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Author Topic: Hot Coffee, Rockstar & the ESRB.  (Read 46099 times)
NowhereMan
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Reply #175 on: July 23, 2005, 09:00:46 AM

I'm not trying to equate GTASA with art or anything.

Why on earth not?  (No irony intended - I think GTA is pretty damn artistic.)

Primarily because I didn't want to get bogged down into an argument about GTA not being art and therefore entirely different from classical nudes. I haven't played San Andreas but I've played the other GTAs and tbh I think they're great fun with a lot of violence thrown in for shock value. Don't get me wrong, I think they're fun games and it is kind of cool to play the bad guy (thought generally not the baddest guy) but I don't think that is enough to make them art. I very much doubt there's some attempt to make a comment on people's preconceptions of right and wrong or what is or is not acceptable. If that were the case they could have stopped with the first one.

"Look at my car. Do you think that was bought with the earnest love of geeks?" - HaemishM
Llava
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Reply #176 on: July 23, 2005, 02:06:21 PM

People from EA have stated - correctly as far as I know - that the Sims/Sims 2 attacks are without basis in reality, and that nude sims are as featureless as Ken and Barbie. I guess he took a wild guess and jumped on it. Another sad example of foot-in-mouth disease, plz put him out of his misery.

He probably just assumed that when you give birth to one of these little digital people, they come out anatomically correct.  I mean, how else would there be so many of them?

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
Murgos
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Reply #177 on: July 24, 2005, 07:46:56 AM

I'm sure there is some mod some where that paints genitalia onto the image used for the sims skins.  Good luck getting that in front of a judge with EA's legal team poking you in the eye with thier engorged phalluses.

EA's response is the correct one, "We have no fucking idea what your talking about."

"You have all recieved youre last warning. I am in the process of currently tracking all of youre ips and pinging your home adressess. you should not have commencemed a war with me" - Aaron Rayburn
Samwise
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Reply #178 on: July 24, 2005, 11:52:26 AM

I really think EA should sue this guy for trying to damage their business with malicious and false claims about their game's content.  It might help deter others from spouting off about how Doom is a rape simulator or whatever.
Samwise
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Reply #179 on: July 24, 2005, 02:34:26 PM

Daydreamer
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Reply #180 on: July 25, 2005, 03:34:34 AM

I'd say the difference is one-fold; that going after the NFL for sex and violence is a political third-rail.  No politician would survive the experience. 

More or less what I was trying to argue condensed into 2 sentences. Well put and I concur.

But I'm not running for office, and I'm not a crank, I'm just a cranky middle-aged guy, who is sick of this political game.  The emporer has no clothes, and I think game advocates are wrong to play along with the lie that he does.  Americans are sufficently cynical to recognize why a group like the NFL gets a pass and games get the heat, and it does us no favors to play along with the big boys.  Comics proved that self-ghettoizing is a mistake, and we shouldn't repeat that mistake.

Here I have to disagree.  The political process in this regard is indeed screwed, and I agree that we shouldn't follow comics down their path, but I think we do have to play ball at least a little.  We have make the appropriate noises and frown at Rockstar and pray for a political storm, because I don't think most Americans can see past games as violent sexploitation, past the 60 billion dollar (or whatever)  industry schitck, because if Hiliary Clinton decides our subjugation will make her trip to the White House easier she will most certainly do it.  And if a little whoring on our part as gamers and game developers is the price we have to pay to do as we please, then so be it - I do not want to see the day where I have to buy a censored whoreless non-violent GTA sequel in a brown paper bag from behind the counter, while the cute female cashier treats me like a leper.  I hate politics, but I love my violent blood-drench titty-charged virtual crime sprees more.

Immaginative Immersion Games  ... These are your role playing games, adventure games, the same escapist pleasure that we get from films and page-turner novels and schizophrenia. - David Wong at PointlessWasteOfTime.com
Ironwood
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Reply #181 on: July 25, 2005, 04:03:23 AM

I do not want to see the day where I have to buy a censored whoreless non-violent GTA sequel in a brown paper bag from behind the counter, while the cute female cashier treats me like a leper. 

So, you want a working digital distribution model then.


Ooops, I dropped my can of worms.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Bunk
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Reply #182 on: July 25, 2005, 08:22:04 AM

Quote from: Gamespot
Sims 2 content "worse than Hot Coffee"

Miami attorney Jack Thompson claims cheat codes makes EA's life sim a pedophile's paradise by showing genitalia; calls for ban on

snip

Thompson is on a roll--and he's not done yet. His latest goat is a game that doesn't involve guns, carjacking, or prostitutes. He's going after Electronic Arts' The Sims 2.

In a manifesto sent today to press outlets, Thompson focuses on dismantling the Entertainment Software Rating Board and exposing what he calls the industry's "latest dirty little secret." The secret's out now, and it involves nude Sims.

