Big Screen TV recommendations...

[Xilren's Twin]

Well, one thing I received this Father's day was the homemade "go get a big screen TV" card.  (I suspect my kids view this as a gift they would love to have in the house anyway, but bless the little buggers none the less).

Knowing their are several resident TV techonphiles herebouts (hi Sky!), Im open to any and all suggestions as I begin my comparative shopping extravaganza!  Throw in your two cents, recommend a TV that will make me rearrange my living room!  Price is no object....well, scratch that, Im not dropping 10 grand on a tv, but I'll listen to almost anything.

Xilren

[Viin]

I know I've said it in other threads, but I think the new Samsung DLP TV's are the way to go.

Samsungs website: http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_subtype.jsp?eUser=&prod_path=%2fAudio+and+Video%2fTV%2fDLP+TV

Avs Forum's discussion on the Samsung DLP TVs: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=493443

But, there's tons of options out there. Check avsforum.com for lots of opinions.

Personally, I like the DLP TV's because they are a) a good size, b) don't weigh a ton, c) have great contrast ratios (now), d) support all kinds of connections.. and my personal favorite: e) won't break the bank (as cheap as $2700 for the new DLP tech!).

I'm waiting for the HLR5668W and it's 10,000:1 contrast ratio, $3,999 for the 50". (Spec sheet)

[schild]

What's your sound system like? What's the dimensions of the room?

If you're gonna do it, do it right. Answer my questions, I shant steer you the wrong way, grasshopper.

[Xilren's Twin]

What's your sound system like? What's the dimensions of the room?

If you're gonna do it, do it right. Answer my questions, I shant steer you the wrong way, grasshopper.

Room is approx 24'x18', prehaps a little larger.  Surround sound is something i will be adding along with this.

Xilren

[schild]

For gaming or not for gaming?

[MrHat]

For gaming or not for gaming?

Why do you even ask that question?

[schild]

For gaming or not for gaming?

Why do you even ask that question?

Because you don't game on a rear projection screen. Not only does it look bad, it's supposedly a factor in "burn-in" even though I'm quite sure they've managed to work out that kink. I'm just asking him all the questions I'd ask anyone when they're buying a new TV. I know when I bought my front projector back in my sophomore year of college, I didn't plan on gaming with it. In fact, I didn't start gaming on it until my senior year.

Oh, and welcome back :). (Edit: As in, it's nice to see you taking time out from being HAMMERED in Germany to post  )

[MrHat]

For gaming or not for gaming?

Why do you even ask that question?

Because you don't game on a rear projection screen. Not only does it look bad, it's supposedly a factor in "burn-in" even though I'm quite sure they've managed to work out that kink. I'm just asking him all the questions I'd ask anyone when they're buying a new TV. I know when I bought my front projector back in my sophomore year of college, I didn't plan on gaming with it. In fact, I didn't start gaming on it until my senior year.

Oh, and welcome back :). (Edit: As in, it's nice to see you taking time out from being HAMMERED in Germany to post  )

Hehe, sorta, just have a few days vacation from my vacation at my fiancee's cousin's house in a little town in Germany.  Will be back in July to move to Baltimore.

Yeaaaaaa packed Summers of travel!

Oh, and to bring it back, I was looking for a new tv for our move and we settled on the newer generation of the Samsung Sky keeps raving about.  They had new technology in the color wheel or something.  Price was right ~3k for 56"

[Xilren's Twin]

For gaming or not for gaming?

Oddly enough... yes

Xilren

[Sky]

Because you don't game on a rear projection screen. Not only does it look bad, it's supposedly a factor in "burn-in" even though I'm quite sure they've managed to work out that kink

There is no burn-in with DLP, and it's marginal with other display techs (LCD, Plasma), the worst is CRT, which has the highest overall image quality, but with so many downsides it's not worth it (convergence, weight, smaller size).

I, of course, recommend the Samsung DLPs. For that room, you definitely want the big kahuna like mine, and it won't break the bank (well, compared to plasma, anyway). The 61" model. At CC it's listing at $3200, which is about $150 less than I paid total for mine (it was listed for $4999 when I bought it in Nov03). I still feel it was worth every penny, and I'm Mr. Buyer's Remorse. In fact, I bought the 61" because I knew I'd have remorse on a smaller set, that I didn't save for the kahuna.

