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Author Topic: Marvel's Black Panther  (Read 30238 times)
Soln
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Reply #105 on: May 13, 2018, 10:37:20 PM

Finally saw this on Amazon.  

Good to maybe great.  Really enjoyed it.  Killmonger was terrific.  All the actors, production, script, pacing, not easy to predict... really good.
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Reply #106 on: September 09, 2018, 05:07:24 PM

This just popped up on Netflix so I watched it yesterday.

I have been pretty much avoiding the Marvel movies over the last few years because I am frankly have not found the last few I have seen to be all that appealing.

I was impressed with this one though. Good flick.

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01101010
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Reply #107 on: September 09, 2018, 06:40:32 PM

Same here... wife saw it on Netflix and decided to watch. I'm not a Marvel movie fan which she's not happy about. Still not a Marvel fan sadly. I like my villains a little more cerebral. But the cast and visuals were pretty amazing.

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Reply #108 on: September 17, 2018, 01:32:42 PM

I thought Killmonger was one of the better Marvel movie villains tbh.  Not that the bar is super high.

(insert picture of your favorite dumb Marvel villain here)

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Ironwood
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Reply #109 on: September 17, 2018, 03:23:01 PM

The only one I've even been remotely impressed by was Purple Man.

They really, really made that fucker scary.

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Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #110 on: September 17, 2018, 03:46:35 PM

I'm a big fan of vincent d onofrio's kingpin as well and wish they would allow him to be in a spiderman movie.

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Reply #111 on: September 17, 2018, 04:12:11 PM

The only one I've even been remotely impressed by was Purple Man.

They really, really made that fucker scary.

Infinity War should win an Oscar solely for the feat of making Purple Man scary rather than ridiculous.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
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Reply #112 on: September 17, 2018, 05:25:57 PM

I think he's talking about Kilgrave from Jessica Jones.

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Reply #113 on: September 17, 2018, 06:19:15 PM

Of course there's a Marvel villain whose literal actual name is Purple Man.

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Reply #114 on: September 17, 2018, 08:13:14 PM

Lol, who were you talking about?

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Reply #115 on: September 17, 2018, 08:25:37 PM

Thanos?

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Reply #116 on: September 17, 2018, 08:45:57 PM

Muffin Chin is certainly purple but yeah I'm definitely sure Ironwood was talking about Killgrave.

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Reply #117 on: September 17, 2018, 09:51:21 PM

Thanos?
Huh, I guess he is purplish.  For some reason I was remembering him as being more blue, but I guess not when I look back at movie screenshots.  I'll blame alcohol.

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Reply #118 on: September 18, 2018, 12:35:02 AM

Kilgrave was good, Kingpin was (still is?) good, and I also liked Cottonmouth.  Wish they wouldn't have killed him off.  Nobu was a good foil to Daredevil as well, because of his innate ninja-ness.

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Reply #119 on: September 18, 2018, 07:36:05 AM

Muffin Chin is certainly purple but yeah I'm definitely sure Ironwood was talking about Killgrave.

Yes, I was. 



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Reply #120 on: September 18, 2018, 08:45:43 AM

edit: wrong thread

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Reply #121 on: October 20, 2018, 03:40:16 AM

We discussed it in another thread but Batman did a good job as the bird man in Spider-man as well.

Finally watched this, the one thing that sat awkwardly was how much African American culture appeared to supplant African culture in a film about Africa which was in general working really hard on how it presented Africa and Africans.

Music especially stood out as not sounding at all African.

We don't have many Africans here and I have no idea if the consensus of actual Africans thought the same or if I am nuts.


« Last Edit: October 20, 2018, 03:42:21 AM by eldaec »

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Reply #122 on: October 20, 2018, 01:56:23 PM

The film uses an Afrofuturist aesthetic to represent African cultures, and Wakanda is pretty openly a kind of utopian pan-African vision, which is an idea that comes as much from the African diaspora as anywhere else. So there are visual elements that borrow from or develop out of a number of different African societies--I spotted buildings that were clearly riffs on the architecture of the Western Sahel, a few riffing on Great Zimbabwe and similar structures in southern Africa, etc. Fashions come from all over--there's some Sotho-looking outfits in the 'rural' scenes, etc. But in all cases, the visual designers are trying to extrapolate what those styles would look like in a technologically sophisticated and wealthy society rather than just represent them as 'frozen' quotations from the past. Imagine if you were trying to do a futuristic Paris and all you did was just plop existing buildings into it and then lit it up with some neon.

