Episode 3

[Litigator]

[The overall political metaplot actually worked well. I'm a conservative IRL and didn't see much hamfisted "OMG BUSH IS THE EMPIRE!" stuff that some blogs are ranting about. I mean, come on, the Empire is fascist - who knew? The seduction of Anakin worked well enough given the time constraints, and the collapse of the Republic felt about right. And of course, Executive Order 66 was, well, too cool for words. So THAT'S why those clones appeared from nowhere! And it explains the whole purpose of the Clone War; not only for a reason for Palpatine to assume power, but also to infiltrate and destroy the Jedi who came to rely on them. Very subtle and unusal subtext for Lucas.

I think a lot of film critics just wanted to talk about politics and didn't want to talk about this movie, so they latched onto that. I think it's possible that Lucas intended to needle Bush when he threw that one exchange where Anakin says :If you're not with me, you're my enemy," and Obi Wan replies "Only a Sith thinks in absolutes."

If you want to read contemporary social issues into the matter, it's as easy to interpret the Sith as representing homosexuality as it is to view them as Republicans.  The Jedi are essentially social conservatives. They're prudish about sex, ascetic and extremely religious.  The Sith are kind of lascivious, and their master/apprentice duality reeks of homoeroticism, which is reinforced by the mincing, limp-wristed portrayal of the Emperor, who is the gayest screen bad guy since Ian McKellan was Magneto.  In fact, the whole narrative could be viewed as Anakin, under the tutelage of Sidious, literally throwing away his female love interest, and subsequently donning S&M gimp gear in the dank recesses of Sidious's boudoir.   

[Llava]

Maybe my girlfriend and I are the only people in the world who feel this way, but I really don't get why everyone's getting hard-ons about Han Solo.  He was the token rebellious badass.  Woo.  I just don't get it.  Obi-Wan was way cooler, and I never even really liked Obi-Wan that much.

I'd be interested to know more about the Sith.  Does the Dark Side twist their minds, or are they that evil on their own?  Is there a balance that can be struck between the rigid control of the Jedi and the violent passion of the Sith?  Are all the folks who use their emotions with the Force necessarily evil?  What was Darth Maul's deal?  He was a Jedi first, right?  What corrupted him?

[Daydreamer]

I'd be interested to know more about the Sith.  Does the Dark Side twist their minds, or are they that evil on their own?  Is there a balance that can be struck between the rigid control of the Jedi and the violent passion of the Sith?  Are all the folks who use their emotions with the Force necessarily evil?  What was Darth Maul's deal?  He was a Jedi first, right?  What corrupted him?

One of my favorite parts about the EU Star Wars books is just this.  As Luke develops as a Jedi, and as his academy grows, he is faced with difficult decisions about the rules Jedi should follow.  He has to weight his intuition and experience against recordings of old Jedi teachings - a balance that echos with his role as the Chosen One, but that every author has a different take on.

God damn it, now I want to go back and reread the old pre-Vong EU books.  Damn you Llava.

[stray]

And it's a shame, because if somebody had said "George, maybe we should lay a strong foundation for the stuff in Episode 3 by dedicating screen time to developing these characters and this romance in Episode 2, instead of an hour of extraneous shit about the origin of the bounty hunter who has four lines in the original trilogy," this whole failed three-film enterprise might have been salvaged. 

As I said earlier, I'm going through the prequels atm, and now I'm almost done with AotC. The Obi-Wan detective story shit is the only thing that's really working about this film. It's hardly extraneous. Sure, Lucas is catering to fans of an old side character that wasn't intended to be "popular"....But it all works --- This is Attack of the "Clones", after all. Tracing the bounty hunter is the key to open that part of the story up.

From the very moment Obi-Wan jumps out of Padme's apartment to catch the bounty hunter, until the two story arcs tie together at the first clone battle, it's pretty terrific (minus the Padme/Anakin scenes). Lots of great action, and McGregor gets plenty of screen time. Not a bad thing. Casting Temura Morrison was a great choice as well.

He wouldn't necessarily need to throw it all out --- but concentrating on a better way to pull off the romantic story part, that I'll agree with.

The Anakin/Padme stuff really is pretty fucking horrible. It's funny how Lucas does a fairly servicable job in a broad range of things, like sword combat/fight scenes, vehicular action/chase scenes, massive space battles, "cutesy shit" ala R2-D2, slapstick, political intrigue, detective stories, etc., etc......But he's just a completel jackass when it comes to romance. I mean, "fireplace lighting"? Can you get any more soap opera-ish than that? It's truly painful. Perhaps the only good scene is when they were out in the field talking about the Senate (when Anakin jokes about "dictatorships").

