So how bout them Yankees

[Kenrick]

The Astros started using the cool new star logo in 1994; Lockheed and Martin-Marietta didn't merge until 1995.
Bruce

Cool?

I think what Bruce was trying to do was defend the creators of the "open star" Astros logo.  Perhaps he was saying that it was Lockheed who actually stole the logo from the Astros.  In any case, logo schmogo.  All I care about is that the Astros start winning again.  Taking 2 out of 3 against the Angels is a start.  Meanwhile, the Cardinals and Cubs are playing like there's a fire lit under their asses.

[SirBruce]

Well, Cubs have pulled ahead of the Cards in the HR race by 6, but Cards are ahead of the Cubs in the division by 6 games, so I'm satisfied. :)

Bruce

[HaemishM]

Sod off, you fruity Cardinals fan you.

I'm still waiting for the Cubs to catch fire while the Cards simultaneously combust. I could be waiting until next season the way the Cubbies have played this week.

[WayAbvPar]

To be fair- St. Louis had the major advantage of having the geriatric Mariners stumble into town last week. The Cubs haven't seen easy pickings like that.

[SirBruce]

To be fair- St. Louis had the major advantage of having the geriatric Mariners stumble into town last week. The Cubs haven't seen easy pickings like that.

Yeah, but they also got steamrolled by the fucking Pirates.

Bruce

[HaemishM]

And then we got steamrolled by the fucking Brewers.

I swear, being a Cubs fan is like being a coke junkie; some unbelievable highs followed by the most depressing lows.

[Kenrick]

And then we got steamrolled by the fucking Brewers.

I swear, being a Cubs fan is like being a coke junkie; some unbelievable highs followed by the most depressing lows.

Try being a stros fan.

[WayAbvPar]

And then we got steamrolled by the fucking Brewers.

I swear, being a Cubs fan is like being a coke junkie; some unbelievable highs followed by the most depressing lows.

Try being a stros fan.

I think that is better than being a Stroh's fan. At least for your gastro-intestinal system.

[SirBruce]

Well, now that the Cards have just about got the division locked up, all we need to do is pick up another ace starter for the post-season and we're set.

Good luck next year, Cubs and Astros fans!

Bruce

[Joe]

Of course, the Cards are in trade negotiation with the Phillies to trade Matt Morris for some...thing. That could sting, since that guy's been a beast of a pitcher this year.

Giving up good starting pitching for anything less than Wagner is stupid with a capital "fuck I don't like the playoffs."

[SirBruce]

In all of the rumored trades, the cards would be getting a good pitcher in return (Kris Benson, Kevin Millwood, etc.) in the trade.  However, the Cards have reportedly turned down these offers.  There is also some talk that Morris is secretly injured, which is why the Cards may be willing to deal him.

Bruce

[Kenrick]

Good luck next year, Cubs and Astros fans!

Ah, but you forget the wild card.  Both the Astros and Cubs (potential wild cards) are teams which, if healthy and not slumping, could be a formidable opponent for in a 5 or 7 game series.  Cubs would use a rotation of Wood, Prior, Maddux (Clement if necessary); Astros would use a rotation of Oswalt, Clemens, Pettitte (Miller if necessary).

The season's not over yet.  We as Astros fans know what an incredible disappointment our team has been, you don't have to tell us twice ... or even once.  But the owner and GM have not given up on the team, there will be no mid-season fire sale.  This coming Wednesday, after the All-Star game, Houston will fire Jimy Williams (mark my word) and begin the second half of the season with a manager who is not the most incompetent moron in baseball.  There is definitely reason to have hope, especially since the Astros have always been a notorious second-half team.  Hopefully their new manager will be able to light a fire under their asses, because god knows they have good talent on the field.  They've just been despondent with fucktard at the helm.

Congrats to the Cards.

[Teleku]

Carefull with the smack talk.  Theres still the entire other half of the season to go.  A lot can happen in that time, especially if all your pitching begins to play like they normally do.  I wouldn't say you have the divsion locked yet.  That whole division is a battleground with the types of teams you have running around, and any one of them could surge back (Well, maybe not the Pirates...)

