Vanguard Saga stuff at GU

[Merusk]

So since Sigil is working hard to stir-up good sentiment in the old EQ crowd, they've paid special attention to Woody and the GU crowd.  As a result, he just got a bunch of screenshots to share.

They're meant to be purely 'gameplay' screenshots, but damn I'm not impressed.  It looks like EQ2, from the model stylings down to the interface. It's obvious that some of the old Luclin modelersare doing the pose work. (That post is exactly how wood elf males sit in EQ.) From the way things look, they're deliving on their promise of EQ in the Kunark era, because from reading the little combat box, I'll be damned if the combat mechanics don't look the same.

I await the shock and awe when nobody buys. ;)

[HaemishM]

You sure those aren't gussied up screenshost of EQ1? Cos that's sure what it looks like to me.

Innovation --

[Mi_Tes]

The clouds were nicely done.  Other than that, it looks like the same "whackamole" game with too many boxes on the screen.  I don't understand why anyone would need to have "DEAD!" pop up - shouldn't you be able to tell if you have killed something by a death annimation instead?  Sadly, these screenies reinforce my lack of interest in this game.  Unless there is some "miracle build" coming, my guess would be this game tops out at less than 150,000 subs, most likely 75,000.

[Signe]

I like the DEAD pop-up. This way I know when to stop whacking the mob.  Your enemy could be pretending!

I hope there are signs with big red arrows pointing to the monsters, too.  I don't want to get lost, you know. 

 

[Merusk]

The clouds were nicely done.  Other than that, it looks like the same "whackamole" game with too many boxes on the screen.  I don't understand why anyone would need to have "DEAD!" pop up - shouldn't you be able to tell if you have killed something by a death annimation instead?  Sadly, these screenies reinforce my lack of interest in this game.  Unless there is some "miracle build" coming, my guess would be this game tops out at less than 150,000 subs, most likely 75,000.

Probably several miracle builds to come.  These are from the "friends & family" beta, or Beta0.  The 'dead' popup is because they don't have animations done yet I would think.  (At least the news blurb at GU says 'keep in mind the animations aren't done yet.'

[Nebu]

I'm waiting for someone to post an image of a treadmill.  It's what I envision Vanguard will be most like.

[Pococurante]

IMO visual immersion all about the terrain.  I want to wade through tall grass, watch branches part around me, etc.

Without that level of detail the texture on the mob does little for me.

[Soln]

IMO visual immersion all about the terrain.  I want to wade through tall grass, watch branches part around me, etc.

Without that level of detail the texture on the mob does little for me.

Agree, but they may have foliage "turned down" for early testing?   Or "off"?  To me this looks identical to DAoC circa 2002/SI expansion.  Dunno about EQ.  Presumably it will get better.  Otherwise, graphics dont always make the game (I'm getting used to WoW) but they sure as shit help.  If the game isn't fast-paced a la WoW it needs some other hook, and eye candy a la SWG helps distract players from the small circular wheel they are running within and the anemic game play.

[Fargull]

I'm waiting for someone to post an image of a treadmill.  It's what I envision Vanguard will be most like.

That will be the xp bar.  They are going with a graphic of a gerbal running on a treadmill aiming for a dangling peice of food.

[Nija]

http://www.gucomics.com/images/vsoh_beta/beta0_2_11.jpg

PERSISTED CHARACTER!

Guys, updating the client of a character save is too immersion breaking. We need to come up with something else.

[shiznitz]

That first screenshot made me immediately think of Frontier Mountains in Kunark.

I would also love to see a game get away from that mob naming convention:

A Gawtak sentry
A Gawtak shaman
A Gawtak lieutenant
A Gawtak captain
A Gawtak porn star
King Gawtak with uber loots!

[AcidCat]

The screens are definitely underwhelming. Early build, yadda yadda. This is a game I try to remain interested in despite all signs pointing somewhere I really don't want to go.

[Yegolev]

They didn't see McQuaid stuffing all of those floppies into his backpack when cleaning out his SOE office?

