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Author Topic: The Witcher (Netflix)  (Read 566 times)
Khaldun
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on: September 05, 2018, 07:55:28 PM

Why aren't we talking about this?

Henry Cavill has been cast as Geralt!

That's actually not bad. They had better not fuck this up though.
Ironwood
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Reply #1 on: September 06, 2018, 03:25:43 AM

Is this a joke ?  You mean Man of Steel Henry Cavill ? 

This is going to be Bright all over again, isn't it ?

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Cyrrex
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Reply #2 on: September 06, 2018, 03:32:56 AM

I...I liked Bright.  Lots of people did.

But yeah, strange choice.

Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
disKret
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Reply #3 on: September 06, 2018, 03:34:51 AM

Steel is for man.
Silver for monsters.

Some guy made nice poster with him https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/08/07/bosslogic-henry-cavill-geralt-witcher-netflix/
« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 03:37:43 AM by disKret »
Ironwood
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Reply #4 on: September 06, 2018, 03:42:50 AM

I...I liked Bright.  Lots of people did.

But yeah, strange choice.

You've kinda made my point though ;  lots of people will like this, I'm sure.

Doesn't mean it's good.
 
 why so serious?

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Cyrrex
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Reply #5 on: September 06, 2018, 04:24:11 AM

Define "good".  Considering it's Witcher, I expect to see some amazing boobs from some of the female characters.  That's one form of "good".

Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
Ironwood
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Reply #6 on: September 06, 2018, 04:33:14 AM

Yes.  Yes, it is.  Especially if they cast Ciri correctly.

However, for this particular variance of good I would like seriously grappling of characterisation, locale and story, mature writing (and I mean mature not just 'hey our guys are grownup so there's a lot of rapey violence) and a plot that even remotely makes sense.

But that's just me and my initial demands.   why so serious?

Also, I really, really can't see Hank in the role.  I dunno why, I know he can act when he has a good script and direction, but he doesn't fit the hole of Geralt in my mind.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Cadaverine
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Reply #7 on: September 06, 2018, 05:08:01 PM

It may end up being a great story, but I think tying it to The Witcher will do more harm than good.  Not hearing Geralt's voice will be particularly jarring.

Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats.
Cyrrex
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Reply #8 on: September 07, 2018, 12:52:34 AM


Also, I really, really can't see Hank in the role.  I dunno why, I know he can act when he has a good script and direction, but he doesn't fit the hole of Geralt in my mind.


A bit unrelated, but since I never admitted it in the proper thread:  I remember clearly when the casting for Wonder Woman came out and that tiny little waif Gal Gadot was the result.  I am pretty sure I expressed my general displeasure and it basically amounted to an argument that there was no way that fragile, small boobed little model girl was ever going to pull off WW.  Uh, I was not close to being right.  Irrespective of opinions of WW the movie itself, she was near perfectly cast in my mind.  Yum.

So, maybe Henry can manage it.  I have stopped trying to pretend I can predict such things.  They are actors, after all, this is what they do.

Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
Ironwood
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Reply #9 on: September 07, 2018, 03:18:00 AM

I understand that all too well.  There have been casting choices I've not been sure about in the past that were spot on.   I realise and admit that this may just be another one of those times.  But isn't really working in my head, even though I've since seen mock up pics posted around the net that show that physically it can work just fine.  I will also say I've been the guy in your shoes telling someone it'll be ok and it has been, so hey, maybe overreaction.

I just think Geralt really needs that world weary desperation that I'm not sure how it'll work.  But hey, bitching about stuff years out is what we do !

And, yeah, Gadot worked brilliantly and Heath worked brilliantly.  It's all about the material and direction and giving talented chaps some freedom, I guess.



"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Teleku
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Reply #10 on: September 07, 2018, 03:32:02 AM

Yeah, ultimately its the creative team in charge of the project I will worry about far more than any of the particular actors.  Seems to be the biggest driver of quality these days, especially these premium series.  The glaring quality differences between one episode of GoT and the next has really hammered that home.

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
-Stephen Colbert
Khaldun
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Reply #11 on: September 07, 2018, 05:57:16 AM

Yeah. They have to get the material and the characters. If they do that, getting Cavill to play it right is the easy job, in relative terms.
Khaldun
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Reply #12 on: September 08, 2018, 08:54:02 PM

Apparently certain people are freaking out that a casting call for Ciri calls for non-white actresses.

If there's one main character in the whole series that I would cast that way, it might be Ciri--Nilfgaard is an empire that conquers to the south as well as north, it's a pseudo-Rome, and could easily have folks of various racial/ethnic groups within it. Her dad has a pretty damn complicated individual history where it would not be hard to recast him too. (Though making the Nilfgaardian emperor non-white then puts the war with the North in a different and kind of unsavory light--these moves are never easy.)

I basically think it's fine--if they find the right person. Honestly they could also make the Elder Race racially diverse too, or otherwise mess with it. Doesn't matter if the casting is good.
Wasted
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Reply #13 on: September 09, 2018, 09:36:42 AM

Well, whatever they make Ciri they need to make Lara Dorren too so it does have implications for the Elves.  I guess I can understand that maybe they want to differentiate their fantasy from Tolkeinesque elves to show this is a different type of world and story.

