So how bout them Yankees

[Kenrick]

As much as I like this years Astros team, they've surprised and disappointment me with their inconsistancy so far this season.  5-1 on the road, 4-5 at home... They swept the Cards in St. Louis, now they're on the verge of the being swept by said team in their own stadium.  They're still 3 over .500, tied for first, but I'm not sure what's going on with them.  The only thing any of us can really do, besides wave cocks in this thread, is just watch the season unfold.  It will be a hell of a race.  We know Chicago and Houston will be up there, but there might be some sleepers.  In any case, my participation in this thread is over until late August. :)  It's hard to keep this type of projection/prediction discussion up for 5 months.

Edit:  Oswalt's pitching tonight, so the odds of a sweep for STL are fairly low.

[Teleku]

Or so you thought.

[SirBruce]

Well, Oswalt DID pitch well.

Cardinals are really good in extra-inning games, though.  Have been for as long as I can remember.

Bruce

[HaemishM]

The Cardinals are in a park that is not conducive to massive home run totals, while the Cubs are in a hitter's dream ball park. Guys like Lee, Ramirez and Patterson will have career years from this, as well as from the fact that the other guys in the lineup will be mashing too.

Don't be convinced that Gonzalez's hitting will continue. He is a streak hitter. First year with the Cubs he hit like .400 in April, and ended up with a .230 batting average or some such. He can pound out about 15 HR's, but they'll be in bunches. When he gets hot, he can pound the ball, but when he's cold, he whiffs at EVERYTHING. He's only there because of his defense, and if he keeps booting the ball like he did in Game 6 of the Marlin's series last year  FUCKHATEKILLDEATHMURDREIORJEOUR#*()$... sorry, it wasn't the Bartman foul ball that lost the Cubs that series, it was Gonzalez's boot. Fucking tool. Where was I?

Maddux WILL get back on track. He's not pitching well right now, but he turned it around after April or May last year. He's going to help guys like Clement and Zambrano learn to be better pitchers. If he wins only 10 games, his clubhouse presence will stay pay dividends.

Astros pitching staff sounds good, but everyone on it besides Clemens has had arm troubles (I think). And Dotel is not a sure thing as a closer. That's also a hitter's ball park.

It's going to be a fabulous year.

[Mr_PeaCH]

It's the PADRES year, bitches!!!1

<Thusly does Mr_PeaCH seal his team's doom on April 23 by randomly spouting off on a message board>

[HaemishM]

It's the PADRES year, bitches!!!1

<Thusly does Mr_PeaCH seal his team's doom on April 23 by randomly spouting off on a message board>

Oh please. Like their doom wasn't sealed at strike one Opening Day.

[WayAbvPar]

It's the PADRES year, bitches!!!1

<Thusly does Mr_PeaCH seal his team's doom on April 23 by randomly spouting off on a message board>

Oh please. Like their doom wasn't sealed at strike one Opening Day.

I think it was when the wall in foul territory in right field at Petco started devouring fielders. That thing is a fucking death trap.

[Teleku]

You have to give Bonds credit when a team is so scared of him, they build a whole new ball park and specifically "Bonds Profed It" as they have been saying here in San Diego.  That whole right field is just fucked up, you could get lost out there.  Much as it pains me, being a Giants fan going to college in San Diego, I think the Padres have a really good chance of taking the division this year.  They have an all around great line up, and their usually craptacular pitching has come together.  At least I can still pray for another Dodgers melt down.  Bastards.

[SirBruce]

The Cardinals are in a park that is not conducive to massive home run totals, while the Cubs are in a hitter's dream ball park. Guys like Lee, Ramirez and Patterson will have career years from this, as well as from the fact that the other guys in the lineup will be mashing too.

How is this relevant?  First, you have to play half your games in another park.  Second, you predict home runs based on past season's success, so unless you've got a guy moving from Dodger Stadium to Wrigley, you can't really say he's going to hit more HRs.  I always consider Wrigley more of a neutral park than a hitter's park, honestly, as is Busch.  Houston, though, definitely a hitter's park.

I guess if McGwire and Bonds had been Cubs, Sosa wouldn't have even been close, eh? ;)

Bruce

[The Hanged Man]

The Cardinals are in a park that is not conducive to massive home run totals, while the Cubs are in a hitter's dream ball park. Guys like Lee, Ramirez and Patterson will have career years from this, as well as from the fact that the other guys in the lineup will be mashing too.

How is this relevant?  First, you have to play half your games in another park.  Second, you predict home runs based on past season's success, so unless you've got a guy moving from Dodger Stadium to Wrigley, you can't really say he's going to hit more HRs.  I always consider Wrigley more of a neutral park than a hitter's park, honestly, as is Busch.  Houston, though, definitely a hitter's park.

Bruce

Busch is being torn down after this year and will be replaced with a new stadium. So its anyone's guess what the Cards Stadium will be next year. The Cards do have an unusually loyal following here in St Louis.  What hurts the Cardinals is their pitchin is so uneven they can score ten runs on any team but also they can give up ten runs to any team too.

