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Author Topic: Black Widow  (Read 18061 times)
Trippy
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Reply #35 on: April 03, 2021, 07:35:50 PM

eldaec
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Reply #36 on: July 09, 2021, 04:04:27 PM

20 minutes in, my overriding thought is...

'You liked the Bourne movies huh?'

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Threash
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Reply #37 on: July 09, 2021, 06:16:23 PM

I liked it overall, was bugged by some of the shit she survived but the action was good. Florence Pugh and the rest of her family were all great.

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eldaec
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Reply #38 on: July 09, 2021, 06:48:24 PM

Action is really good. Like almost all marvel films the last third felt weird and disconnected and lost some of the threat and physicality that rest of the film had.

It is a real shame this movie wasn't made earlier. Not least as it might have helped avoid the shoddy way she was treated in the avengers movies.


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schild
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Reply #39 on: July 09, 2021, 08:34:12 PM

This movie is oof.

I'm a huge Pugh fan and this is just like, somewhere above Thor 2 and somewhere below like infinity war

It's not great
Threash
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Reply #40 on: July 09, 2021, 08:45:24 PM

Theater I watched it at was maybe 30% full, and they had the same person selling popcorn and checking tickets.

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Draegan
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Reply #41 on: July 09, 2021, 10:09:08 PM

Movie was pointless, not sure why it was made. Curious.
Trippy
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Reply #42 on: July 09, 2021, 10:33:10 PM

It's the intro / origin story for one of the Young Avengers (Yelena).
Velorath
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Reply #43 on: July 09, 2021, 10:42:14 PM

Thinking Thunderbolts for her more likely than Young Avengers.
Riggswolfe
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Reply #44 on: July 09, 2021, 11:51:09 PM

20 minutes in, my overriding thought is...

'You liked the Bourne movies huh?'

Please tell me you're not saying this movie is filled with shitty Bourne-style shakey-cam. I want to see this, not least because I want to support female super hero movies but if it has action I can't follow because the camera man is having seizures I'll give it a pass.

Theater I watched it at was maybe 30% full, and they had the same person selling popcorn and checking tickets.

Do you think it's because of this movie? Or has Covid just really put the nail in the coffin for theater attendance? Especially when people can pay $30 and just watch it at home? I'm genuinely curious. I personally am thinking I might never go to a movie theater again unless it's a big event movie I am dying to see. (Basically Avengers or something akin to the Lord of the Rings movies.)

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
eldaec
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Reply #45 on: July 10, 2021, 01:48:05 AM

First half has a lot of shaky cam. Not quite Bourne levels but it is the look they are going for.

Later on it switches to the standard marvel look.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
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eldaec
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Reply #46 on: July 10, 2021, 01:49:37 AM

Movie was pointless, not sure why it was made. Curious.

It was fun. The point of all Marvel movies is fun.


"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Threash
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Reply #47 on: July 10, 2021, 09:48:06 AM

Do you think it's because of this movie? Or has Covid just really put the nail in the coffin for theater attendance? Especially when people can pay $30 and just watch it at home? I'm genuinely curious. I personally am thinking I might never go to a movie theater again unless it's a big event movie I am dying to see. (Basically Avengers or something akin to the Lord of the Rings movies.)

The later, if anything could bring people back to theaters it should have been an MCU movie. I'm a big GI Joe fan and now I think the Snake Eyes movie coming out next month is going to bomb hard, and that might kill the entire franchise unlike Black Widow.

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eldaec
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Reply #48 on: July 10, 2021, 12:30:02 PM

I suspect it hasn't helped that Black Widow has been positioned as a second tier character over the course of a decade, and that her primary defining characteristic in avengers 1 and 2 was her love interests.

This movie needed to be made after avengers 1.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
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eldaec
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Reply #49 on: July 10, 2021, 12:31:53 PM

Thinking Thunderbolts for her more likely than Young Avengers.

The post credits scene confirms this as explicitly as it possibly could.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2021, 12:46:30 PM by eldaec »

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
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Trippy
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Reply #50 on: July 10, 2021, 01:11:07 PM

Why not both? I.e, manipulated at the start by Zemo and switches to the Young Avengers when she learns the full picture of what happened / what’s going on?

Velorath
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Reply #51 on: July 10, 2021, 01:30:06 PM

Mostly because an assassin trained from childhood doesn't fit as well into the Young Avengers who are generally a naïve group just coming into their powers/abilities. Yelena fits in much better with people like U.S.Agent or Zemo.
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Reply #52 on: July 10, 2021, 08:48:25 PM

Yeah, I'm thinking Yelena is not for Young Avengers at all, unless maybe as a late-show mentor. That post-credits scene definitely confirms Thunderbolts in some fashion.

I dug this. It wasn't perfect, the final third had a whole lot of crazy shit that they all survived that they really shouldn't have. Ray Winstone's villain was ok, but I couldn't help but be distracted by his accent/manner of speech switching from Bad Boris to a Sopranos cast member and all points in between, sometimes within the same line of dialogue. I like him, but this was barely "look offscreen to see if the check is here yet" level of acting.

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Reply #53 on: July 11, 2021, 11:07:50 AM

The opening sequence was better when Matthew Rhys and Kerri Russel did it. The last third was disjointed.

It was still a not-horrible ride.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
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Reply #54 on: July 11, 2021, 05:57:07 PM

I thought it was fine with a few scenes of really good character work/humor. Mid-tier MCU fare that should have been slotted in before Infinity.

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HaemishM
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Reply #55 on: July 11, 2021, 06:59:54 PM

The opening sequence was better when Matthew Rhys and Kerri Russel did it.

Heh, I actually thought when The Americans did it, it was morose and badly done. The previous 5 seasons or so made up for it.

