Star Wars 9 : The Rise of Skywalker

[Soln]

A YT critic (Jeremy Jahns) started off his review by calling it “memberberry soup”.

[SurfD]

My question is: if this is the result they ended up with after TWO massive re-edits/shoots due to the fact that their first and second edit screenings ended up with feedback so bad the movie in it's original form was deemed practically unwatchable, then exactly how bad WAS the first and second edit?

[Trippy]

Kathleen Kennedy's head will be gone, but with a prearranged golden parachute. MAYBE Eisner as well, but he's probably safe.

Eisner? Did you mean CEO and Chairman of the Board Bob Iger? He's not going anywhere, having overseen the creation of the greatest film and TV studio of all time, at least not before his already stated retirement at the end of 2021 when his contract expires.

[MahrinSkel]

I've seen every Star Wars movie, *ever*, in theaters. Even Solo. which I didn't expect much from....

I may sit this one out. Wait for streaming.

--Dave

[HaemishM]

The narrative will be „well RoS sucked but it’s because JJ Abrams had to fix everything that Rian Johnson fucked up and that didn’t work out“. and not because it’s a design by committee appeasement to every gripe of a small but vocal raging mad fanbase.

It can very easily be both. Also, Last Jedi sucked hard.

Unfortunately, I'm a goddamn sucker, so will be seeing this on Saturday.

[Cyrrex]

If you're going into this looking to pick it to shreds, you will succeed.  It does a lot of things wrong.

On the other hand, it does a lot of things right.  Some parts of it I absolutely loved.  People have pretty strange expectations for their pretend magical space wizard movies.  I haven't fully digested what I saw, but I was more entertained by this than anything else I have seen this year, except possibly Endgame.  I for sure like it better than Last Jedi.

[HaemishM]

Clearly, my expectations are supremely low. I don't think they'll be able to salvage what they started, but I'm giving them my money, so I must have some hope. Maybe... a new hope?

WOMP WOMP.

[schild]

how many bad star wars movies need to exist until neckbeards just throw up their hands and say "fine, it's our Hellraiser"

[Velorath]

If you're going into this looking to pick it to shreds, you will succeed.  It does a lot of things wrong.

On the other hand, it does a lot of things right.  Some parts of it I absolutely loved.  People have pretty strange expectations for their pretend magical space wizard movies.  I haven't fully digested what I saw, but I was more entertained by this than anything else I have seen this year, except possibly Endgame.  I for sure like it better than Last Jedi.

I realize your post is not directed at any one person. That said I can only speak for myself.

A look back through my post history will show that I'm not a huge fan of Star Wars, particularly in recent years. I thought Force Awakens was ok, and really didn't like Last Jedi.  Really enjoying the Mandalorian right now though so I am still capable of acknowledging when someone does something good with the property. I wasn't particularly interested in watching this movie but due to it being an aspect of my job I went ahead with it when the opportunity presented itself. As the guy who recently bought a 4k UHD of the r-rated cut of Tammy and the T-Rex, I feel confident in saying when I don't enjoy The Rise of Skywalker, it's not because I'm incapable of properly setting my expectations to suit the material. At least with Tammy and the T-Rex though, it feels like it's the movie the writer/director really wanted to make.

There are moments I liked in the movie, and throughout the trilogy I've consistently liked the cast. The narrative though feels like it's going through the motions because everyone knows they've got to put this trilogy behind them before they can all move on. There's not an ounce of inspiration in it. There's no indication that J.J. Abrams came back because he had come up with a great conclusion and really wanted to put it out there. There's every indication that he came back due to the reaction to TLJ. There is no soul to this movie, and a good chunk of the emotion it does manage to evoke is due to the real life passing of Carrie Fisher rather than anything the movie itself earns. It falls into the trap so many reboots, remakes, and sequels fall into, in that it's so referential to the original, that you should just be re-watching the original instead.

But "hey, it's a popcorn movie", and "turn off your brain" I can already hear people saying, while ignoring the fact that going all the way back to the original blockbuster of Jaws through the Marvel assembly line of today we've seen that you can make a fun popcorn flick that also has substance, good writing, and interesting characters. Even with all that aside though, what if you're just here for the spectacle and the laser swords? I'm struggling to think of even one action set-piece that's on par with the best ones in the series and I think the climactic space battle is actively bad with the exception of a quick cameo. With Phantom Menace we could almost all agree that while the movie is bad it has probably the best lightsaber fight in the franchise, but there's just nothing to latch onto here. Again, we go back to nothing here being inspired or clever. In a movie with spaceships and laser swords, they couldn't manage one "holy shit, that was cool" moment. Say what you will about Holdo's hyperspace ram in TLJ, at the very least it made for a cool visual.

