Episode 3

[stray]

(..) grew on me with age.

Tred lightly - this ways lies bitterness that Lucas is light-weight entertainment rather than religious doctrine for He That Represents My Frustration With Maturity.

That would really hit home if you could say it in Yoda speak.

[Shockeye]

I'm going to see this in digital projection with my wife tonight.

If it sucks, I will say it. Often.

[stray]

If it sucks, I will say it. Often.

Go ahead if you think it does. Just don't exaggerate. Haters tend to do that all the time.

I'd like to see an honest, negative review of a movie for a change.

[Shockeye]

Star Wars Downloading Stealing Corporate Bandwidth

SecurityProNews | Staff Writer
2005-05-20

Organizations may experience a slow down across their networks and risk potential legal action from the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA) as Star Wars fans use the BitTorrent P2P file sharing application while at work to download and share copies of "Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith."

The final episode of the Star Wars series has been leaked onto the Internet only hours after the movie opened in theaters across the globe. It is being downloaded over the popular BitTorrent file-sharing network and it is reported that a version of the movie has already been downloaded by thousands of people.

The probability of Star Wars fans downloading the movie using easily accessible broadband access at work is high and this presents organizations with two key problems. The first is the corporate network struggling to cope with the abnormal load posed by the file sharing activities, which may adversely affect legitimate use of the network by sucking up too much bandwidth. The second is that organizations that do not take steps to prevent this pirating of the movie could be at risk of legal action by the MPAA.

"BitTorrent has absolutely no legitimate use in corporate networks and CIOs and IT managers should be extremely wary of its presence within the enterprise," said Peter Shaw, CEO of Akonix Systems, Inc. "This latest Star Wars episode is causing great excitement among movie fans so it's inevitable there will be high demand for free copies of the movie. Organizations should immediately make sure that the use of BitTorrent and other file sharing applications are banned in company policies and enforcing this with a technology solution to block its use."

Products are available to help corporations defend themselves from file sharing abuse on the networks. Akonix L7 Enforcer provides protection against security risks and liability from the unauthorized use of the latest IM and P2P protocols, such as eDonkey and BitTorrent. Organizations which are unaware of the extent of IM and P2P file sharing use on their networks can determine this by using Akonix RogueAware, a free monitoring tool which detects and reports on IM and P2P activity.

[Margalis]

I'd like to see an honest, negative review of a movie for a change.

I've seen some negative reviews (like the one in EW) that seem pretty obvious. The EW review had problems with the dialog (everyone has problems with the dialog) and the fact that Anakin's descent into Vaderism wasn't particularly believable or well-explained. (I imagine that varies widely based on viewer)

For the most part it seems to me people know what to expect out of this movie. A rousing end to Star Wars that is much better than Eps 1 and 2 but suffers from bad dialog, especially romance-related dialog. What a lot of people DON'T understand is why the first 2 were so awful and why all the interesting parts were saved for the 3rd one. Seriously, NOTHING happened in TPM at all that couldn't be summed up in 10 seconds of narration.

One thing you can say about the original trilogy is that the first one was a movie on it's own that also left the door open for a sequel, and the second was not really a movie on it's own but was damn fine. Neither of the new trilogy first 2 movies are movies on their own *or* good. Both of them are simply setups and bad ones at that.

----

My favorite part of Star Wars was in Empire when Vader was kicking Luke's ass and started making toaster ovens fly around and bonk him. I guess it's sort of like the Dragon Ball Z thing where guys power up and rocks start rising from the earth, it's sort of more abstract that blue lightening bolts or light sabers but also more grounded in reality and primal. In that scene the force was not a stupid parlor trick (getting your lightsaber back, "force pushing" over some retarded droids) or some laser beam bullshit, it was really a force of nature. I don't like it when the force is portrayed as a magic trick or a simple tool, I'd rather the force be a true force.

[Riggswolfe]

I'd like to see an honest, negative review of a movie for a change.

I've seen some negative reviews (like the one in EW) that seem pretty obvious. The EW review had problems with the dialog (everyone has problems with the dialog) and the fact that Anakin's descent into Vaderism wasn't particularly believable or well-explained. (I imagine that varies widely based on viewer)

I stopped reading EW because of their reviews. Especially the ones by Lisa Swarzbaum. She is all that is bad about movie critics in one person. Almost every review of hers I ever read made me want to tear the magazine into little pieces.

