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Author Topic: The Falcon and the Winter soldier  (Read 2892 times)
Trippy
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Reply #105 on: April 03, 2021, 06:00:19 PM

Weirdly i think they might have been too generous. I was swimming in cash store items and enough tokens to buy every hero as it came out just from regular play. A LOT of regular play granted, but still. And to me the gameplay was great, but yeah the VA was top notch. Jean Grey telling Emma Frost "I can read minds with my clothes on" still cracks me up.
Tara Strong as Squirrel Girl was my favorite VA. I liked to play SG just for her lines even though she was kind of meh as a hero.

Here are some of her lines though it's missing her "nut facts" "legumes" one, which is one of my favorites:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeabVZdQLCs&t=38s
Threash
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Reply #106 on: April 03, 2021, 06:17:02 PM

I liked to play SG just for her lines even though she was kind of meh as a hero.

One good thing was that even meh heroes were massively overpowered compared to the content. And yes, SG was hilarious.

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Khaldun
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Reply #107 on: April 03, 2021, 09:40:37 PM

Literally everything I say about what might happen is wrong, so yeah, spoilers are kind of beside the point. If I happen to get something right for once, you guys are all going to be just as surprised as otherwise. Hell, I'll be just as surprised!
Threash
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Reply #108 on: April 04, 2021, 08:09:32 AM

Literally everything I say about what might happen is wrong, so yeah, spoilers are kind of beside the point. If I happen to get something right for once, you guys are all going to be just as surprised as otherwise. Hell, I'll be just as surprised!


Dude, speculation is not a spoiler even if it's right.

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schild
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Reply #109 on: April 04, 2021, 08:40:25 AM

Having watched 2 episodes, this might be the worst MCU thing thus far.
Khaldun
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Reply #110 on: April 04, 2021, 09:06:21 AM

Literally everything I say about what might happen is wrong, so yeah, spoilers are kind of beside the point. If I happen to get something right for once, you guys are all going to be just as surprised as otherwise. Hell, I'll be just as surprised!


Dude, speculation is not a spoiler even if it's right.

Well, I think occasionally if you really have some kind of inside knowledge it can be when what you're watching is a close adaptation of existing work, at least if the people reading include folks who have zero knowledge of the source material. But MCU stuff has so far been just pulling little elements of past comic stories--they haven't really done any comics-first story arc closely enough that knowing the source material told you much in plot-specific ways about what was about to happen.

Compare to GoT discussions, where having read the books was a pretty good guide to exactly what was coming next even when they made some alterations to the material.
eldaec
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Reply #111 on: April 04, 2021, 12:18:55 PM

Having watched 2 episodes, this might be the worst MCU thing thus far.

This isn't true, because thor 2, and iron man 2 and 3, and avengers 2, all exist.

I do think it is one of the most literal interpretations of a comic book idea out of  any of them. And it suffers for it. Comics are an incredibly low bandwidth format, and this show is the same. They only seem to have room in an episode for as few ideas as fit into a single comic book - and I'm not sure why.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
schild
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Reply #112 on: April 04, 2021, 04:36:38 PM

i'm sorry but like

this is worse than all of those except thor 2 which I called out as being worse than i said it while watching (granted my original statement was a little hyperbolic - this is shockingly bad)

This is exceptionally bad, true to the comic or not - Falcon was already boring as hell but now he's a poor black guy with a shrimping boat? I don't give a fuck about his original backstory (if it is) but like, come the fuck off it. Dude has Stark Anyone on speed dial. Can't get a loan. Avengers are paid in goodwill.

Meanwhile, Bucky has been replaced with a neurotic character from Any Sitcom USA.

This show is a fuckin mess. I'm gonna keep watching it because it's canon but praising this bullshit after Wandavision feels like a defense of Star Wars.

