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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Archived: We distort. We decide.  |  Topic: Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory (PC) 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory (PC)  (Read 34379 times)
schild
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on: March 30, 2005, 10:02:16 AM

« Last Edit: March 30, 2005, 10:03:47 AM by schild »
Shockeye
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Reply #1 on: March 30, 2005, 10:05:55 AM

I thought you weren't getting it until the end of the month.

And they will NOT be removing the Starforce shit. You know that.
schild
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Reply #2 on: March 30, 2005, 10:07:47 AM

It is the end of the month. It's sitting on my desk unopened.

I know they aren't removing it.

They are now at the bottom of my list for people to purchase from. Well, right above EA.

What a bunch of morons.

Edit: It's unfortunate too. I was going to review the eXactMat (shown in picture) with it. Now I have to find something else new. Cold Fear just came out for PC. I'll probably return Splinter Cell and get 2 copies of that. BECAUSE I'M JUST THAT CRAZY. ZXCB.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2005, 10:09:25 AM by schild »
Shockeye
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Reply #3 on: March 30, 2005, 10:21:26 AM

It is the end of the month. It's sitting on my desk unopened.

Well look at that. Time flies and all. Calendar 4tehwin.
Mortriden
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Reply #4 on: March 30, 2005, 10:44:14 AM

So... because my Google-fu is lacking, what makes this so much worse than any other type of POS copy protection?  The limited use thing has been tried before.

It's like calling shenanigans.  But you say "jihad" instead. - Llava
They are out there, but they are bi-products of funny families. If you know funny old people, see if they have daughters. -Paelos
Yes my seed is that strong. I literally clap my hands and women are with child. -Paelos
Hoax
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Reply #5 on: March 30, 2005, 10:52:28 AM

I believe this one installs a bunch of sneaky shit on your computer, or perhaps they all do.  Its been a long time since I played a game that didn't charge me a monthly fee...  (god I miss tribes some days)

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
ahoythematey
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Reply #6 on: March 30, 2005, 10:55:49 AM

Goddammit.  I knew it didn't feel right when I picked it up today.  Would be nice if I could play non-MMO games on my computer these days.

Anybody know of ways to prevent this bullshit during installation?
Shockeye
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Reply #7 on: March 30, 2005, 11:08:03 AM

Goddammit.  I knew it didn't feel right when I picked it up today.  Would be nice if I could play non-MMO games on my computer these days.

Anybody know of ways to prevent this bullshit during installation?

You can't. It's called Starforce. Go check 'em out.

There's also an interview with the Starforce people on Firing Squad.

One person's fun with Starforce.

A little more background on Starforce driver installs.

Broadband Reports on the debut of Starforce.

Here is the protection used in Chaos Theory

Quote
Copy Protection: StarForce 3.4.71.19
« Last Edit: March 30, 2005, 11:18:19 AM by Shockeye »
HaemishM
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Reply #8 on: March 30, 2005, 11:24:13 AM

Yes, it appears that if I should purchase this at some point, it'll be the X-Box version, and not the spyware-installing PC version. Fuck you very much.

ahoythematey
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Reply #9 on: March 30, 2005, 12:12:47 PM

Fucking frogs.  I hope they all die in a beret-fire.
Mortriden
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Reply #10 on: March 30, 2005, 01:06:22 PM

Quote
Abbie Sommer: The fact that they remain was something that no one predicted would be such a contentious issue.

Holy shit this thing instals stuff and then won't uninstal?  That's fucking awsome!  I wish every program was like that.  Way to go asshats.

It's like calling shenanigans.  But you say "jihad" instead. - Llava
They are out there, but they are bi-products of funny families. If you know funny old people, see if they have daughters. -Paelos
Yes my seed is that strong. I literally clap my hands and women are with child. -Paelos
sinij
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Reply #11 on: March 30, 2005, 01:46:23 PM

Thanks for the warning, I was planning to purchase it but now I will wait until I can download cracked and StarForce-free version from bit-torrent.

Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end.
Shockeye
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Reply #12 on: March 30, 2005, 01:52:51 PM

Thanks for the warning, I was planning to purchase it but now I will wait until I can download cracked and StarForce-free version from bit-torrent.

That is not the point of the warnings. In fact, we don't support any kind of pirated software. Any further discussion of downloading copyrighted software illegally will be removed.

My problem with Starforce is what it does to your computer. I simply will not play the game at all on a PC wth Starforce there. I doubt I will even rent the Xbox version due to my position on Starforce.

I have no problem buying games I like. I have no problem buying games I don't like in order to play the game with people I do like. Starforce is a burden that is not needed. Hell, I'll take Microsoft activation over Starforce any day.
Strazos
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Reply #13 on: March 30, 2005, 02:48:35 PM

Not even Steam is this bad, from what I understand.

Though I got a laugh from reading some of the links...little kids think they have some kind of right to download illegal software. Fuck them. If it wasn't for their lazy asses, we might still have to only deal with instruction manual quizzes and code wheels.

Fear the Backstab!
"Plato said the virtuous man is at all times ready for a grammar snake attack." - we are lesion
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Shockeye
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Reply #14 on: March 30, 2005, 02:59:42 PM

Though I got a laugh from reading some of the links...little kids think they have some kind of right to download illegal software. Fuck them. If it wasn't for their lazy asses, we might still have to only deal with instruction manual quizzes and code wheels.

And that is why Starforce complaints are ignored. Starforce is bad. Bad, bad, bad. I don't care if there's copy protection on the game, but I do care when that protection interferes with the normal operation of my computer or PREVENTS ME FROM USING LEGAL PROGRAMS FOR LEGITIMATE USES. When a company or an industry can shrug off complaints and claim that the only ones complaining are people who do illegal things, it hurts the rest of us legal people. Only by not buying shit like this and complaining loudly to the companies who pull this shit can we change things.
Flashman
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Reply #15 on: March 30, 2005, 03:33:32 PM

Spot on schild. StarForce sucks. 

1. It's not clear in the EULA you agree to when you install the software.

2. It’s installed in secret, and it doesn’t uninstall when you remove the game.

3. Software that modifies your system without telling you. Hidden device drivers no less.

4. Breaks legal software on your machine.

5. Goes out of it’s way to hide itself.

It's on Silent Hunter III as well. But not on Brothers in Arms which I thought was strange.



Megrim
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Reply #16 on: March 30, 2005, 04:58:08 PM

Yea, as i was about to say... wooo Exactmat X - Schild you progamer you.

I suppose this could be considered one of the downsides to not having a console; if they keep coming up with this stupid "protection" crap how do they expect to actually stop piracy? I mean, i buy the vast majority of my games (and delete those that i didn't buy, but end up not liking) but honestly... *reads Shockeye's piracy warning* a huzzah! for games "bought" from the internet shop?!

 - meg

One must bow to offer aid to a fallen man - The Tao of Shinsei.
Strazos
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Reply #17 on: March 30, 2005, 05:07:56 PM

Just wondering what's so special about schild's mousepad...

Fear the Backstab!
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Yoru
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Reply #18 on: March 30, 2005, 05:16:43 PM

Actually, this thing not only has horribly invasive DRM, it also (reportedly) contains Massive Incorporated's in-game advertising middleware.

CNN/Money's article (halfway down the article, past the /pizza part), among others, claims that MI's adware plugin will be included in Chaos Theory. If you're not inclined to believe CNN/Money, Gamasutra also states it.

I'd definitely like to hear how the ads are integrated into the game/UI, if anyone actually gets past the DRM thing and installs it. Not that I'm volunteering, mind you.
sinij
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Reply #19 on: March 30, 2005, 05:24:01 PM

Lets say StarForce worked perfectly - uninstalled itself cleanly with the game, did not interfere with peripherals and had clear warning about it at installation. I’d still have problems with ‘watchdog’ software sitting at my computer taking up resources. Imagine every application use DRM - now our machine clogged up with unneeded software that takes up resources and iintroduces more things to go wrong.

Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end.
sinij
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Reply #20 on: March 30, 2005, 05:26:29 PM

Quote
I'd definitely like to hear how the ads are integrated into the game/UI

Is this inevitable future? I refuse to watch TV because of adds, wasting 15 minutes every hour of my entertaiment time is too much for me.

Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end.
Fabricated
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Reply #21 on: March 30, 2005, 05:37:26 PM

I can't install Brothers in Arms for the PC due to some fucked up DRM stuff on the DVD that makes the installer b0rk.

I mean, do they WANT us to pirate their stuff?

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
schild
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Reply #22 on: March 30, 2005, 07:39:29 PM

I mean, do they WANT us to pirate their stuff?

Developers want us to play their games no matter what.

Publishers want us to buy the games.

Someone is toying with shit they don't understand. Can you guess who it is?

I'm dead serious when I say I'll just not play games. I won't even ask for review copies. I'll give them an F for Ffort and move on. I don't need this shit. I spend an assload of money on games every month (we're talking $300-400) and when one of my most beloved series gets computer crippling DRM put on the disc, it makes me want to KILL.

So, once again, fuck UBISoft. And fuck France for breeding such clueless assholes.
gimpyone
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Reply #23 on: March 30, 2005, 10:29:10 PM

Quote from: Sucker

It is not terrible. Some of us just believe that utilizing copy protection, no matter how effective, is ultimately a poor choice if it hinders even one legitimate customer from getting what they payed for.

Starforce, in this regard, while not particularly notorious, can have compatability issues, and not correctly recognize legitimate game discs. There are also some reports of starforce installs botching a few system configurations, but those cases are largely blown out of proportion, and are isolated at best.
Yoru
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Reply #24 on: March 30, 2005, 10:38:59 PM

Is this inevitable future? I refuse to watch TV because of adds, wasting 15 minutes every hour of my entertaiment time is too much for me.

Probably. There's already product placement in games, and AO's free version includes real-world ads in predesignated "atmospheric" locations (giant f'n (preexisting) billboards). Massive's system reportedly not only delivers new ads but has the capability of reporting viewing metrics back; at least, that's what the press releases and assorted articles I've read on the topic indicate. Supposedly, they can get quantity-of-views and duration-of-views metrics, along with the obvious (time, in-game location, etc.).

I expect that this sort of thing will escalate in the big budget/mass market titles, with some particularly money-hungry companies placing ads as interstitials (load screens, etc.) or working them into static UI elements (menu backgrounds). While I'd like to doubt that they'll eventually move to sticking ads into the in-game UI itself, I know way too many advertising/marketing folks, most of whom think that their work is a vital and desired part of modern life, to be that naive.

Personally, I don't want any real-world ads in the games I play, and I definitely don't want ad metrics being reported during my play sessions.
Flashman
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Reply #25 on: March 30, 2005, 10:48:31 PM

I can't install Brothers in Arms for the PC due to some fucked up DRM stuff on the DVD that makes the installer b0rk.

I mean, do they WANT us to pirate their stuff?

Don't bother asking anything in their game forums...look at these wonderful responses..these are from the official moderators:

This is in response to a perfectly sane question from a guy who loaded his copy onto a friends machine. Then when his friend bought his own copy..wasnt able to use his own CD key....So 2 copies 2 computers..

"Dude...pull your head out of your a-s-s-
First of all you state you both have the game yet you load it onto his machine.If he has the game..why would you?Huh?
Now you load it back onto your machine....
Bullsh*t!
I bet the reason your friend cannot go online without your cdkey is because he doesnt have the game of his own..just the one you loaded which is illegal"

"You loaded your purchased game onto a friends computer...first of all that is not legal..sharing software.That is enough to warrant a permanent boot out of here"




This is probably your answer:

"If you cannot install or run the game it is because of this issue.You must disable/remove all virtual drive devices to continue"


Don't worry about BIA. Its stinks in my opinion. It's got all of the flaws of a console port. Small levels, tons of loading screens, too short of a game overall. Each level is a funnel. You better go down the path they want you to go b/c you can't move anywhere else.