So I think you have to think about the music that way too--there's a difference between music *in* the film world and the soundtrack that we hear, for one (what film critics commonly call the difference between diegetic and extra-diegetic elements of a film--no one in the film Black Panther is 'hearing' the soundtrack within the setting of the film). But in both cases, they're really heavily African--particularly instruments and rhythms from Senegal and the Western Sahel and from South Africa. Remember that contemporary African music is a: different in different parts of the continent, Africa is not a country; b) is just as influenced by world and African-American genres and trends as anywhere else--there are active hip-hop and reggae scenes in South Africa, Tanzania, Kenya; soukous and hilife in West and Central Africa have influenced African-American music and vice-versa. I think the folks who did the music took the challenge to root it in African traditions, instruments, etc. pretty seriously.

What did you see as "African-American" in the film, aside from Killmonger?
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Reply #123 on: October 20, 2018, 03:18:25 PM

African rap is huge, and largely unknown in America.

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Reply #124 on: October 20, 2018, 08:05:36 PM

The only African rap I know is Die Antwoord (and that's South African with white people fronting it) and they are significantly different from African-American rap, though heavily influenced by it. I don't expect that African rap in various countries is that far different from Die Antwoord.

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Reply #125 on: October 20, 2018, 08:48:18 PM

Enjoy some M.anifest then, because he's awesome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S6_tx9TjSo

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Reply #126 on: October 20, 2018, 09:13:27 PM

 Thumbs up!

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Reply #127 on: October 21, 2018, 12:18:25 PM

Die Antwoord is actually really unusual. Rap and hip-hop is pretty common throughout sub-Saharan Africa, it's just that the groups are more local. Ghana, South Africa, Kenya, Tanzania, Senegal, and more all have a lot of acts that do rap in some form. There's even a Kenyan Catholic priest who goes by the name Sweet Paul who was disciplined by the church over the summer after intermingling his rap act into a service.
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Reply #128 on: October 21, 2018, 08:33:40 PM

I married into a Kenyan family. Nigerian music has a lot of influence there (both were British colonies, but Nigeria has a bigger scene).

My wider music tastes are alternative, but I can't object to the vibe of even the mainstream stuff from there.

Best I can do on the hip-hop front is Nigeria's Wizkid featuring Drake.

And this is pop music, but I just... fia fia fia

We don't have many Africans here and I have no idea if the consensus of actual Africans thought the same or if I am nuts.

Black Panther really annoyed my wife. Wakanda is supposed to be right next to Kenya in east Africa, and most of the characters had west African accents. She didn't like the movie as a whole either.

It gather from my in-laws that it was very popular in Kenya, but... there is no secret African superstate next door; they just have to continue trying to make their way.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2018, 08:50:43 PM by Tale »
Khaldun
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Reply #129 on: October 22, 2018, 06:13:23 AM

Yeah, the accent got a lot of attention all over sub-Saharan Africa, because it doesn't really sound like any African national/regional accent. The characters generally are speaking Xhosa when they speak a sub-Saharan language.

Not much one can do about the *location* of Wakanda: it's gotta be somewhere that it's not. Marvel sometimes put it closer to the Atlantic coast, near Gabon and the two Congos; the decision to firmly locate it up by Lake Turkana is more recent. (It's also where J.K. Rowling decided that the African "wizarding school" is.)  I think if I were going to try to come up with a hidden African country I might pick somewhere in the upper Volta, where the Mossi states were, but anywhere you do it, you're essentially taking a real place that has a real history and turning it into a fictional place. Like deciding that Oz is actually IN Kansas, off in the corner or something.
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Reply #130 on: October 22, 2018, 01:37:31 PM

Yeah, and if you try to make it just a part of that region with the same culture and language then you wreck the whole "African Atlantis that has hidden itself off from the rest of the continent for hundreds of years."

As for Utopian (not directed at you Khaldun, somebody else said it), well, most anyplace with a high standard of living looks Utopian from outside. They obviously have societal issues, not the least of which is adherence to outmoded traditions, and then there is the whole "lets hide instead of help defend the rest of Africa from colonial aggression" thing.