[stray]

My favorite part of Star Wars was in Empire when Vader was kicking Luke's ass and started making toaster ovens fly around and bonk him. I guess it's sort of like the Dragon Ball Z thing where guys power up and rocks start rising from the earth, it's sort of more abstract that blue lightening bolts or light sabers but also more grounded in reality and primal. In that scene the force was not a stupid parlor trick (getting your lightsaber back, "force pushing" over some retarded droids) or some laser beam bullshit, it was really a force of nature. I don't like it when the force is portrayed as a magic trick or a simple tool, I'd rather the force be a true force.

I thought the force stuff with Sidius (sp?) and Yoda was very much in the spirit of that. I'm glad it isn't portrayed that way too much though. Then it'd be overused.

EDIT: As for Anakin's descent, I bought into it. Maybe because I was expecting much worse.

At least the reason here is consistent with what a character like Yoda would say: Greed and a sense of possesion leads to the "path of the Dark Side". For someone who's already lost a lot (due to slavery or the death of his mother), it's easy to see how he could be seduced.

I even thought the romance stuff wasn't too bad. There were actually some decent moments in there imo. Not as ridiculous and juvenile as AotC.

[Rasix]

I liked it.  It was better than 1 & 2 by quite a huge margin.  There were a couple laughably bad lines and the Frankenvader scene was pretty horrible, but it was a decent flick and one I would eagerly see again in the theatres.

[Samprimary]

http://www.flapdoodle.org/sw/SW_ep3_trailer_captioned.wmv

[Abagadro]

I was thinking about this some more and what a wasted opportunity Lucas had with 1 and 2.  The whole "find 8 year old Anakin" stuff from TPM could have been 30 minutes, maybe 45 of Movie 1. Jetison all of the Jar Jar Gungan bullshit altogether. Have the second half of one be a serious challenge that Anakin has to face and helps overcome. It could be 10 years later than finding him as a young jedi. Heck, have him face Darth Maul and get messed up a bit there instead of at the end of 2 with Dooku. Show that he is powerful, but impulsive and reckless. Movie 2 is all about Palpatine starting to manipulate him. This could be contrasted with his relationship with Padme.  Essentially a dual seduction.  The meta-plot about separatists/clone army/consolidation of power by Palpatine could be the backdrop, but the core of the film could be about the tensions pulling Anakin in different directions. The third film could be almost identical with Palpatine finally turning Anakin to the dark side through the culmination of his manipulation.  It wouldn't be as quick a transition (which is one of my complaint of the movie afte rmuch thought) and the buildup would be much better for the ultimate payoff.  It would have more emotional resonace and make more sense.


But I've had too many Gin and Tonics tonight, so this may not make any sense whatsoever.

[stray]

But I've had too many Gin and Tonics tonight, so this may not make any sense whatsoever.

Nah, it makes sense, I think. In other words, the bulk of the trilogy pretty much should have been RotS itself?

EDIT:

SPOILER

Off topic a bit, but I have to mention that part when Palpatine talked about that Sith (and his apprentice) who could "create life from Midochlorians"?

That just brings up more questions. Was Sidius actually the apprentice he was referring to? And if he had that power, was he the reason why Anakin's mother had a "virgin birth"?

*sigh*

Not that I hate it or anything. I thought that opera house scene was actually really good filmmaking (especially considering that it was from Lucas).

But the line confuses me. If it means what I think it means, it puts the whole damn thing in a different light. I don't what the "plot" is when it comes down to it....Let alone how I think it should be improved.

[Abagadro]

I think all that stuff was BS just to get Anakin on the hook.

[Margalis]

Yeah, your gin and tonic induced rambling is what I was thinking. (Note: I haven't seen 3 yet) You can't have two films that are purely setup. I really cannot remember what TPM was about. All the Jar Jar tripe was just useless, and the pod race existed solely to sell the pod race video game and show off the new digital technology stuff. Basically all that happened in TPM was they found the kid with the high midi-chlorian count. The end.

And the kid in TPM did not seem messed up in any way. My parents weren't killed by sand raiders (or whatever the backstory there is) but I was more messed up that age than he was. There wasn't really any sign of anger or repressed anything, at least not that I can remember. If the movie was going to stick with child Anakin the whole time, which I don't think was a bad idea on it's own, what people took going out was that this kid was really gifted but also an unknown quantity.

Some people are just their own people. In a way I think that is what the story of Anakin is supposed to be. He doesn't buy into everything Jedi, or the people around him, he's just ruled by his baggage and whatever is going on inside of his head. And people like that can be incredibly promising and turn into amazing people, or turn into a total flameout. It's the difference between being crazy like a fox and just plain crazy. A lot of the great people throughout history fit that mold where they exist "outside the box" (for lack of a better term) and always seem to be on the brink of just doing something wacky. And true or not, great genius is often associated with eccentricity, odd behavior and minor dementia.