The folks behind this movie made a calculated decision to finish this thing off by playing it as safe as possible. That's the one thing they succeeded in.

[Trippy]

how many bad star wars movies need to exist until neckbeards just throw up their hands and say "fine, it's our Hellraiser"

How many can they make before us Gen Xers are all dead?

[Cyrrex]

If you're going into this looking to pick it to shreds, you will succeed.  It does a lot of things wrong.

On the other hand, it does a lot of things right.  Some parts of it I absolutely loved.  People have pretty strange expectations for their pretend magical space wizard movies.  I haven't fully digested what I saw, but I was more entertained by this than anything else I have seen this year, except possibly Endgame.  I for sure like it better than Last Jedi.

Stuff, plus more stuff.

I don't disagree as such with anything you said.  What it boils down to for me is simply that I like the actors and their acting, the visuals were good, some of the pandering that lots of people hate I actually like, the plot mostly made sense, the screenplay was executed competently, sprinkled in with feel good moments, etc.  I just came out of it feeling differently, even if I agree with your basic outline of the facts.

[Soln]

I like that the reviews and reactions are fully distracting me from the Impeachment.

[Yegolev]

how many bad star wars movies need to exist until neckbeards just throw up their hands and say "fine, it's our Hellraiser"

Not counting this new one, at least seven. Nine if you count differently.

[Threash]

Ya'll are weird, I thought it was pretty good.

[Velorath]

I’d almost be willing to meet you halfway and say that it’s a technically competent if unoriginal movie, but I think the movie’s climax is actually bad.

[TheWalrus]

Threash liked it, I'm all set.

[Abagadro]

I didn't hate it. There is some good stuff here if you are a fan and it is well-made technically. They just made one MONUMENTAL bad choice that tanks the movie overall. And they absolutely didn't need to. Major self-own.  I'll talk more about it after more people have seen it.l

[Cyrrex]

Hmm.  I wonder if you are even thinking of the same "mistake" that I am.  Because if so, I didn't think so much of it at the time, but I am kinda thinking so now.

[Abagadro]

The more I am thinking about it, the more angry I am getting. It...was...right...there.  A very nice thematic thru-put from A New Hope to the end of the saga that would have tied the entire thing together. Only needed a a few minor tweaks. Literally remove 3 lines of dialogue, change one character, and have the climax bring the theme home. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

Fine, since I'm saucy now:

 

[Jeff Kelly]

It still baffles my mind why people think JJ Abrams is great. He’s just offensively mediocre in everything he does and he does not give a single fuck about any of the things he does.

[Comstar]

On the other hand, it does a lot of things right.  Some parts of it I absolutely loved.  People have pretty strange expectations for their pretend magical space wizard movies.  I haven't fully digested what I saw, but I was more entertained by this than anything else I have seen this year, except possibly Endgame.  I for sure like it better than Last Jedi.

What parts were done right? I need to find some :(

[Cyrrex]

Not going to debate any of the specifics at this time, in part because I am still processing it myself, and in part because I don't think we want to turn this into a spoiler thread just yet.

Let's just say that for starters, I have the exact opposite opinion on the spoiler that Ab mentioned.  I think I even predicted exactly that scenario at some point since TFA, because I thought it made sense.

[MisterNoisy]

Watching this felt like watching a let's play of a middling-tier video game.

[Samwise]

Watching this felt like watching a let's play of a middling-tier video game.

I LOLed.

[schild]

Watching this felt like watching a let's play of a middling-tier video game.

Let's Play Madden 2018.

I don't know what middling is. All I do is play good shit and ignore the rest.

[Riggswolfe]

Not going to debate any of the specifics at this time, in part because I am still processing it myself, and in part because I don't think we want to turn this into a spoiler thread just yet.

Let's just say that for starters, I have the exact opposite opinion on the spoiler that Ab mentioned.  I think I even predicted exactly that scenario at some point since TFA, because I thought it made sense.

I'm in the same camp as you. There were parts I had issues with in this movie but in general I really enjoyed it. I'm not sure where I'd rank it among all the various Star Wars films yet but I know it's well above the Last Jedi. Ironically, the main issues I had with it relate back to the last Jedi as I felt the first 45 minutes of this movie could have replaced all the shitty stuff they had Poe and Finn waste their time on in the Last Jedi. It would have improved that movie a ton and let this one have some time to breath.

