Big Screen TV recommendations...

[OcellotJenkins]

Go to your local airport that has a plasma screen that has been running for more then 6 months.

Plasma is great when it is new - it just suffers from burn-in. Look into life expectancy. And make sure your warranty covers burn-in.

Unless you watch news channels 24 hours a day, seven days a week (airport TVs) or use the plasma as a computer monitor with no screen saver, burn-in is rarely ever an issue.  Do a search on avsforum.com if you are concerned about it.

[Trippy]

The ultimate (for now) HDTV?: Sony 60" Grand WEGA™ SXRD™ Rear Projection HDTV KDS-R60XBR1

Press release here.

[MrHat]

The ultimate (for now) HDTV?: Sony 60" Grand WEGA™ SXRD™ Rear Projection HDTV KDS-R60XBR1

Press release here.

Those fuckers finally came out?  Damn, I'm so excited about those, but I can't warrant spending 30% more than my budget (10-15% yes, but 30%!)

Edit: Looks like it doesn't accept 1080p after all.  Shame.

[Sky]

Ultimate isn't the word I'd use. It's nice (where are you seeing it not accept 1080p, that's the native res), but I'd be holding off because it's not in a good form, assuming you want a Wega, natch. 3 S-video ins, 3 Composite ins...you shouldn't be needing either, really, both look like total garbage on an hdtv. Only one HDMI, should be at least two (for pc and cable box, the VGA port sucks, too, imo digital tv = digital source, dammit). No need for that internal tuner, comes with the cable box. What's with 3 firewire ports? I'd bet a lot of this extra crap adds to the price, too.

Anyway, like I said. It's nice, no doubt. But not ultimate.

[MrHat]

Ultimate isn't the word I'd use. It's nice (where are you seeing it not accept 1080p, that's the native res), but I'd be holding off because it's not in a good form, assuming you want a Wega, natch. 3 S-video ins, 3 Composite ins...you shouldn't be needing either, really, both look like total garbage on an hdtv. Only one HDMI, should be at least two (for pc and cable box, the VGA port sucks, too, imo digital tv = digital source, dammit). No need for that internal tuner, comes with the cable box. What's with 3 firewire ports? I'd bet a lot of this extra crap adds to the price, too.

Anyway, like I said. It's nice, no doubt. But not ultimate.

Check the specs, it accepts 480i, 480p, 720i, 720p, 1080i, but not 1080p as an INPUT.  The native resolution is 1080p, but I thought it would really seperate this tv from the crowd if it accepted 1080p as an input.  As it is, it will upscale whatever it gets to 1080p which is still sexy.  But I'll probably be going with the Sammy DLP 68 series for about 1k cheaper.

[Sky]

That's stupid, then. Pile of overpriced junk.

My bias toward Sammy DLPs is obvious enough ;)

[MrHat]

That's stupid, then. Pile of overpriced junk.

My bias toward Sammy DLPs is obvious enough ;)

Well ya, that and the missus is sensitive to screen door LCD's.

But ya, the 68 series is 1080i input through HDMI, but upscales everything to 1080p.  Now the nutter is whether or not I'll find one in the next 3 months for less that 3600.

[Miguel]

A note on the plasma's: the burn in effect you see at the airport is because they display the same schedule information in the same format which causes the burn-in.  They are displaying those images 24/7 for MONTHS.  You'll never see that effect with home use unless you leave a desktop image from a PC on the screen for hours a day EVERY day!

I went through the same exercise for my home setup, and here's what I decided to get:

Television

Panasonic TH-42PWD7UK EDTV Plasma TV

Reasons I went with plasma:

1) The 42" screen size was perfect for the space I had: which was a 24' x 15' room.  My normal viewing distance is slightly to the right at about 15' away.
2) Off axis viewing quality:  I wasn't happy with several DLP set's with the picture at 15 to 30 degree's off axis.  There was very noticable darkening and loss of contrast unless I was directly in front of the set.  I don't notice that with a plasma display.  I have two couches that are each about 20 degrees off-axis to the screen so this was important to me.
3) I didn't want to loose floor space with projection set!  Being able to hang a plasma up on the wall with a tilt mount really made the room at lot 'bigger', and allowed me to sit farther away from the screen with the same furniture configuration.

