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Author Topic: Joker (2019)  (Read 975 times)
Der Helm
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on: April 04, 2019, 05:11:46 AM

Trailer

I am optimistic, this one looks way better than that ... last one.


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Jeff Kelly
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Reply #1 on: April 04, 2019, 07:51:51 AM

The only thing more boring and unnecessary than the origin story of a hero is the origin story of a villain. Secondly, if I want to watch the descend of average white angry dude into madness there's also a host of other movies to choose from, like Taxi Driver or Falling Down.

I don't really get the point of doing a Joker movie
01101010
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Reply #2 on: April 04, 2019, 08:11:24 AM

Simply put, the market is all about the comic book movies right now. That's why we get these movies. And the Joker is the most iconic comic book villain, so that adds to the power of it. Personally I don't really care at all about this movie, but I see the market value.

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Jeff Kelly
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Reply #3 on: April 04, 2019, 08:44:05 AM

The appeal of The Joker as avillain comes from him being enigmatic, stark raving mad and also being the Ying to Batman's Yang.
The worst thing you can do is remove the mystique of The Joker as a character, because you remove his biggest appeal.
01101010
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Reply #4 on: April 04, 2019, 10:44:56 AM

The appeal of The Joker as avillain comes from him being enigmatic, stark raving mad and also being the Ying to Batman's Yang.
The worst thing you can do is remove the mystique of The Joker as a character, because you remove his biggest appeal.

Oh I agree with you, but hollywood is about fucking the money making bloated dead horse.

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Reply #5 on: April 04, 2019, 10:56:10 AM

This looks fucking great. Period.
Ruvaldt
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Reply #6 on: April 04, 2019, 11:21:22 AM

It really does.

I'm getting a serious Scorsese vibe.  Like King of Comedy but with more menace.  Which is fitting considering De Niro is in it.

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Reply #7 on: April 04, 2019, 11:55:11 AM

It feels like an Oscar bait movie - if it wasn't about a comic book character, I'd think Phoenix is going to win an Oscar for it. He still may but it'll be a hard sell.

Ruvaldt
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Reply #8 on: April 04, 2019, 12:17:33 PM

For whatever reason, The Joker is a character a lot of really great actors are drawn to play.  Even Cesar Romero, way back on the original tv show, was awesome for his time.  The only low point I can think of was Jared Leto...

"For a long time now I have tried simply to write the best I can. Sometimes I have good luck and write better than I can." - Ernest Hemingway
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Reply #9 on: April 04, 2019, 12:19:18 PM

The Joker, Hannibal, etc. These are our great villains. Shame Spader will never lose the weight to get at The Joker before he's dead.
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Reply #10 on: April 04, 2019, 04:46:21 PM

I bite my thumb at this movie! It offends every single one of my hyper-sophisticated artistic sensibilities.
Cyrrex
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Reply #11 on: April 05, 2019, 12:28:04 AM

If it can be reasoned (perhaps falsely) that comic book movies are in fashion right now because the super nerds of our own generation are in charge of producing, marketing and/or consuming them....then what do we have to look forward to in 10 years or so when the super nerds of our children's generation is at the wheel?  We'll still be here at F13, having rousing discussions about the merits of a Team Rocket back story movie and who should play the role of Meowth, that's what.

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Goumindong
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Reply #12 on: April 05, 2019, 12:40:07 AM

Melwth should clearly be Ewan McGreggor
SurfD
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Reply #13 on: April 05, 2019, 01:16:02 AM

The only thing more boring and unnecessary than the origin story of a hero is the origin story of a villain.
I would have to disagree.

There are a fairly decent number of villains in comics that could stand on their own as the focus of a movie.   I would kill to get Chris Nolan to direct a Mr. Freeze movie set in his batman universe.   Similarly I think there is incredible merit in the idea of Disney introducing the Fantastic 4 into the marvel universe by using a movie built around Dr. Doom as the main character as the "origin story" vehicle.

In the end though, it all comes down to how you want to treat the characters.  The problem with most comic book villains in movies is that they never get as much attention as they should, because they are almost always intended to be the "villain of the week" kind of disposable appearance in the movies (ie, they only last through a single movie, then it is on to the next one), since the movies are about the heroes.   They get better treatment in the Comics and TV because the extended serial nature of them allows you to spend more time developing the villain.

