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Author Topic: Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania  (Read 4844 times)
Khaldun
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Reply #35 on: February 18, 2023, 02:44:00 PM

Just saw it.

I thought it was fairly decent. It rolls along at a pretty fair clip. The "downtrodden refugees and resistance fighters who will show up in the last act to storm the castle" plot is pretty tired and there weren't any twists in this one. . *Kang* himself calls that out near the end when he references how many times he's put down rebellions. (Doesn't look like he's learned all that well how to do it, but I think he can be forgiven that because he's eager to get the fuck out of this place and distracted by his eagerness.) Wasn't much of an arc for Our Heroes either besides "Janet Van Dyne has a secret" (I honestly thought for a second it was going to be that she started banging Kang at some point, but no, she just banged Bill Murray) and "Scott feels really guilty about missing his daughter's childhood".


I really hope they can have a few films coming up where the big set-piece at the ending doesn't have to involve a cast of thousands, the end of the world, with lots of noise and explosions, etc.


I would rank it well above my least favorite MCU films, in any event.

Velorath
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Reply #36 on: February 19, 2023, 09:10:45 PM

There's a kind of half-hearted attempt to give Scott an arc with Cassie pointing out that post-Endgame he seems more interested in cashing in on his fame than helping people, and then Scott's reluctance to get involved in the rebellion. Obviously though it's never really in doubt that he's going to help.
Khaldun
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Reply #37 on: February 20, 2023, 04:55:06 AM

It's interesting. With the exception of Spider-Man, I don't think there's a single hero in the MCU who does anything like the conventional "nightly patrol". Which I think is great, because that trope has always been at least silly and at worst a contributor to the idea that crime is absolutely everywhere. So I'm not actually sure what a super-powered person who isn't on call as a paramilitary first responder to global emergencies is supposed to "do" in the MCU that constitutes great power matching great responsibilities. I'm pretty sure that going Giant-Man on cops clearing a homeless encampment wouldn't fit the bill. I suppose volunteering to help with natural disasters, etc, would be good, but even there, I'm not sure you want an untrained giant moving rubble in a collapsed building where you're looking for earthquake survivors.

And in the Pym household, Scott's pretty much the only guy with no scientific skills. I guess he could be the head of security for Hope's firm. It kind of feels like Cassie is just telling him "Get a job, you bum!" which is kind of WTF. Nobody's hurting for money at Chez Pym.
Johny Cee
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Reply #38 on: February 20, 2023, 05:29:37 AM

And in the Pym household, Scott's pretty much the only guy with no scientific skills. I guess he could be the head of security for Hope's firm. It kind of feels like Cassie is just telling him "Get a job, you bum!" which is kind of WTF. Nobody's hurting for money at Chez Pym.


He was a prodigy electrical engineer in the first movie...  he was in prison because he engaged in some kind of break-in/sabotage against his unethical former employer.  Pym recruited him because of that combination for his heist. 
eldaec
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Reply #39 on: February 20, 2023, 05:31:46 AM

It's interesting. With the exception of Spider-Man, I don't think there's a single hero in the MCU who does anything like the conventional "nightly patrol". Which I think is great, because that trope has always been at least silly and at worst a contributor to the idea that crime is absolutely everywhere.



Daredevil.

And in a different way Luke Cage.

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Threash
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Reply #40 on: February 20, 2023, 03:59:22 PM

And Iron Fist at the end if we are counting those shows, he takes over for the presumably dead daredevil.

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Velorath
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Reply #41 on: February 20, 2023, 04:31:33 PM

It's interesting. With the exception of Spider-Man, I don't think there's a single hero in the MCU who does anything like the conventional "nightly patrol". Which I think is great, because that trope has always been at least silly and at worst a contributor to the idea that crime is absolutely everywhere. So I'm not actually sure what a super-powered person who isn't on call as a paramilitary first responder to global emergencies is supposed to "do" in the MCU that constitutes great power matching great responsibilities. I'm pretty sure that going Giant-Man on cops clearing a homeless encampment wouldn't fit the bill. I suppose volunteering to help with natural disasters, etc, would be good, but even there, I'm not sure you want an untrained giant moving rubble in a collapsed building where you're looking for earthquake survivors.