[Miasma]

I like that they are so deep in bed with Microsoft that all of those screens have this awful START button in the lower left, mimicking the OS.  That's encouraging.

[schild]

Would it be wrong of me to say that's one of the worst looking games I've ever seen?

[shiznitz]

Would it be wrong of me to say that's one of the worst looking games I've ever seen?

Yes, but your hyperbole is appreciated. Horizons was worse.

[schild]

Horizons really wasn't. I appreciated the scale of things there. The 80 foot trees all over most MMORPGs grate on me - particularly in WoW. Cuz it makes my character feel really tiny and travel seems unbearable. There's a different between epic and huge. Horizons was at least something close to what I'd consider acceptable. The game however, was total ass.

[Alkiera]

The thing that bothers me was that there were 3 people fighting one of these lizard guys.  Then 3 people fighting one 'small glade spiderling'... which was shoulder-high on the fighters.  How big is a full sized glade spider, then?

Still, groups attacking single mobs?  I did that for 5+ years.  I don't plan on doing it again.

And that UI looks almost exactly like the current EQLive UI, aside from the inventory.  The combat spam could very well be from that game.

Blah.  Not interested.

Alkiera

[Soukyan]

Did everyone miss it but me?

The wood elf is sitting.

Bzzt! Wrong! No game for j00!

Since the character is sitting, it can most certainly be assumed (with a fairly good probability of being right) that downtime will be just as huge as EQ, possibly longer. Sure, the EQ treadmill sucked, but what sucked more was the ridiculous amount of time your avatar was on-screen mimicking what you were doing in front of your PC. SITTING.


And the gameplay does look strikingly EQ-esque. Which begs the question, why leave EQ for Vanguard? Thpse who left EQ probably don't want to go back to it or anything like it and those who are still there most likely aren't going to want to start a new game where they can't twink out their new characters and burn through the low levels to get to the (ever popular) "end game".

Did anyone else notice the "adv. experience" bar in the first screenshot? I haven't read up on the game so I'm guessing crafting exp. is separate?

*boggle*

[schild]

Seriously, they need to cancel this fucking game. Fucking fuckity fuck fuck waste of fucking money fuck.

I'd rather play Imperator.

[Soukyan]

The thing that bothers me was that there were 3 people fighting one of these lizard guys.  Then 3 people fighting one 'small glade spiderling'... which was shoulder-high on the fighters.  How big is a full sized glade spider, then?

Still, groups attacking single mobs?  I did that for 5+ years.  I don't plan on doing it again.

And that UI looks almost exactly like the current EQLive UI, aside from the inventory.  The combat spam could very well be from that game.

Blah.  Not interested.

Alkiera

/totallyagree

CoH spoiled me and made me feel heroic by allowing me to actually fight and win against multiple enemy mobs. I'm not saying CoH didn't have it's own issues, but they certainly made you feel like the hero immediately instead of doing the same old D&D paradigm of weak adventurer to start and powerful demi-god when you reach the end... some prescribed number of hours later. ;)

[Yegolev]

Would it be wrong of me to say that's one of the worst looking games I've ever seen?

Yes, but your hyperbole is appreciated. Horizons was worse.

I'm going to have to side with schild, or however he spells his name.  Horizons looks (it's still up) better than many other games, including EQ2.  I liked the interface better than WoW, but I'm a button whore.  As for gameplay....

[Alkiera]

I did see that alt-advancement bar.

Frankly, I think alt-advancement should have been across the level range in EQ1, instead of starting at 51.  Have the alt-adv requirements scale with the normal exp bar, or some such, and have there be low level adv. things, and higher level ones, a la the power pools in CoH.  Or have the exp for one AA point be achievable for a lower character, and just crank up the prices for the higher level abilities.

But as to the general sentiment that this game looks just like EQ1... I agree completely.  It's EQ1 with tree debuffs.

Alkiera

[Daydreamer]

Am I the only person who though "DAoC 2.0" when I saw those screenies?

