people who are Christians and complete wankers who are Christians. My experience with Evangelical Christianity did a lot of harm to my view of the religion as a whole, it still does. I resent being told I'm going to go to hell or being forced to listen to some bastard talk about how Jesus told him he loved him.

Of the Christians I know now, a few of them are really nice, good people. I can't help liking them even if I don't share their faith or enjoy being woken up on a Sunday morning and asked if I want to go to church. However a friend of mine, studying Theology quite passionately, said if he ever saw any proof of God's existence while at University it was in the actions of some of our decidely non-religous friends. The Christians in college, apart from those few nice ones, never seem to do anything without the ulterior motive of conversion. One guy at college is somewhat bi-polar, he gets seriously depressed, after the first few months of University he got dumped by his long-term girlfriend and went through a few bad bouts. I'll admit that some of the christians spent time with him and did some nice things for him but never without mentioning how Jesus helped them or how He could help him or quoting the bible. I guess I find a lot of them seem to have nothing else to them other than christianity, they spend their time in bible study groups or hanging out with other christians, most of them don't bother talking to me anymore because I've made both the fact that I was raised a Catholic and my beliefs quite clear (as in I wanted to have a conversation with them about christianity, they're side never went much beyond "it's in the bible and it's all about faith.")

I'll make it clear that I know people good and bad, christian and non-christian and in my experience the proportion of good and bad people isn't effected much by whether they're christian or not, though the annoyance factor can be severely increased. I think my early exposure to Catholicism really hasn't effected my beliefs very much, although it has probably had quite a habit forming effect (not like heroin, more like 'I have a shower every morning' habit), I do actually go to church every now and again and I usually enjoy Catholic services. My dad's happy-clappy phase really did give me a dislike of evangelical style christianity, though I feel like many of the people who have been put off religion here that was due more to the people that I encountered in it than the beliefs they put forward (though I also didn't really know what their beliefs were, they were into talking in tongues and that crap for the record. Weirded my mum out and there were a few there that didn't like her at all because she couldn't be 'saved' from Catholiciism.

[Samwise]

My mother is very Catholic, so she made sure I went to Catholic schools all the way from K thru 12.  While I was in grade school she'd also make a point of bringing me to church every Sunday, generally against my will.  I was never very excited about Mass because it was almost 100% passive, and almost exactly the same from week to week.  I'd usually tune the priest out and read the missal to entertain myself (I liked reading the Bible passages because they were actually different each week).  The main thing I liked about Mass at that age was seeing my friends from school afterwards if they had happened to come to church at the same time I did.

As for the religion itself, I pretty much accepted it without question until the age of ten or so, at which point grade-school-level religious teachings didn't really do it for me any more, at which point I became fairly confused and agnostic - I knew that I didn't buy into the black-and-white watered-down version of Catholicism that they teach to five year olds, but I couldn't quite figure out what to replace it with.  I read up on Taoism a bit around that time and thought it sounded like a generally nice set of principles, but never got too serious about it.  I got Confirmed in eighth grade along with everyone else despite having some doubts about whether I wanted to make a lifelong commitment to a religion at that point - I still think that 13 is a bit young for it, but in retrospect I can't say it did any damage, and the whole process leading up to confirmation (classes and whatnot) was actually a pretty good experience.

When I was 14 I started going to a Jesuit high school.  Initially it seemed like going to a Catholic high school was going to be a lot like going to Catholic grade school, but I was surprised to find that my religion classes started to include critical thinking and discussion rather than being pure lecture; I particularly liked a class on morality that I took in which we discussed morality as something to be constructed logically from basic principles rather than read straight out of a book.  In addition, some of my classmates came from non-Catholic backgrounds, which hadn't been at all common in my grade school, and some of my classes also involved discussion of other religions, which helped to put Catholic teachings in some context.  I also noticed that the most dedicated Catholics among my classmates seemed to be the most politically liberal, which was a complete reversal from my experience in grade school and made much more sense to me.

My mother stopped dragging me to Mass at my grade school parish when I started high school, but I did end up going to a number of services at high school without prodding from her.  This was a radically different experience from Mass in grade school.  For one thing, rather than the church being filled with mostly strangers and one or two familiar faces, the Masses at my high school were attended and planned solely by students and faculty, so I more or less knew everyone there.

The major turning point for me, though, was the Kairos retreat we took in our senior year.  Without going too heavily into what exactly is involved in Kairos, I'll say that it helped to "gel" a lot of what I'd learned in religion classes up to that point, and I ended up making my peace with God after about seven years of being fairly disillusioned about the whole religion thing.

Unfortunately, after I graduated high school and moved away I never really found any sort of connection like that and ended up "lapsing" as a practicing Catholic - I haven't been to Mass in a few years, largely because going to Mass with a bunch of strangers feels completely empty compared to the experience I had in high school (and I have tried it, it's not even comparable).  And my naturally antisocial tendencies prevent me from putting forth the effort needed to go find a congregration I can connect with.  

If/when I have kids, I'll probably do more or less what my mother did with me and drag them to church.  Go figure.

[NowhereMan]

Also, I'm trying to come up with the idea of a solution. That is, a church that would be a more welcoming spirit to the world. What would this church look like? Who would belong? What would a church have to do to reach out to you, and let you know that they are pleased you are there without seeming agenda driven?