And in the Pym household, Scott's pretty much the only guy with no scientific skills. I guess he could be the head of security for Hope's firm. It kind of feels like Cassie is just telling him "Get a job, you bum!" which is kind of WTF. Nobody's hurting for money at Chez Pym.


In theory there's probably a lot Scott and the Pyms could do with Pym Particles to help the world, but Hank is understandably protective of the technology to the point where he probably wouldn't go for it.

Also a giant Scott probably wouldn't be helpful moving rubble, but Scott with an army of ants he can communicate with would probably be great at finding survivors.
Khaldun
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Reply #42 on: February 20, 2023, 06:08:08 PM

MCU, so the Netflix shows don't count. I guess Daredevil is still patrolling, but it does kind of seem like he's finding more things than criminals in his MCU incarnation.

I think the if Pym Family want Scott to be doing useful shit with Pym Particles, that's a family affair. We've seen in the past that they're kind of digusted and annoyed when he goes off reservation and makes his own judgment calls.

Honestly, he kind of feels like he's in the worst in-law situation ever: high expectations, low permissions with a dependency on his partner and her family's tech. Not all that surprised that he spends his time reading to little kids instead.
Threash
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Reply #43 on: February 21, 2023, 03:00:40 PM

If they ever release a full version of Scott's audiobook it would put this movie in the top tier of MCU movies for me.

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Khaldun
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Reply #44 on: February 22, 2023, 02:27:28 PM

I kind of thought the same thing re: his family situation. Scott seems like the odd man out, sort of everybody's favorite dude-to-shit-on. I mean, we know that other people found Pym really irritating to work with back when he was in his scientific and superheroic prime, and his family kind of seems made in his image. No wonder he's enjoying being the public face of the family: it gets him away from the rest of them.

I almost wonder why Hope doesn't hire him as the company spokesman/mascot. Sort of the thing Iron Man was actually supposed to be in the comic books originally--the guy Tony Stark sent to corporate shows and opening ceremonies (while secretly *being* him).
Samwise
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Reply #45 on: March 05, 2023, 03:03:32 PM

I saw this, and my expectations were low so I was able to enjoy it as dumb fun.  At one point I had the thought "wow, these visuals are really ripping off Star Wars here," and a few seconds later my wife leans over to me and says "so the Quantum Realm is just Star Wars?"  Which I mention just to highlight that for the sheer amount of stuff they're throwing on screen to try to wow you, not much of it feels particularly fresh and interesting.  The compositing was also really rough in a few spots (like 80s monster movie with rear projection effects rough) which didn't help.  But the heroes were mostly charming, and Majors did some great growling and scowling and scenery chewing, and there were lots of lasers, and I liked Scott doing a book reading at City Lights (the other SF locations were fake as far as I could tell).

« Last Edit: March 05, 2023, 03:05:05 PM by Samwise »

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HaemishM
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Reply #46 on: March 06, 2023, 05:16:29 PM

Majors was a perfect choice for Kang. His power levels were all over the place but I'm not sure they've ever been very clearly defined in the comics either. I could also chalk it up to him being stranded in the Quantam Realm. Given enough screen time and story, I think he might actually bring the same gravitas to the character that Brolin gave to Thanos.

MODOK was hysterical and I loved it. The character has always looked ridiculous, and lately the comics have treated him more as a laugh than a real threat. He works best that way.

I think the movie's biggest problem was that it had a real interesting dilemna there - should heroes from the real world get involved in the Quantam Realm's disputes? How do they even know Kang is evil? There's some real moral ambiguity that could have been explored, but it felt like they didn't really have (or want) time to explore that. And the heroes being able to just toodle in between worlds kind of undercut the whole importance of stopping Kang from entering the portal.