Anyways, I guess I'm going to watch the rest.

I'd be interested to know more about the Sith.

Peace is a lie
There is only passion
Through passion I gain strength
Through strength I gain power
Through power I gain victory
Through victory my chains are broken
The Force shall set me free

[Evil Elvis]

As I said earlier, I'm going through the prequels atm, and now I'm almost done with AotC. The Obi-Wan detective story shit is the only thing that's really working about this film. It's hardly extraneous. Sure, Lucas is catering to fans of an old side character that wasn't intended to be "popular"....But it all works --- This is Attack of the "Clones", after all. Tracing the bounty hunter is the key to open that part of the story up.

From the very moment Obi-Wan jumps out of Padme's apartment to catch the bounty hunter, until the two story arcs tie together at the first clone battle, it's pretty terrific (minus the Padme/Anakin scenes). Lots of great action, and McGregor gets plenty of screen time. Not a bad thing. Casting Temura Morrison was a great choice as well.

He wouldn't necessarily need to throw it all out --- but concentrating on a better way to pull off the romantic story part, that I'll agree with.

The Anakin/Padme stuff really is pretty fucking horrible. It's funny how Lucas does a fairly servicable job in a broad range of things, like sword combat/fight scenes, vehicular action/chase scenes, massive space battles, "cutesy shit" ala R2-D2, slapstick, political intrigue, detective stories, etc., etc......But he's just a completel jackass when it comes to romance. I mean, "fireplace lighting"? Can you get any more soap opera-ish than that? It's truly painful. Perhaps the only good scene is when they were out in the field talking about the Senate (when Anakin jokes about "dictatorships").

I dunno.  I think he's right, it wasn't integral to the story. Not that I think the clone/Jango scenes themselves were the worst parts of the movie.  Aside from the dogfight in the asteroid field (3720 to 1 odds my ass), most of the stuff with Jango is damn good when compared to the rest of the film.  That still doesn't make it necessary.

I liked Boba in the OT, but I didn't need an expose on his past.  He was there to look cool, and kick ass, and that was it.  The whole tying of his origin so intricately into the clones and the entire storyline just made the universe that much smaller.  Temura wasn't bad in the prequels, but his voice-overs for Boba in the OT was horrible.  And I really dislike knowing what Boba looked like under the mask.

[Festus Clamrod]

I liked Boba in the OT, but I didn't need an expose on his past.  He was there to look cool, and kick ass, and that was it.

Not to derail this thread or anything, but I've never quite understood the Boba Fet luv. I mean, what did he do exactly? He played bus driver to Han the Ice Cube and died with less drama than Porkins. That hardly qualifies as kicking ass.

[Merusk]

I liked Boba in the OT, but I didn't need an expose on his past.  He was there to look cool, and kick ass, and that was it.

Not to derail this thread or anything, but I've never quite understood the Boba Fet luv. I mean, what did he do exactly? He played bus driver to Han the Ice Cube and died with less drama than Porkins. That hardly qualifies as kicking ass.

The hype started because of the horrible SW Christmas special.  Then in ESB, he outfoxed the Fox everyone loved (Han) and was the mystery badass Vader felt it was necessary to make special clarifications to.  This gave him some kind of legenday aura that even dying like a screaming bitch couldn't overcome.

[AOFanboi]

Then in ESB, he outfoxed the Fox everyone loved (Han)

No, he didn't, he was captured by Lando's treachery, Darth Vader's force powers and a couple of storm trooper squads. Boba Fett just stood there watching. LAZY GIT! And people like that get a carreer named after them in SW:G?

[El Gallo]

I remember the craze over boba's action figure, I thought that it was just because he looked so cool.

[Abagadro]

Fett was the one who tracked the Falcon to Cloud City after the whole "float out with the rest of the garbage" tactic Han used to escape the Star Destroyer when they were found in the asteroid belt.

[AOFanboi]

Fett was the one who tracked the Falcon to Cloud City after the whole "float out with the rest of the garbage" tactic Han used to escape the Star Destroyer when they were found in the asteroid belt.

Whoops, you are right of course.

[El Gallo]

Anyone actually seen this yet? Comments? Thumbs up? Down? Sideways?

Judging from El Gallo's post, I think he liked it, but wussed out in saying so, out of fear that he'd take a beating.

