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Author Topic: Fallout 76  (Read 6462 times)
Soulflame
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Reply #175 on: October 10, 2018, 12:45:15 PM

Bounty coming from the wallet of the player?  What happens if the player can't cover it?

Clearly they have not done the slightest bit of research on MMOs.  At all.

Having a mule account to support a red account is damn near a requirement.
schild
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Reply #176 on: October 10, 2018, 12:49:56 PM

The game is literally made by ex mmo and online devs in Austin.

It's not that they didn't do research, it's that the genre is bad.
Rendakor
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Reply #177 on: October 10, 2018, 01:26:27 PM

But this isn't an MMO, this is some sort of small-server Rust/Ark thing right?

Also I love how antiquated their "anti-griefing" system sounds. Noob player is shooting monster; Dickhead player runs through the bullet hail, taking minimal damage because he is not flagged. Dickhead player uses the maximum cooldown time to move to an appropriate distance, then murders Noob player with little consequence since Noob player technically shot first. swamp poop why so serious?

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Trippy
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Reply #178 on: October 10, 2018, 01:30:28 PM

Bounty coming from the wallet of the player?  What happens if the player can't cover it?

Clearly they have not done the slightest bit of research on MMOs.  At all.
Actually in this one case they have -- you get a massive debuff if you can't cover the bounty on yourself.

https://www.vg247.com/2018/10/08/fallout-76-murderer-debuff/

Quote
Having a mule account to support a red account is damn near a requirement.
Yup.
Sir T
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Reply #179 on: October 10, 2018, 04:49:59 PM

Anything other than "tell the human population to fuck off and not affect me" means my money stays where it is, thanks. Because I guarantee you people are building spreadsheets about "how many people you need with this weapon and at this level" to drop someone. Even worse if you can't pass through other people so you will be stuck in place while they unload at you for an hour.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 01:46:35 AM by Sir T »

Sometimes irony is pretty ironic.
Riggswolfe
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Reply #180 on: October 10, 2018, 11:40:28 PM

But this isn't an MMO, this is some sort of small-server Rust/Ark thing right?

Also I love how antiquated their "anti-griefing" system sounds. Noob player is shooting monster; Dickhead player runs through the bullet hail, taking minimal damage because he is not flagged. Dickhead player uses the maximum cooldown time to move to an appropriate distance, then murders Noob player with little consequence since Noob player technically shot first. swamp poop why so serious?

A few things to keep in mind. It's a huge map with something like 25 players max. And it has come out you can flip on a pacifist setting and opt-out of PVP entirely. Several of the Youtubers at the recent event spoke about it. Also, if you die you don't lose caps, armor or weapons you only lose "junk" so the victor is going to get things like the alarm clocks, lamps and teddy bears you hovered up but nothing else.

I have basically Ultima Online PTSD but I'm not terribly worried about the PVP in this game. If anything, I think the PVP hounds will be crying though that Hunter/Hunted Pip-boy PVP channel may pacify them.

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
Trippy
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Reply #181 on: October 11, 2018, 12:20:23 AM

Pacifist Mode means you can't damage other players (e.g. so you don't get flagged as PvP accidentally). You still will take damage from other people attacking you, though at a reduced level.

https://twitter.com/DCDeacon/status/1045418837171216384

Edit: get
« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 09:24:54 PM by Trippy »
HaemishM
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Reply #182 on: October 11, 2018, 10:18:40 AM

That sounds incredibly stupid.

eldaec
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Reply #183 on: October 11, 2018, 11:21:55 AM

I expect that idea is too stupid to survive - and pacifist mean will damage immunity before very long.

It isn't as dumb as outcasting, but it is very nearly as dumb as outcasting.

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Riggswolfe
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Reply #184 on: October 11, 2018, 02:51:04 PM

Pacifist Mode means you can't damage other players (e.g. so you don't flagged as PvP accidentally). You still will take damage from other people attacking you, though at a reduced level.

https://twitter.com/DCDeacon/status/1045418837171216384


That's not what the people from the event have been saying. Then again, they're mostly Youtubers and Game Journalists so they may have it wrong. Regardless, with only 24 players on a server I'm not worried it'll be a full on UO-style grief-fest. One common complaint I've heard is PVP is almost totally pointless because you don't get much out of it.