I still liked it. It was fun, and I like Cassie. She'll fit in with the Young Avengers well.

Threash
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Reply #47 on: March 06, 2023, 05:45:24 PM

Is he even supposed to have any inherent powers in the MCU? I thought he was just a guy who invented the MCU equivalent of the portal gun from rick and morty, cept also time travel, and all his powers are entirely technology based. He was just a dude until he got his suit back and just a dude after he lost most of it.

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Khaldun
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Reply #48 on: March 06, 2023, 06:21:55 PM

Kang? Yeah, he has no intrinsic powers. He's combat-trained to the point that he can give Captain America a good fight, but there's always the vague stink of a cheater about him, e.g., a dude who depends on technology and time-travel to get the advantage and is kind of non-plussed when that doesn't work. It's one reason I kind of hate him as a character: he's got no consistency. You see a writer doing Dr. Doom wrong and you go "no way man, Doom wouldn't say that or do that". Kang? He's often a fucking screaming wuss who had some kind of stupid time-travel plan or throws dinosaurs and robots at people and then runs away. The one time he's been remotely consistent is Busiek's "Kang Dynasty" story and even there it's clear that other incarnations of him have been goddamn babies who have done timey-wimey shit to avoid having their face smashed in by Thor etc--that's what the hardcore Kang of the story has decided to face the music on and not pull.

If you look at his big picture, he's basically a 24th Century incel who gets a big stiffy at the thought of superheroes and combat in the past, rips off a time machine, and spends a few centuries lording it over early Egyptians with 24th Century tech while telling himself what an awesome motherfucker he is.
HaemishM
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Reply #49 on: March 07, 2023, 07:36:34 PM

That is a stunningly accurate take on Kang, including his whole blue balls pursuit of Ravenna.

Khaldun
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Reply #50 on: March 07, 2023, 07:50:01 PM

I would not at all mind if the Council of Kangs gets their divergent heads handed to them for the first half of The Kang Dynasty and then the real guy shows up, punks the shit out of them and then says to the Avengers, "ok, look, I don't have time for you people, I got real business to take care of".
Khaldun
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Reply #51 on: March 25, 2023, 11:34:00 AM

BTW, I think "Scott Lang"'s book is coming out for real, and I would assume it has an audiobook option...
Threash
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Reply #52 on: May 21, 2023, 12:55:03 PM

BTW, I think "Scott Lang"'s book is coming out for real, and I would assume it has an audiobook option...


Yup.

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Raguel
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Reply #53 on: May 21, 2023, 02:23:53 PM

Finally saw this the other day on Disney+. I really liked it. CGI wasn't great but it was a fun movie.
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Reply #54 on: May 22, 2023, 09:36:16 AM

Getting Black Panther 2 vibes of random suit handouts and genius teenagers making quantum (sorry) leaps of science in their garage. Not quite as bad as it was in BP2, but the teen iron man in that, Cassie in this, and that portal chick from Strange 2 were all weirdly jammed in.

It was ok for an overly CGI movie with garbage character interaction, but that's been this entire phase of movies. Every single one is a step back from the previous entry in quality.

The thing that bothered me most was none of the great cast from the first couple, the FBI dude or Scott's crew. The comedy in this was painful. Without Kang, this was a flop. I did enjoy it overall as a dumb popcorn movie.

The best part was an end scene from a tv show imo.
Khaldun
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Reply #55 on: May 22, 2023, 12:24:51 PM

It does feel like they've hit the limit of what they can do with effects unless they want to either dial it back a bit towards "modified realism" or they want to spend a lot more money. Or just generally rethink the house visual style--it's just not holding up very well.

I also think the films are less referencing other genres/stories and more referencing themselves, which is making the whole thing feel a bit enclosed and claustrophobic.

They also desperately need to have a few truly great action scenes in an upcoming film--there really have not been many lately worth rewatching.
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