[HaemishM]

Except on the days when the wind is blowing in off the lake, Wrigley is a known hitter's park. Short fences, plus when the wind is blowing out, everything flies. Barring injury, guys like Lee, Ramirez and Patterson, who already have decent (20 HR) power will more than likely hit more out. It's similar to how Fenway produces more doubles off the Green Monster, or how Coors Field's "light air" produces more power for those hitters.

Meanwhile, in San Diego, those hitters will have a helluva time putting up any power. That place is just IMMENSE.

[Teleku]

Meanwhile, back at the original point of this thread: Ouch.  Thats 6 strikes.  Steinbrenner must really be pissed right now.

And in good Yankee's fan form, they booed the team.

[HaemishM]

You know you're sucking wind when the Yankees' fans even booed Derek Jeter.

[Arcadian Del Sol]

All I ask is that Mussina be laughed out of professional baseball.
He's well on his way.

[WayAbvPar]

It couldn't be happening to a nicer bunch of smarmy, cocky assholes.

[HaemishM]

Funny how teams get better the year after they get rid of A. Rod.

[daveNYC]

Funny how teams get better the year after they get rid of A. Rod.

Have the Rangers de-sucked?

[HaemishM]

You tell me.

Seattle won 116 games the year AFTER they let A. Rod go. Texas trades him and not only do the Yankees start sucking (though it was probably coming for a while), but Texas goes to first place.

[WayAbvPar]

You tell me.

Seattle won 116 games the year AFTER they let A. Rod go. Texas trades him and not only do the Yankees start sucking (though it was probably coming for a while), but Texas goes to first place.

The way Seattle is running now, it might take them 3 seasons to win 116 games total. Old, slow, and shitty is no way to build a baseball team.

[SirBruce]

So maybe the Cardinals have a chance... they give up the most home runs, but they also hit more than anyone else, too.

Sorry, but they don't have a chance to beat the Cubs in home runs. The Cubs surprisingly have what is probably the most potent lineup in the NL, at least in theory.

The Cardinals are in a park that is not conducive to massive home run totals, while the Cubs are in a hitter's dream ball park. Guys like Lee, Ramirez and Patterson will have career years from this, as well as from the fact that the other guys in the lineup will be mashing too.

Hey Madman and HaemishM, how's that prediction working out for ya?

1. NYY - 61 G  90 HR  323 RBI  .447 SLG
2. CHW - 59 G  88 HR  322 RBI  .381 SLG
3. STL - 63 G  86 HR  319 RBI  .457 SLG
4. CHC - 61 G  83 HR  289 RBI  .456 SLG
5. TEX - 60 G  83 HR  310 RBI  .468 SLG

Bruce

[HaemishM]

Let's see, for the Cubs.

Sosa has missed about a month. Lee has been cold as a well-digger's nuts up until the last week (appaerently he doesn't get hot until June traditionally). Patterson has just been an absolute flop this year, and I was completely wrong on him. He can't stop himself from swinging at all the wrong times. He should be a .280/25-30 homer guy, but he's going to end up with more K's than RBI's. I still think if Baker would put him in the 6 hole and keep him there, he'd hit better, but that hasn't been the case.

Now that Pujols is hurt, you'll see the Cardinals start to taper off in homers. Edmonds has stayed healty, and that helps a great deal. Rolen has been a fucking madman. The thing that will break the Cards is their pitching; it just isn't going to be strong enough down the stretch. With Prior back, Wood hopefully getting healthy and Clement and Zambrano finally living up to their potential, I still think the Cubs will win the division. Cincy has been a pleasant surprise, but their pitching will not hold up.

[SirBruce]

Yeah, I agree, and said as much before... pitching is the flaw, as everyone knows.  Cincinatti is finally falling behind now that their pitching staff is sinking to their own level.  Still, given the Cubs struggles I see a possible race between St. Louis and Houston down to the wire.  The loser may even wind up in the Wild Card spot again.

But, my point before was, Cards are offensively very strong and when you guys said the Cubs would hit more home runs and the Cards couldn't compete on HR totals, well ... :)

Bruce

[Madman]

Well, I think the Cards have been overachiving with their lineup this year. Especially with Rolen having such a monster year. I know that the Cards can hit homers, but I honestly expected the Cubs to be doing better. So far it is close, but I still think the Cubs are going to pull it out in the end.

Especially since Ramirez is having a breakout season and Alou is still producing even though he was in a mini slump for a bit. Lee always needs to warm up and he seems to be doing that right now, so I expect to see him start hitting homers in bunches now. Sosa has been out for a month and he is another who tends to hit homers in bunches and usually during the middle to late summer. Barrett and Walker have both been real treats and as I said last night: I am so totally gay for Todd Walker. The one thing that I think really hurts that everyone has overlooked was Gonzalez going down. Gonzo was having a pretty good year and he definately provides more power than any of our other shortstop options.