---

The story I would like to see is a little less black and white than what is being presented. How about this: Anakin is recognized as a child with incredible potential and is used by the Jedis in a calculated manner in a way that is justifiable on a global level but not on a personal one. Seeing the risk for flameout they try to control him in a way that comes off as somewhat manipulative and condescending. And so in trying to save him from himself they inadvertently plant seeds of distrust and piss him off. I see a little bit of that in the movies as they are made, but only a tiny bit.

Speaking as someone with a somewhat uneven temperment, I will say that someone can realize they are a little bit crazy but reminding them of that or "helping" them with that often has the opposite of the intended effect. Some people just seem destined to flame out, and best efforts only accelerate that. I don't like the idea that Anakin is somehow seduced or tricked into becoming evil by some creepy guy whispering to him. I'd much rather see it as here's a guy who knows he has issues but takes things the wrong way and in the end takes the easy way out by becoming a simple conduit for his negative emotion. If the whole world is against me, then I'm against the whole world, and especially against the most self-reightous.

And again, I haven't seen the third and I have read that there is at least some element of that, but it certainly didn't play out well over the first 2 movies.


Edit: A problem with these movies in general is that the main character turns out to be an evil bastard, but he has to be a sympathetic character for most of the movies as he is the central character. In some ways they marginalized his role in the first movie so that Obie-Wan and that other Jedi guy could be the focal characters.

I think everyone knows that guy who could be destined for greatness but has demons that end up ruling their lives instead. To me that's a tragic story. It's not a story of a guy getting tricked into being evil, or a guy whining a lot, or a guy being created from midi-chlorians or some horseshit like that. In the end the guy may embrace "the dark side" because he's too far gone, that's his bed and he's got to lie in it - but nobody just says one day "I'm going to go evil!" Maybe when you've already passed the point of no return your only choices are to accept it or go crazy, or some of both.

[schild]

The Pod Racer video game was the best thing that ever came out of Star Wars. Period. Including Episode V - the movie itself.

[stray]

Some people are just their own people. In a way I think that is what the story of Anakin is supposed to be.

The story I would like to see is a little less black and white than what is being presented. How about this: Anakin is recognized as a child with incredible potential and is used by the Jedis in a calculated manner in a way that is justifiable on a global level but not on a personal one. Seeing the risk for flameout they try to control him in a way that comes off as somewhat manipulative and condescending. And so in trying to save him from himself they inadvertently plant seeds of distrust and piss him off. I see a little bit of that in the movies as they are made, but only a tiny bit.

This is a lot of what it's about. At least that's how I see it (though I'll say again, I'm still confused with a lot of it).

*another spoiler*

That whole "brings balance to the force" thing: It's becomes apparent that it's not meant to be exactly how the Jedi Council would interpret it.  Once everything is put within the context of RotS (including all the way up to end of Return of the Jedi), Vader comes off as the least "black" or "white" character of them all.

[schild]

Not much of a spoiler. Palpatine is evil. Luke is good. Vader was always grey-line. And for much of the original 3 movies he was nothing more than a lapdog.

[stray]

Not much of a spoiler. Palpatine is evil. Luke is good. Vader was always grey-line. And for much of the original 3 movies he was nothing more than a lapdog.

Yeah, I just put the spoiler thing there just in case.

This is a spoiler (I think)

*spoiler*

All I'm saying is that whether he does evil or good, Vader is primarily motivated from individual desires (i.e. love). He falls because of it (whether that be because of Padme or his Mother...or even the desire for "galactic peace"), and ends up redeeming himself because of it (love for Luke).

As far who the "goody two shoes" is, I don't think it was Luke really. It's Mace.

In the end, Luke is decidely different than any of the Jedi before him. He has just as many desires and attachments as Vader ever did, but without going overboard on that either. He's a result of the balance.

Then again, I'm probably just full of shit, because I'm just thinking this out while I write 

[Abagadro]

This made me giggle for some reason (probably the gin, now augmented by a couple of beers):

http://darthno.ytmnd.com/

[stray]

http://cnnoooooooo.ytmnd.com/

This made me giggle more.

[Abagadro]

Ok, that made me guffaw, then be wracked with laughter induced coughs.

