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Author Topic: Black Widow  (Read 18055 times)
eldaec
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Reply #70 on: July 14, 2021, 01:56:45 PM

Suggesting ScarJo is more interesting to watch than Brie Larson is fucking insane.

Issues with Captain Marvel is just that is so damn slow. I think they spent too long on shots intended to make it look and feel like an early 90s movie and not enough time asking if the shot was any good.

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Goumindong
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Reply #71 on: July 14, 2021, 02:42:11 PM

They tried to make 4 different types of movies instead of committing to one. And as a result its none of those and worse for it. I cannot tell if this makes it bad or if its bad because, had it committed to one of those four directions(Action, Family, ABOUT THINGS, spy), it could have been very good. In the end i enjoyed it even though i didn't have a lot of expectations.

Though i will say that I haven't watched endgame so i might not have the same baggage everyone else had going in.
Riggswolfe
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Reply #72 on: July 14, 2021, 03:31:35 PM

Anyway, this was a B+ movie. But if I think about it too hard some of the enjoyment of just letting the action scenes and character moments wash over you is lost. Which means any real complaints about the movie feels like nitpicks more than actual "wtf marvel moments." It also helps that this laps Captain Marvel by a lot and I'm not sure its because they learned something from that exploding fart canister or Scarlet Joe/Black Widow is infinitely more interesting to watch than Brie Larson/Captain Marvel.


My biggest complaint about Captain Marvel is simply the character herself. She's female Superman but as far as I can tell she not only doesn't have a Kryptonite but she shoots laser beams from her fists. I think that makes her a hard character to bring into movies and maintain any drama and I suspect it's why she is barely in Endgame because she took a headbutt from Thanos and just smirked. I think the best thing for the character would be for her to encounter a Rogue-style character who would siphon off her powers.

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
MediumHigh
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Reply #73 on: July 14, 2021, 04:45:22 PM

Suggesting ScarJo is more interesting to watch than Brie Larson is fucking insane.

Issues with Captain Marvel is just that is so damn slow. I think they spent too long on shots intended to make it look and feel like an early 90s movie and not enough time asking if the shot was any good.

I'm pretty sure Brie Larson is a better actor. But she didn't play the more compelling character. Is there an actual difference between Captain Marvel and a flying brick?
Khaldun
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Reply #74 on: July 14, 2021, 08:42:59 PM

Captain Marvel so far is fine--I mean, folks have been ok with generations of male power fantasy superheroes who don't offer much complexity otherwise in motivational terms, and maybe that's because they can't--at a certain scale of power, the only interesting story to tell in motivational terms is "why don't I kill every modestly bad person the moment they do something bad?" which is a story that probably shouldn't end with the conventional superheroic "because it's wrong!" but also can't end with "because I'd have to kill half the planet!" in an entertaining action movie.

Black Widow? I mean, it wanted to edge around "child sex assassin trafficking is super bad" as a kind of metaphorical structure but that's not exactly a complicated premise that anyone feels like debating later. It might have been more complicated if Natasha and Yelena had to reckon with "we are very good at what we do but what made us is very very very bad and there should never be anybody like us again and actually we want to die" because that would have connected up to Endgame more powerfully. But ScarJo is 100% not up for portraying a damaged person of that kind and Pugh, bless her, was playing someone who was both more matter-of-fact about the damage she's suffered and having more fun in an odd way with being a highly-trained assassin.
HaemishM
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Reply #75 on: July 14, 2021, 09:29:19 PM

I thought the villain was the weakest part, mainly because Winstone didn't even try with that accent and the director didn't seem to care. I didn't MIND Taskmaster - the look was fantastic. I do regret that it's basically a one-off when they could have easily created a Loki-level witty character they could reuse in many movies (based on the version from the comics).

eldaec
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Reply #76 on: July 15, 2021, 08:36:51 AM

I don't think this really stops them using taskmaster again if they want.

Did they even use the name?

"Blah blah I found her outfit and the tech that let her copy people blah blah".