Though I guess I worry a bit when you have source material this good and the people involved can't just make it as written.
Khaldun
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Reply #14 on: September 09, 2018, 10:14:00 AM

When you're casting, I actually think it's great to open yourself as widely as possible rather than just stick to someone who is the absolutely perfect mirror of a character who has been depicted visually in another medium. There are limits--if you're doing a serious historical film and you cast Abraham Lincoln by picking a short, fat 20-something Asian actor while everyone else looks period-appropriate, that's not going to work.

Soln
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Reply #15 on: September 09, 2018, 11:22:35 AM

There are people (hello) who know nothing about this game or its narrative and world.  They will need to GOT it like HBO did.  That means competent if unknown actors.

I assume this is a GOT series play?
Khaldun
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Reply #16 on: September 09, 2018, 08:29:40 PM

I would think. Though it's a lot more intimate in scale simply because Geralt is always narratively at the heart of it. I do not want a Witcher series that's suddenly switching over to the detailed doings in Emhyr's court or whatever for half an episode. The best stuff in the books and the game are when Geralt gets caught up in dealing with a particular monster and discovering the darker psychological and historical secrets of people in a given community, or finding out which of the more powerful forces in his world are fucking things up for ordinary people in some way.
Riggswolfe
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Reply #17 on: September 16, 2018, 12:29:10 AM

Apparently certain people are freaking out that a casting call for Ciri calls for non-white actresses.

If there's one main character in the whole series that I would cast that way, it might be Ciri--Nilfgaard is an empire that conquers to the south as well as north, it's a pseudo-Rome, and could easily have folks of various racial/ethnic groups within it. Her dad has a pretty damn complicated individual history where it would not be hard to recast him too. (Though making the Nilfgaardian emperor non-white then puts the war with the North in a different and kind of unsavory light--these moves are never easy.)

I basically think it's fine--if they find the right person. Honestly they could also make the Elder Race racially diverse too, or otherwise mess with it. Doesn't matter if the casting is good.


The issue is really two fold:

1) The creators said they intend to honor the source material
2) Ciri is described in the books as having pale skin, green eyes and ashen hair.

I think, for example, with that description they could go for say an Asian actress fairly easily. I also think if they'd put out a casting call for any actress of a certain age then the argument could be made that they simply chose the best actress for the job. By specifically going for a BAME (I think that's the acronym?) they have signalled that they are deliberating changing a character from the books which makes part 1 somewhat of a lie as it directly contradicts 2. Obviously an argument can be made that it's her storyline that is most important.

The more fascinating response to this has been from Polish people themselves. I don't pretend to know more than the basics of their history but my reading of it has basically been that they feel it's another example of people not giving a shit about the Polish.

I'm a bit iffy on it. I'm generally resistant to changing established characters. Especially if it is being done for what feels like political reasons as opposed to "(S)he was the best person who auditioned." That said, to echo the Henry Cavill talk above, I've been wrong about casting choices before going all the way back to "WTF? Michael Keaton as Batman? They hired Beetlejuice? I thought this was going to be a serious Batman movie???" so I could be totally wrong here.

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
Ironwood
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Reply #18 on: September 16, 2018, 08:27:05 AM

Oh, this again.

Historical or Source Accuracy.  The last bastion of racist fucksticks everywhere.

It's even more hilarious when it's 'Accuracy in my fantasy world please'.

Just... Fuck Off.


(In general, not at anyone specifically writing here.)

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Teleku
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Reply #19 on: September 16, 2018, 08:55:55 AM

I donít have a dog in this race because Iíve played like the first 5 minutes of any of the Witcher games.  I know the Witcher games have bewbs though, so hiring a sufficiently hot actress that is not totally horrible to listen to is my only concern.   awesome, for real

But, I can understand why specifically the poles are so mad.  This franchise becoming so internationally renown is a huge point of national pride for them (they literally gave Obama a copy of The Witcher 2 as his state gift when he visited), especially considering how much Europeans like to shit on them and throw racist stereotypes their way.  So its finally getting a big budget screen adaptation, and now Hollywood is doing the usual white washing of source material to conform to western marketing standards.  I mean, this sort of thing is common, but any major deviation from the source material by a foreign writer is going to be seen as an insult to them.

But hey, hot Asian chick with white hair is fine for me so whatever.

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
-Stephen Colbert
Khaldun
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Reply #20 on: September 16, 2018, 09:40:23 AM

That part is complicated in a couple of ways, though. Sapkowski is himself kind of a curmudgeon--he rather infamously doesn't like the video games despite the fact that they are why his books are now selling well all over the planet rather than just in Poland. But also it's not as if the books are either explicitly set in a fantasy version of medieval Poland (medieval Poland has a really interesting political history, but it doesn't really match up with the map of kingdoms/states in the Witcher novels); and the books are also not exactly super-complimentary to most of the people in the fantasy world Sapkowski constructs. Geralt's an unambiguously heroic--if morally and emotionally complex--figure, but there aren't too many other characters like him in that sense. On the flip side, though, the monsters are never unambiguously monstrous. So this isn't like messing with a long-standing legend that is at the heart of a culture's own identity, say, as if I went off and cast a bunch of white people in the Sundiata epic or cast an all-Latino cast in the Iliad.