[SurfD]

Very few things bothered me about episode 3.  The one that keeps popping into my head over and over again (having seen the movie about 6 times now) is the scene near the beginning after their first run in with grevious.  Grevious has just escaped, everyone is abandoning ship, and Anakin and Obi-wan take 5 or 6 seconds to mercilessly slaughter the entire crew of operations droids!.  I mean, what the hell? As far as i can tell these are non combat droids, whos job was to pilot the ship, and the Jedi just casually slice and dice em.  What was up with that?

The other thing that gets me is the whole "you were the chosen one" deal.  Did it never occur to ANY of these idiots that when you talk about "balancing the force" and on your scales you have hundreds of Jedi VS maybe a dozen Sith, that "wipeing out the sith" isnt exactly going to tip the scales towards any kind of balance?

[Abagadro]

You've seen this thing 6 times already?

[schild]

IIRC, Surf works parttime at a movie theater.

Edit: As a fellow popcorn pusher, I know only a theater employee would use the word "about" when describing how many times they've seen a movie.

[Margalis]

In the end, Luke is decidely different than any of the Jedi before him. He has just as many desires and attachments as Vader ever did, but without going overboard on that either. He's a result of the balance.

IMO, the best balance would be for every force user, good or bad, to be dead at the end. Because Luke is just that annoying. Luke is clearly a dyed through and through good guy and although there is a lot of talk about "giving in to the dark side" he never really *does* anything other than get slightly upset.

I always found it cheesy that the dark side is somehow an actual aspect of the force, rather than the person.

[SurfD]

IIRC, Surf works parttime at a movie theater.

Edit: As a fellow popcorn pusher, I know only a theater employee would use the word "about" when describing how many times they've seen a movie.

Yeah, that about summs it up.  When you work in projection with a regular show schedule, strange things happen.  Like the week i managed to catche the Neo vs 100 smiths fight about 30 or so times, in its entirety.

[Shockeye]

My official Episode 3 review: meh.

[Llava]

I enjoyed it.  I thought it was a very entertaining movie and it exceeded my (admittedly low) expectations.

Now, on to the plot holes, spoilers ahoy:

1) Hypocritical philosophies.  This is less of a plot hole, but it still bugged me.  Anakin says, "If you're not with me, then you're my enemy."  Obi-Wan responds, "Only the Sith deal in absolutes."  A little bit later, Obi-Wan is talking about how he's on the right side, the side of good.  Anakin says, "From my point of view, my side is the right one."  And Obi-Wan says something to the effect of, "Well then I gotta pwn you."  Dude, you JUST said that absolutes are bad, then you go ahead and apply absolutes to your moral judgement.  Pft.

2) So okay.  Qui-Gon Jin or however it's spelled discovered the disappearing body blue glowy ghost trick.  Did he do this in the afterlife?  How long did it take him?  Cause Vader goes blue-glowy ghost at the end of Return of the Jedi.  Like... later in the same day that he died.  Also, his body didn't vanish when he did go blue glowy.  Wha?  So did he create his own technique for it?  Is he just an insanely fast learner when it comes to blue-glowiness and a slow learner when it comes to body-vanishing?

3) Minor, but someone else mentioned it to me and I thought it was a decent point.  How come everyone seems to be able to understand R2D2 pretty well in episodes 1-3, whereas episodes 4-6 require C3PO to translate?

Couple questions I noted above:

There are only 2 Sith at any given time.  Master and Apprentice.  The life-sustaining Sith that Sidius was describing, Plagus (I'm guessing on spelling), was probably Sidius's mentor.  He made it sound that way, anyhow.  Notice how he mentioned that his student killed him in his sleep.  He seemed a little too pleased with that.  Sort of an, "Ah, memories" moment there.  So we're looking at:
Plagus>Sidius
Sidius kills Plagus.
Sidius>Maul
Obi-Wan kills Maul.
Sidius>Tyranus (aka, Dooku)
Anakin kills Tyranus.
Sidius>Vader
Then just Vader for a few minutes.
Then poof, no more Sith.

I thought one more thing was a bit odd.  Again, spoiler here.

Weird that the Jedi leaders are breaking their own rules so much in this movie, driving Anakin to doubt them.  First with the spying, which Anakin says isn't the Jedi way, then when Mace Windu wants to execute Sidius on the spot instead of giving him trial- again, Anakin says it's not the Jedi way and Windu doesn't argue but doesn't seem to care.  On the one hand, props to Lucas for driving Anakin to the Dark Side by protecting the very rules meant to prevent that... on the other hand, what?  If that really was the Jedi way, why didn't Windu go through with that?  Hell, he's a Jedi Master, he should know better and have better control.  I don't buy that he didn't. Luke trying to bend the rules by striking Sidius down (and being prevented by Poppa in RotJ) I can believe, but not a Jedi Master.  Similarly, I don't buy that Yoda would so casually break the Jedi code by having Anakin spy on Palpatine like that.  He's friggin Yoda.