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HaemishM
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Reply #77 on: July 15, 2021, 08:54:59 AM

They did say "activate the Taskmaster protocol."

It certainly doesn't stop them using a different person as Taskmaster, with the same tech. Maybe Valentina will use one as part of Thunderbolts.

Khaldun
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Reply #78 on: July 15, 2021, 11:41:36 AM

I mean, sure, they can even have some comic-booky thing where someone else wears the suit and somehow the suit impresses itself onto their brain and they don't need the suit any longer.

The part of comic-book Taskmaster that doesn't work in the MCU (but was hilariously great in the comics) was "I train goons for supervillains and I'm really only interested in profit, not fighting super-heroes".

The basic idea of Taskmaster as someone who is not really looking for a fight but just the money, but who if it comes to it can take out a bunch of adversaries, that's fun and it would take a new version to get that. Probably there's some version of "I train disposable goons" that makes MCU sense, even.
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Reply #79 on: July 15, 2021, 07:46:53 PM

Thinking of taskmaster in that regard the MCU has largely avoided doing the whole "evil organization with millions of dollars and hundreds of goons pose a threat to world stability" arc type. There isn't a persistent group of bad guys who "just get away" or "above the law". The closest we've come to that is maybe Hydra getting two movies to exist as an organization before getting rofl stomped by the combine might of a literal thundergod and a giant green rage monster who finds bullets annoying in the opening act.

It would be kinda hard for people to take comic task master seriously when his goons get their face melted by a casual iron man elbow.
Khaldun
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Reply #80 on: July 16, 2021, 07:50:39 PM

He could care less about the goons, they're rent-a-goons for guys who want to conquer the world. He'd generally rather not fight super-heroes either because there's no money in it. But if he's gotta, he's pretty capable of beating most of them except maybe the guys at the upper tier power spectrum, but he'd never be dumb enough to go in against them anyway if he could avoid it.
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Reply #81 on: July 21, 2021, 08:23:11 AM

The taskmaster should stay a niche comedy show on YouTube.
Sky
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Reply #82 on: July 23, 2021, 09:31:17 AM

Goddamned Brie Larson.
TheWalrus
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Reply #83 on: July 23, 2021, 05:14:56 PM

K

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Khaldun
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Reply #84 on: July 23, 2021, 06:54:41 PM

It is interesting to see all the pearl-clutching about the film only performing as well as IM2 or whatever. Like, come on, the particulars of this environment are pretty PARTICULAR if you know what I mean, and the fact is that it's a decent movie but nothing to jabber excitedly at friends about either. But that's why you don't overread it as a sign of things to come. Nobody should come to conclusions about what tomorrow night's dinner is like based on some crackers and cheese you found while scrounging for something to eat.
HaemishM
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Reply #85 on: July 23, 2021, 08:33:44 PM

Nobody prognosticating on the movie business should take ANY reading from numbers for 2020-2021 at least. There's just way too much preventing people from doing their normal theater routines. I would have GLADLY gone to see this in the theater sans Covid, but as it was, I paid the $30 to see it at home despite my friends (all of whom are vaxxed I think) buying out a row of seats at the theater.

Rendakor
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Reply #86 on: July 26, 2021, 02:04:03 PM

Saw this over the weekend. Toward the lower end of MCU movies in my opinion, but it was still fun. Yelena and the Red Guardian were high points, Taskmaster and Dracon (or whatever his name is) were lows. My other big complaint is simply that this movie should have come out when it was chronologically relevant (so after Civil War and before Infinity War). Knowing how ScarJo's story ended really took a lot out of this movie, while not knowing her backstory made her death less meaningful than it could have been. Maybe it will all feel better if I ever get around to an MCU rewatch.