Shit, I have openly defended Brad McQuaid on this forum :)  Any beating I'd get over this would feel like a lovetap.
_{NOTE: WILL SUCK COCK FOR VANGUARD BETA INVITE.  PST!}

I wish Lucas hadn't dicked around so much in the first 2 movies so he would not have had to squeeze so much in and still cut things short.  The fall of the temple could have been the coolest scene in all 6 movies if I had only gotten to see Vader slice through a bunch of jedi knights and masters like they were little bitches.  Vader has to seem (a) like someone who had believably become utterly but redeemably evil and (b) someone who was believably a guy with the potential to become the most powerful being in the galaxy.  While I surprisingly found (a) (the stretch from the temple to the frankenvader was great imo) covered pretty well, I would have liked to see more "b".  Looking at all 6 movies, you see Anakin/Vader fight, what, 6 times?  His only impressive victory is his second fight with Dooku.  All the other times he loses or "meh" victories.

Aside from wanting to see more in the temple, that sequence was great.  The Vader-Padme, Vader-Padme-ObiWan and Vader-Obi Wan sequences rang true to me.  He really seemed like a powerful guy with the emotional makeup of a 14 year old descending into rage and self-delusion.

Then came Frankenvader.  I felt like George Lucas took my childhood, chopped off its legs, set it on fire and left it to gurgle and moan, alone and dying.  I cannot believe he thought that scene was a good idea.  I mean, fuck, that's a joke they use almost every week on the Simpsons, and he thought it was appropriate for the emotional climax of all 6 movies.  

[WayAbvPar]

I liked it. I don't think it made up for the total waste of time that was TPM, but it did a nice job of entertaining me and moving the story along.

[Triforcer]

I'll renew my RotK complaint here in Episode III: homoeroticism.  I can't remember exactly where I saw it, but the best review line ever for RotS: "Ian McDarmid plays Palpatine like an old queen trying to find a new cabana boy."  He reminds me of that mincing doctor from Lost in Space.

[Fraeg]

Crazy effects, good fights, spectacular scenes where I wanted to hit *pause* and just soak it all in.

The acting skills of your average 7th grade christmas pageant.


-nat

[Samwise]

Palpatine was "seducing" Anakin to the Dark Side, after all.  I thought the portrayal was pretty good, homoerotic overtones and all.

[WindupAtheist]

Hell Schild, I was gonna make some sort of scathing remark, but others have tagged it for me.

Give me a break. Really man, where do you get off? I like you, but your hate is just...well...Shit, I don't know what it is. It's a black hole. It's so comical I almost want to believe that you've been trolling all this time.

self-important, beret-wearing jackass that is choleric with rage because some truly talented filmmakers dare to let their movies become mainstream popular instead of remaining "inside" favorites of the clique-ish film-snob community.

[Evil Elvis]

Frankenvader left me as scarred as a Tara Reid titty.

[Fraeg]

We have hyperdrives, blasters, jedi mind tricks, lightsabers, and armored unicycles from hell... but no such thing as a Cesarian?

I guess they attribute Natalie Portman's death to "a lack of will to live" or some crap. But all I could think of was... "dude where the hell is Obi-Wan-Gyn to perform a lighsaber C-Section".

[Arnold]

My point was that Lucas wasn't ever an auteur. He did not have full creative control. Harrison Ford took it away from him. The director of Empire Strikes back took it away from him. His kids took it away from him.

Reach much?

Not particularly. You obviously didn't hear his comments on Jar-jar Binks and the Ewoks. One argument is that Star Wars is a kids movie. Maybe, but I don't buy it. Really it's HIS kids' movie(s).

I was a kid when ROTJ came out.  To this day, when I watch it, I watch the Han Rescue scenes and the new Death Star scenes.  All the Ewok shit, I cut out.  It's kind of like my "Gangster Cut" of Pulp Fiction.

[Daydreamer]

  It's kind of like my "Gangster Cut" of Pulp Fiction.

This is intriguing, please elaborate.

[stray]

I couldn't tell if it was a CGI Cushing face or they rounded up some guy who looked like he looked when he was younger. Knowing Lucas it was a CGI overlay. I'll have to look closer next time as the first time it was a brief "Hey that dude is supposed to be Tarkin!" moment.

Just watched it again. I couldn't see how Tarkin's head could be anything but CGI. Looks pretty fake, like some of the scenes with the clones (he's got that "waxy" look to him).

[Samwise]

IMDB says that the role of Governor Tarkin was played by one Wayne Pygram.

[stray]

IMDB says that the role of Governor Tarkin was played by one Wayne Pygram.

His body maybe.

[Llava]

We have hyperdrives, blasters, jedi mind tricks, lightsabers, and armored unicycles from hell... but no such thing as a Cesarian?