I'm curious to see how this one plays out. I suspect it will be divisive but for utterly different reasons to the Last Jedi. Last Jedi disappointed me so badly I skipped Solo which I ended up (mostly) enjoying. This one I enjoyed much more but it's still got some weak parts. About the only thing I agree with the critics on is that this feels like 2 movies in one a sort of super short Episode VIII and then episode IX for the last half. If any lessons are learned at Lucasfilm it needs to be "Han Solo can fly be the seat of his pants, but we can't, we need to plan this shit out."

[Phildo]

My wife really enjoyed this, I found myself entertained but constantly pulled out by bits of fan service and stuff that didn't seem like it made any sense at all.

[TheWalrus]

JJ can't be assed to be deep or consistent.

[Quinton]

JJ clearly has absolutely no sense of scale.

Time, Distance, Size, Quantity, it's clearly all an incomprehensible mishmash to him (and as a result an utter mess in his movies).

And he has also clearly never learned that less is more.  Why have 10 of something when you could have 100, or 1000, or 10000?!

[Brolan]

Not terrible, but a confused muddled mess of a movie.   The last 20 minutes were a long continuous WTF? moment.

The only part where I think it succeeded is that I finally grew to like the new characters.  It only took three moves for that to happen.

[Sir T]

JJ Abrams and transporting from Earth to Klingon.

It still baffles me that people are STILL standing there shocked when this fucking franchise Bruce Lee's their nuts. I shook the dust from my feet at the Phanton Menace, but 20 years later everyone else is STILL going "uh, Well it was kinda goods... ok lets commense the long bounce down into admitting movie sucks yet again... well the NEXT one will be good!!"

Star Wars sucks guys. It's loaded down with utter bollox. Its never getting better. Its time to just admit it. The best thing to come out of it since the original movies were the Knoghts of the Old Republic games, and thats becasue they took Lightsabers and stuck them into a different universe.

[Abagadro]

Mandalorian is showing how Star Wars can be good when someone with half a brain is in charge of it.

[Khaldun]

Abrams' contempt for distance and remoteness as storytelling structures is an indication of how shitty he really is as a creator. These are basic even if you're doing an intimate crime drama that takes place in a single neighborhood. How long it takes to get from one place to another is vital; how hard it is to get from one place to another is crucial. Think of something like the original "Halloween" where the killer just teleports to his victim every time--the suspense created by him having to cross a physical space vanishes. Think of any movie you really like, and eliminate the constriction of distance and of terrain. About the only films that survive if you do that are parlor movies built around conversation--My Dinner With Andre, etc.

But it's especially awful when he's hired to work on franchises that depend on distance and material constraint to create some of the tension of their action. Imagine if in Episode IV, the moment they get in the Millennium Falcon, Han Solo just turns a switch and there's no issue with the blockade and seconds later they're looking the Death Star in the eye. Imagine if the Death Star just hyperspaces in right on top of Yavin IV and blasts it. Imagine if the Empire has no material constraints on searching for the Republic and can send a fleet to every star system within a few days. Etc. It's stupid and disrespectful to the basics of storytelling in this universe. (Or in Star Trek.)  Abrams is an idiot who should never have been let near this franchise except as a consultant.

But please go on telling us about how horrible The Last Jedi was. Because that's what let to Abrams being hired to serve us all vanilla pap.

[schild]

distance, despite being a meme, was always horseshit in star wars anyway

why would that start mattering now

[HaemishM]

So this movie should have been titled Star Wars - Context is for Assholes. It is a complete and utter mess from start to finish. I mean, it started with the fucking text crawl - the mysterious message from Palpatine. I was like 'WUT?" in the theater. Just out of the blue, no connection to anything that has gone on in the last two movies or anywhere in between, fuck it, we'll just resurrect a long-dead character with zero context. And it continued on from there. The first half-hour looks like it was edited with a fucking woodchipper. Not just the film but the actual story. It felt like Burrough Naked Lunch writing experiment where he gets shithoused and throws up all these written pages in the air and whatever order they come down in, that's the way the story goes.

Worst parts


The set pieces were mind numbingly boring and impossible to follow, mostly due to having no real context and no actual sense of scale, just gobs of stupid shit thrown at the screen.

There were 2 positives though. Just two.


I spent a lot of time in the last two movies saying that Rey wasn't a Mary Sue character but JJ just couldn't resist it. She is just about the Mary Sue-est of Mary Sue characters. Just terrible fucking writing from top to bottom, and unlike a lot of JJ's other works, a complete mess technically, visually and thematically. He's a competent filmmaker, but this was not that. Not at all.