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
Trippy
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Reply #185 on: October 11, 2018, 03:28:33 PM

Regardless, with only 24 players on a server I'm not worried it'll be a full on UO-style grief-fest. One common complaint I've heard is PVP is almost totally pointless because you don't get much out of it.
As long as its possible to harass other players in some fashion people will still do it despite there being minimal rewards in-game. Cause people are assholes.

Khaldun
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Reply #186 on: October 11, 2018, 08:46:51 PM

I mean, JESUS FUCK, this is a long understood lesson.

1) Make it actually useful to kill people, then everyone but the nice people will swarm to kill people. (Ultima)
2) Make it not particularly useful in any way but allow it? The dickbags who mostly enjoy spoiling everyone else's fun will still do it.

I played on a Conan: Exiles PvE/PvP hybrid server where there was a guy who would log in every single damn night and his job was to find anyone who was just plain "hi, I got home and I'm building something" and kill the fuck out of them repeately. No gain, no value, just the pride of killing them.
Falconeer
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Reply #187 on: October 12, 2018, 03:18:06 AM

You have all been crying about the same stuff for six pages. Kind of entertaining.

Morat20
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Reply #188 on: October 12, 2018, 09:14:47 PM

Bounty coming from the wallet of the player?  What happens if the player can't cover it?

Clearly they have not done the slightest bit of research on MMOs.  At all.

Having a mule account to support a red account is damn near a requirement.
Yeah, getting around bounties is easy. Acquire bounty. Have buddy kill you for bounty. Get money back.

Listening to them talk about griefing is like going back in time to UO, where at least they had the excuse of not knowing any better. Everything old is new again, I guess.
schild
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Reply #189 on: October 12, 2018, 09:28:22 PM

i want people here to stop saying "they" without really digging into who "they" are

This is not Bethesda. This is BattleCry Studios in Austin. This is a studio most famous for having layoffs before releasing the game that actually had their name in it, Battlecry. This is a studio from the city that just won't fucking let the MMOG genre die. Austin is great for many things, but in video games it's barely a pinch hitter despite having more companies than

checks notes

basically anywhere.

I love Austin, but nothing about this game should surprise you in its reckless disregard for not learning from past sins.

Edit: Just to further make my point, the studio directors career is as follows -
Studio Director (Battlecry/Bethsoft Austin) -> Technical Director (EA SWTOR) -> Server Lead (SOE / SWG) -> Manager of Engineering (EA UO/UXO) -> Programmer (OSI / UO)

is anyone here still shocked by these errors? anybody? anybody at all? no? great.

« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 09:33:40 PM by schild »
Sky
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Reply #190 on: October 12, 2018, 09:59:42 PM

But dude THIS TIME IT COULD WORK

HaemishM
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Reply #191 on: October 12, 2018, 11:42:09 PM

Based on that resume, I'm surprised that guy isn't on Shroud of the Avatar.  why so serious?

Soulflame
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Reply #192 on: October 13, 2018, 09:18:36 AM

You don't even need a friend to kill you, just use your second account.
Threash
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Reply #193 on: October 13, 2018, 11:34:06 AM

If you are putting pvp in your game then it needs to be exclusively about pvp. Not just some bullshit checkmark you are including to appease the spergs.

I am the .00000001428%
calapine
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Reply #194 on: October 13, 2018, 01:56:45 PM

I don't have the heart to read 6 pages now.

So short: Good or Bad? Will you guys play it? Shall I get it?


Thank you!

Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic!
Trippy
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Reply #195 on: October 13, 2018, 02:11:04 PM

It sounds like there will be a group here that will play once there are private servers like how we have an f13 PvE Conan server.

The game itself sounds kind of meh so far. MP, minus the PvP stuff, doesn't seem to add that much to the game, and doesn't offset taking out all the NPCs.

IGN preview of the preview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87wo38fRAnY&t=68s
calapine
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Reply #196 on: October 13, 2018, 02:37:26 PM

It sounds like there will be a group here that will play once there are private servers like how we have an f13 PvE Conan server.

The game itself sounds kind of meh so far. MP, minus the PvP stuff, doesn't seem to add that much to the game, and doesn't offset taking out all the NPCs.

IGN preview of the preview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87wo38fRAnY&t=68s


Yap. Watching them. And I totally understand that it was a "dumb" question.

I am sort of struggling to form an opinion at the moment. Does it look to be a 24-player-servers survival game? Meeeeeeeh.