I mean, take Batman and Joker.  NONE of the movie universes have ever had a Joker that lasted longer than a single installment.  That means you never really get to properly explore how those two characters constantly play off of one another, and while some of the movies do a really good job at cramming as much into the characters as possible in the little time they have, they just never do them as much justice as having a proper, re-occurring villain in the movies would allow.

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Reply #14 on: April 05, 2019, 08:16:18 AM

If it can be reasoned (perhaps falsely) that comic book movies are in fashion right now because the super nerds of our own generation are in charge of producing, marketing and/or consuming them....then what do we have to look forward to in 10 years or so when the super nerds of our children's generation is at the wheel?  We'll still be here at F13, having rousing discussions about the merits of a Team Rocket back story movie and who should play the role of Meowth, that's what.

Well, if Ryan Reynolds is Pikachu, we're already halfway there.

I'm also disappointed this movie was subtitled Joker: How I Got These Scars
Draegan
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Reply #15 on: April 05, 2019, 06:52:03 PM

Trailer looks great.
Threash
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Reply #16 on: April 05, 2019, 07:38:16 PM

Trailer looks great.

Yup, this is where I'm at. In theory the idea sounds retarded but that trailer is something I want to watch.

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BobtheSomething
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Reply #17 on: April 05, 2019, 07:46:47 PM

Trailer looks great.

Yeah, I got two things from the trailer.

1. The movie will probably be fantastic.

2.  I really don't want to see it.

Felt the same way about the Us trailer.
Velorath
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Reply #18 on: April 06, 2019, 12:14:31 AM

Some thoughts:

Joker isn't a great character, because there generally isn't much of an actual character there beyond being a psychopath. He's an iconic character, I'll say that. Part of what works for him is that the lack of solid definition leaves room for a lot of great interpretations. I don't think the character needs an origin story but I'm fine with a movie attempting one because it's not like any future iterations of the Joker are going to have to adhere to it.

After the trailer, I'm more optimistic about the movie than I was before. The main reason behind my pessimism is due to the fact that Todd Phillips doesn't have a stellar filmography. Maybe Hollywood just wasn't letting him write/direct anything other than R-rated comedies after Road Trip and Old School and maybe he actually has the chops for a dark drama like this.

Or maybe it will be terrible and it's just a really well put together trailer.
 
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Reply #19 on: April 06, 2019, 09:07:14 AM

Honestly I have a hard time imagining leaving the theater after this, even if its good and feeling like I've enjoyed my 2 hours. I never get a big kick out of watching how X mass murderer had it rough as a kid. Fiance loves true crime shit, so I've had more instances to examine these feelings than I would like. It doesn't look like it will be fun or funny or zany. So yeah I bet Joaquin will act the fuck outta the role, but what's the payoff exactly? I'm not an acting coach. I have no burning curiosity towards a dark interpretation of how the Joker became the Joker. Its probably better left unsaid unless we were dealing with some very goody/paladin style Batman and we needed to drag him down a bit. But guess what? We aren't. Batman isn't even in this and the Batman of 2019 is a pretty not-nice guy who doesn't need Joker humanized to make the character have more depth / work better.

So yeah awesome trailer. But unless Harley is in it played by some uber hot and talented someone.... What the fuck do I get out of seeing this beyond unnecessary confirmation that Joaquin Phoenix is really fucking good at this whole acting thing?

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
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Reply #20 on: April 06, 2019, 09:36:03 AM

That's a very weird take.
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #21 on: April 08, 2019, 03:04:07 AM

It's weird that watching two hours of "how society made me become a psychopathic mass murderer, please empathize" might not be all that great even if Joacquin Phoenix plays it?
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Reply #22 on: April 08, 2019, 03:22:19 AM

It's weird that watching two hours of "how society made me become a psychopathic mass murderer, please empathize" might not be all that great even if Joacquin Phoenix plays it?

You don't want to empathize with the troubled people in society?