I honestly think Marvel did an amazingly good job, considering the restrictions they were working under. I was expecting to just have to suspend disbelief at Wakanda, but I ended up rather impressed.
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Reply #131 on: October 24, 2018, 02:30:04 AM

I saw this on an airplane a couple months ago, and my chief complaint was that it seemed a bit of a stretch that Killmonger was such a badass figther compared to Black Panther, where he didn't really earn it.  Maybe I was too tired and missed some details.  I also sort of thought that it was a bit over-pandering to the black community and came off a bit false, but then I remembered that I am not part of the black community and they can make their own judgements on such things.  Good enough for them, good enough for me.  Above average Marvel flick.

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Reply #132 on: October 24, 2018, 02:36:27 AM

Killmonger spent his entire life basically as a special forces/CIA assasine, going around the world murdering people.  He was also a psychopath obsessed with murder and killing, so you can say he had the mental focus to spend all of his waking hours concentrating on how best to fight/kill people that no normal sane person would.  Itís not really a stretch to say he would be such a badass fighter.

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Reply #133 on: October 24, 2018, 07:11:19 AM

Killmonger spent his entire life basically as a special forces/CIA assasine, going around the world murdering people.  He was also a psychopath obsessed with murder and killing, so you can say he had the mental focus to spend all of his waking hours concentrating on how best to fight/kill people that no normal sane person would.  Itís not really a stretch to say he would be such a badass fighter.

I agree and it didn't bug me much however I would have liked a "show, don't tell scene" of Kilmonger being really badass somewhere around the museum heist scene. I think they could have easily incorporated something there to show his abilities off rather than just having bilbo explain it.

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Reply #134 on: August 28, 2020, 09:55:45 PM

Today we lost Chadwick Boseman to colon cancer.  He had not spoken publicly about his diagnosis, but he'd been fighting it for four years.

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Fuck Cancer.

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
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Reply #135 on: August 28, 2020, 10:38:18 PM

Fuck Cancer. Fuck 2020. Fuck Everything.

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Reply #136 on: August 28, 2020, 11:22:21 PM

I'm watching this again all weekend.

Fuck this simulation.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
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Reply #137 on: August 28, 2020, 11:26:27 PM

Chadwick Boseman forever!
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Reply #138 on: September 14, 2020, 02:25:36 AM

At the risk of being gross I wonder if Chadwick's illness was known at Marvel. IMO odd decisions were made in Black Panther. The obvious one would be the destruction of the herbs (T'Challa and Killmonger would be the last to have BP's powers).

Less obvious is the usage of the villains. IMO the three "best" BP villains are all in this movie: Killmonger, M'Baku, and Klau. Four if you count "White Wolf" (who is Bucky in the movie; in the comics it's a totally different guy). I could see them not using White Wolf in the future (he's too similar to MCU Loki in terms of character, and pretty much has a BP suit so too close to MCU Killmonger), I just didn't get them using the first three in the first movie, and making M'Baku more of an anti-hero (tbf this was a great change in hindsight). Maybe everyone knew there more than likely wouldn't be a second BP so just put everything they could into this one.
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Reply #139 on: September 14, 2020, 09:56:31 AM

I'm sure they knew, but I'm also sure they just wanted to get through Endgame and then think about where all this goes next.

You can bring the herbs back pretty easily and you have the comics-friendly option of making Shuri into Black Panther (in fact, who better to find a way to make the herbs again).

As far as villains, yeah, BP in the comics does not have a deep bench. But considering how deeply meaningful they made Killmonger, who was always just a fourth-rate goofball in the comics, they could probably do some great stuff with relative throwaways.

For example, Moses Magnum has an origin that isn't usually dwelt on in his later comics appearances, but he was originally an Ethiopian who sided with the Italians when they invaded before World War II because he was fascinated with industrialized weaponry and then he became an unscruplous international arms dealer. He isn't really a dedicated Black Panther villain but he would be incredibly apt for a BP2, *especially* if Shuri became the Black Panther.

Kraven the Hunter is another obvious character to throw in with BP rather than Spider-Man. And if they get the rights, Namor is another, though he's harder to work if Wakanda isn't coastal, which it is not in the MCU.
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