Oh, and new Captain America looks like a genetic disorder. Where's the hell is your chin?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 04:39:36 PM by schild »
Raguel
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Reply #113 on: April 04, 2021, 07:13:11 PM

i'm sorry but like

this is worse than all of those except thor 2 which I called out as being worse than i said it while watching (granted my original statement was a little hyperbolic - this is shockingly bad)

This is exceptionally bad, true to the comic or not - Falcon was already boring as hell but now he's a poor black guy with a shrimping boat? I don't give a fuck about his original backstory (if it is) but like, come the fuck off it. Dude has Stark Anyone on speed dial. Can't get a loan. Avengers are paid in goodwill.

Meanwhile, Bucky has been replaced with a neurotic character from Any Sitcom USA.

This show is a fuckin mess. I'm gonna keep watching it because it's canon but praising this bullshit after Wandavision feels like a defense of Star Wars.

Oh, and new Captain America looks like a genetic disorder. Where's the hell is your chin?

LOL I agree with every single critique but I still like it for some reason.

I've been reluctant to even ask (for some bizarre reason) but can Stan actually act? I've never seen him in anything but MCU stuff and I must say I'm underwhelmed.

All I know about Sam's comics origin IIRC is his father was a preacher, Steve specifically recruited him to be a CA-like hero for some island nation they found themselves fighting Red Skull over, and also later it was retconned Sam was a Pimp Named Snap the Skull mind-controlled as a Trojan Horse to screw with Cap.  I think the latter retcon was retconned out of existence.
Khaldun
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Reply #114 on: April 04, 2021, 08:49:30 PM

Comics Bucky is basically:

Version 1: Pedo bait. I mean, he's maybe the most uncomfortable kid sidekick ever, maybe worse than Robin. He's a kid who hangs around a military base and then Steve Rogers basically adopts him as the camp mascot and has him sleep in his tent.

Version 2: Sainted dead character motivation. Cap and Bucky try to stop Zemo (the elder) from blowing up America and Bucky enthusiastically gets himself blown to smithereens while Cap just gets knocked into suspended animation. At this point inquiry into Bucky's actual background and personality basically ceases: he's just something for post-revival Cap to brood on.

Version 3: Brubaker rethinks him prior to reviving him: Bucky was a sniper, Special Forces, he was kind of Cap's yin-to-yang: hard where Cap was compassionate, etc. and then he revived as a Cold War pawn of the East Bloc, etc.

Comics Falcon is WAY WORSE:

He's a screaming Black stereotype straight out of incredibly square white guys watching a cheap blaxploitation film and thinking wow we gotta get down with the Negroes, dig it. He's a nice guy and then he somehow ends up on an island where Captain America is fighting the Red Skull and the Skull decides to turn Sam into a mobster pimp stereotype that Captain America redeems. Cap teams up with him, they work together because Cap is just that good: he's the white guy who can make a black pimp into a badass sidekick. Then the Black Panther and Marvel editors come along and say "I bet you thought we were a bunch of bigots, I mean, look at this character! It was the Cosmic Cube All Along! Actually Sam is just a nice guy from Harlem whose dad was a preacher. I bet he worked for a non-profit! Yeah! That's it! But he's become a badass fighter and now look, the Black Panther (our main non-embarrassing black character, natch) has some new powered up shit for him. Phew!"

There's some later garbage from garbage story arcs, but basically, Comics Sam Wilson is a fucking messed up incoherent character. Right around when they made him Temporary Captain America they decided he had always been, more or less, more like the character you're seeing now. So far MCU Sam is about 100% more coherent.
MahrinSkel
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When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #115 on: April 04, 2021, 09:29:35 PM

When Stark was alive and he wasn't dusted, Falcon didn't have financial problems. But Tony is dead and Pepper Pots doesn't have the same "You bought lunch, I'll cover the Cadillac" mindset towards his fellow vigilantes. There's no Rich Uncle Pennybags behind him anymore, and for most of the last 5 years, he was literally drifting in the wind.

That he's got money troubles is literally the most realistic part of the show.