Keep in mind, this is comming from a Giants fan on the west coast.  Our division remans damn close between us, LA, and SD.

[HaemishM]

Forget the wild card. There is no way, even with a 7 game lead that the Cards have this thing sewed up at the All-Star break.

The Cubs have Wood and Prior back. Give them a few starts to catch fire. What the Cubs really need is (I can't believe I'm saying this) Alex Gonzalez back. His defense up the middle is invaluable. Failing that, trade for Orlando Cabrera from Montreal. They are really missing good defense up the middle. If the Cubs can get a leadoff hitter, it's over, 7 games or no.

I still maintain that the Cards pitching is going to wither by the end of the season, especially the starters. Having such good defense behind them has helped them a whole bunch, but I don't think they have the arms to succeed.

And please, PLEASE let the Cards trade for Kevin Millwood. That overrated ass clown would ensure the Cubs the division.

[SirBruce]

The big lead is good enough to crown the Yankees, but not the Cardinals?

I don't deny that it could still be a competitive division, and certainly teams have fallen from bigger leads in the past.  But I don't think that's going to happen now.

Bruce

[HaemishM]

I'm not giving the East to the Yankees, either. Though the way Boston has putzed around, maybe I should. I don't think there are any races set in stone yet.

[Teleku]

Yeah, I'm not crowning the Yankees as the division winners either, since they have an even smaller lead.  However, you do have to admit, the Yankees have set a precident in the pass, with the 2,000 odd division titles, and endless world series wins, to show that the chances of anybody winning that division other than the Yankees is small.  Especially with the team they bought this year.

The Cards don't really quite have that sort of reputation, do they?  So you can't really fault people crowning the Yankees the division title long before anybody does the Cards.  However, funny enouph, I actually somewhat agree with you.  The Cards amazing offense will probably pound them through the divion, even if there pitching gets even worst.  Which means they will probably get worked in the playoffs, but still....

[SirBruce]

The Cards don't really quite have that sort of reputation, do they?

Er... the Yankees have been in 39 World Series and won 26.  Guess who is #2?  That's right... the Cardinals have been in 15, and won 9.  Yankees have won like 41 pennants and the Cardinals have won 15, which is third behind the Dodgers' 18.

After the Yankees, the Cardinals are probably the most successful franchise in MLB history.

Bruce

[Kenrick]

All I hear is blah blah blahblah blah.

[Margalis]

Recently the Cards have been post-season fizzlers. In terms of the past 4 years or so, the Cards have been a pretty good team overall. One of the most consistent NL teams. But they haven't done much in the post-season (recently), which I think limits people's expectations for them.

It also doesn't help that their supposed ace (Matt Morris) is their worst starting pitcher. You would *think* that he would be a barometer for the pitching staff. I think most people assumed he would have to have a good year for them to do well, and he hasn't had a particularly good year.

Finally, the Red Sox are chokers and have terrible defense, which certainly makes the Yanks look like winners in the East. And the Red Sox have the ability to hire horrible managers. (You guys in Houston are stuck with one right now)

Recently the Red Sox trend has been whenever they need a manager they go hire a guy who has all the same issues that got the last guy fired.

[Teleku]

Hmm, I stand corrected.  I could have sworn some other teams had more world series wins than the cards, but it would appear you are correct.  I guess its just all those post season fizzles that give them the bad impression in my mind.  Sadly, the same thing always happens my Giants....

Though, there is the fact that the Cards history goes to 1900, which is the span that stat accounts for.  If you count the Giants franchise from 1900, for instance, they have 18 pennants, but in New York till 1958.  Also, the A's would tie you with 9 WS wins and 15 pennants since 1901.

[Kenrick]

And the Red Sox have the ability to hire horrible managers. (You guys in Houston are stuck with one right now)

Not for long.  As soon as the ASG was over last night the Houston Chronicle came out with a pretty nifty article with good evidence about how Phil Garner is going to take 1m's job.  I expect the official announcement to come sometime later today.  Must have been pretty embarassing last night for the Astros' manager to get a louder chorus of boo's in his own stadium than even Barry Bonds or any Yankee.