Some bad acting made it to the screen... you've heard about the love scenes and such, and that's to be expected.  I thought Palpatine's performance was back and forth- sometimes good, sometimes just plain cheesy.  At some points he came off as if he were throwing a very child-like temper tantrum.

One final thing-
Come ON guys, the fact that Anakin is the ONE guy in your temple wearing a black robe doesn't tip you off?  Christ, that should be the first Jedi test.  "Which robe would you prefer: this one or....... this one?"
"Hm............. I don't know... I kinda like the br... well, no, I think I'd like the black one."
BZZSH, WWWRRROW, THUD.
"Man, it's WAY easier killing the Sith when they're young before we give them all that... you know, training and lightsabres and stuff."

[AOFanboi]

3) Minor, but someone else mentioned it to me and I thought it was a decent point.  How come everyone seems to be able to understand R2D2 pretty well in episodes 1-3, whereas episodes 4-6 require C3PO to translate?

Luke understands him - ref the trip to Dagobah in Episode V.

Unless he's looking at some translating thingy in the X-Wing.

[Ironwood]

Yeah, he was.

[SurfD]

There are only 2 Sith at any given time.  Master and Apprentice. 

Pretty sure that this was not an absolute in reference to the ENTIRE galaxy, but rather just the relationship between Sith: Ie, if you find one, chances are there will be at least 1 more somewhere, a master always has an apprentice, and vice versa.

ofcourse, this is all dependant on your views on "cannon" material and extended universe and whatnot.

[Murgos]

There are only 2 Sith at any given time.  Master and Apprentice.  The life-sustaining Sith that Sidius was describing, Plagus (I'm guessing on spelling), was probably Sidius's mentor.  He made it sound that way, anyhow.  Notice how he mentioned that his student killed him in his sleep.  He seemed a little too pleased with that.  Sort of an, "Ah, memories" moment there.  So we're looking at:
Plagus>Sidius
Sidius kills Plagus.
Sidius>Maul
Obi-Wan kills Maul.
Sidius>Tyranus (aka, Dooku)
Anakin kills Tyranus.
Sidius>Vader
Then just Vader for a few minutes.
Then poof, no more Sith.

I don't think you can get rid of the Sith, really.  They will invent themselves from within the ranks of the Jedi.  Some Jedi will eventually give into his baser emotions and then the whole thing starts again.

Also, Sidious does figure out the extending life thing, at least in the EU, he is described as feeding off the life of millions in order ot extend his own life and increase his powers.

[Shockeye]

Perhaps some of the reasons for me having really no feeling at all about Episode 3 comes from seeing it in digital projection.

The film felt dead even with all the action. Perhaps I've grown tired of CGI shot after CGI shot.

I was very underwhelmed by the whole thing.

[stray]

I enjoyed it.  I thought it was a very entertaining movie and it exceeded my (admittedly low) expectations.

Now, on to the plot holes, spoilers ahoy:

1) Hypocritical philosophies.  This is less of a plot hole, but it still bugged me.  Anakin says, "If you're not with me, then you're my enemy."  Obi-Wan responds, "Only the Sith deal in absolutes."  A little bit later, Obi-Wan is talking about how he's on the right side, the side of good.  Anakin says, "From my point of view, my side is the right one."  And Obi-Wan says something to the effect of, "Well then I gotta pwn you."  Dude, you JUST said that absolutes are bad, then you go ahead and apply absolutes to your moral judgement.  Pft.

Lucas never said the Jedi were "right", or that the prophecy was in their favor. We just assume so, because they were the ones who latched on to the idea. Hence, why I said earlier that Vader never really did fail on his promise of being the "chosen one". It just takes all 6 films to see that.

[stray]

In the end, Luke is decidely different than any of the Jedi before him. He has just as many desires and attachments as Vader ever did, but without going overboard on that either. He's a result of the balance.

IMO, the best balance would be for every force user, good or bad, to be dead at the end. Because Luke is just that annoying.

You might want to just avoid this movie entirely then. Or, you could just wait for the "Adventures of Young Han Solo" TV show or something.

As far as the films go, including this one, they're about Jedi (whether you care to admit it or not).

[Abagadro]

Sidius>Vader
Then just Vader for a few minutes.
Then poof, no more Sith.

Vader was his apprentice for around 20 years. Vader wanted Luke to join him as his apprentice in ESB and overthrow Sidious.