--Dave

Edit: After re watching the episode, I'm about 80% on Sharon being the Power Broker.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 09:31:31 PM by MahrinSkel »

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schild
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Reply #116 on: April 04, 2021, 10:49:22 PM

Any avenger that was on good terms with Stark and was there when he died almost fucking assuredly could call Pepper Potts and be rich in 5 minutes. She's fucking Rescue, man. RESCUE.

This show sucks. I hate that I'm invested in the canon of the overall universe.
eldaec
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Reply #117 on: April 05, 2021, 03:37:38 AM

Edit: After re watching the episode, I'm about 80% on Sharon being the Power Broker.

Not impossible it is Zemo.

Only 3 episodes left, so running out if time for it to be someone we haven't met. Sharon's last line kind of suggests you are right.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 11:18:06 AM by eldaec »

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Khaldun
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Reply #118 on: April 05, 2021, 12:01:56 PM

Not quite sure why she was killing everybody in sight all by herself then, kind of seems risky for the #1 badass in Madripoor. Though I can see why she might have wanted Nagle dusted if he was distributing the serum without her say-so and maybe those were his guys outside.

Also wonder if this ends with Zemo getting the mask glued to his face. I don't know that they'd want to lose Bruhl's facial expressions, which have been way more fun here than in Civil War.
schild
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Reply #119 on: April 05, 2021, 12:13:54 PM

it's sharon

she's the power broker
Sky
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Reply #120 on: April 05, 2021, 01:59:23 PM

Also wonder if this ends with Zemo getting the mask glued to his face. I don't know that they'd want to lose Bruhl's facial expressions, which have been way more fun here than in Civil War.

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Always gives me Freedom Force narrator flashbacks.

Sky
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Reply #121 on: April 08, 2021, 03:50:11 PM


Raguel
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Reply #122 on: April 08, 2021, 04:28:29 PM


I'm so, so sorry.  why so serious? I saw #ReleaseTheZemoCut trending and decided to join in. I didn't think they'd do it lol.
Khaldun
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Reply #123 on: April 08, 2021, 04:29:20 PM

You know, thinking on Sam having money and family issues, part of that is them taking the Blip semi-seriously as a premise but part of it is just insisting that Marvel heroes have to have relatable human problems, none of them get to be archetypes or mythologies. (Hence even Thor has mommy issues, depression, drinking problems, weight problems, etc.)  In a way, you know you've progressed as a Marvel character from a side character to a main character when you get your own relatable problems as opposed to minor-character-schtick. Sam can just be "Steve's black friend who was trained on an exotic military technology" right up to the point that he gets handed the shield and handed a mini-series, after that he's got to be something more.
Draegan
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Reply #124 on: April 08, 2021, 08:00:22 PM

Wonder if he would be too proud to take money from Stark or whomever.
schild
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Reply #125 on: April 08, 2021, 08:31:04 PM

god draegan you somehow made this stupid fuckin storyline worse
eldaec
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Reply #126 on: April 09, 2021, 03:16:44 AM

It exactly the sort of thing that gets three panels at the start of a mediocre comic and then used for filler dialog to show how the hero sometimes has a rough time despite superpowers.

There is no thought out backstory - they just realised that Bucky has reasons to be sad but Sam was just a generic well adjusted military guy. What issues to generic well adjusted military guys sometimes have? The tropeotron says relating to folks back home and a shortage of cash.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Velorath
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Reply #127 on: April 09, 2021, 03:36:29 AM

Hoping Karli survives through the end of this series. Erin Kellyman is apparently in The Green Knight and the Willow series that's being made so there's that at least.

That last image of this episode is something.

Zemo in this series feels a bit like the slightly reformed Thunderbolts version of Zemo. He's still got that casual arrogance and he doesn't seem especially remorseful for all the shit he's done but he's also not going around being evil for sake of it. I can only hope they'll eventually work towards some sort of Thunderbolts series or movie.