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Draegan
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Reply #87 on: July 29, 2021, 06:58:21 AM

This movie will definitely be better if you watch it chronologically. I just did a rewatch a few months ago and after going through everything, watching Endgame + the Disney+ shows going back to pre-IW just felt underwhelming.
Sir T
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Reply #88 on: July 29, 2021, 06:32:42 PM

The Life support system for the featured ass is suing Disney. The basics is, as I understand it, is that her contract featured a percentage of the profits from theatre sales, and Disney released it simultaneously on Streaming, meaning Scar Jo got less money.

https://www.snopes.com/ap/2021/07/29/scarlett-johansson-sues-disney-over-%E2%80%98black-widow%E2%80%99-release/

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MahrinSkel
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Reply #89 on: July 29, 2021, 11:39:04 PM

Hollywood Accounting is always full of bullshit, but not including "theatrical window premium streaming" in "box office" is particularly bullshit. ScarJo is at her sell-by date, and this is probably the last big movie she's going to have. No bridges left to burn.

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Soulflame
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Reply #90 on: July 30, 2021, 08:36:23 AM

We got any more stellar examples of sexism we want to put on display in this thread?
MahrinSkel
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Reply #91 on: July 30, 2021, 02:16:15 PM

We got any more stellar examples of sexism we want to put on display in this thread?
What? Movies are what they are, you want me to pretend otherwise? Scarlet Johansen is at the upper end of the age range where she can be cast for these kind of roles. Call me an asshole for pointing it out, I'm not the one making the casting decisions.

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« Last Edit: July 30, 2021, 02:17:46 PM by MahrinSkel »

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Sir T
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Reply #92 on: July 30, 2021, 02:26:08 PM

Uh ya, Scar jo is at the age where she gets cast as someones Mother, and roles fade away. Not everyone can be Sigourney Weaver. Is that sexist? Yep. Welcome to Hollywood.

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Samwise
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Reply #93 on: July 30, 2021, 03:09:20 PM

Don't forget:

 - evil witch
 - sassy old lady

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Khaldun
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Reply #94 on: July 30, 2021, 05:03:05 PM

Also:

Aunt May keeps getting sexier, so on the next Spider-Man reboot, ScarJo may be in the running. If they reboot soon.
Rendakor
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Reply #95 on: July 30, 2021, 09:00:22 PM

ScarJo would be a downgrade from Marisa Tomei.

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Samwise
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Reply #96 on: July 30, 2021, 10:47:32 PM

I'm not sure if the human exists who can complete the Rosemary Harris -> Sally Field -> Marisa Tomei -> ? trajectory.  Margot Robbie maybe?

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Velorath
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Reply #97 on: July 31, 2021, 03:33:51 AM

If Disney broke the terms of the contract, and it's sounds pretty cut and dry that they did, then Johansson is making the right move here.

In regards to the future of her career, regardless of what people think about her acting abilities she's largely made pretty smart career choices particularly in the past decade or so. She tends to work for respected directors (the Coens, Wes Anderson, Spike Jonze,
Noah Baumbach, Favreau, Taika, etc...) has been in a number of critically successful films, and also been in what by most metrics the most successful film franchise of all time. Yes, women's opportunities dry up a bit in Hollywood as they get older, but I don't think her opportunities were just going to vanish in the next year or two.
eldaec
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Reply #98 on: August 02, 2021, 03:51:53 AM

Anywhere I've seen a reputable news site report on the likely contract wording, they've said it will reference a 'theatrical release' or 'wide theatrical release' rather than an exclusive one.

And scarjo is arguing that must mean exclusive.

If it specifically says exclusive theatrical release I seriously doubt things would have got this far.

But the case seems to be based on perceived understanding of what words probably meant rather than what they actually say.


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"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
SurfD
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Reply #99 on: August 02, 2021, 04:28:43 AM

Anywhere I've seen a reputable news site report on the likely contract wording, they've said it will reference a 'theatrical release' or 'wide theatrical release' rather than an exclusive one.

And scarjo is arguing that must mean exclusive.

If it specifically says exclusive theatrical release I seriously doubt things would have got this far.

But the case seems to be based on perceived understanding of what words probably meant rather than what they actually say.