As high detail as the game appears to be, if they give every set of regular chain armor from 5-50 the same graphic, and have the same whack a foozle gameplay, I'll pass and stick with WoW thanks.  Say what you will about WoW but A) there is never a shortage of eye candy and B) they actively give you reasons to explore and whack different foozles.

[Merusk]

Did everyone miss it but me?

The wood elf is sitting.

Bzzt! Wrong! No game for j00!

Since the character is sitting, it can most certainly be assumed (with a fairly good probability of being right) that downtime will be just as huge as EQ, possibly longer. Sure, the EQ treadmill sucked, but what sucked more was the ridiculous amount of time your avatar was on-screen mimicking what you were doing in front of your PC. SITTING.

That's been my complaint for years.  Everyone seems all ga-ga over 'OOh EQ Kunark with new graphics." but any time I've mentioned that includes the asinine downtime and stupid travel times all I get is the message board equivalent of blank stares.  They've explicitly stated there will be no instant travel.  If you're on one side of the world and your buddy who gets on 2 hours earlier is on the other, guess what you spend the next 45+ minutes doing.  They're not even going to have the quasi-instant travel of WOW's gryphons.. you, yourself, sitting at your machine will run that avatar for the required amount of time.  It's bullshit in this day and age.

Then, on top of that they've implicitly stated that it will be a grind-a-thon. Hell, their FAQ seems to only underscore this idea.  Specifically:

 

18.1.19 Many MMOG’s today have been made easier, with less down time, lower risks, easy travel, etc. Do you think you will be able to recapture the sense of adventure and challenge that many of us are missing in our games today?

    We're going to try, that's for sure -- and I think we can do it. While we all want fame, glory, money, etc., just as anyone else, we want MORESO to make the game we want to make, and a game that we're fairly sure a bunch of players will enjoy.

    I guess, bottom line, is that if we make a game we love, and for a group of people that we've already made a game for in the past that will hopefully enjoy the new game as well, and it garners a 'mere' 400,000 or so subs... well, that would make us MUCH happier than going for the 'accessible' million-plus subscriber game, compromising what we feel is a fun and challenging game, and simultaneously taking a huge risk that we might only get 50,000 subs.

Honestly, he's looking to meet & beat EQ1's numbers. Hrm.. here's a new bit, too, that shows he believes, fully and completly, that what people really want is, "more grind, bitch!"

[bi]18.2.3 What are your thoughts on the changes in EverQuest that have made the game easier? While some argue that they have made the game more player-friendly, others seem to feel they have “dumbed down” the gameplay.[/b]

    What's interesting to me is that the original EverQuest 'vision' is often labeled as 'hard core', even by those who enjoy that style more.

    Forgive me in advance here for playing numbers... especially because there are a LOT of factors involved with subscriptions... the age of the game, what else is out there, player burn-out, etc.

    But I do have to say that the game got to over 400,000 subs under the 'old school hard-core make-the-game-challenging' regime. In fact, I think it was fairly close to the 430,000 or so that seems to be the number that, when talked about at all, the game seems to be 'holding' at... and for quite some time.

    Then I also look at the subs of games that are 'less hard-core'...

    It's ironic I think that changes to MMOGs since 'original' EverQuest in an attempt to reach out to more people, to make the games more accessible, etc., have subs much smaller.

    Sure, I know... there are a lot of other factors... my main point is that I wonder if the 'hard core' are really the 'hard core' or whether they're simply the players who play and enjoy MMOGs the most.

My god, the more I read the crazier I get.  I'm at about Haemish's level of SB.EXE frustration, so I'm going to post 2 more comments then go have a beer or do something *gasp* fun.

18.4.4 Should level progression be fast or slow?

    Progression should be challenging and rewarding, and therefore certainly take time, that doesn't mean it should feel slow. In other words, more, smaller rewards, more often, could work. Even if the game was designed to take the average player 2 years to max out, or see it all, there ought to be lots of rewards, new items, new skills, etc. 'unlocked' en route.

18.4.11 Should there be some compensation that would benefit players that are not able to invest as many hours in a game?