Price:  $2000 delievered from the company in the link above, no problems, in three days!

Receiver

Denon AVR-2805

This seemed to be a good mid-range receiver.  I was most interested in the 3 sets of switchable component inputs on the back, plus it has a nice onscreen display that is at least somewhat intuitive to use!

Price: $650 at a local Magnolia brick-and-mortar store

Speakers - All from Definitive Technology

BP7002 Bipolar SuperTower

These things really blew me away in the store!  Each tower features two sets of midrange/tweeter combinations in D'Appolito pairs, one firing forward, the other firing to the rear.  Each tower also features a powered 12" subwoofer that is connected to the subwoofer channel coming out of the Denon receiver.

Price: About $750 each (I got two of them)

They also have a matching center speaker:

CLR2300 Center

This uses the exact same dirvers as the towers (two midranges with a tweeter in a D'Apollito configuration), and has another powered 8" subwoofer firing out the top.

Price: $450

Then, for surrounds:

BP1.2X Surround speakers

They were $400 for the pair.  Then are mounted in the wall at the back of the room.

DVD Player

I went with a Sony Progressive scan DVD player that would output 480P.  I got it for $100 at Best Buy.

For TV, I am currently using the standard Phillips DirectTV receiver that outputs HD in 1080i and 720p.  It came with my DirectTV setup.

All in all, I think it was important to spend the cash on the TV and the speakers, since I also listen to a LOT of music on this system.  I think if you buy quality stuff, it will last for a very long time and will make you happier than cheaper stuff that you may feel you 'compromised' on. :)

Also, spend the money to get a receiver with a component switcher!  I got my DirectTV receiver, my DVD player, and my XBox all running through this connection and it works perfectly.

[Rasix]

Wewp, about to jump in the market for an HD tv. 

Currently leaning toward Sony Grand WEGA 42" Widescreen Digital-Cable-Ready Rear-Projection LCD HDTV .  Everytime I go to Best Buy I'm just drawn inexplicably to this set.  The picture quality just looks phenomenal.

Here's what it would be for:

HDTV: primarily football. Everytime I see HD football, my jaw drops open and I drool uncontrolably.
Watching DVDs.
Playing my console games.

I like the size but anything 34" to 44" would probably be OK.  Anything too big and the wife won't go for it due to our living room not being ginormous.  Personally I wouldn't mind it being 50% filled up by a TV, but I would prefer to compromise with this purchase.  From what I've seen an experienced, 42" would be more than sufficient for me.

Budget: roughly $3k.  Inspiration for all of this: my 36" 10 year old tv (a gift) is making a high pitching whining noise for 3-5 minutes everytime I fire it up. It's on the way out.  The colors aren't great anymore and it's kind of a dinosaur. 

[Sky]

But ya, the 68 series is 1080i input through HDMI, but upscales everything to 1080p.

Upscaling sucks for the most part. 1080i looks great on my 720p set, 480p is acceptable, and 480i looks pretty bad. GIGO. I really don't see a reason to be getting a 1080p set for a couple years yet. Case in point would be 720p consoles this round. No tv broadcast in 1080p, no HD-DVD in 1080p, you'd be limited to the games you could run off your pc @ 1920x1080x60Hz.

HDTV: primarily football. Everytime I see HD football, my jaw drops open and I drool uncontrolably.

I agree. MNF is 720p, btw ;) I'm not sure on the others, I know the other two network channels are 1080i, but they look stunning anyway on my Sammy. You can get the newer version of my 61" set for ~$2500. The 46" version, more along your size requirements, is very nice and should be well within your budget.

But really, Ras, whatever draws you in will probably be fine. Just look carefully at the specs, you're a smart guy. Watch out for incompatibilities with your components, make sure it's got enough inputs for all of it, etc. I favor 720p because I don't like the way 1080i sets scale a 720p image, but these are things to ask to see in the store.