Ars Technica has a pretty good writeup on it, but yeah, it does look very heavily like it comes down to 1/2 semantics and 1/2 "industry standard gentleman's agreement" as far as the definition of "wide theatrical release".

On one hand, her contract doesn't explicitly state "no simultaneous releases to other formats", but on the other hand, "wide theatrical release" is pretty commonly understood to mean "exclusive theater run for first X months" in the industry, so she probably does have a decent case there.  I mean, if Disney actually wins this one, you can pretty much expect that every contract going forward will EXPLICITLY in no uncertain terms attempt to clarify that currently existing "gentleman's agreement" just to prove a point.

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Hammond
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Reply #100 on: August 02, 2021, 09:20:17 AM

So I ended up renting it on Disney+. I had a few friends over and we drank beer and ate take out.

Not a bad movie all in all and it was worth the 30 dollars. I so feel like Scarlett Johansson will probably end up winning at get at least part of the money. Hollywood is moving to streaming and the contracts with the talent are going to have to keep up. The people that are getting caught in the middle of the transition are getting screwed over and my guess is this is the tip of the iceberg for what is going to come.
Sky
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Reply #101 on: August 02, 2021, 09:48:11 AM

They want $30 for it on top of the subscription? JFC
eldaec
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Reply #102 on: August 02, 2021, 10:12:20 AM

They want $30 for it on top of the subscription? JFC

I didn't mind the cost for two reasons.

Firstly it is pay once watch as much as you want. Second they were completely upfront about how long you need to wait if you don't pay.

Neither of these things make it better value. They just made it feel like making a grown up decision to buy a thing from a company that wasn't playing silly games.

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eldaec
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Reply #103 on: August 02, 2021, 10:17:51 AM

Anywhere I've seen a reputable news site report on the likely contract wording, they've said it will reference a 'theatrical release' or 'wide theatrical release' rather than an exclusive one.

And scarjo is arguing that must mean exclusive.

If it specifically says exclusive theatrical release I seriously doubt things would have got this far.

But the case seems to be based on perceived understanding of what words probably meant rather than what they actually say.


Ars Technica has a pretty good writeup on it, but yeah, it does look very heavily like it comes down to 1/2 semantics and 1/2 "industry standard gentleman's agreement" as far as the definition of "wide theatrical release".

On one hand, her contract doesn't explicitly state "no simultaneous releases to other formats", but on the other hand, "wide theatrical release" is pretty commonly understood to mean "exclusive theater run for first X months" in the industry, so she probably does have a decent case there.  I mean, if Disney actually wins this one, you can pretty much expect that every contract going forward will EXPLICITLY in no uncertain terms attempt to clarify that currently existing "gentleman's agreement" just to prove a point.

I'm also not sure if she is saying she gets a smaller % from streaming than she does from theatres and the strategy transferred sales from theatre to streams, or if she is saying that the strategy reduced overall gross on the film.

The former is easily fixed in new contracts, the latter would seem a hard argument to make.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
HaemishM
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Reply #104 on: August 02, 2021, 10:53:47 AM

None of the contracts that were written on these movies was done with the pandemic in mind. So I'm sure streaming royalties were built in, but at a much lower rate, probably around the same as DVD sales or showings on HBO/Showtime/etc. I don't imagine that the difference is $50 million worth, but one thing jury duty has taught me is that the lawyer for the plaintiff always puts his ask much higher than he expects to get because it's likely to get reduced if you go all the way to trial. This won't go to trial. It'll be settled for some smaller, undisclosed amount. And every contract going forward (as well as negotiations with SAG and SWG) will try to get some more explicit clauses in there involving emergency/non-exclusive situations like this one.

I paid the $30 for the streaming and didn't feel bad about it. There are very few movies I would do that for, but considering how consistently good the MCU movies have been, even the bad ones, I felt it was a decent risk. I likely would have paid half that to see it in the theater but for the benefit of not having to subject myself to plague monkeys and spreadnecks, or having to wait a few months for it, I was ok with the premium. It should probably be less, but it's Disney.

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