Haemish, I don't think Patterson should be batting 6th at least when he is consistantly hitting. Gary Matthews needs to get Billy Williams out of the front office and they both need to take Patterson by the throat, slam him against a locker and tell him to stop fucking trying to hit every damn pitch out of the ball park. Patterson seriously has a Willie Mays Hayes syndrome, if he would learn to hit lots of line drives down the lines and in the gaps he would be such a better player. Patterson needs to stop thinking he is a number 3 hitter and realize that he would make the perfect number 2 hitter if he would only settle down, be patient and wait for the pitch he can drive. As it stands, Patterson needs to be batting maybe 7th or 8th until he stops swinging at pitches he needs a step ladder to hit.

[HaemishM]

The problem I've noticed with Patterson is he's a binary player. He either tries to be patient, in which case he takes everything until he gets two strikes and HAS to swing, or he's swinging for Waveland Avenue on every pitch. He has the athletic ability to hit anywhere in the lineup, but I don't think he can wrap his mind around actually watching the pitches.

[Madman]

Well Patterson is really a first ball fastball hitter and basically a fastball hitter in general. He is actually a lot like Alou in that respect, except that Alou can crush a hanging curve or slider where Patterson ends up swinging through it.

When Patterson gets a first ball fastball in his zone (or any fastball for that matter) he really crushes the ball, he just needs to realize that he has to wait for that fastball to come. The problem is that he doesn't seem to realize he can hit other pitches too and so he ends up waiting for the fastball (if he is being patient) or he ends up swinging at a bad curve or slider. I think part of the problem right now is that he is just trying to hard. He knows he was having a great season last year before he got injured and he wants to get back to that point again. If he would just relax and play the game the hitting would come back to him.

The other problem is that we have to keep Patterson. I have this feeling that if we trade him he is going to become the second coming of Lou Brock.

[Kenrick]

I take back anything good I ever said about the 2004 Houston Astros team.  They are a godawful pile of oozing shit and deserve to be contracted or moved to Canada.  What a miserable failure and monumental disappointment.  I know... it's just mid-June and they're still above .500, but for fucks sake they are terrible.  I'd be shocked if they finished the season with a winning record or in front of anyone in the standings save the Pirates.  Nice try, Drayton & co.  Go fuck yourself with a broken bat now.  kthx

[HaemishM]

Someone seems a bit pissy about getting swept 4 games in a row at home.

[Kenrick]

Pissy?  No.  And I wrote that before the sweep was complete btw.

I think that the Astros do have an on-field squad that should be able to contend for the NL Central crown.  The problem is in the dugout and in the high offices of the organization.  Some points:

-They did just get rid of Richard Hidalgo for minor bullpen support.  Wow, super.  Why didn't you think of that before you traded future-hall-of-fame closer (Billy Wagner) and kept an overpaid, underperforming outfielder (Hidalgo).

-Manager Jimy Williams sucks donkey balls.  Period.  No debate.  I don't care that my best friend's girlfriend is best friends with Williams' daughter (hope you followed that) -- get rid of the bastard.  Bring back Larry Dierker from the announcing booth, or even try and get Art Howe.  Just please get rid of Williams.  Here's an interesting quote from another disgruntled Houston fan on another board:
"Managers who weren't named Dierker: 2 Division Titles in 37 years..
Managers Named Dierker: 4 Division Titles in 5 years....."

There's still half a season left, and Houston still has a legitimate chance, if the powers that be are willing to take drastic measures now in the clubhouse.

[HaemishM]

-They did just get rid of Richard Hidalgo for minor bullpen support.  Wow, super.  Why didn't you think of that before you traded future-hall-of-fame closer (Billy Wagner) and kept an overpaid, underperforming outfielder (Hidalgo).

The biggest problem with trading Hidalgo was that no one who was not named Hidalgo actually thought he was worth half the money Houston was paying him, especially not if that team was going to have to give up actual talent for an overinflated salary. I'm surprised the Mets even took a flier on him; haven't they made enough trades for aging, injured almost star players who never hit more than 10 home runs for them?

The team is getting slow, they have a giant fucking hill in center field that NO ONE can play without injuring themself, and they are named for a space industry that is 20 years removed from its better days. What more could a city want?!?!?!

[Kenrick]

Well now you're just being a hater.  Grow up.

[SirBruce]

Cardinals - Best record in the NL; 2nd best in MLB behind the Yankees, 3 game lead over the Cubs.

Bruce

[daveNYC]

What more could a city want?!?!?!

You forgot the logo that was stolen from Lockheed-Martin.

[Kenrick]

What more could a city want?!?!?!

You forgot the logo that was stolen from Lockheed-Martin.

Like is screaming originality.

[SirBruce]

What more could a city want?!?!?!

You forgot the logo that was stolen from Lockheed-Martin.

The Astros started using the cool new star logo in 1994; Lockheed and Martin-Marietta didn't merge until 1995.

Bruce

[schild]

The Astros started using the cool new star logo in 1994; Lockheed and Martin-Marietta didn't merge until 1995.
Bruce

Cool?