There was very noticable darkening and loss of contrast unless I was directly in front of the set.

This surpises me, because my set has stunning horizontal viewing angle, I've had people sitting at 80º without any degradation except the angle itself. Vertically, sure, but at the distance I view from (10'), you can stand up without degradation, just when you get any closer than that.

EDTV...ecch. Sorry to cast dispersions, but I'd never own such a thing. For the money involved (especially with a plasma edtv), I don't see why you'd make such a large compromise. (My 61" DLP was $3350 delivered white glove, next day ;))

I agree with your assessment of burn-in. It's a minute risk, but something to be aware of when evaluating usage patterns. DLP suffers no burn-in whatsoever, btw ;) The only tech that doesn't because it's mechanical not chemical.

A receiver with component switching is nice, but make sure you need it. My sammy has 3 component inputs, I use one for tv, one for my xbox (no component for the GC, I use that on another tv in the house). I have 3 empty component in/outs on my Panny HE100, which I think cost me around $200-300, decent enough receiver for home theater, though I don't have the speakers to test it properly (just the surround stuff). I do tend to have that extra input open because I use my pc for DVDs, which connects via DVI (which is verrry nice). I've really got to get some better stereo gear ;) Mine totally sucks.

[MrHat]

Ya, Sky, the more I read the less I want the 1080p because I'd need to invest another grand in my computer just to take advantage of it.

Plus, I could get the 61" 67 series for about 2500 at Bestbuy, maybe less once I start working there.  And that could make it possible like next week :p


Edit:  Although, there are 2 things that really have me going for the 1080p -- 1. Viewing distance, you can get much closer to a 1080p picture than you can a 720p.  2. 1080i-1080p is a real nice conversion.  Haven't seen difference between an upscaled and non upscaled picture, just going on theory craft for the most part.

[Trippy]

Ultimate isn't the word I'd use. It's nice (where are you seeing it not accept 1080p, that's the native res), but I'd be holding off because it's not in a good form, assuming you want a Wega, natch. 3 S-video ins, 3 Composite ins...you shouldn't be needing either, really, both look like total garbage on an hdtv. Only one HDMI, should be at least two (for pc and cable box, the VGA port sucks, too, imo digital tv = digital source, dammit). No need for that internal tuner, comes with the cable box. What's with 3 firewire ports? I'd bet a lot of this extra crap adds to the price, too.

Anyway, like I said. It's nice, no doubt. But not ultimate.

Actually by "ultimate" I wasn't referring to the number of inputs it may or may not have but to the SXRD display technology. On paper, at least, it seems to solve most of the problems the other competing technologies have. E.g. no rainbow effect (single-chip DLP weakness), no screen door effect (LCD weakness), and very high contrast ratio (LCoS weakness). The only remaining disadvantage that it might still have since it wasn't mentioned is the viewing angle or lack thereof.

[Murgos]

Next year you are going to start seeing the very large LCD screens.  We had a guy from a major multinational vendor come demo some Point of Sale stuff for us and he was telling us about the trip he just got back from where they were training all the salesmen on the new technologies.

It's going to start out pretty outrageously priced, like 30 grand for a 72" but the prices will drop rapidly.  Also, he says there is no upper limit to the size of the display.  They were told a 30' HD LCD screen was entirely possible.

[Sky]

Well, LCD does have the advantage of market penetration and good fabrication facilities behind it.

Trippy - I've not looked into the tech of that set, but lemme tell you....it's nice not being susceptible to the DLP rainbow effect ;)

[OcellotJenkins]

EDTV...ecch. Sorry to cast dispersions, but I'd never own such a thing. For the money involved (especially with a plasma edtv), I don't see why you'd make such a large compromise. (My 61" DLP was $3350 delivered white glove, next day ;))

Sky, you're a knowledgeable guy and I respect your opinion in this area but your assesment of EDTV and plasma appears rather uninformed.  Any normal human being with normal eyesight cannot tell the difference between 480p and 720p on a good quality 42" plasma screen, it's a simple as that.  On larger screens, yes it get's very noticable but not on 42" and under.  Walmart is selling my tv (Panasonic 42" EDTV) for $2000.  Circuit City and Best Buy are about $200 more.  The picture quality of a plasma screen can't be beat, period.  It comes down to how large of a screen you want verses how much money you want to spend.