As mentioned, the new guts "fix" a lot of the "problems" with DLP tech (rainbows and black levels). I can make myself see the rainbows if I try, but only on certain high contrast images (actually, the only time I've seen them was using the THX utility, there's a white ring on black bgrnd that I was told to use to see rainbows), but never in normal usage, which is kinda the only time I'm watching it :) Black levels haven't been an issue, I've played through Thief 2 and Thief DS on the set and it was fine.

For pc gaming, you'll need a monitor driver, I'll post the one I made if you need it. Because it's a tv, not a pc monitor (labels, labels, bah), it doesn't ship with drivers. I use a shareware util to make one lickety-split. Here's the quick & dirty if you're interested in doing it yourself.

And avsforum is your friend for researching stuff. Lots of doom & gloom, but if you can look past the biases, it's a great resource (sound familiar? :))

[OcellotJenkins]

Excellent information, thanks.  Now can anyone recommend a nice surround sound system that doesn't break the bank?

Also, I've been out of the loop for about 10 years so I'm wondering what the best way is to handle multiple video sources today.  Let's say I have 3 consoles, a PC, and a DVD player (at a minimum).  Is a separate video switcher box needed or do most of the big screen tv's support this many video inputs?  Same for audio.  How many inputs do the surround sound systems typically support?

[Sky]

I've got a fairly low end receiver, a Panny HE100 or something like that. But it's got 3 component inputs, so if I needed to, I could use it for component switching. My Sammy tv has 3 component ins (1@480i/480p, 2@480p/720p/1080i), 1 VGA in and 1 DVI in. Right now I'm only using the DVI from my pc, I wish it had two DVI ins or that DVI switchers weren't so expensive so I could run my cable box via DVI as well, but cable looks great on component anyway, whereas the pc really improves with the digital signal for pixel perfection. Anyway, that's my setup, I don't know much about switching because I don't need it, the tv alone is robust enough for my needs. Always check the specs to see what ins a tv has.

I almost don't want to know more about good receivers, I don't need to drop more money into the home theater at this point. As always, avsforum.com is a great resource for audio as well as video. One guy I talked a lot of gaming with, MaxC, has some sick front speakers, Rockets or something. Nice stuff, but as I said, I'm trying to ignore it ;) My surround is passing, great sub and center/backs, but the front l/r are just satellites, I haven't upgraded them to 'real' speakers yet (part of my piecemeal way of affording it, heh).

[schild]

What does break the bank mean? I've got a $2800 surround system that rocks ass. I think I have to replace my towers and I personally want a new sub, but you could always just buy the high-end Klipsch PC system. It's decent. A little subwoofery though.

[Morfiend]

As to sound. I have the Onkyo, that was $700. Comes with a decent receiver, and the little speakers kick ass. My friend bought a Bose for $1400 and IMO doesnt sound nearly as good as mine.

I think Im still in debt to a few people here for helping me get it installed with every piece of tech running through the receiver, and being one button press away from viewing on the TV.

As to TVs, I am still planning on getting the Sony WEGA 70 inch one. Man does it look good, the only problem is the price. Its like 6k.

[schild]

Yea, the Onkyo stuff is nice. I run their higher end receiver - the Integra 7.1 one. Speakers are JBL Studios. I don't have the money to get what I really want as that would cost in excess of $15,000. 

[OcellotJenkins]

What does break the bank mean? I've got a $2800 surround system that rocks ass. I think I have to replace my towers and I personally want a new sub, but you could always just buy the high-end Klipsch PC system. It's decent. A little subwoofery though.

Yea, the Onkyo stuff is nice. I run their higher end receiver - the Integra 7.1 one. Speakers are JBL Studios. I don't have the money to get what I really want as that would cost in excess of $15,000. 

Well, $2800 for a sound system alone would be breaking the bank for me, especially after dropping around 3k for the tv.  I believe the WAF (Wife Approval Factor) would be higher with something in the $400-$700 range.  I did notice yesterday at Best Buy that most of the surround sound recievers had video switching so that is nice.

Anyone have any experience with the LCD Projection TVs?  From what I can tell, they are very similar to the DLPs in terms of quality and price but have a significantly better viewing angle.  It was very noticable when comparing a Panny 61" LCD Projection with the Samsung 61" DLP side by side. 

Edit:  Here is the Panasonic

[Morfiend]

Thats what I was talking about with the Sony, I ment the XBR series. They are Rear Projection LCD. They have the best quality/viewing angle/every thing I have seen to date.