What I want is a"Fallout Online" MMORPG... Ohhhhh, I see.

Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic!
Zetor
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Reply #197 on: October 13, 2018, 03:33:25 PM


Hawkbit
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Reply #198 on: October 13, 2018, 05:18:13 PM

Parts of it look okay, none of it looks amazing. I'm going to bet waiting a year for the game to add content and stabilize will be well worth it. Added bonus would be buying later at a discount, too.

I'll play it at some point solo or with friends I know, but not at launch.
Kageru
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Reply #199 on: October 13, 2018, 07:58:29 PM


It will be fun watching automated game mechanics going up against human nature, not only in PvP but also in breaking any sort of progression. I haven't seen any reason to actually consider playing it though, and if I just wanted a shooter it's hard to imagine Bethseda's clunky mechanics being a positive motivation.

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calapine
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Reply #200 on: October 13, 2018, 08:44:38 PM

Parts of it look okay, none of it looks amazing. I'm going to bet waiting a year for the game to add content and stabilize will be well worth it. Added bonus would be buying later at a discount, too.

I'll play it at some point solo or with friends I know, but not at launch.

Blah blah, I said nothing.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 08:49:08 PM by calapine »

Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic!
Hawkbit
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Like a Klansman in the ghetto.


Reply #201 on: October 13, 2018, 08:47:20 PM

That statement is equal parts rude and fair. :)
calapine
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Reply #202 on: October 13, 2018, 08:51:03 PM

So edited because I am nice person actually, just drink gets me edgy. *hugs*

Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic!
rattran
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Reply #203 on: October 14, 2018, 07:45:50 AM

I preordered all the fallouts, and didn't regret it. This one I'm holding off on until more good info comes out. All the previews seem to be fluff.
Morat20
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Reply #204 on: October 14, 2018, 09:53:32 AM

I preordered all the fallouts, and didn't regret it. This one I'm holding off on until more good info comes out. All the previews seem to be fluff.
I got the bad vibes from the initial unveiling. Big Q&A, lovely video, and....a weird dislike of answering questions about mechanics. A whole bunch of simple, obvious questions -- ranging from "How do you handle PvP? Is it opt-out, opt-in, full PvP, what?" and "Is there questing? How does that work?" and it got evasive answers. And that went on for at least a week or two.

Evading questions generally means you don't think people will like the answers.
Sir T
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Reply #205 on: October 14, 2018, 12:13:16 PM

The other day I was in GW2 and there was this guy deliberatly letting NPCs chase him into the "safe" centre of a Labyrinth just so it would kill all the other players there. Not got any reason, he got no benefit, just to annoy people. And the amount of times I've seen people plont deployable Merchants and stuff onto of crafting stations just to block them from bieng used is insane. So ya, some people are dicks just to be dicks.

By the way, that guy had named his character "Angry Snowflake." I think he had issues  DRILLING AND MANLINESS

Sometimes irony is pretty ironic.
Trippy
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Reply #206 on: October 14, 2018, 12:54:07 PM

I preordered all the fallouts, and didn't regret it. This one I'm holding off on until more good info comes out. All the previews seem to be fluff.
I got the bad vibes from the initial unveiling. Big Q&A, lovely video, and....a weird dislike of answering questions about mechanics. A whole bunch of simple, obvious questions -- ranging from "How do you handle PvP? Is it opt-out, opt-in, full PvP, what?" and "Is there questing? How does that work?" and it got evasive answers. And that went on for at least a week or two.

Evading questions generally means you don't think people will like the answers.
To be fair back then they evading answering cause they themselves didn't know the answers -- i.e. they hadn't figured out those details yet.
HaemishM
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Reply #207 on: October 14, 2018, 01:13:35 PM

If true, that's why the questions are asked so vociferously. Those questions are vital questions because if they aren't considered in the design concept stage, you end up with ridiculous, unworkable bolt-on solutions to game-breaking issues.

Trippy
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Reply #208 on: October 14, 2018, 01:21:32 PM

It's a "service" game -- they'll figure it out as they go awesome, for real
Morat20
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Reply #209 on: October 14, 2018, 02:00:19 PM

To be fair back then they evading answering cause they themselves didn't know the answers -- i.e. they hadn't figured out those details yet.
This was back in June, for a game ready to go into Beta in October. These are core design choices, which would have been hammered out in the first stages of design.
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