There's also the frequent pastiche/Easter egg references to tons of other fantasy in Sapkowski to consider--a decent number of the stories are subverting or poking fun at canonical fantasy characters and properties. I think that's another reason why messing with the look of some of it is fine.

The basic elements I think you have to have are:

Witchers as monster hunters for hire, who insist on getting paid.
Monsters as the result of human misdeeds of various kinds, where fighting them takes understanding their creation; where sometimes they can be negotiated with
Geralt as being a bit more willing than the average witcher to at least try talking it out with a monster, and as being a bit more inclined to take it out on the idiots that caused the monster's havoc
Geralt as being drawn into the complex politics of his world despite wanting nothing to do with it
The witchers as a dying order; witcher creation as morally repulsive
People generally being corrupt, greedy, etc. but also as being ambiguous/complex
Elves, dwarves as victims of human racism
Dandelion as being a pretentious but loveable sleazebag
Geralt being constantly drawn into sexual/romantic entanglements
Boobs
Ciri as important to a prophecy

Teleku
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Reply #21 on: September 16, 2018, 10:09:57 AM

Yeah, I'm not even going to pretend I have a full understanding of what ever crossovers there are in Witcher lore and Polish folklore.  But regardless of all that, they are very proud of about this, so having a foreigner make any big changes to it is going to get backlash.  Many British scream (justifiably) about how American studios change their shows/books around to adapt for American audiences, and this is basically that times 10 for them.  Even a small thing is going to get some resentment.  We all know that's probably the wrong attitude to take on this, since you really need some flexibility with screen adaptions, but there is understandably a lot of historical and cultural baggage coming in with this.  So I will at least grant they can be justifiably angry if they want.

As somebody who really prefers studios stick as faithfully as possible to source material, I can understand why some big fans of the books/games would be peeved about this.  But it should just be an annoyance for that group, not a huge issue.

Every other incel on the internet screaming about this thats not apart of those two groups can fuck off.

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
-Stephen Colbert
satael
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Reply #22 on: September 16, 2018, 11:36:46 AM

I'm just interested in whether the change is for all of Nilfgaard considering that
Ceryse
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Reply #23 on: September 16, 2018, 11:37:18 AM

Personally... I don't care too much, so long as whatever actress they get is good at the role. That said, I generally prefer source materials being honoured (for example, I hated Scarlett Johansson being cast as the Major in Ghost in the Shell because not only was it a dumb instance of changing the source material but she's not that good of an actress -- not that it mattered in the end; the movie would have been trash regardless of casting). Casting a black actor (or other minority) comes off more as pandering in this instance than anything else, in my opinion.

Best opinion I've found on it, personally, is from here; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifJ24E9WX30 which notes that in this case the BAME casting call (which sparked the controversy) could likely be aimed as Polish/Slavic as the ethnic minority. She also points out some issues with casting Ciri as black within the racial demographics of the world and story consequences, as well as how it could be seen as reinforcing a stereotype regarding black fathers.

In the end, imo; follow source materials while getting the best actor/actress to play roles is the best way to go.
Riggswolfe
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Reply #24 on: September 16, 2018, 02:38:39 PM


As somebody who really prefers studios stick as faithfully as possible to source material, I can understand why some big fans of the books/games would be peeved about this.  But it should just be an annoyance for that group, not a huge issue.



This is more or less where I am on this. It bugs me because they're deviating from the source material and don't even seem to be doing it for a good reason. That said I'm not going to rant and rave about boycotting the show or whatever I just find it annoying.

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
Khaldun
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Reply #25 on: September 16, 2018, 03:36:42 PM

You guys may not know that Sapkowski has occasionally said that the games deviate from his books in ways that annoy him. Reading the books, I can see a few things that might be on his mind, (including the lack of his semi-postmodern tweaking of other fantasy narratives), but in many ways I think Witcher 2 and 3 are improvements on the source material. That's all I care about, really--make it better if you're going to change it. If that's saying, "We'll look at the widest field of possible cast members", I can't imagine objecting if the outcomes are good.
Riggswolfe
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Reply #26 on: September 16, 2018, 04:52:34 PM

You guys may not know that Sapkowski has occasionally said that the games deviate from his books in ways that annoy him. Reading the books, I can see a few things that might be on his mind, (including the lack of his semi-postmodern tweaking of other fantasy narratives), but in many ways I think Witcher 2 and 3 are improvements on the source material. That's all I care about, really--make it better if you're going to change it. If that's saying, "We'll look at the widest field of possible cast members", I can't imagine objecting if the outcomes are good.


To my knowledge the biggest change is that the games take place after the final book and


So I can understand how he's unhappy. I've played the games and read the books and that's the most obvious thing that stands out to me other than some things like Triss feeling different in the game than she does in the book. A more prominent character for one thing.

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
Ironwood
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Reply #27 on: September 17, 2018, 03:47:48 AM

That...seems like a rather large change.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
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