[MrHat]

Thats what I was talking about with the Sony, I ment the XBR series. They are Rear Projection LCD. They have the best quality/viewing angle/every thing I have seen to date.

Don't they cost like 6k or something?

You could buy an aluminum powder screen and a decent home theater projector and speakers and a lazy boy for that.

[OcellotJenkins]

Thats what I was talking about with the Sony, I ment the XBR series. They are Rear Projection LCD. They have the best quality/viewing angle/every thing I have seen to date.

Don't they cost like 6k or something?

You could buy an aluminum powder screen and a decent home theater projector and speakers and a lazy boy for that.

The Panasonic in my link above is listed at  $2,595.00.  Not too bad for a 61 incher and from what I can tell in the store, it's definitely equal too if not better looking than the Sony WEGA.

[Sky]

Just read up on LCD in general and the sets you're interested in in particular, over at avsforum. Can't repeat that enough, it's an essential resource, given the money involved.

You could buy an aluminum powder screen and a decent home theater projector and speakers and a lazy boy for that.

I was extremely torn between my set and a projector, just never found a projector I was happy with, and I was happy with the Sammy DLP from the minute I set eyes on it.

[MrHat]

Just read up on LCD in general and the sets you're interested in in particular, over at avsforum. Can't repeat that enough, it's an essential resource, given the money involved.

You could buy an aluminum powder screen and a decent home theater projector and speakers and a lazy boy for that.

I was extremely torn between my set and a projector, just never found a projector I was happy with, and I was happy with the Sammy DLP from the minute I set eyes on it.

Just want to rack your brain on this a bit more.

See, when we go to the store and look at the 61", it just doesn't look as good as the LCD's and even the 56" nearby.  Why is this? (note: I'm pretty much sold on the unit from word of mouth alone, but I want to feel that I really want it).

[Trippy]

Just read up on LCD in general and the sets you're interested in in particular, over at avsforum. Can't repeat that enough, it's an essential resource, given the money involved.

You could buy an aluminum powder screen and a decent home theater projector and speakers and a lazy boy for that.

I was extremely torn between my set and a projector, just never found a projector I was happy with, and I was happy with the Sammy DLP from the minute I set eyes on it.

Just want to rack your brain on this a bit more.

See, when we go to the store and look at the 61", it just doesn't look as good as the LCD's and even the 56" nearby.  Why is this? (note: I'm pretty much sold on the unit from word of mouth alone, but I want to feel that I really want it).

Be more specific. In what ways did it not look as good? Can you see the rainbow effect?

[MrHat]

No, it just doesn't seem like a wide viewing angle and the contrasts were all out of wack (I blame the controller).

Dunno, it was very dark around the edges, like you use to get on the old old rear views.

[Sky]

DLP is sensitive to vertical veiwing angle, in that if you're too far above the viewing plane, or below it, the picture darkens, similar to old rptvs on the horizontal. You have to view it at the angle you'll be viewing it at. Horizontally, I can watch my tv from any spot in the room. There is a bit of darkening when I stand up, but we view it from 10' away, unless you get right up next to it, it's marginal (not just my opinion, it's the local consensus). Remember you'll want to be 10' away or more, there's some formula for it.

Beyond that, electronics stores split out a questionable quality feed to all the sets in the store. Best thing is to plug a high-def source directly into the tv and check out a known good signal. And the set may have been poorly tweaked, I didn't have to tweak mine very much (via the service menu, look to avsforum for details). Certainly nothing like the convergence issues with CRT, imo.

As for why the 56" looked better, that makes me suspect a bad tweaking on the 61", aside from the fact smaller displays tend to look sharper than larger displays as a matter of course.

[Pococurante]

That's what has kept me away from the newer sets.  We have a large sectional oriented around the fireplace/TV and we entertain large groups of people.  It detracts from the brag factor when half can't see the shiny.

[Sky]

That would be the detraction of the older rptv sets with limited horizontal viewing angle. Everyone seated around the room should be able to see a great pciture. Only people up on a balcony or something might have problems, or those standing directly in front of and above the set.

[MrHat]

DLP is sensitive to vertical veiwing angle, in that if you're too far above the viewing plane, or below it, the picture darkens, similar to old rptvs on the horizontal. You have to view it at the angle you'll be viewing it at. Horizontally, I can watch my tv from any spot in the room. There is a bit of darkening when I stand up, but we view it from 10' away, unless you get right up next to it, it's marginal (not just my opinion, it's the local consensus). Remember you'll want to be 10' away or more, there's some formula for it.