    I'm against anything that, in effect, punishes a player for wanting to play the game more. The whole point of making a compelling game, book, movie, etc. is to bring players into that immersive setting they never want to leave... isn't a good book one that you don't want to put down, and you suddenly realize it's 3am in the morning?

    That's entertainment.

    Allowing (or even encouraging) a player to enter into a situation where he is disincentivized to play more (or, worse yet, incentivized to figure out a way around it... the hard core powergamer, I imagine, would have multiple characters and/or accounts and just make sure he was playing whichever character who was in his 'power hour') seems like the antithesis of good entertainment.

[Yegolev]

Time to stab.

[Raguel]

I'm not a Vanguard fanboy (although I sometimes post on the official site, I dont have any interest in playing the game) I think it will get 200+k subs. I wouldn't be surprised if they did hit 400k.  Having said that, I hope to god someone comes out with a fantasy mmo that doesn't revolve around levels and loot, but that seems as unlikely now as it did  2 years ago.

[schild]

I want someone to make an architecture/treasure hunt MMOG. But I hereby declare MMOG designers are not creative. They are as formulaic as Rowling or Brown. There is no D.B. Weiss, Stephenson, Carr or Palahniuk designing MMOGs. Discuss.

[Strazos]

Unfortunately, most of today's MMO players are not what we would call..."cultured." They're the kind of people who still eat up the derivitive EQ-Diku Mud nonsense we still have in EQ2 and WoW.

Do something different MMO Devs, plzkthx.

[stray]

I like the DEAD pop-up. This way I know when to stop whacking the mob.  Your enemy could be pretending!

You've played one too many muds. I'm afraid that there's little hope left for you.

You don't like twitch either, do you? 

[MaceVanHoffen]

Who cares about graphics?  I still play the old NES Metroid on my PC for crying out loud.  Gameplay > all.

The real test of this game's similarity to EQ will be if that same glade spiderling can kick a level 50's arse.  'Cause, you know, I love putting in thousands of hours sitting both virtually and physically just so I can have my testicles handed to me by 1 solo green mob which no longer gives me xp but which also will chase me all the way across a freaking zone.  Yay.

All I need to hear is that Brad "I make games for uberguilds" McQuaid is involved to know I'll never play this game.

[stray]

I want someone to make an architecture/treasure hunt MMOG. But I hereby declare MMOG designers are not creative. They are as formulaic as Rowling or Brown. There is no D.B. Weiss, Stephenson, Carr or Palahniuk designing MMOGs. Discuss.

There is still hope for Raph. 

*Look ma, no green text*

[Trippy]

I didn't think it was possible for an MMORPG to have less artistic style than EQ II but somehow, someway, Sigil has managed to do that. At least the female faces look okay, unlike EQ II.

http://www.gucomics.com/images/vsoh_beta/beta0_2_8.jpg

[schild]

Gameplay > all.

Ironically, when I think of gameplay I think of player skill in either strategy or twitch. Sadly, not a single MMORPG fits that bill. Not a one. Yes, there are pretty shallow arguments that could blast a wall through that opinion, but really I'm not impressed with people who catass to the best items, have a maxed out spreadsheet toon and know when to hit hot keys at the right time and how to run a given instance. If I was going to spend that much time learning something about an online game that is only New and Interesting Once, I'd rather read a book. But BUT BUT I love the idea of a virtual world. Unfortunately they're more like Earth than anywhere else. Why can't we have the imaginative people at Nippon Ichi or From or Gust or Q? make a decent virtual world? Do we really deserve boring shitty things? Or are MMORPG designers that unfuckingoriginal? Or do I blame the publishers for not liking creativity. Fuck EQII and Vanguard in it's normal mapping ass and fuck World of Warcraft in it's five steps backward ass.

Or simply, more of this:


and


and less of this:


And even LESS of this:


Fuck hotkeys have gotten boring. Really, someone just needs to step up and take the console MMORPG market by the horns and do it right. The first time. Final Fantasy XI sooooooooooooo doesn't count. Me Wanty Huxley. Now.

[stray]

[edit] Shit. I'm not paying attention.