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Reply #23 on: April 08, 2019, 03:46:29 AM

If by troubled you mean a fictional comic book character that dresses like a clown and whose only purpose it is to act as a foil for the hero then: probably no?

There's also a difference between "troubled people in society" and literally Hitler.
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Reply #24 on: April 08, 2019, 05:15:59 AM

If by troubled you mean a fictional comic book character that dresses like a clown and whose only purpose it is to act as a foil for the hero then: probably no?

There's also a difference between "troubled people in society" and literally Hitler.

The Joker is nothing like Hitler. He hates Nazis.


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Jeff Kelly
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Reply #25 on: April 08, 2019, 05:32:46 AM

Touché.

I still fail to see what would make a Joker origin story be interesting and not devolve into yet another "woe is me: why the plight of middle aged white guys drives them to kill" incel wish fullfillment. Even if it is well shot and features Joacquin Phoenix.
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Reply #26 on: April 08, 2019, 08:47:04 AM

It's weird that watching two hours of "how society made me become a psychopathic mass murderer, please empathize" might not be all that great even if Joacquin Phoenix plays it?

You don't want to empathize with the troubled people in society?

I get where he's coming from. This is why I didn't watch the Hannibal movie or read the novel. Troubled people sure. Psychopaths, not so much.

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Reply #27 on: April 08, 2019, 09:46:33 AM

Hannibal is incredible. So is American Psycho.

I much prefer psychopaths to "redemption for the drug user" stories. Or "look how hard life is" stories.
BobtheSomething
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Reply #28 on: April 08, 2019, 11:02:01 AM

How about none of the above?
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Reply #29 on: April 08, 2019, 01:29:48 PM

I'm not a huge fan of Phoenix, but this role should work well for his style. Given the glimpses that back that up pretty well, and the cinematography looking on point...yeah, this looks cool.

HaemishM
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Reply #30 on: April 08, 2019, 04:08:16 PM

Touché.

I still fail to see what would make a Joker origin story be interesting and not devolve into yet another "woe is me: why the plight of middle aged white guys drives them to kill" incel wish fullfillment. Even if it is well shot and features Joacquin Phoenix.

If they follow the Alan Moore blueprint from Killing Joke, the character is actually a husband trying to provide for his pregnant wife as a comedian and failing, so he joins a gang called the Red Hood as a patsy where Batman knocks him into a vat of goo that both fucks up his skin and drives him cray cray. If they go with the New 52 origin, he's just another crazy psychopath as the leader of the Red Hood gang who gets dropped in the goo. The Killing Joke version was at least a compelling character. The New 52 version is better seen as a mysterious force for chaos. It looks like the take is going to be more Alan Moore than Scott Snyder.

Jeff Kelly
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Reply #31 on: April 08, 2019, 04:33:50 PM

Killing Joke is about the only decent take on a Joker origin story which doesn’t say much.
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Reply #32 on: April 09, 2019, 07:14:50 AM

American Psycho is a great movie. Silence of the Lambs was great I never watched Hannibal though not for any reason beyond lack of interest. There was another one? Red Dragon or something I swear and it was just a cash grab that took away from the mystique of the first one. That's probably why I never saw it.

I'm pretty positive this origin story isn't going to involve goo. If it does the entire thing is stupid. If it doesn't the entire thing is just sort of gross? The thing is I liked that Nolan had replaced the goo with Batman himself. The existence of Batman being all dark dangerous and elemental had led to criminals getting weird and Joker was at the forefront of that. That's the best origin story for Joker for me and is another reason I just don't get why this is a movie without Batman.

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Reply #33 on: April 09, 2019, 07:28:37 AM

Sometimes the goal is to make a good movie. Batman movies don't lend themselves to that. Joaquin Phoenix movies do though.
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Reply #34 on: April 09, 2019, 08:58:27 AM

Also, largely Batman in movies has been comically awful, really only Bale has done a good job. Jokers (excepting Nicholson) have been generally good. Leaving out the bat makes sense, it could only turn things into a farce unless they magically found the second decent batman ever.

Killing Joke is a standout for being one of the few decent DC comics outside the horror/war stuff and a few rando issues of Detective Comics where the bat actually detected rather than supered.

In general, the less DC-like it is, the better.

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