Sorry about that overly long post :/

About your post I'd say a large part of the problem I've seen is that for many of the christians I've met that I've disliked, they've seen themselves as Christian first and people second. Everything about their life seems to have to include being christian, whether it's going to church every sunday or having a group prayer before a football match. It's just struck me that this kind of attitude results in an automatic distinction between christians and non-christians, it may be part of a Christmas/Easter Catholic mind set but I don't see why everything in life must involve demonstrating your beliefs. I think a church that organised events for everyone, without talks about Jesus or prayers before having food, etc., would help establish that kind of community feeling you seem to want. Certainly keep the christian issue open, let people ask about it, hope people want to know more but telling people Jesus is that answer and he is the only way only attracts people who are looking for any answer.

[voodoolily]

Here's an atheist's attempt to help provide a solution:
It's kind of funny, but I found the charismatic service I went to (my grandparents' 50th anniversary/renewal of vows at their new church) was far more annoying then the fire-and-brimstone stuff from the Baptist church of my childhood. But the whole "the wages of sin is death" thing is pretty jarring. I think a good church should be taught by volunteers instead of money being involved (e.g., eliminate tithing), to eliminate that potential source of corruption. Members should be implored to open their hearts and homes to people that they think they should hate. A large contingent should focus on charity events, like joining Habitat for Humanity or something. The homeless should be allowed to use the church's address on job applications, even though it may be construed as dishonest. In other words, the church should strive to be Christlike to teach by example, not by threat of eternal retribution. There should be safe Q&A sessions after the service for teens (an I guess some adults) who have questions that may be construed as too blasphemist to ask. Teens who have questions should be granted confidentiality so that their church can be a haven (not the direct link to their parents).

[Morfiend]

I was brought up Agnostic. Both my parents attended very strict English (as in in the UK) boarding school. You know, the type where you dont get detention, you get a beating. And it really put them both off. They swore they would never  do some thing like that to me, and while I was growing up, they always explained that to me. I guess I am Agnostic also. I dont believe in the bible or any of the organized versions of god or religion. I do believe there is some thing more out there than Cells and Genes making us who we are in influincing what happens. I dont know. Thats how I feel.

As far as organized religion. Two of my best friends where brought up Mormon, so I ended up attending church with them a few times. Some times because I would spend the night and end up dragged to church on sunday morning. The other times I went was becuase there was a Mormon girl who I was really in to. Anyway. From my time spent in church I feel that a lot of the stuff "preached" is bs. I know Im not supposed to give opinions in this thread, but that was my feeling after listinging to the preacher. I know for a fact organized religion is not for me, and probably never will be. I do feel that while its not for me, some people need "direction" or a feeling of belonging or "some thing more". And church is great for those people. Also, I dont think any organized religion is "bad" or such. I really think the South Park episode hit the nail on the head about religion when they did the Mormon episode. In the end every one told them their where full of shit, and idiots. And they said "We might be, but we are very happy".

*shrug*

[Rasix]

I never went.  I was supposed to be Catholic my mom tells me.  I'd go when I would visit my grandmother in Flagstaff, but I always found the Catholic church stuff really, really boring.  The sermons could be entertaining, but the singing and ritual crap was just very tedius.  I think my parents intented us to go, but they asked me at age 6 (or was it 8, I know it was an even number age, just not 10) if I believed in God and I said "no".  I honestly believed in Santa Claus longer than God. So, naturally, my response to, "would you like to go to church" was the same answer.  I was a good kid, always had been, and thus they respected my decision for that.  My parents didn't force religion on any of their children.  My sister takes her kids to church (her husband is a very devout Christian), my brother believes in God but doesn't attend church (I think he's Christian, not sure), and I'm the lone godless heathen (my wife's favorite term for me).

Best Christians I've ever met.  Catholic priests, by far.  They had a great sense of humor and were very nice to me as a boy/young adult (please no innappropriate jokes).  They were old, goofy men that were fun to hang around and just had a great rapport with everyone.  When we woud visit my grandmother (she worked for the church and lived in the connected house), the head priest would take us on hikes, we'd go out to eat at the only decent restraunt in town, and he'd take to cool museums and the such.  He did all of this knowing full well we weren't good Catholics.  He really didn't care. I also liked his sermons.  They were always very relevant, uplifting, and well written.

Picking out the worst Christians I've ever met is a complete tie.  One day I was back from college visting my parents and a new video game like Diablo or Diablo 2 had just come out. So, it was kind of late and night and I drove to the local Comp USA to buy it.  I notice some teens pull up right before I did.  They look completely normal, in fact they looked like there were about to head to a party or something.  I go in and buy my game with it's demonic imagery all over the box, and then head out.  They strike up a normal conversation outside the store, and I play along until they bring up the J word.  As I roll my eyes, tell them goodbye and walk off, one of them yells, "don't you want to save your soul? Don't you care about how much Jesus loves you?" 

Another annoying Christian would have to be this girl I met before my freshman year of college.  We got along really well and she started dropping hints that she wanted to be more than friends, inviting me out to parties, etc.  One night she invites me out for a walk around campus, we have a nice long talk, then the topic of religion comes up.  I tell her I'm an atheist and she flips.  I think one of the last things she said to me was "Don't you see how much Jesus loves you? How can you just ignore that?"  It all made me want to vomit.

Really, I've never had a problem with Christians that call me a heathen or tell me that I'm probably going to hell.  I just have a problem with the ones that assume I haven't thought my stance through, and that I'm some sort of moron for not believing.