[SirBruce]

Did Clemens totally choke last night or what?  I'd almost think Piazza sabotaged him, but it was Clemens who was shaking him off and insisting on throwing a slider that wasn't breaking right.

As for the Cards, sure they've fizzled a lot in the post-season... that's because they GET to the post-season so much.  Since 1996 they've gotten in 4 times and 3 times gotten to the second round.  What qualifies as success, actually getting to the WS?  That's been a different team every year since 97!  Atlanta are even bigger fizzlers, but  I think getting to the postseason consistently is more impressive than a team that gets to it once or twice and survives to the WS.

Not that the Giants and Houston haven't had some success as well.

Bruce

[Kenrick]

Every pitcher has rough outings -- Roger had one in a game that doesn't really matter (i don't buy the HFA shit).  

Oh, and I called this one.

[HaemishM]

ESPN is reporting on Williams' firing and replacement by Garner as well.

Though I think Williams has been used as a scapegoat, the numbers don't lie. Of course, no one talks about how Bagwell can't even throw the fucking ball because his shoulder hurts so bad yet he hasn't been on the DL, how old the team has gotten or how much stupid money was sunk into Richard Hidalgo, not to mention shipping their closer to the Phillies before the year started. It wasn't all Williams' fault.

[Margalis]

The problem with Bags is that putting him on the DL won't help, he has some major damage or some degenerative condition or something. But, if there is one guy on your team with a terrible throwing arm, first base is probably the best scenario.

[Kenrick]

Jimy can't be blamed for everything that's gone wrong, of course.  But yes his record does lie.  Do some research on his past teams on how he's driven talent into the ground before.  It's disturbing.

The Astros still have a talented lineup/rotation.  Hopefully old Scrapiron will be able to re-light that fire under their ass and get back to winning.

As for Bags, he should have retired a year or 2 ago.  It hurts to see him play this year.  Obviously he can't throw.  His hitting looks awful.  Part of me is almost hoping for a season-ending injury so we can plug in someone else at 1B.

[SirBruce]

Awesome Cards-Cubs game tonight.  The air was electric.  Can't wait until tomorrow!  Can you say best record in baseball?

Bruce

[SirBruce]

Wow, and I thought last night's game was the best.  Today's was even better!

Albert Pujols, baby!

Bruce

[WayAbvPar]

Pujols is impressive, that is for damned sure. Looks like the Cubbies better start eyeing the wildcard...10 games is a pretty big lead for a team as solid as the Cardinals. Their pitching can still crap the bed with the best of them, though, so it might not quite be over yet.

[SirBruce]

The question now isn't whether or not the Cards will win the division, but how far they'll make it in the post-season where pitching becomes even more important.

I think they can make it to the World Series, but I don't think they'll beat their opponent, unless it's somehow the Twins.

Bruce

[HaemishM]

I have to say the Cubs are really starting to disappoint me. Their weaknesses this year have been made even more prominent by their injuries. They so need a real leadoff hitter and decent middle relief, which has been strained by the lack of Wood and Prior. I'm crossing my fingers that they trade for Orlando Cabrera to replace Alex Gonzalez or get someone like Finley for the stretch run. My God, they have the RBI guys in Sosa, Alou, Ramirez and Lee, they just have shit for table-setters. If I see Corey Patterson swing at one more goddamn letter high fastball outside, I'm going postal.

[Kenrick]

Juilian Tavarez is a turd.  I've always hated that little whiny bitch, all the way back to when he was with Cleveland.  I don't care if his hat was being used to doctor the ball or not -- he is a little whiny bitch turd and I hate him.  Even if he were an Astro, I'd hate him.  I will hate him until he is 6' under, and then I will hate this children.

[Kenrick]

whiny bitch

[HaemishM]

Somehow, the Cards still haven't folded. Their pitching has lasted. I'm not sure it's geared for a 7-game postseason series, but then I didn't expect them to have a winning record either.

Meanwhile, the Cubs continue to putter around the wild card, having lost all drive for the division about 7 games ago. I know their bullpen blows; way too inconsistent. Defense is shaky. Patterson is doing well as a leadoff man, but he could take a dive any day now. It's going to be an Alka-Seltzer September and October.