Also continuing to like Wyatt Russell as the replacement Cap. Yes, being the child of Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn scores him some points with me that he maybe didn't earn, but I also thought he was good in Overlord, and Everybody Wants Some. Walker in the comics had the unenviable task of trying to replace Steve Rogers as Cap. Here it's twice as bad as it's not just Cap as a character being replaced but Chris Evans. Also for some reason I actually like that in interviews Russell admittedly just does not give a fuck about comic books or superheroes.
eldaec
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Reply #128 on: April 09, 2021, 06:47:48 AM

Sam, Bucky, and Zemo were good in this one, but everyone else has started doing stupidity in lieu of plot.

The ending was well shot but really? Wasn't that a bit on the nose?
« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 08:04:47 AM by eldaec »

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
eldaec
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Reply #129 on: April 09, 2021, 08:11:27 AM

Zemo in this series feels a bit like the slightly reformed Thunderbolts version of Zemo. He's still got that casual arrogance and he doesn't seem especially remorseful for all the shit he's done but he's also not going around being evil for sake of it. I can only hope they'll eventually work towards some sort of Thunderbolts series or movie.

I think both Zemo and Enfys Nest are really nicely set up in this.

Sam's lack of a good answer to either of them is good too.

But for the plot to pay off and thereby demonstrate Sam really is Captain America, it seems like he has to reconcile what each of them represent and it doesn't feel like the show is smart enough to do that.

I think the idea is that to be Captain America you have to be able to boy scout your way out of this.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Raguel
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Reply #130 on: April 09, 2021, 10:36:11 AM


I think the JW character arc (a decent man cracking under the pressure of being replacement Cap) would have been better served by a slower burn but it's not his show.
Threash
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Reply #131 on: April 09, 2021, 01:29:40 PM

I am enjoying that every faction is a little bit right. And I trust Zemo more than Sharon right now.

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Khaldun
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Reply #132 on: April 12, 2021, 07:03:03 PM

A lot of people outside the US are like yass yass that's how we see America, which is kind of what the Cap writers post-Brubaker were trying to do in the comics--acknowledge that Steve Rogers couldn't just Dudley-Do-Right his way to "but I'm a nice guy" if he wanted to be fighting "terrorists". I think that kind of beat them down in the end because they decided they still needed a Yellow Menace Bad Guy (well-motivated! vaguely sympathetic!).
Velorath
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Reply #133 on: April 13, 2021, 02:01:49 AM

I think the idea is that to be Captain America you have to be able to boy scout your way out of this.

I think it's more that you have to at least try for the peaceful resolution first when possible. Even Steve has had to get his hands dirty to do what he thought was right, up to and including fighting half the Avengers and going on the run from the government (and Sam was right there with him). I think Sam is ultimately going to have to fight Karli to stop her but he is able to at least empathize with her and tried talking her down.
Khaldun
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Reply #134 on: April 13, 2021, 10:05:36 PM

I would honestly love it if the show ended up with Sam saying "I'm Captain America...and I'm a Flag-Smasher" (or something more or less along those lines).
Sky
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Reply #135 on: April 14, 2021, 07:59:21 AM

It's pretty difficult to actually smash a flag tho

Khaldun
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Reply #136 on: April 14, 2021, 02:17:50 PM

True dat.
Setanta
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Reply #137 on: April 14, 2021, 07:22:22 PM

As an Aussie, "smash" has a variety of contexts. To over-imbibe "I'm going to smash out a six pack of tinnies" (drink 6 cans). Another context is that smash = fornicate with - so yeah, I could see some flag smashing happening. Cue Homelander crossover.

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Soulflame
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Reply #138 on: April 15, 2021, 12:49:34 PM

Not if you dip the flag in liquid nitrogen first.
Khaldun
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Reply #139 on: April 15, 2021, 05:27:03 PM

"Flash-Frozen Flag Smashers"
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