Wonder why they put the plasmas on the skinny isles at best buy and the rear projections way over in the corner?  You're hard pressed to find a flaw in a plasma screen up close where as rear projections need a more straight on viewing angle and distance to look optimal.  You're happy with your DLP and that is all that matters, but I'm sorry, plasma has that technology beat in just about every way possible.  Rear projection gets the win when you need very large screen real estate and don't want to spend the money for an equivalent sized plasma or flat panel LCD.

[Shockeye]

New TVs and monitors for everyone!

Finally, while we're all in lynch mode, let me add the last anti-hurrah. TVs without HDCP, also known as most TVs in North America, are subject to the exact same problem. In 2004, HDTV penetration in the US was estimated at 9 percent. Of those TVs, and most of them do not support HDCP (although TVs sold today do, by and large). However, if you're heading out this weekend to drop US$3,000 on a TV, chances are high that it will support HDCP. The same can't be said of monitors, sadly. Apple's US$2999.99 30" display doesn't support HDCP, and only a handful of Dell's various options do. If you're in the market for a new display, you might want to wait until some units are shipping with HDCP support. You might think that you'll be able to buy an HDCP stripper, but there's a problem there. Once a stripper hits the (black or white) market, all a content provider needs to do is revoke the keys used by the device. It's not a solution. Between Blu-ray's BD+ and HDCPs key revocation, this next generation of tech is going to be considerably harder to crack.

[Sky]

Any normal human being with normal eyesight cannot tell the difference between 480p and 720p on a good quality 42" plasma screen, it's a simple as that.

I disagree with what you said but I'm not going to debate it.

[Furiously]

Any normal human being with normal eyesight cannot tell the difference between 480p and 720p on a good quality 42" plasma screen, it's a simple as that.

I disagree with what you said but I'm not going to debate it.

From what viewing distance? I can't imagine not being able to tell the difference. (Depending on the programming type).

[Shockeye]

Any normal human being with normal eyesight cannot tell the difference between 480p and 720p on a good quality 42" plasma screen, it's a simple as that.

I disagree with what you said but I'm not going to debate it.

I would imagine it's similar to the debate about bitrates for MP3.

[OcellotJenkins]

Any normal human being with normal eyesight cannot tell the difference between 480p and 720p on a good quality 42" plasma screen, it's a simple as that.

I disagree with what you said but I'm not going to debate it.

Well, I'm going to back up what I said with links so that others who are considering a purchase have more than just my opinion and your opinion on the matter.

Impossible for most viewers to see the high definition of HDTV

Plasma HDTV outperforms LCD and DLP says Imaging Science Foundation

Countless threads on avsforum.com regarding the viability of Plasma EDTVs

Given two 42" Plasma TVs side by side, one is ED for $2k and the other is HD for $3k, there is virtually no difference in the picture quality and viewing experience of the two.  There certainly isn't $1000 difference in the two.  Don't let the buzz words cloud the truth, go to a store and see for yourself.

[Shockeye]

Big-Screen Televisions
A moral dilemma.

[Murgos]

Big-Screen Televisions
A moral dilemma.

I missed something in that article.  I think it was the point.  "TV's have gotten better and cheaper in the last 10 years", is that really what he was trying to say?

[Llava]

Something about feng shui too, I think.

[MrHat]

Big-Screen Televisions
A moral dilemma.

I don't understand what he was talking about.

[Trippy]

Panasonic Cuts Plasma TV Prices by Average of $500

[HaemishM]

Big-Screen Televisions
A moral dilemma.