In the statement, Thompson says, "Sims 2, the latest version of the Sims video game franchise... contains, according to video game news sites, full frontal nudity, including nipples, penises, labia, and pubic hair."

The Sims 2 is a "life simulator." In the game, players steer their digital beings around their cyber lives. The actions include everything from the spectacular (getting married, having children, promotions at work) to the mundane (cooking microwaved meals, going to the bathroom, mopping the floor). Such activities, as in real life, sometimes require nudity. EA circumvents inappropriateness by "blurring" out the nether regions, almost to a comical sense.

Thompson doesn't seem to care. He cites a cheat code that can remove the blur which covers nudity. "The nudity placed there by the publisher/maker, Electronic Arts, is accessed by the use of a simple code that removes what is called “the blur” which obscures the genital areas. In other words, the game was released to the public by the manufacturer knowing that the full frontal nudity was resident on the game and would be accessed by use of a simple code widely provided on the Internet."

It's not just the adults that are liberated from their wardrobe. Sims kids can also be nudified, "much to the delight, one can be sure, of pedophiles around the globe who can rehearse, in virtual reality, for their abuse."

Were this to be true, Thompson would have his smoking gun, and EA would be forced to recall all copies of the Sims 2. However, it's what's under the blur that Thompson's after, and what happens when the blur is lifted? A simple mannequin-esque smooth body, according to EA.

Jeff Brown, vice president of corporate communications at EA, in response to the accusations, told GameSpot, "This is nonsense. We've reviewed 100 percent of the content. There is no content inappropriate for a teen audience. Players never see a nude Sim. If someone with an extreme amount of expertise and time were to remove the pixels, they would see that the Sims have no genitals. They appear like Ken and Barbie."

Thompson doesn't buy it. "The sex and the nudity are in the game. That's the point. The blur is an admission that even the 'Ken and Barbie' features should not be displayed. The blur can be disarmed. This is no different than what is in San Andreas, although worse."

The last time we checked, the Sims 2 is rated T for teen by the ESRB, which means that anyone 13-years of age with $50 can purchase the title.

By Tim Surette -- GameSpot
POSTED: 07/22/05 12:06 PM PST

It's only going to get worse from here.

What a fucking cockmucher. God this guy pisses me off. This is one of those cases where EA should sue his ass off for writing this shit.  Being somewhat of an expert on the stupid game (sad, i know), there is absolutely no inappropriate content in that game, or unlockable in that game. I'm surprised this assmunch didn't go on to a tirade about how inaproriate it is since you can have two people of the same gender kiss in it.

Are there mods out there that would give the sims genitalia? Sure there are. Does EA have anything to do with said mods? No. Hell, EA didn't even release mod tools for manipulating models, those had to be written from scratch by the modding community.

Any game that that uses humanoid models can be remodeled or reskinned to have big honking penises. Whee!  Lets just ban any depiction of humans in games, since it might be used to harm the kiddies.

"Welcome to the internet, pussy." - VDL
"I have retard strength." - Schild
Murgos
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Reply #183 on: July 25, 2005, 08:30:02 AM

Quote
This is no different than what is in San Andreas, although worse."

Heh.  It's etiher no different or it's worse make up your mind please.

"You have all recieved youre last warning. I am in the process of currently tracking all of youre ips and pinging your home adressess. you should not have commencemed a war with me" - Aaron Rayburn
Merusk
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Reply #184 on: July 28, 2005, 03:45:43 AM

The Plot Thickens, grandmother sues over sex scenes.
Quote
Woman sues Rockstar over sex scenes

My poor grandson

By Nick Farrell: Thursday 28 July 2005, 09:04
AN 85 year old grandmother is suing Rockstar games after she discovered the version of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas contained hidden, sexually explicit scenes.

Apparently Florence Cohen bought the game for her 14 year old grandson because it was rated M "for mature" not adults only. The Entertainment Software Ratings Board changed the ranking to Adults Only after a mod was developed which opened up a sex scene sequences.

When Flo discovered this she ordered that the game be taken away from her grandson, who we are sure was grateful for his gran’s intervention.

Cohen sought unspecified damages on behalf of herself and all consumers nationwide, saying the company should give up its profits from the game for what amounted to false advertising, consumer deception and unfair business practices.

Her brief, Laurence Paskowitz, said no parent would knowingly buy an adult-only video game for their children.

He said that Rockstar should really make sure this doesn't happen again and at least offer refunds.

Ironically, even if her grandson had managed to run the mod, the sex scenes are the only legal act in the game, which includes shooting anything that moves and stealing cars. But according to the New York Daily News, Flo comes from the Bronx so perhaps she find that normal

Of course, with all the sharks in the water, it was only a matter of time.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Samprimary
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Reply #185 on: July 28, 2005, 03:48:08 AM

Quote
The creator of the game, Rockstar Games, has stated that it will offer a downloadable patch to fix the sex issue in the PC versions, and is working on a new version of the game that will prevent this content from being unlocked in the future.