Beyond that, electronics stores split out a questionable quality feed to all the sets in the store. Best thing is to plug a high-def source directly into the tv and check out a known good signal. And the set may have been poorly tweaked, I didn't have to tweak mine very much (via the service menu, look to avsforum for details). Certainly nothing like the convergence issues with CRT, imo.

As for why the 56" looked better, that makes me suspect a bad tweaking on the 61", aside from the fact smaller displays tend to look sharper than larger displays as a matter of course.

Turns out the 56" and the 61" use the same lamp, so one is 600 (61) and one is 700 (56) which is why the 56" looks brighter -- it is!

Thanks for the info about the vertical viewing angle, I'll have to check that out.  As it's looking, the brand new 1080p (XX68) might be the way to go in terms of spending lots of money for a fantastic tv.  But it's about 1000 dollars more than the 1080i model (XX67).  Turns out that samsung has been working backwards with all the options (menu options) on the tv's each consecutive generation for some odd reason.

It's hard to read the avsforum and remember that 80% of people will only post when they have a problem.

[Sky]

No shit! I have to start looking around. I love my 720p set to death....but man, a 1080p set would kick mucho buttock....but then I'd be bitching about my video card not running BF2!  Hell of a lot more pixels to push on one of those...but totally worth it for the next few years of gaming.

It's hard to read the avsforum and remember that 80% of people will only post when they have a problem.

Words of wisdom, Lloyd. Words of wisdom.

Also - I thought all the sammy's used a 100W bulb, excepting the 61", which had a 125W. If they dropped a 125W in the smaller set or whatever, then yeah, there you go. That must be insanely bright, my set can get bright at times (I use an ambient light to downplay the brightness in a full dark setting...I'm talking when I open a new blank browser window with a white background in the middle of the night).

[MrHat]

After reading quite a bit on the Samsung tv's on avsforums, I think you got the right deal with your generation TV, and they've been kinda going downhill since then, except for the PQ (picture quality).

# Brightness (cd/m-sq): 61"=600, 56"=700, 50"=900, 46", 42" = 1000.
# Lamp (Standard/Dynamic Display Setting): 42", 46", 50", 56", 61"=(100W/120W)

From the XX67 series that I was looking at.

See this link to AVS to sample the 1080p


1080p:
# Inputs: 2 HDMI , 2 Component Video, 1 S-Video, 2 Composite
# Inputs: VGA/PC (1920x1080@60Hz) 

Win!

[Shockeye]

HDMI Supported Inputs: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i (1080p will NOT be offered)

Why no 1080p via HDMI?

[schild]

720p already renders most people terribly ugly. Near disfigured.

1080p may be what turns me off of TV forever.

[Sky]

Conan O'Brien is a disturbing looking guy. Good thing he has a pretty funny show imo. Schild is definitely right, though, hd is bringing out the details you miss in standard def programming, like  Cammy Diaz' pockmarked face.

But Conan's pillars (the sidebars when they put out a 4:3 image) are HANDS-DOWN the best I've ever seen: Abe Vigota playing ping pong against another Abe on the opposite side. I wish that was the standard NBC pillarboxing!

[MrHat]

HDMI Supported Inputs: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i (1080p will NOT be offered)

Why no 1080p via HDMI?

Shit, must've missed that.  HDMI sucks anyways.  Damn you MPAA.

Edit: To add more to the 'you got the right tv Sky', alot of people are complaining of video lag for xbox/ps2 and audio lag for everything else because of the extra functions the tv goes through to get the PQ higher (~100ms either way).  Since this generation has absolutely no way to shut off certain functions that some people find extraneous, the problem is common place.  Although, again, most people that post on AVSforum are the same type of people that try to squeeze 3 more FPS out of a vid card.

[schild]

Most modern receivers and preamps can delay sound or video to resync this sort of issue. As such it's a total non-issue. If you're getting a good TV, do it all right. Don't go half ass on the audio and video processing.

[MrHat]

Most modern receivers and preamps can delay sound or video to resync this sort of issue. As such it's a total non-issue. If you're getting a good TV, do it all right. Don't go half ass on the audio and video processing.

XBox and PS2 Delay from input to output.