I don't understand what he was talking about.

Typical shitty Slate writing, wherein a liberal apologizes for the unconscious guilt he feels at being part of the upper middle class so he can feel better about infantilizing the poor as victims of class wars.

Fuck, I think I just channeled Triforcer.

[Yegolev]

Typical shitty Slate writing, wherein a liberal apologizes for the unconscious guilt he feels at being part of the upper middle class so he can feel better about infantilizing the poor as victims of class wars.

The air crackles with conservatism!

[HaemishM]

The worst part about that sentence was that I was serious. Slate is a mound of shit with the occasional flake of gold-colored peanuts.

This wasn't a peanut.

[Xilren's Twin]

Well, since I started this thread a while back I figured I'd tell you what I finally went with.

Got a 50" Samsung DLP HD TV, a panasonic DVD Player/Recorder that upscales to HDMI output, a pretty basic Sony 600W A/V unit and speakers and the HD kit for my Xbox.   The 50" DLP fits the room I have to a t and in terms of price vs picture quality, was just hard to beat. 

Down the road a bit I'll replace my Sat receiver/DVR with a High Def version but thats $700 I can do later.

Played some Halo2 on high def with surround sound last night.  Yowsa.

Xilren
PS Biggest PITA to find, a TV stand I liked.  Got one that's OK but not really what I was looking for.  I would have preferred a wood piece rather that a silver metal stand with glass shelves.
PPS In case people hadnt noticed, cables are freaking expensive.  HDMI alone is like $80-100 for 4 ft.  Add in 3 Digital Optical, some S video, and such and I probably dropped $200 on the cables easy.

[MrHat]

Congrats!!!!!

PPS In case people hadnt noticed, cables are freaking expensive.  HDMI alone is like $80-100 for 4 ft.  Add in 3 Digital Optical, some S video, and such and I probably dropped $200 on the cables easy.

Ya, but they're also the single most overlooked limitiing factor in picture and sound quality.

[Morfiend]

Just a quick note on TVs.

If you are going to buy a TV. You should NEVER buy it anywhere except CostCo. If you have your reciept, as of right now, they will take your TV back for full refund, forever, for any reason. You could spend $4k on a TV, as long as you have the reciept, you could take it back in 4 years, and get a new $4k TV.

One of the guys who works their told my friend about it. He said the best thing to do is tape the reciept to the back of the TV, so that way you have it ready in a few years when you want to bring it back for an "upgrade". This should be available for all electronics except computers.

You can ask one of the people who works are your local CostCo about this.

*Edit* For my stupidity. And the children.

[MrHat]

Just a quick note on TVs.

If you are going to buy a TV. You should NEVER buy it anywhere except Price Club. If you have your reciept, as of right now, they will take your TV back for full refund, forever, for any reason. You could spend $4k on a TV, as long as you ahve the reciept, you could take it back in 4 years, and get a new $4k TV.

One of the guys who works their told my friend about it. He said the best thing to do is tape the reciept to the back of the TV, so that way you have it ready in a few years when you want to bring it back for an "upgrade". This should be available for all electronics except computers.

You can ask one of the people who works are your local Price Club about this.

You must be fucking with me.  Or this policy will change in 2 months.

Edit: Is that costco?

[Morfiend]

Shit, I ment Costco. Sorry for the confusion.

(Hectic day here at work, we lost a t1, now fixed)

[schild]

Price Club and Costco are the exact same thing.

[Sky]

Costco is an amazing company. One of the few big capitalist outfits I can dig. That deal is insane, like most of the way they do business (in a good way).

Xil- my tv is on a couple cheap plastic end tables. Figured I'd get something nicer someday... I got a 10' DVI cable fairly cheap, but I'll be damned if I can remember where we ordered it (via work, my tv is DVI).

That set top box upgrade is a bit steep, imo, but I'm spoiled having cable. $7/mo. Love me some HD football.

Played some Halo2 on high def with surround sound last night.  Yowsa.

Welcome to the crappy clubs for jerks :P