I guess they attribute Natalie Portman's death to "a lack of will to live" or some crap. But all I could think of was... "dude where the hell is Obi-Wan-Gyn to perform a lighsaber C-Section".

A broken heart? Fah, she's only MOSTLY dead.

[Arnold]

  It's kind of like my "Gangster Cut" of Pulp Fiction.

This is intriguing, please elaborate.

I don't still have it, but at one point in the 90s, I made a tape of Pulp Fiction that only had scenes with Vincent and Jules.

[Daydreamer]

  It's kind of like my "Gangster Cut" of Pulp Fiction.

This is intriguing, please elaborate.

I don't still have it, but at one point in the 90s, I made a tape of Pulp Fiction that only had scenes with Vincent and Jules.

So you cut the Watch scene and the Katana scene? For shame!

[Evil Elvis]

IMDB says that the role of Governor Tarkin was played by one Wayne Pygram.

His body maybe.

There were pictures of the guy months and months ago.  It's a real guy in makeup, no CGI.

[stray]

  It's kind of like my "Gangster Cut" of Pulp Fiction.

This is intriguing, please elaborate.

I don't still have it, but at one point in the 90s, I made a tape of Pulp Fiction that only had scenes with Vincent and Jules.

Speaking of that....Someone needs to dub the scene where Anakin asks for a seat on the Jedi Council.

Mace: After discussing this matter over, we've decided to let you have a seat, but to not make you a Jedi Master.

Anakin: What?!

Mace: SAY WHAT AGAIN! I DARE YA! I DOUBLE DARE YA, MUTHAFUCKA!

After all is said and done, Mace, out of all the Jedi's that got jacked, comes out looking like the biggest punk. Someone's gotta redeem Samuel L. here.

[sidereal]

Late review:

After the movie finished, I staggered towards the screen, dropped to my knees in anguish, and with supplicating hands upturned and shaking cried, "Noooooooooooooooooooooo!!!" 

Not really, but that's how Lucas would write it, because he writes dialogue like a moody 16-year-old.

The CGI was pretty good, but I'm nearly at the point in my movie-watching career where that's a negative instead of a positive (lower budget shows like Battlestar Galactica and last year's Dune on SciFi have whetted my appetite for understated effects).  And seen enough of Jedi slicing up droids in the middle of backflips that it's basically white noise now.  Hayden was easily the best actor in the movie that wasn't computer generated.  Yoda takes top honors.  I wonder if the SAG worries about things like that.

I think one of the big problems was that it was so straightjacketed by what it had to do.  There was not a single scene or event in the entire movie that wasn't there with the purpose of plugging II into IV.  No character building, no scene setting. . nothing like the pod races (which, to be fair, were only there to sell umpteen million dollars in video game licenses).  It was all about finishing off the droids, getting Anakin to Vader,  and getting Luke to Tatooine, then lights out.  I think if they had pushed Anakin's betrayal back to the end of II and chopped out a lot of the crap that was there instead, they could have made III into a real movie instead of glorified duct tape.

Meh-minus.  I probably won't watch it again unless it's on HBO at a friend's house or something.

[Arnold]

The CGI was pretty good

But much of CGI ages badly.  I watched TPM earlier this year, after having only seen it one time when it was new.  God, did the CGI suck!  Videogames have better graphics nowadays than that movie had.  The war scene between the droids and the Gungans is atrocious.  The landscape just looks like some lame, flat green color laid atop a hilly landscape.  You can't see any grass blades at all and there are no trees or anything.

[Arnold]

  It's kind of like my "Gangster Cut" of Pulp Fiction.

This is intriguing, please elaborate.

I don't still have it, but at one point in the 90s, I made a tape of Pulp Fiction that only had scenes with Vincent and Jules.

So you cut the Watch scene and the Katana scene? For shame!

Sorry, but the full movie is a  bit long.  I appreciate the whole thing, but sometimes I just neeeded a quick fix, and that's what my "Gangster Cut" was for.  Actually I should have said "Vincent and/or Jules" as far as scenes go.

[Paelos]

I saw it. It didn't suck, but I hated that Lucas went well out of his way to make the Emporer look really dumb, and the whole dark side possibly saving life BS. Also, I thought Vader hunted down Jedi, what's with all the fun and gun? Ghey.

[stray]

Also, I thought Vader hunted down Jedi.

Does he? I thought that was just novelizations and/or SWG that would say that.

[Paelos]

Also, I thought Vader hunted down Jedi.

Does he? I thought that was just novelizations and/or SWG that would say that.

I'm not enough of a nerd to really care, it just struck me as kinda "overly dramatic for no reason"