Thank God. I'll be the first person to download and patch my PC version of "Grand Theft Auto." I want to shoot people in the face, bang prostitutes, traffic drugs, steal cars, and terrorize police officers without this filthy smut in my game. Frankly, I'm appalled that Rockstar would allow such wholesale corruption of our youth. Years from now when America has become a withered husk of the morality it once stood for, historians will look back at what triggered it all and point to one event: a boolean variable that unlocked a simulated sex scene in a video game.


I do like Maddox, I do.
Murgos
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Reply #186 on: July 28, 2005, 05:48:34 AM

Ironically, even if her grandson had managed to run the mod, the sex scenes are the only legal act in the game, which includes shooting anything that moves and stealing cars.

Heh. The kid is 14 and lives in the Bronx, seriously, how much innocence could he have had in the first place?

"You have all recieved youre last warning. I am in the process of currently tracking all of youre ips and pinging your home adressess. you should not have commencemed a war with me" - Aaron Rayburn
Evangolis
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Reply #187 on: July 28, 2005, 07:11:29 AM

Here I have to disagree.  The political process in this regard is indeed screwed, and I agree that we shouldn't follow comics down their path, but I think we do have to play ball at least a little.  ...

I don’t think we should back down at all.  Rockstar made a mistake, for which the ESRB punished them.  Rockstar and Take Two have been severely punished by the marketplace, to a degree far exceeding Sony BMG’s punishment for their deliberate payola violations.  For games, the system has in fact worked correctly, and properly addressed a problem that could only happen if the end-user was complicit in its occurrence.  Why should more action be needed?

In fact, I think the games industry should do a little grass roots counter-action.  I think that it would be good if there were a few web-based flash games (E-rated) made satirizing some of our noble lawmakers.  We should extract a political cost for what is political grandstanding, not public policy.

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Daeven
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Reply #188 on: July 28, 2005, 07:48:59 AM

Quote from: Merusk
Apparently Florence Cohen bought the game for her 14 year old grandson because it was rated M "for mature" not adults only.
*Head explodes*

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Reply #189 on: July 28, 2005, 08:49:49 AM

The Plot Thickens, grandmother sues over sex scenes.
Quote
Woman sues Rockstar over sex scenes

My poor grandson

By Nick Farrell: Thursday 28 July 2005, 09:04
AN 85 year old grandmother is suing Rockstar games after she discovered the version of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas contained hidden, sexually explicit scenes.

Apparently Florence Cohen bought the game for her 14 year old grandson because it was rated M "for mature" not adults only. The Entertainment Software Ratings Board changed the ranking to Adults Only after a mod was developed which opened up a sex scene sequences.

When Flo discovered this she ordered that the game be taken away from her grandson, who we are sure was grateful for his gran’s intervention.

Cohen sought unspecified damages on behalf of herself and all consumers nationwide, saying the company should give up its profits from the game for what amounted to false advertising, consumer deception and unfair business practices.

Her brief, Laurence Paskowitz, said no parent would knowingly buy an adult-only video game for their children.

He said that Rockstar should really make sure this doesn't happen again and at least offer refunds.

Ironically, even if her grandson had managed to run the mod, the sex scenes are the only legal act in the game, which includes shooting anything that moves and stealing cars. But according to the New York Daily News, Flo comes from the Bronx so perhaps she find that normal

Of course, with all the sharks in the water, it was only a matter of time.

FUCK COCK SHITSTAINED RATBAG BALLLICKING FESTERING CUNTHAIR DOUCHEBAGS

MrHat
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Reply #190 on: July 28, 2005, 01:43:04 PM

Haha.

You even have to COURT the lady to get to that point.
Samwise
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Reply #191 on: July 31, 2005, 06:14:25 PM

Apparently as soon as the rating change was announced, every store that had the newly-AO version of San Andreas in stock sold out nearly instantly.  It'll be pretty scarce to come by until the decaf version comes out.
Ironwood
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Reply #192 on: August 01, 2005, 04:07:34 AM

No such thing as bad publicity.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Abel
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Reply #193 on: August 01, 2005, 06:20:52 AM

This reminds me when the first GTA got a +18 rating in the UK, which also was predicted to limit their sales.

As a result Rock star cleverly build their UK marketing campaign on the very fact that the game got a "cool" +18 rating.

Subsequently it became a big seller in the UK ...