The game boils down to this:

Trigger scripted event
Germans!
Order suppressive fire
Flank
Repeat

Katukov Strikes Back
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Reply #26 on: March 30, 2005, 11:31:22 PM

Edit: It's unfortunate too. I was going to review the eXactMat (shown in picture) with it. Now I have to find something else new. Cold Fear just came out for PC. I'll probably return Splinter Cell and get 2 copies of that. BECAUSE I'M JUST THAT CRAZY. ZXCB.

Be warned, the PC version of Cold Fear packs a different protection system (Unless you live in the EU or the UK, otherwise its starforce for you!) so secure even the person who bought it can't play it. Nothing like patching on the day of release!

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=400102&f=3121017362&m=1011054103

I'd advise renting the console version. The game is good, not Game of the Year material mind you, but still enjoyable in a B-Movie kind of way. Plus it just about makes up for what Darkworks did to the Alone in the Dark series. However, the first play through lasts at best 5 to 7 hours and the ending CGI movie is almost as short as the loading time between rooms. Go with the PS2 version, Xbox version has a nasty game killing bug 3/4s of the way through that you have a 50/50 chance of running into.

I'd put Cold Fear in the "Must rent or buy when it hits $30" catagory. You don't buy it for the complex story, deep characters, or diverse settings, you buy it for the shotgun on zombie action and the critical hit animations ripped straight from the matrix movies.


schild
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Reply #27 on: March 31, 2005, 03:26:35 AM

I've played Cold Fear on the Xbox already. It's Resident Evil 4 on a boat. At least in hi-def that's what it feels like. Unfortuantely I get motion sickness with it. I think a mouse and keyboard may alleviate that problem.
schild
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Reply #28 on: March 31, 2005, 03:27:46 AM

I'm still angry as hell at UBISoft. My virtual drive stuff has VERY legitamate uses (it isn't very hard for somoene with 1500+ dvds to find useful things to use a virtual drive for). And I can't even INSTALL their game or UNINSTALL the DRM because of it.

Fucking assholes.
sinij
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Reply #29 on: March 31, 2005, 08:02:35 AM

I oppose intrusive DRM on principle, I don't run virtual disk or have removable hard drive and I still won't buy it. I'm 'purchasing' game from intraweb as we speak, few more hours and transaction should be finished. Funny thing I was planning to pick a copy from the mall before I heard about DRM.

Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end.
schild
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Reply #30 on: March 31, 2005, 08:16:32 AM

My copy of Splinter Cell was paid for by Nintendo DS tradeins. I'm very, very tempted to just bite the bullet, uninstall some software just to run it. My biggest concern is the fact that from every report, Starforce does not uninstall. How is this legal? Any lawyer want to clue me in? I mean isn't this sort of incompatibility the reason Microsoft got antitrust lawsuits thrown at them. IANAL, so I may just be speaking gibberish.
Miasma
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Reply #31 on: March 31, 2005, 08:32:02 AM

I have no idea if this works but they claim to be "granted a sole right to distribute the StarForce Removal Tool utility".

Remover?
Shockeye
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Reply #32 on: March 31, 2005, 08:36:47 AM

My copy of Splinter Cell was paid for by Nintendo DS tradeins. I'm very, very tempted to just bite the bullet, uninstall some software just to run it. My biggest concern is the fact that from every report, Starforce does not uninstall. How is this legal? Any lawyer want to clue me in? I mean isn't this sort of incompatibility the reason Microsoft got antitrust lawsuits thrown at them. IANAL, so I may just be speaking gibberish.

You just can't not play a game, can you? Return it and get the Xbox version.
schild
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Reply #33 on: March 31, 2005, 08:58:18 AM

You just can't not play a game, can you? Return it and get the Xbox version.

The Xbox version doesn't have the right to be played. Console shooters suck. Particularly those of the sneaker variety. RE4 and Cold Fear were really the only ones to get it right. But Cold Fear should have come with dramamine.
HaemishM
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Reply #34 on: March 31, 2005, 09:09:17 AM

I must take exception to that. I've played both Splinter Cells on the X-Box and I love them. Sure, the multiplayer could be better with a mouse and keyboard, but the single-player is still luv.

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