Threash
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Reply #56 on: July 11, 2021, 07:53:26 PM

So Black Widow = rich as fuck but Falcon = broke ass?

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Khaldun
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Reply #57 on: July 11, 2021, 09:45:43 PM

It was fine? I enjoyed the middle of the film the most--the character work was best in that part.

I was very disappointed in Taskmaster--that might be the worst comic-to-screen adaptation they've done in the MCU so far. Totally missed the fun and point of that character. A serious, serious waste.

I'm really unclear at this point about the super-spy/great powers landscape of the MCU between the 1980s-whenever it is that Captain America woke up and shit started happening (seemingly).

I also am seriously seriously disliking Julia Louis-Dreyfus' character, who is definitely not the super-sexy Contessa who was Nick Fury's main squeeze for a long time in the comics. She's just damn annoying. Seems obvious at any rate that she's the Thunderbolts' version of Nick Fury circa Iron Man 1 or so. Fine. She's just kinda annoying.
Velorath
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Reply #58 on: July 11, 2021, 10:26:40 PM

I'm really unclear at this point about the super-spy/great powers landscape of the MCU between the 1980s-whenever it is that Captain America woke up and shit started happening (seemingly).

Assuming Alexei wasn't just crazy or exaggerating about fighting Cap, it's possible there were additional attempts at a replacement Cap, or the Steve Rogers that went back in time to stay with Peggy Carter managed to stay in the same timeline, and was occasionally active in secret. Winter Soldier was activated when needed. SHIELD (and by extension Hydra) were around. I assume T'Chaka would have been the active Black Panther at the time. The Red Room would have been around as Melina said she had been cycled through multiple times, presumably starting as a child. Magicians would have been around, and the whole 10 Rings thing sounds like it's been around for a bit.

Until Tony Stark came along it just seems like everyone was better at keeping their shit out of the public eye.
Abagadro
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Reply #59 on: July 12, 2021, 12:55:37 AM

I thought they were just riffing on how there are so many various timelines of shit in the movies and comics that no one can keep it all straight any more.


"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
eldaec
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Reply #60 on: July 12, 2021, 03:24:41 AM

Alexi didn't fight cap. He was already in jail when Cap defrosted. They said that explicty. He was making stuff up to fit his delusions  and the other prison inmates called him on it.

He was presumably created as a soviet answer to Cap's activity in the 1940s. Hence the obsession.


"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
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eldaec
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Reply #61 on: July 12, 2021, 03:35:03 AM

I also am seriously seriously disliking Julia Louis-Dreyfus' character, who is definitely not the super-sexy Contessa who was Nick Fury's main squeeze for a long time in the comics.

It's very noticeable that nobody is a super sexy anything now.

Pugh's introduction is miles away from the 'how can we make Scarlet Johansson bend over a lot and get a lingerie shot' approach of IM2.

Julia Louis-Dreyfus has never been allowed to look her age in anything since Seinfeld.

Ultimately her character is going to live or die by how competent she appears in the movies she is an actual character in. I can't say I have any strong feelings based on the three scenes she has had so far.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
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Threash
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Reply #62 on: July 12, 2021, 07:35:40 AM


Pugh's introduction is miles away from the 'how can we make Scarlet Johansson bend over a lot and get a lingerie shot' approach of IM2.

IM2? there was constant blatant lingering ass shots of SJ in THIS movie.

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Raguel
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Reply #63 on: July 12, 2021, 02:44:24 PM

So Black Widow = rich as fuck but Falcon = broke ass?

I would imagine the explanation is that Sam got all his money either from his parents or from being in the military, while Natasha got her money from some SHIELD/Fury slush fund.

Anyway I liked the movie. I guess we won't be seeing Ursa Major in any upcoming movie.  ACK! why so serious?
Sir T
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Reply #64 on: July 12, 2021, 07:30:31 PM

Relevant


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schild
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Reply #65 on: July 13, 2021, 10:55:54 AM

this is the third worst marvel movie

-

sir t, what's the point of posting that

it's not actually relevant given the amount of beefcake in the mcu

also, that's america's ass tyvm
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Reply #66 on: July 13, 2021, 10:58:59 AM

(oh i see, lots of comments about scarletts ass - ugh, whatever, she's not a very good actress / don't cast her if you ain't doing that - I'm not willing to pretend the first rule of the MCU isn't "be attractive, look how much work they put into professor hulk, like damn)
HaemishM
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Reply #67 on: July 13, 2021, 09:35:13 PM

Given the source material of comic book movies, I'd like to think both the MCU and the DCEU movies have been positively restrained when it comes to overt and ridiculous over-sexualization of female characters. I'm more troubled by the rape-y bits of the body-swapping in Wonder Woman 1984.

eldaec
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Reply #68 on: July 14, 2021, 09:26:46 AM

Given the source material of comic book movies, I'd like to think both the MCU and the DCEU movies have been positively restrained when it comes to overt and ridiculous over-sexualization of female characters. I'm more troubled by the rape-y bits of the body-swapping in Wonder Woman 1984.

Early MCU was no better or worse than wider society at the time.

Post Disney MCU has done a bit better.

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MediumHigh
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Reply #69 on: July 14, 2021, 10:52:02 AM

Anyway, this was a B+ movie. But if I think about it too hard some of the enjoyment of just letting the action scenes and character moments wash over you is lost. Which means any real complaints about the movie feels like nitpicks more than actual "wtf marvel moments." It also helps that this laps Captain Marvel by a lot and I'm not sure its because they learned something from that exploding fart canister or Scarlet Joe/Black Widow is infinitely more interesting to watch than Brie Larson/Captain Marvel.

But fuck it I do have some complaints, and its mostly due to Black Widow being a rated R character stuck in a pg-13 world.
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