The most popular GTA3:SA patch will be the soon-to-be-released unofficial one that patches the "hot coffee" nudity into the new M-rated version, instead of the one that's going to clean up the banned M-rated version.
Pococurante
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Reply #194 on: August 01, 2005, 08:38:12 AM

mission accomplished  rolleyes
Trippy
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Reply #195 on: August 01, 2005, 06:35:04 PM

No such thing as bad publicity.
It's going to cost Take Two around $40-$50 million to handle the returns of GTA:SA and their stock took a couple of hits when they announced lower expectations for the year because of the costs and estimated loss of sales involved and then again when the FTC announced they were investigating TT though the stock has recovered somewhat from those drops.
Sky
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Reply #196 on: August 02, 2005, 07:11:22 AM

Is it wrong for me to risk the wrath of my girlfriend by always asking her up to my apartment with "Hey baby, want to come up for some HOT COFFEE??"

Because I do ;)
Roac
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Reply #197 on: August 02, 2005, 08:46:58 AM

Is it wrong for me to risk the wrath of my girlfriend by always asking her up to my apartment with "Hey baby, want to come up for some HOT COFFEE??"

Because I do ;)

Button mashing ftw.

-Roac
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Samwise
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Reply #198 on: August 02, 2005, 09:39:46 AM

Button mashing only works at the gym.  And when bicycling.
Sky
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Reply #199 on: August 02, 2005, 11:49:50 AM

You shouldn't really mash the button before she's ready, anyway. Too much.

She does enjoy some of the combo moves, though.
Samwise
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Reply #200 on: August 03, 2005, 07:04:03 PM

Paelos
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Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #201 on: August 03, 2005, 08:23:22 PM


CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
HaemishM
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Reply #202 on: August 04, 2005, 08:10:46 AM

Look at the goddamn box. What a fucking concept.

The ESRB is failing at its job miserably, and the industry has only itself to blame for publicity-hungry politicians who've never played Pac-Man, much less GTA, trying to shut the industry down, or fuck it into a corner. Those kinds of posters should be on every game store wall. But that might take up precious shelf space from EA, precious shelf space used to stuff another 40 units of Madden 2006 into 6 square inches. The retailers are taking none of the blame or the bad publicity for this either, and that's because the game companies are either too greedy (EA) or too wussy to tell them to stop being douchebags.

Of course, parents could have averted all of this by actually being fucking responsible for their kids, and not blaming their kids faults on video games (or movies, or books, or comic books, or Internet pr0n), but that's a fucking fantasy land in America, where personal responsibility is a four-letter word with an AO rating.

Yegolev
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Reply #203 on: August 04, 2005, 08:32:42 AM

Great article.  Really.

People like to hate on EA, but I submit that if EA published GTA instead of Take 2, there would be some serious boom-lowering at your local EB, assuming that EA wasn't able to pay off/intimidate the ESRB in the first place.  EA is the closest thing to a real corporate machine in the gaming industry, and that is basically the sort of dick-swinging giant we need on our side when the Congressional hearings start.  Lesser of two evils, indeed.

EDIT: I recently decided that the cute rating symbols should be replaced with an numeral that indicates the age group.  First off it would escape the "NC-17" stigma that an "AO" symbol brings, and second it would leave less room for ignorance-as-a-defense asshats.  0+, 5+, 13+, 18+, how easy is that shit?  Damn committees.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2005, 08:35:46 AM by Yegolev »

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Samwise
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Reply #204 on: August 04, 2005, 08:49:53 AM

0+, 5+, 13+, 18+, how easy is that shit?

OMG MATH IS HARD THOUGH!

The current M rating symbol does have "17+" right there next to the M, but people still seem to have problems with that.  Really, it needs color.  No other way around it.
Yegolev
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Reply #205 on: August 04, 2005, 09:02:15 AM

0+
7+
13+
18+

No letters, just a list of reasons like what we already have below the numbers.  Put big posters in the retail outlets.  Not that they do this for DVDs.  Anyone who claims ignorance after that, we can emboss these ratings on a baseball bat and club them to death with it.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
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HaemishM
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Reply #206 on: August 04, 2005, 09:28:32 AM

Fuck it. For the M rating, just put a gigantic sticker of Satan on the front of the box, obscuring most of the artwork. Just a big honking Lucifer, maybe impaling a sinner or something. Maybe that'll be clear enough.

And for AO, just paste a giant fucking cock all over it.

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Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #207 on: August 04, 2005, 09:33:59 AM

Fuck it. For the M rating, just put a gigantic sticker of Satan on the front of the box, obscuring most of the artwork. Just a big honking Lucifer, maybe impaling a sinner or something. Maybe that'll be clear enough.

And for AO, just paste a giant fucking cock all over it.

That's very Fight Club of you.

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Reply #208 on: August 04, 2005, 09:38:53 AM

And that's why we don't talk about AO rated games.
Merusk
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Reply #209 on: August 04, 2005, 09:47:29 AM


I think I'm going to print that out, put it on some board and go paste it in the loacal BB, Target and Wal*Mart this weekend. 

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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